שניים הפוך - פרק 57: מגישים חשבון

Two opposites, Shimon Breitkopf and Alter Greweise, head out for an ideological duel and argue about everything possible. >> Rabbi Shimon, you're a man of the cloth , a pillar of salt, I don't know—give us some good verse. >> There are very Jewish results; I’ll tell you, a bit of joy, a bit of joy for others—wait, start with a verse. " >> Vayehi." Everyone is equal to "Tov." >> Yes. >> How are they equal to "Tov"? Everyone asks, after all, she went through all the sufferings and all— >> So listen to the other podcast called " Koach LeShabbat," and you'll hear there , but in essence, the election results we are finding, I think, as Menachem Begin said, are good Jewish results. >> Yes, a good Jewish style. >> A good Jewish style. >> I— >> Why? Because everyone finds a place to take pride in; whoever wants to rejoice for others finds where to rejoice for others. >> Come on, stop, stop a moment—this " rejoicing for others" is a thing. >> It’s a thing, a big thing in Judaism and in this period. >> No, and it’s also very good. I don’t want to talk again—here we are heading out, I'm always trying with you, I come out sounding like a jerk time after time , but there is, yes, there is some issue here with Shas. >> No, I don’t really—I didn't find— >> No, God forbid, not joy, but— >> More, more the process. >> I’ll tell you, I’m not a hypocrite, I rejoice for others, not once, not twice . There is no joy like the joy for others, it's true. The human soul and human nature are stronger than us. >> I didn’t find in the— >> We are not—not everyone is a Rabbi to his flock. >> Exactly, but I didn't find in the program that joy for others regarding Shas, even though there is a bit, like, not— >> There is no "joy for others" for what happened, like what is happening. >> Yes, yes, yes, or— >> There’s some kind of move here that makes you understand— >> No, by the way, I’m saying it to my credit, I mean, if on election night people in Shas had stood up and said, " Gentlemen, we received 300,000 votes, we thank the Council of Torah Sages, we are grateful, we will draw conclusions," that— >> No, and right away they blame the Rabbi and this and that. >> Yes, and the percentage of voting for him and for him, and we were also missing 4,000 votes, the— That would have made the event dwindle, vanish, and fade away, but with Heavenly assistance, the Holy One, blessed be He , had mercy on us all; this bleak winter and the darkness and gloom— >> So He gave us a little, truly, ah, yes, yes, yes, yes. >> No, understand, I want to go back a moment—this story that you know, you promise yourself—both of us, I don’t want to reveal ages—We are both not young men. We both have experienced campaigns. >> Let’s say there are young people with us . Yes. >> And we both have experienced several election cycles, and we’ve both seen more extreme cases, and every time you tell yourself, "Listen, I’m old, this won’t work on me." Not the campaigns, not this; no one will manage to stress me out. No one will manage to make my hands shake. No one will really tell me that "Arabs are streaming to the polls. " >> And I won’t be in this, this tension, and everything is— >> Everything is fine. Well, I’m old already, what could happen? More of the same. >> Now, and it starts, step after step, and you notice, just like by the book. >> By the way, I always tell myself, " Write yourself a diary that will remind you that this is what happened, that will happen," write it down just to remember next time, and it doesn't help . >> No, no, in the morning, suddenly the Arabs start flocking. By the way, this time they really did flock there, yes, not just a little, yes. They had some issue with fuel, by the way, why did they drive? You know, the fuel is not a cheap story. >> It's not even—nobody even thought about it at all. >> No, so there's—that's not true, the ones who invented the fuel are the Haredim. I don't know if you're old enough, you know. >> To remember the celebration there was with Pisgat taxis and Romema taxis and taxis... >> I was outside, I was one of those who worked to keep and... >> The Sudanese, as mentioned. >> And that's it, that's it, you didn't have to, but there was an issue with the travel, there was always an issue. The issue of travel always sparked, uh... >> The approach to the Divine Presence, that matter, it's for...male, why Rashi says, the Gemara says. >> So it's like, in a way, it's like the side effect is bigger than the drug itself, so the travel was... >> So travel was always an issue among the Haredim too. >> So you say, now the morning arrives, 12 o'clock arrives, suddenly that's it, you can no longer concentrate, you're starting to get into it now. >> No, also there's nothing to do, and then you naturally enter into this endless rabbit hole of, "Wait, wait, what does this mean? Wait, now you're also becoming a mathematician at this stage. " So 77, is it in our favor or against us? You have no idea, no idea exactly. >> What is it even, what is "in our favor" ? >> If we crossed 95, there's that thing that tells you if we crossed 95, then either we're in big trouble or we're with great tidings, it doesn't matter, like everything...but certainly that what it...whatever it is, and when you cross 75, then there's also the...and then... >> There's the mandate coefficient. >> But it's all without, without, bad operator. >> Yes. >> That changes the whole, the whole picture completely, turns everything, the whole... >> Yes, now, a few more things, you know, this whole event with the small parties , I, regardless, you know, I had a thought, no, no, in the end, it converges, it returns to the same place : the right to be a Haredi Jew. >> Same thing with Jews. >> You say, and you know, in the end, things work more or less, and now there are no surprises either, no surprises anywhere. Everyone who will say, "We told you so," more or less, that all, you said these results, just, "We told you so," here, the breadth of the axis, everyone told you everything. >> Meaning, it doesn't matter what the results were, the next morning everyone would stand and say, "We told you so," no, it's not relevant, not the numbers, or the data, or the number of mandates, why what we told you? Because everyone says everything all the time, they talk for and against, and opposition and coalition, and a narrow government, and a minority government, and a big government, everyone says everything, and then they jump the... >> I, I think the relevant insight. >> I think that just, if we want to take something for life, it really, uh, says something about our selective memory. That is, we remember backwards, we don't exactly remember. That is, everyone is truly convinced that they said it because they had such a side, that is, each of us had a side that nothing will happen, and had a side that everything ... >> Everything turned over. >> And he had a side that, in short, one of the sides... >> He is convinced that he really said that . >> He is really convinced, and that's it. It also makes sense that he said that, he’s not an idiot. Now, I’ll go even further, I mean, two days before the elections, someone comes along and says "write down the results." >> Screen, yes. >> Write it down, don't write it down, then we'll sign it and see if you knew. Now I tell him, "Listen, I have nothing, not in my education, not in my life, that taught me this thing," that is, about, you know... >> It’s a casino for all intents and purposes, yeah. >> Yes, but even then, it's not—I mean, there's no wisdom here that leads you there; sometimes they just tell you... >> No, and even if someone really wrote down all the results for you. What does that mean? Like, what, you guessed? Maybe you guessed better, or maybe worse . For example, this wonderful event with the polls, you know, I think about it a lot. Actually, the human race hasn't matured by even two minutes in thousands of years. It always needs to know tomorrow. >> It must hold onto some certainty. The hardest thing for a person >> is the unknown. >> It’s the sheer unknown. And therefore, any certainty, even though he knows it's fake and even though he... >> So he goes to the shamans in the ancient world, he goes to sorcerers and whatever you want, and brings them up and performs rituals and all that. >> And here, at this stage, arrives this world where whoever has more confidence is usually also more stupid and more of an idiot, but the more he is full of confidence and talks to you with exclamation marks... >> And it works. >> And it works, it works, it works, it works, it works. >> It works because we really need it, because what we need at that moment... >> Because like you say, you knew on election night and you knew that the campaigns—I told him—and it works because it's human nature and you can't fight it. >> In the end, the human operating system ... >> The mechanism is very simple. >> It is very simple. I mean, we are people who rise from...and all that, and we have... >> And we latch onto any kind of certainty , any sliver of that. >> Also, this whole story—let's take the story with the modern Haredim, which is one of the big frauds; ah, they take people once every four years whose bellies are full like this, and give them a little pat on the belly. >> Like nice cats, because suddenly... >> There's nothing, and I, I mean, one needs to compliment Yaakov Asher or whoever it is, that they understand that this time... >> A bit stronger, the... >> Yes, yes, now nothing, and what I learn from this is that even someone who is not a modern Haredi... >> I can agree with you a bit on that because... In my eyes, the pat isn't the...it's the brand, I mean, how much it... >> You're right, the whole claim is why isn't there a pat? >> Exactly, and when you pat, so you say, although it's only a superficial pat and not a real pat, but you can't always just pat, it's also... >> It’s not pleasant, it’s... >> It’s not pleasant, it's chocolate in the end, you know, you can have too much, but anyway, after we already connected to the brand, if there was a great pain , it's the matter of Rabbi Miller. >> Mr. Ben-Haim. >> Yes. >> That’s basically like, what did we want , to have more? >> He is a Torah scholar who hasn't passed away, we already talked about that. >> No, we think his future is still ahead of him. >> Yes, that's certain, here he is eulogized by the gathered crowd and here we will eulogize him, God willing, ah ... >> There was something there, and he’s a fan of the podcast, so bringing him here —he would be very happy, and we would be very happy. It could be the majority. >> He claimed they are stealing, not ballots; that isn't far-fetched. Uh, again, as part of the ritual, they make ballots disappear. >> Yes, and they threatened the voters and such, right. Look, uh... >> Everything is true, like... >> Now we can joke as well; we are truly furthest from the next election cycle. I don't know when it will be. >> It could be in another, uh... >> Right, but on the eve of an election, one must talk about the sense of humor that has disappeared for people, in a ... >> Like, you know, people usually... >> Are angry. >> Angry, and in the process, they take things with such deadly seriousness, and like, you... >> In general, in general, I feel that the attention span for humor is getting shorter because everything has become very, very serious and everything is very, very dense. And again, the whole argument is about identity. You look at Tel Avivians—I’ll disclose my sins today , I have a bit of a weakness for these types. You know, in high-tech they aren't bad, in science they aren't bad, and suddenly you... >> By the way, you know why? Because they project some kind of certainty. They know what's good, like, that's how they project it. So that is exactly what people want to cling to. People want to cling to a feeling of... >> No, you see that people don't want to cling to that; they start talking political accounts. You rack your brain —listen, what I understand, what you understand that I don't understand, what is happening here? Why, why does everything connect for you? Why does it seem to you that extreme Arabs are nicer than extreme Jews? You...you can't understand now, and he shouts, and it's written, and it’s October 7th, you don't... >> Everything you say is used against you. >> No, but what you see him saying with full self-confidence—I told you, people like to connect to self-confidence. Therefore, what do they ask? Why does the Right not manage to truly take control of the country, even though numerically the battle was won long ago ? Because there is no certainty, there are no exclamation points. Every right-winger in the end—he has some little question mark at the end that is a bit...and the first to break that, by the way, was Yinon Magal, who truly arrived with an exclamation point. I'm not from his Hasidim, I'm a Litvak. >> But that is what I want to talk to you about now. The elections are already over, and some talk starts in the air: " We're in..." Oh, not from the Hasidim, there are matches [shidduchim]. A rumor starts to run, yes, it's not certain they married at all, they met, they talked, but they start talking about how this time the Haredim and the Left...and you notice some transparency , a Haredi internal posture, saying: " This time we are not with the baboons, this time we are with the..." >> By the way, that seems to me—it seems to me—that is Lithuanian. >> Yes, that is certainly Lithuanian; it turned out that Rabbi Grodnensky is connected to this from the opposite side . >> Yes, but that is a Lithuanian phenomenon , by the way, that the Lithuanians, the Lithuanians truly—if they go with the Left, in my opinion, their stature will truly be raised. >> Clearly, clearly. >> And like, this is... >> They, they actually belong. >> The elite connected, like, finally two ... >> The first Israel and the first Israel. >> Finally, one is in the arms of the other . The Sephardim and the Hasidim are not in the picture at all, in my opinion. >> Depends, depends on which Hasidim, yes. The Sephardim I can... >> There is a real rift, I also don't see it, even if, for example, for a head of a faction, in my opinion, perhaps inside . >> Also that. >> I don't see his public following him on this matter. >> And one must talk about the fact that this comes at a bad time for him now because he's in the middle of a "hold me back" move. >> Yes, and while doing so, he also needs to... >> While doing so, he also needs to hold them, so there's an issue of being held here. >> But if someone knows how to do it at the same time. >> Yes, if someone knows, yes. >> Rabbi Deri should be praised; I mean, many people look down on him, but... >> Not at all, by the way, whoever eulogizes him doesn't manage to understand the phenomenon and won't manage to understand anything. >> No, I don't know enough, I admit. >> No, it doesn't matter even if you don't know, you look at...he entered in '84 ...'88, let's say Gafni entered in '88. >> No, but you look at...for example...you look at a path of life. >> Deri was interrupted, the way they tried once. >> They tried and he returned to his studies. >> All those rushing to eulogize him, I would suggest to them... >> Also there, there is that same matter of the elections where he does the same trick and it works every time, even though you... >> This time you can't say it's so...but he didn't do it to the end, I think. >> A little bit... >> I think, I think it works, I think it works anyway for me. No, but the... don't leave, what was it, fatigue this time? But I think this fatigue, the results are stirring him in a way... >> That we will see him, also wanting to throw out the old ones and keep Rabbi Malul, the new serious ones. Meaning, that is... >> Although for Rabbi Malul, the title " Haker" really caught on with him. There aren't many people for whom the title " Haker" suits them more than the title " Haker". >> No, you are actually saying something here now that for him it's already much sharper. >> All his aspirations were that a day would come when he would be called and would boast of his "Haker-ness". >> Well, that is also, also Rabbi Yankel Tessler, my dear friend, he too, it's a sorrow, but we took that into account, I ... >> Rabbi Tessler, Rabbi Tessler can still, uh, in Norway, now begins the Norwegian [law] of Rabbi Goldknopf. >> Or here, I don't know how many Norwegians we have. >> Wait, now you also need to give predictions if we have repeat elections or not. >> Look, there's no doubt that for the Haredim, in the current constellation, repeat elections are best. >> Depends on which Haredi. >> First of all, the mood will be, again, the adrenaline, that's exactly the point , I really want to be...on adrenaline, you wake up the morning after, you know , it drags on for two days, thank God, here they are counting envelopes. >> Three days, yes. >> Yes. >> Which is also a natural phenomenon. >> There is high-tech here, there is everything here, but counting... >> And you see them, also with the pens, with the markers and... >> And then they come out and that's it, now what are you updating us on the way ? Discovered, what do I care if it's at 79%? If it's like that, it has no meaning, so why are you updating at all ? I'll tell you, listen, the most flourishing branch in the sector today is the "number men." >> Yes. >> Which has the founders 'tradition, which is Rabbi Abar and Rabbi Yostman and Rabbi Yehuda. >> Today it is Rabbi Grintzig. >> No, Rabbi Grintzig is already the new generation, and there are already others under Rabbi Grintzig. >> Generations upon generations have grown . >> You can see them in forecasts in WhatsApp groups; every synagogue even has a "numbers guy," that’s it. >> Look, I also served as the "numbers guy " for one night, yes, because I’m very into numbers, but. >> But when it comes to speaking, you still have to have the gift of gab. >> Now, you also have to say something; in the end, you’re like the person reading the Torah, you get the same data as the numbers guys. >> And you say them with a cantillation mark. >> And you say them, and you say, and you’re like. " >> If the trend continues," and more phrases, that's it, the trend, the trend —there are keywords here that are very important, because I remember working with Ramo, there was the term called " The Big Ballot Boxes," there was that. >> I remember the first night, that is to say, the first time that. >> We had three nights until Moshe Lion versus Barkat were counted. >> 2013, 2013. >> 2013, and then don't ask me why, it turned out we were on Barkat's side, that's how we understood the matter, and then it was like, at first we were neutral, but by and large, the matter was Barkat. >> And I remember throughout the night, listening and sitting, the Haredim, who obviously were on the side, ah, on the side of... >> Haredim, you can't... >> How much to be asked, yes, anyway. >> No, we officially—I have to say this just for the record—we were a blank slip . >> And in short, you hear the night, and you start to understand that Barkat, thank God, uh. >> Is on the horse. >> On the horse, and you hear there's some guy, and you also know he was—he's no longer alive—he was also in Barkat's headquarters, and then he—ah, sorry, he was in Lion's headquarters, and then he starts saying, "Listen, Lion's ballot boxes are in the north of the city." >> That's it, the "Big Ballot Boxes," there are. >> That's it, and then. >> Then they invented the concept "The Big Ballot Boxes." >> And then it starts to trickle down, the big ones and the small ones, and also the north—all the concepts that were created for it, they then accompany us throughout. >> Yes, exactly. >> Days and years, that is, it entered " Big Ballot Boxes" from now on. >> After all, there are no big or small [ boxes] in the country. >> Exactly. >> But it’s no longer relevant, the "Big Ballot Boxes" entered and became a concept, and you hear all the commentary ; in short, he keeps saying, "Wait, I'm telling you, Barkat has no chance," and then suddenly, you know, the moment happens where they realize the business is exactly the opposite, that same guy, even as I said all evening. >> As I said all evening. >> No, it was a flop, he didn't have a chance. >> There was no chance from the first moment, and I remember that then I understood the secret. >> The secret of commentary and how you should say it, but I wrote this week, and I think it's very interesting: there's a book called "Special Edition, " written by the journalist Vietzthum, and there he conducts research on what happens when the broadcast opens a " Special Edition." It happens to us on election night, but it also happens after a major attack, when some disaster happens, suddenly some October 7th, then the whole agenda breaks, and there's some theater. By the way, I must say honestly, I don't know what Vietzthum wrote, that usually when the studio opens, there's nothing to say, it takes some... >> Exactly what he says, they open the studio and... >> There are two hours where there is nothing to say. >> Two hours where there's nothing to say, and he says these are the holiest hours there are, because when people settle down, they don't need information at all ; they need psychological support, they need someone—essentially, it's also happening to them. >> The previous order has been shaken. >> We don't yet know what the next order will be, and we need, as you said earlier, someone to shout some kind of certainty. >> To cuddle in the bosom of Amnon Abramovitz. >> It doesn't—it doesn't matter in whose bosom, it doesn't matter, first of all to cuddle, people in times of— >> Hanan Crystal. >> People in times of distress don't like to be alone. >> True, by the way, and Hanan Crystal is a kind of voice for this hour. I think Crystal is just our generation, remember? >> I don't think so, no, I haven't listened to the radio in many years, but, uh— >> Me neither, but it's been a long time since I heard that name. >> Except for your Crystal Menta. >> Because it just seems to me that fewer people listen to Reshet Bet; that was back when I used to—they called it the " Light Wave." >> And Hanan Crystal was there several times a day, by the way, to bring political commentary, not reports, commentary; several times a day it was. >> Yes, anyway, so you think about that thing; I sat that same night, I sat on a line, an important line, Iche Gelbowitz's line, and essentially his mission as an avrech— >> So you're talking about election night. >> Election night, his mission is so that yeshiva students and avreichim won't consume radio, because you know, sometimes it opens a door and then you get addicted to the matter, so he brings the commentary, and I sat there. >> And getting addicted to that line is no problem? >> No, that—you're addicted already, it's an addiction that comes from home, I understand. >> Yes, that's what you hear. >> Who do you hear, in the studio or on the phone? On the phone, a studio-like phone . >> Are you—what are you sitting at home with headphones and broadcasting to the universe what I have to say? >> And you really see that there are people , and again, we're talking about the inability to go to sleep, inability, something inside the, inside the— That's me again, I'm inside it, unable to go to sleep. >> Yes, that's half of, in my opinion, most of the public. >> Now, even among Haredi Jews, I think I said this, I sat with a group of people who tried to understand Haredi politics ; a Haredi Jew, a Haredi child, is a child who understands that the election results have a direct impact on his life . >> Whether he gets the package—that's up to there—but let's go now, it's about whether his kid gets into school or not . >> By the way, furthermore, and I think I— I'll say something, I don't know if I'll phrase it correctly: Haredi politics is not just the package or the allocations or the, or even the draft, for that matter; it's the identity. >> It is the identity, it defines. And therefore, I have had a thesis for many years: that what causes—not what causes , but what magnifies and intensifies the phenomenon of discrimination and division within the Haredi public—are the political parties. Meaning, this division that exists between Litvaks, Sephardim, and Litvaks—Sefardim, mostly , by the way. That this is the most burning wound, that is the political story, for the sake of the matter. If there were a Shas party, or not even Shas, a "Shin" party for that matter, that would unite everyone—we would see, I don't know if on Day One, but over time, the tension and this would decrease. I agree with you, discrimination is definitely there. >> Yes, but it's clear that as you say, once you have those wall posters in Jerusalem, it’s just part of the scene, whether it's Shas or not Shas, or just G —you realize a child drew that, like, wow. >> By the way, I think it's a huge desecration of God's name that the most distinct identity camp of Jews who keep the Torah and commandments is "the religiousness." >> The religiousness. >> The religiousness is a desecration of God's name; if there were a party of modernists and a party of "frummers," you see, that would have more point, it's a much better division. >> It's a logical division, you say, " Listen, look, there are differences in the institutions, in this and that." >> He wants this kind of study, he wants that kind. >> He wants English, he doesn't want English, he wants an iPhone, he doesn't want an iPhone; you have a real, substantive division that justifies different political representation. That's the whole difference, that's the whole difference—the religiousness, that's [the] blank or something. >> Shas basically started, but Shas should have been established... >> It was established by Ashkenazim who wanted to stick it to other Ashkenazim. >> It's always like that, but Shas should have been established with an expiration date: "I am going to fight discrimination for 10 years, and then I'm closing this down because the goal was achieved." >> I loved that, for example—I must add a parenthesis—that's what Rabbi Miller said: "The moment I finish, I'm leaving ." >> Right, he doesn't want it anymore, yes. >> What's happening is that it went the other way, and like with Hasidism, where institutions often take over—meaning the means become the end—here too, the means , the political party, became the end. The institutions, this establishment, has already become an end in itself, and they forgot that the whole purpose for which Shas or the Haredi parties were founded was to improve things, to fight discrimination. So everywhere they tell you: "No, we'll amplify it, sharpen it, and turn it into this." I wrote about this, I think, 10 years ago. >> I remember the "political earthquake." >> It really angered those who were angered . >> You didn't just write it, you also tried to lead it, it must be said. >> No, that was after, that was after a few years, and it really angered them, and I think it angered them partly for that reason, because it would dismantle the mechanism, but the mechanism was established for a specific purpose. Which has been forgotten a bit along the way. >> Both sides, it turns out, have some addiction to the Haredi mechanism, yes, to our great sorrow. >> I think now, uh, all sides are approaching the possibility of this stage at all, because something happened this time—let's put it this way, you know, you don't have to be a great genius—but what people don't understand is that the Sephardim are essentially required historically to go through an internal clarification that Ashkenazim went through over 100 years, that is, two world wars. Meaning, we had time to fight with reformers, neologists, and maskedim, Bundists. >> From the Hatam Sofer, we fought until almost until the Hazon Ish. >> Until we formulated the understanding, also for many... >> What the boundaries of the area are and what do we do about this? Yes. Now we have formulated some kind of standing: "We really cannot be part of the traditionalists, even though we love them very much, worry about them—but some ability to differentiate." And I think that is happening now in Shas. Even if they don't want to, eight Abis could come along and say: "It doesn't matter." The traditionalists are beginning to realize that, in the end, this is a party, look at. Look at the MKs now; there isn't a single one who speaks the traditional language at all. It’s Shas, it’s all Litvish, not traditional—Rabbi Malchieli, the Rabbi. >> What do I ask? >> Rabbi Hazoli, just by the way, even Malkieli, they always wait. >> Rabbi Biton, Rabbi Deri, all of them, all the Rabbis. >> They are all Hebron yeshiva graduates, it’s like there’s no longer... >> Yes, they are doing. >> That’s why I say that this delusion that we are in such a year, and the business continues to run on the religious model —it might be that now the Haredim are converging into themselves, and if they are converging into themselves, there was always the claim, as you say. >> That Shas brings in votes as if there’s the big sting. >> We are selling, this brings in, for the benefit of the Haredi power, it's probably in the internet era and that's it. >> Yes, and there are no secrets, no secrets. >> Exactly. >> Speaking of which, there was a Hasidic group I know personally that spoke about whether there is a quiet instruction there. >> There is no quiet instruction today. >> There is no quiet instruction; it’s over , it’s over. >> The quieter the instruction, the more exactly it is. Meaning, if someone records at the edge of Dimona a message in some... >> Of Jakobski. >> Within a minute. >> Yes. >> The whole nation of Israel, and it will be broadcast and open the news programs . Meaning, this thought that there are secrets—there are no secrets. If a Rabbi sits in his room and speaks. >> He sits across from a Hasid and he records him, it’s already been recorded and broadcast and released. Meaning, the whole thing—who releases it? There is no such thing. Who releases it? What, there are no closed rooms today? It’s over. >> What you don't want to get out, don't say. >> It’s over, there are no closed rooms today, the term simply doesn't exist, and here we are reaching the annoying stage because we want plot developments and now it’s just dragging on with rumors and this, and I think that both of us... >> The public likes fast and quick sensations. >> What is the public? We are. >> I am saying, I. >> We are now, yes, the public is sitting. >> People are sitting, calling, and watching, and want to hear: "Okay, so what do you say? Where are we going? Right or Left?" >> By the way, do you think Left? I don’t know, I don’t know how to say. It’s like, someone who says they know—I don’t think there is anyone who knows. Meaning, all scenarios are being examined by everyone. I think the Haredim are going Left without blinking , yes. Meaning, if it depends on them and a constellation is created that allows for passing laws. >> A few years ago there was some...they made some leftist film: Why isn't the Left in power? That was the question. The answer is: Because you are not good . Not because there aren't enough people , simply because they aren't capable. That was convenient. And then a journalist sat with me, half philosopher . He asks me: Why don't you come with us ? Because your connection with us is much more natural, and so on. And I told him: Our connection with you can happen in two constellations: Either you will be as strong as you were at the founding of the state, in which case we simply won't have a choice. >> Or you will be weak. >> Or you will be so weak that I won't be afraid of you, because in the end, you know, you run away from all sorts of things, you have some appeals regarding the Knesset Speaker, you can't really go . And what is happening. >> Right, by the way, we are heading into a period of "give me Yavne and its sages. " We had a lot of thoughts, you see? No , the last four years—there was Rabbi Deri sitting in the cabinet, they took care of many needs, they took the Ministry of Health, this ministry, that ministry. All of this, it seems to me, is heading toward a period of retraction . Meaning, the Haredim really had to choose either "Yavne and its sages," or if you want to take part in leading the state then go ahead, go for it, go small —there is a small problem with Yavne and its sages. They also asked for a righteous Rabbi's seat, and they also asked for the rule of Rabban Gamliel the Nasi, and all that, uh... >> In Yavne and its sages. >> Yes, in Yavne and its sages; the problem today is that Yavne has already spread across all of the Land of Israel, thank God, and now you are asking for Yavne and Hatzor and Dimona and Haifa and Rechasim. >> No, let me tell you. >> And it's not certain that you can still speak in terms of "Yavne and its sages. " Yavne and its sages said, "Leave me to my corner, whoever isn't there doesn't interest me," but you insist on including everyone who isn't exactly like that into Yavne. >> No, on that, on that I disagree with you ; I think you cannot explicitly state " I don't care about those outside." >> No, I don't...it's not that I don't care , it's that it's not my responsibility. I need to take care of Torah scholars and the arrangements for yeshiva students. Whoever isn't studying, let the state see how to deal with him as it deals with everyone else—that is not my responsibility. I, as a Haredi party representing the world of Torah, take care of the world of Torah. I think we are heading there with the understanding that we are going into a period of convergence, in terms of positions, involvement, in that too—yes, a bit, that. >> So you are saying we should have voted for Rabbi Miller. >> How did you understand all that? >> Because Rabbi Miller said that he, he will not give a... >> He won't give, and that is why Rabbi Miller got 10,000 votes, because the public, the public is smart, the public is smart. >> I think that... With great sorrow and deep grief, it must be said: the public is not stupid. >> Yes, yes, the public. >> Meaning, we would want the public to be stupid, but it is not. >> The public is smart, and the public understands that we, as you say, because it's no longer just Yavne, but Yavne and Hatzor and Jerusalem and Bnei Brak and so on and so on and so on. So decide, or you...if you want to really take part, take the "all-in," everything included, expenses and income. Do you want Yavne and its sages? Let there be Yavne and its sages. And we are facing this decision. In my estimation, like you said...if they go with the Left, then surely it will go. >> But that, that is confusing, you know, I have good friends, Religious Zionists, you know, in their logic the world is very, very orderly, and they were really furious at us, with great fury, and seeing what is happening to them now, you know, it's like we... >> Also for themselves, for everyone, by the way, yes. >> No, that’s Nimtzov, Chavi, Danisker; I mean, these poor people, they wanted, they put themselves, their children inside the tanks, and in the end, it turns out they are hated 800 times more . Goldknopf, the scarf, I mean in the end, in the end, nothing helped, that which What do you call it, entire divisions, a >> Enlist and die and everything, and in the end >> Entire divisions were burned, I don't know what that teaches >> I don't know what that teaches >> So what, you're just bringing some thought here? >> I, I already don't know what it teaches , what it teaches Well, say, what does it teach? No, look , I think the "Mizrachi" types are more frightening to them because they have some kind of... >> No, I think the "Mizrachi" types don't talk about it and their wisdom >> And exactly, they want to change everything, they want, they want, really , they >> They are even talking about Tel Aviv >> They say everything, we want expenditures and revenues, we want to take everything and we want to do it our way and it's really like >> It’s scary >> Seems like to you too, a little >> Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, you know, I see a little of the, like, the things they do there in Judea and Samaria, in the farms , this doesn't make one want to think that their brothers are...I don't know >> Look, the Haredim in the world never talked about a Jewish state, a Halachic state, it's like it's not on the agenda of the, not of the Haredi parties, really, because from the Chatam Sofer we learned, you spoke about history, don't go too high up >> But again, the Chatam Sofer is in another space. Once you have a quarter of the first graders, then you already have to ask yourself who is the pharmacist for the quarter of first graders who are already living? It's not some imagination that one day they will come, they are here, they are here, and then you have to answer yourself in Yavne, where do we bring pharmacists from if you rely on >> From the Triangle, it's not far, it's not far from Qalansawe >> That's it, that in Qalansawe they also come, they don't just poke, they sometimes also give another little something like that. >> That's the price. What can you do? You can't, you can't eat everything. >> Wait, now I want to leave all that for a moment and try to talk about our crowd. Now, basically, as we said, the winter semester has begun. I think the winter semester is only beginning now. I don't know if this is after in practice we will succeed, we will already manage to go with the Left, but I think there is some news, at least for the young guys who >> Business, we are rolling >> The time here, ah, don't worry about Rabbi Goldknopf, I'm with him and we are >> A single-member faction >> A single-member faction, but a respectable one >> But, but the single is single >> Yes >> I can reassure you, listen, I am requesting today on the wave, thank God , also four mandates, also leading the business, also everyone, it's clear to everyone, like, now, well >> It’s clear to everyone finally, but how did we start? >> Very few >> Very few, we started with Shas at all, this >> We sent some in the beginning at all >> How many guys to do the Sh... >> And after that we opened on our own some two, and after that they trampled us for years, and we were in the lectures of Rabbi Shach, and I sat with the Rabbi, Wolf, Rabrovn, and you know? It really takes you back to those years. And after Rabbi Shach, you know, there is suddenly a longing. I told you this, and I’m already signing off on it for almost the second episode where I say: one must here, one must here, even though one needs to say. >> He’s putting in the work. >> Yes, yes, Rav Dov. >> There’s no, it's like, no more, listen, in these elections there really was a feeling. >> There was a feeling. >> Yes, I remember when it started I was sure that the Lithuanianism was going to strike a real blow here. >> Yes, but um, listen, a 96-year-old Jew. >> It’s incomprehensible, it’s incomprehensible. >> He has the whole Torah, and you saw a battle for his life, a battle for his life. >> What words, with the strength I have and the strength I don’t have, it suddenly was such a moment. >> It was impossible to withstand that, even Laitner himself, I think, in the end... >> I also think so, I also think so. >> Because it really was impossible to withstand it. >> Really, at the polling stations there in Beit Shemesh, like, you suddenly say wait, wait, wait, a 96-year-old Jew. >> Forget the 96-year-old Jew, I didn't come to fight with Rav Dov. >> Exactly, and it turned into a fight with Rav Landau. >> Yes, that’s what happened here in the end, meaning we basically came to fight with Goldknopf, that's how the first videos started. >> Yes, and that’s legitimate, you know Louis Vuitton, how he said, "What is Louis Vuitton?" he says, "I haven't heard of him at all." >> No, he’s right by the way, I’m sure he didn’t hear, that’s Daskal’s. >> Who, what all of a sudden, who needs a scarf from Italy? >> And the bags, why do you need them? >> Alright, Daskal, not bags, so you buy bags separately, you say. >> Yes, but what, who needs it? >> Yeah. >> And slowly you suddenly see that they were dragged into it, and it happens many times to people without noticing, they simply got dragged into a fight with the grandfather. >> And then it was over, you understood, one could have already expected it if one knows how to read the public’s mood . >> I still feel that this "expecting" is hindsight wisdom. >> True, I, I agree. >> Meaning, I had a moment that... >> By the way, it’s clear that if Rav Dov hadn’t worked the way he worked. >> Something would have happened here. >> Something dramatic would have happened, in my opinion, even. >> Also both sides, also the black color, and also that... >> It would have happened, it would have happened. >> Because the black color was very, very intuitive and I was afraid it wouldn't help there, and then it turns out that if there’s no giant that stands up to his beard... >> He fought for his life, by the way in Shas, there wasn't someone fighting for his life, there was no father of the house. >> A little, Rabbi Yitzhak. >> Rabbi Yitzhak, "You cannot erase four years in a month," there’s no such thing , the public isn't like that, you can't erase four years in a month. But that's not the war, even Rabbi Yitzhak who worked very hard, it’s not the fight that you saw Rav Dov, you saw him fighting for his life, you really saw it , you know, like... >> And you can't stand against this plea, or this oath, or this call, or this, there is no end to a Haredi Jew, not that I thought for one moment otherwise , but you know, there were accounts here in this system, for some reason, suddenly the cry of the Vizhnitzer Rebbe is more Jewish that... >> True, that also... >> May God send him a complete recovery and such, but you hear him finished and choked up and he says, "If I had the strength, I would be walking the streets now and shouting," and it's quiet, you know, and there is a lot, a lot of cynicism, and you notice, by the way, it’s a great teaching of merit on the whole concept, the term "Haredi cynicism ," it can be melted in a second. >> Right. >> One second. >> Even, even the biggest cynics, I mean, those who already... >> You don't believe it's going to work on you, I mean, you invented, I invented the cynical talk, I, I... >> By the way, I'm aware of it, I mean, I'm not surprised it works on me, and I'm happy it works on me. >> Yes, yes. >> I'm happy it works on me, because I'm telling you—I didn't have a side to choose anyway. You know, my mother, may she rest in peace, it was part of her soul, like, you know, it wasn't even a thought, there couldn't be a thought of doubt. 7:00 AM on election day she would call: "Child!" There was no, there was nothing to it, it was really in her soul . But then I'm telling you, I don't play the game of doubts or dilemmas, like, everyone knows the side. Early voting, you know, it’s not—don't wait for early voting, it annoys me. Well, we have to talk about that, yes. >> I agree, it annoys me too, it’s annoying , I can't help it, by the way. >> I really liked one of the pieces of news , I think it reached the public, this Rabbi Goldin—a minute before voting. >> That he announces in advance, Rabbi Goldin, yes. >> By way of announcements, why is he waiting? >> He didn't publish his schedule, say from 7:00 to 11:00, he motivates them to go down and vote. >> But just, what do you know? I moved to the ballot box, and this time I'm only about the action. And then I look—you see some people standing there at a table outside the polling station, and you say to yourself : "Maybe it's time to rethink this?" Like, what's the thought that when walking past there, I might change my vote because I saw them there? Could be , I don't know. Like I said a few times in the booth of, um, you know, a little atonement. >> Yes. >> With Yad L'Achim and the ransom for the soul. >> And that, and that feels good. >> It's a bit, I always, when I enter the polling station, it reminds me of the Mikvah before Yom Kippur, a ransom for the soul, a ransom for the soul, and you feel the family pressure, so you have ... >> We are, we are in places where everyone —I don't know where you vote. >> I voted in Ramat Sharett, so it's very interesting, I always voted at home and I don't know why they moved me to Ramat Sharett, and there was Noam, by the way , something very strange with Noam because the number of activists I counted was 25,000, I personally. >> They had more activists than votes, I think they were also afraid of Rabbi Landau, that seems to me the deeper story. >> That, by the way, is a better excuse than all the other excuses. >> Yes, yes. >> And they really stood there, Noam, they did the work, it's a pity, you know, right at the square, early morning, already after prayers, you know, you can't ignore them, you know, there's something there with them, you see them working with all the earnestness, and you say, "Well, maybe you should wear nicer clothes and start looking professional, what are these sneakers and..." >> And those fleece jackets. >> Why, why are socks a product... >> That isn't consumed enough? >> You're already Haredi, you have all the downsides with this, you know. >> Wait, yes, look. >> Stuffing the pants inside the sock, that's what, that's exactly it, after all you have a sock and we all know which. >> They don't have socks, that's the problem, they walk around in sandals without socks, so it's possible without . >> You can't stuff it in, technically there might be a problem here. >> I don't know, you see them standing like that and you say, you see sometimes you see, you see faces that aren't in the, of. >> By the way, are they really, you look, by the way we are always exposed to, in . >> Yes, yes. >> You see, no, it's really impossible to pay attention alone, and I don't know, we need to give forecasts for the near future, right and left, I saw earlier. >> The truth is, if I have to bet, more elections. >> That's it, earlier I saw Rabbi Goldknopf saying he doesn't want to talk much about this, and Rabbi Deri wants to. >> Still keeping to himself. >> Do you have a prediction, will he leave or not? >> Who, Rabbi Deri? What, no way, what no way, even if it was terrible, I mean he really wanted to leave, no. >> But the holy call of the Moetzet. >> Plus the pressure from the public, plus the understanding that there is no one to replace him, plus this, together, taking the whole package, we, with God's help. >> We don't abandon, we don't abandon. >> We will be with him for many, many more years. >> Now I want to retire from the story of this thing, unless the public pressures . >> Yes, so we invite calls and also letters . >> I have my assistants, and assistants, however you want, send us letters and faxes as you remember until today, we read. >> There I want to stay, I don't know exactly what, but. >> I keep the, the, and I'm here and I'm staying here to give. >> You know, sometimes I, I look at how much I run to ask them, they say it's fine, but it's this electoral threshold thing. >> It can be overcome, it can be overcome, tell your friends that there are live things here, that things are happening, and that it's. >> And in the meantime, hang in there, winter has arrived, the melancholy is taking over a bit, hang in there, you are catching us probably in the last episode that, I'm not yet congested, we have an issue with that, right? >> Yes, yes, yes, I, all winter, all winter I. >> Yes, you're almost there, so I'm just updating you, next time they'll hear you with a stuffy nose and all that. >> With God's help, hang in there, we are with you. >> You're finished, you're done, ah, important verses you have, add. >> Dear things we said, good news, all the best, good night, healthy winter. >> You've been listening to "Two Opposite" from Mishpacha Podcast. I'm Shimon Breitkopf, sitting across from me is Grois. We'll thank content editor Tehila Siton, production manager Ella Goldstein, video editors Avremi Vizel, Daniel Levin, and Ayala Vilo. All our series and episodes are waiting for you on the Mishpacha website, in all podcast apps, and on the phone line 077-20202, extension 52. See you in the next episodes.