Dr. Akiva Perlman - Managing Anxiety (Zoom)

Um, so I really wanted to thank you Rabbi Rotenberg uh for inviting me here um and also to see all the faces to be honest to even before we got started to see the faces of family, of friends, of community members um is to me it's healing. Um, Rabbi when Rabbi Rotenberg reached out to me I believe it was on Thursday to ask if I would, you know, speak about this. Um, what he didn't know at the time and I did share with him is that I was having my own little crisis. Um, I woke up Thursday morning an anxious wreck. Um, and I know we're supposed to be put together and everything's supposed to be collected especially as a professional, especially if you're married also to a professional in the field of mental health. Um, what he didn't know is that I was I was really out of sorts. It was one of those days um where I woke up with fear. I was completely activated and it took me some time, probably the entire day to to sort of settle down. And when I was thinking about um what what to say I thought the best message I could share was just that. The message of we're all in this. There's no one in this situation who's better off than the next. Um, we're all in a position of powerlessness. We're all in the hands of Hashem. Um, and we need to find a way to band together in that space. Um, and so we need to know, we need to understand the rules of anxiety and certainly the rules of anxiety during wartime, which I really would consider this today. It's a time where we're all in active state of threat and it's a silent you know, a silent killer um and literally a half hour ago um I made the mistake again of looking online and looking at the news and looking at what's happening in New York, especially in Queens. And they're running out of beds and they're running out of ventilators, and there it goes again, my anxiety through the roof. Um and then you need to bring yourself back down, and I think most of us do this on on a fairly regular basis, maybe 10, 20, 30, 40 times a day, um where we're cycling through this these waves, these waves that come at us as intensely as they possibly can, and then we ground ourselves, remind ourselves of who we are, and who our loved ones are, and what our responsibility is in this moment to ourselves, our family, to the broader community and the world. What are we supposed to do? But we're cycling through that, and and if there's anything that we need to do is permit ourselves to do that. And say it's okay. This is a part of what happens when you're in a time of crisis, when you're in a time of war. And there isn't necessarily like a better way of doing it. Um there is managing it and being okay and staying connected through it. So an opportunity like this, um and I'd love at the end even if we could get together again, you know, without any slides on the screen, even to look at one another and see each other and see, you know, smiling faces and people who are still here with us. Um and and people who are taking the time and the strength to say, "Okay, let us let us band together and be a community the way we know how to." Um I think it's just a very healing moment, and to share that with you is is very special. So I thank you for that. So one thing we need to know is that this is a brutal moment, and there's no other way to call it. Our homes are not going to be the same. Our relationships aren't going to be the same. Um we're we're frustrated, we're scared, we're battling our own illnesses in the moment. And our anxiety is through the roof. Our sense of self seems to have gotten lost a little bit, but one thing we need to remind ourselves is that our essence remains the same. The circumstances, the rules have shifted, but who we are as people, um what we know ourselves to be, to be kind, to be thoughtful, to be loving, to be hardworking and diligent, that really remains the same. Um and and if we can benefit from anything this evening, it's going to be to remind ourselves of that one point. Um we're going to battle through this and we're going to have these waves of emotions and fear and relief and at times we'll be grounded and other times scattered. But there's we need to have permission to exist. We need to say it's okay. So if there's any a lesson number one for the evening is we all collectively and individually need to roll with the punches. Grant ourselves permission to exist, not to engage them too seriously, not to focus on them and spend too much time with them. Permit them. Permit them to exist because they too will pass. There's a a famous line that they say in the world of 12 steps in recovery from any form of addiction, they say feelings aren't facts. Feelings are things that we experience, um but they're not real. Um they tell us something about ourselves, but they also pass along with time. So we need to grant ourselves permission just to be and to roll with the punches uh and not take ourselves and the feelings that we're having too seriously because the more we spend time with them, the more we delve into them, uh the more they're going to disrupt us. Um so I want to share a a statement. I was reviewing reviewing a book that I had read a while ago on anxiety by a a really special man named Rollo May. Rollo May was an existential psychologist. Um and I'll just read it and then I'll paraphrase a bit. But he wrote a book in The Meaning of Anxiety and he's trying to give like a a different point of view on what anxiety is and how it affects us. And he says, "Creating, actualizing one's possibilities always involves negative as well as positive aspects. It always involves destroying the status quo, destroying old patterns within oneself, progressively destroying what is one clung to from childhood on, and creating new and original forms and ways of living. If one does not do this, one is refusing to grow, refusing to avail himself of his possibilities. One is shirking his responsibility to himself. And just to paraphrase, he says growth and development and discovering ourselves and finding our own voice requires passing through a period of anxiety. There's a period of anxiety that represents the evolution of self, the discovery of self, and it's a necessary part of our own development. It's a necessary part of of our ability to see ourselves and to grow and to become more wholesome, more connected, more grounded, more loving and capable human beings. But in order to do that, we need to go through anxiety. Uh when you think about uh an example of a child becoming an adult, there's a period of time that like in between stage, what we call Margaret Mahler calls separation-individuation, where you need to let go of the comfort and the love and the security of your parents and sort of venture out into the world alone. And that's a very anxious process. But the hope is at the end of that anxious process is that you then arrive in adulthood as a as a person who is comfortable, a person who is um satiated and satisfied as a human being. So anxiety, however fearful we are of it, is also completely necessary. And I'm speaking about the necessity We'll speak about other necessities a little later on this evening. But right now I'm speaking about the necessity of growth and self-discovery and self-actualization. Now right now we can't anticipate what that's going to look like. We can't envision how are we going to grow from this. But because it's a state of anxiety, because it's a time of change and flux, then inevitably it's going to improve our way of being one way or another in the future when God willing this ends and it should end today, but God willing it ends sooner rather than later. And there's so many examples of our lives that when we're in the moment all we could feel and experience in that space is sheer fear and anxiety and we're overwhelmed. Yet upon reflection later on in our lives, we could look back at that look back at that period and realize that it was necessary. Examples like uh getting married, having a child, um graduating uh an intensive program. Every one of these things are just small examples of anxiety being necessary for shift and change and growth. I once had a client and and I'm always surprised uh by the resilience of people by the resilience of all of us even tonight. But I had this one man I worked with that he went through hell and back many many times over. I hadn't met too many people who suffered the way he did. Because of his struggles in life, he lost his family. He lost He lost his spouse. He lost his children in terms of his emotional connection. He lost his job. He was completely self-destructive. And that was years and years and years of suffering. And then at the end of that experience after he sort of found himself and collected his his overall being and his sense of self, he was able to say, "I would do it all over again." That was completely necessary. I needed to go through that in order to discover myself. And if there was ever a moment while he was going through that pain where we were to ask him, like, "Are you doing okay? Do you see this as being necessary?" The answer would be a resounding no. Absolutely not. This is painful and if you have a way for me to escape this, please tell it to me so I can move on. Uh but that wasn't his experience later on and I hope I hope that all of us have the opportunity sometime very soon to look at this anxious moment and say it was something that taught us something about ourselves. It taught us that we're maybe kinder than we thought we were or that we're capable of being more present in the face of a a a moment that seems really tragic and is really tragic. Um so we need to hold hold on to that idea as tightly as we can. That anxiety is necessary. A state of flux is necessary. Um and it and ultimately it's going to teach us. So if there's any way throughout this journey that you're able to discover something new in yourself, see that as as what they call a kiss from Hashem, a little kiss, a little reminder that you're that you're receiving a message that here is something you're learning something. You're being taught something about who you are as a human being. And let's lean into that. When we talk about leaning in, there are different models in in how we kind of look at anxiety um and how we face it. And I think most of us when we think about anxiety, we automatically get into a defensive posture. We start like protecting ourselves, putting our hands up, saying, "Please, just stop. Stop with the unknown. Stop with the uncertainty." Um and what we're doing in that process is shielding ourselves from the anxiety altogether. We're saying, "This is not something we want to deal with." Um and we're not giving it a language. We're not giving it the opportunity to to teach us anything. Um and one thing I want to speak about, which is a bit counterintuitive, but hopefully it's a part of the journey of making this a little bit more meaningful, is about leaning in. Leaning into the anxiety. Um instead of running from it, instead of entering into a defensive posture, attempting to communicate with it. Um moments like this are impossible to run from. We could protect ourselves and we will. And we're doing everything we possibly can and it gives us a sense of power and control over a situation that's largely out of our control. But if we lean into something and we start asking it why what are we afraid of? What's the language of that fear? What are we worried about ultimately? What matters most to us in this world? Then we have a language that we could start facing it with. Um we could start communicating not only to ourselves about it, but to the people in our lives who are supporting us. Instead of shutting down as a result of the fear, we could start saying I'm really terrified of what this means. I'm afraid of what this means for us financially. I'm afraid of what this means for us emotionally. Um what does this mean for our mortgage payment? What does this mean for our weight because we're eating everything that we could possibly find. Um what does this mean? And it gives us a form of language. Um so when you lean into something and you ask it to tell you um what you're concerned about, it'll uncover something. It makes it accessible and now gives you a language and something to look at. Anxiety, we all experience it. It's the most common form of distress, certainly in America and as well as the world. It's the most common form of what you call mental illness, um although there's nothing about what anyone is experiencing right now that is even remotely ill. It is normal. It is um It is it's accessible and it's something that we need to to pay attention to and not run from. Um but it's something that we all have. Everyone here experiences anxiety and anxiety is coming from some place. We have deeply seated fears that we've been living with for most of us most of our lives. Um and fears that we generally run from and we don't give a language to and we we can't contain and we can't comfort or soothe because we're spending all our time protecting ourselves from it as opposed to leaning in and getting a language and communicating with ourselves as well as with our loved ones. So first and foremost, we have to start developing a language of what we're afraid of. What are we ultimately concerned about? And then using that language to communicate with our loved ones and say this is what I'm afraid of. And if imagine the difference, play out these two scenarios of a person who's fearful and it's just in a state of chaos. Um and the only thing that they share with their loved one is chaos. Is you know, they're screaming, they're shouting, they're not grounded, which is totally okay by the way. I'm not I certainly wouldn't judge anyone because I'm doing the same thing when I sort of lose my sense of self for those moments. But imagine that scenario versus the other where a person's leaning in getting a language and saying, you know, I'm really fearful in this moment. Um there's something that I'm really afraid of and you permit the other to care for you. You permit them to comfort you, sometimes to hold you, to reassure you with words, to reassure you with other affirmations. Um and that that permits us to get through this and grow in the process. It's not just about surviving. It's about improving our capacity to connect with others and develop our language of our emotional self, of who we are as people. Um I know this is really primarily about us, the adults who are here. Um although I did see Rabbi Ruttenberg's son. I guess he's an adult, too. But it was really nice to see him. Rabbi Ruttenberg, that's something to be like super proud of. Your son showing up. Um wonderful young man. Uh but I wanted to speak a little bit about children um because I think most of us are in a position of of worrying about them and caring for them. Um and and I just want to spend a little bit of time on their language and what we could do for them in this very tenuous space. So, first and foremost, not all children respond to stress in the same way. And if there's there's one idea with children and their communication um in a time like this is that you're not going to get words out of them. They're very often um going to express themselves through action much more than they're going to express themselves through words. And every once in a while you have that kid who is somewhat parentified, who has the ability to communicate on the wavelengths of adults. But by and large, um they're going to communicate in other ways. A great example that my my uh my youngest daughter, her first communication with me was completely nonverbal. It was completely action-oriented. Um where I guess I was on my phone too much. That's a different talk for a different time. Um which that we all are at this point. Um but we're using it to cope. It's not a terrible thing. Let's forgive ourselves for that as well. Work on it and forgive ourselves. But I was on my phone too much, not in a time of crisis, just in a time of life. And my daughter, before she was capable of speaking, um she walked over to me, took the phone out of my hand, and walked over to the bath, which was filled with water, and just dropped my phone in it. Um and that was her beautiful way of telling me, like, you know, Abba, get your act together, pay attention to me. I matter more than whatever's going on in your life right now. And she was completely right. Um it was one of those beautiful moments that obviously I'm worried about my phone, but that beautiful moment of like my child's really communicating with me. And yes, it's painful, and yes, it's stressful, and do I have rice in the house to, you know, help me keep my phone intact. Um but having a moment like that where your your child truly communicates with you without saying a single word, they're just letting you know, like, this is how I feel. So, and and I've been running these past the these past few days trying to engage adolescents in communicating, in expressing emotionally, um how they're responding to this. Um and tried so many different types of activities. Um and to be honest, most of them have failed because they're all about communicating on an adult language and I'm not in a position to sit in a room with kids and toys and puppets where they could express themselves in a nonverbal way. I'm doing like through Zoom where all you could really do is talk to another person. So what you're looking for in your children is not so much not so much them actually telling you that they're in distress but for them to communicate in another way, in a nonverbal way. And if you look at this chart, they're all nonverbal expressions of some form of anxiety like an excessive crying or irrita- irritation. Returning to behaviors that are old that they had gotten rid of, for example, bed-wetting, sucking a thumb, things of that nature where they're returning to a place that was more comfortable for them. Worry or sadness that is expressed in other ways not necessarily connected to this. Unhealthy eating or sleeping habits, crying. Um and unable to to eat or sleep. Um so kids and let's pay attention to that. Let's pay attention to the fact that they're going to introduce things to us that are not through words but through actions. And how do we respond? And this again just briefly looking at some of our responses. We respond to kids um at a level and in a level of engagement where they're at. Um again, this is not about our desire to quench our own fears and letting them know that everything is okay in our own way. It's explaining it to them on their level and explaining it to them on their level and creating an environment that's comfortable for them is a lot more is much more than just just words. It's about structure, it's about positivity, it's about creating an environment where they feel like they're engaged. Um they're they're limiting consumption of all the worrying type behaviors. Uh they're not getting too much information. Um and I know it's a hard thing to do because all we're doing, there's not a single conversation I've had in the last 2 weeks that is not completely saturated in discussion about this virus and what it's doing to all of us and how it's affecting us. And our kids are listening on all of that. And I'm not saying just stop talking. Um certainly around them, but I'm saying be mindful of the fact that when we're bringing all those fears to that environment, um then they're going to absorb absorb a lot of it. Um and again, they're not going to let you know, they're not going to say, "Please stop talking about it." Although I did, one of my daughters actually said, "Could we please have a day where there's no talk about coronavirus?" Um and we we lied and said, "Yeah, sure." Um I It's a hope, it's a desire, but in reality, it's all likely not going to happen. Um so the message is meet them where they're at. Um provide for them an environment that feels safe. They clearly know that there's something that's not okay. Um everyone's home. The The world that they know that was secure for them has been flipped upside down. I want you to start looking at some of the research on what this does to children. The best place to look at that research is really Israel. Israel is almost always in a state of duress. Um and when you start looking at the rates of PTSD in children as they as they get older, the rates are significantly high. And my assumption is through this period of time, the more we the longer it lasts and the more we saturate our children in the discussions of the fear, uh the more likely it is that those things are going to have um an effect on them. Um and let's let's go out of our way to to discover our best selves. Get on the floor with them. Play a game. Engage in something new potentially. Um I know the one person in my family who's having the best time is I have a And to him he's thrilled. Every morning he wakes up and he sees his whole family around. Usually I'm out of the house around 6:00 a.m. So, he's not up at that point. And he's looking and if we could see the world through their eyes, you see the world through his. The idea that we're all together. And yes, there's a lot of stress in it. But even for a moment, focus on that one idea that here our family is together and there's something beautiful about that. Um and and if only we could see it through the the eyes of a child. But most importantly, is be kind to yourself, really. Um this is not a time to be the hero of your home and to have everything completely structured and everything perfect. And let me recreate the school structure in my home. It's not going to happen. We could work on it and we could try and do our best, but really be kind to yourself. If you need to take a break, take a break. If you need to tell a spouse very clearly, I need I need a pause for a moment. Um I need some help. Then do that. Express that. Let them know and give yourself an opportunity to move on. Um Rabbi Ruttenberg, one more time? Okay, instead of the slides. Okay. Um I'm just going to do two more and then I'm going to move away from the slides a little bit. Um anxiety Anxiety is is the way it manifests in us. Let's switch over to adults for a second. The way anxiety um manifests in adults is going to be different with each person. Uh but one thing we know, let's back up a little bit. Anxiety has a real purpose in the world aside from helping us discover our meaning. It's also our body's way of telling us that there's something wrong. There's something not okay. Um it's there to serve us. It's there to protect us. It's largely helpful, but when overloaded, it becomes uncomfortable and concerning. Um It It comes in many shapes and sizes and flavors. And one thing we know, we're going to get to in a minute when we talk about like what's this doing to our marriages and how we could stay grounded in that. Um is that the men generally um go in with their anxiety and women generally go out. And I don't like making statements like that, but when you look at the research, it's pretty clear that there are different approaches to this. And I think we generally one side or the other is saying, "I'm doing it better than you." One side is saying um look, I I'm not expressing my anxiety and that's the best way to do it. And the other side is suggesting um that I am expressing my anxiety, so therefore I'm more evolved and more in touch with my emotions. Um so one thing we need to know that there isn't one that's better than the next. You could have any person and if you look at this slide, I believe all of us go through all of these emotions every single day at this point. We go through our happiness and our sadness and our rage and all those things. Um and and they're okay. And they're okay. And they're here to tell us that there's something not quite right and now you need to respond to it. You're in a state of danger, pay attention to it and be careful. And what's helpful, and you see this a lot, is that people want to feel empowered in that space. I think one of the reasons why we very quickly ran out of toilet paper was not only because there was a need and it was a fear that we were going to run out altogether is that there very few areas right now where we could feel truly empowered. Where we could feel like we could do something to express the agency of our lives, agency over our homes and ourselves. And it created this very strong sense of, you know, let's get out there and do something cuz otherwise we feel very powerless. So one thing, what should we do? Number one, we got to start with you are not Batman. You're not like Batman. Batman is the stoic character. Batman who either has no feelings or does an amazing job at completely obliterating his feelings. We are not that. We are much more than that. Um we need to be expressive. We need to find a way to communicate that with other people. We need to find a language that's expressive how we feel. Um our children need us to provide them with stability. But here's a point and I I want to grant us all permission. They need us to be the adults in the house. They need us to be stable and provide them with some sense of comfort. But it's also okay for them to see us in our state of humanity, in our state of vulnerability. It teaches them something, too. It teaches them that my parent, who is who takes care of me, who's a beautiful human being, who's very capable, is also complex, is also afraid sometimes. And it gives them permission. It's almost like modeling permission to them that they're allowed to have their own emotions. Um and they're allowed to experience them. So even though we're supposed to be strong, um and we're supposed to be collected, this is certainly not a time to become like Batman and say, "Okay, I'm going to be that guy." It's not a time to become a hero. It's a time to get honest, to get vulnerable, to get real, and certainly a time to quiet our need for perfection. Quiet our need to become the perfect people who are managing this 100%. Um I remember uh there was a a moment. I think we could all see each other now. Is that correct? Is that better? Um I think this is better. I get to see people and I hope you can as well. But there was a moment where uh my wife and I, um as I remember mentioned, she's also a a psychologist. Um she uh we were we were out and and there's certainly a need, certainly at the beginning of our career, to be very honest. Um there was a need to present yourself a certain way, to be the one who sort of has their act together. Um and and um, we were once out, we were at a uh at a park. It was like a whole lot of event and we were out at uh at one of these they had these blow up places uh that is blow up like things you jump on. One of the kids were pretty young at the time. And we were there having a good time. Everyone looked okay and we certainly were playing the part of everything is together and then we noticed one of our younger kids just started screaming, flailing his arms, running around. Everything was sort of got nutty for a moment. It took us a second to realize that he had gotten a a cotton candy and there was a bee on it and he took a big bite into that bee and it stung him in his in his mouth and his tongue. Um, and I remember there was that moment where there was a friend of ours who who mentioned, he said, "Oh, here you have the if you imagine the scene, everyone screaming and running around and we're trying to get everyone calm and collected. Um, we're all outdoors and then someone sort of came by and said, "You know, the two psychologists trying to keep their kids in order." Um, and it was one of those moments that was very humanizing. It sort of brought us back to this place of we don't need to be that all the time. We don't need to have our act together all the time and be like Batman and and everything is contained on a regular basis. There's there's space and room for vulnerability. There's a there's space for our own sense of humanity. Um, and if there's a time for us to focus on it, it's certainly now. It's certainly now. Um, anxiety on many levels could could shut us down. Um, and we move in different certainly in different directions. Um, I just wanted to show you this this slide real quick only because I I enjoyed making it. Um, but here you have uh there's this Give me one sec. Um, you have uh different ways of dealing with anxiety. You have the people who retreat into their little bubble and you have those who become very controlling. And they're the ones who sort of take take charge. Um and say, "Okay, I got this. I got this in control. Don't worry about it." Um and and it gives them a false sense of hope. Um and a portent part of all this is that we, in our own minds, we believe ourselves to be correct in the way that we deal with it. And that is the of the primary reasons why there could be a lot of discontent in our homes, in our relationships, because there's this false belief that if I'm going to Costco with a gun and I'm ready to take on the world, that that's the better way as opposed to one who's retreating. And the truth is we all have a very long history of why we act the way we do. I want to talk a little bit about relationships. Uh and I'm going to show you this slide and then I'll back it off for a second. This is a slide um that was taken out of a newspaper um shortly after with the a few days ago um in China when they removed when they removed the quarantine in certain arenas. Uh there were a few articles that came out about people lining up, young couples lining up to get divorced. Um so much so that they had to stopped out they had to stop the process uh and the proceedings within that within that space, within that area of the world, saying, "This is not there are too many people in the same arena, in the same space. It's not It's dangerous for us to be there." So, this is a it's a reality that relationships are not supposed to be held in these very close quarters. It's not um even the best of relationships are not supposed to exist in a space where we're together all the time. Um and not only are we together all the the there's no ability to leave, there's no ability really to take a walk, to get some air, to get some space, and it puts a great deal of stress on any relationship as we're seeing what came out of China. Like this literally you have like an ordinate amount of people saying we were together for too long and we couldn't tolerate it. And chances are by the way, most of those people if they would have taken a moment just to pause and reflect, they would have seen potentially the better parts in one another in that space. So, they What exactly is our role when we're doing that? When we see this as a reality, what what keeps a relationship going in a time like this? What should we focus on? When you look at the research on the success of long-term relationships, there are a few ingredients that I think are really meaningful at this time. Number one, we need to choose to see. And again, this is a real choice. We need to choose to see the best in the other. Um We need to make that a deliberate thought process and a deliberate felt sense that this is something that we're going to do, that I'm going to see the best in you. I'm going to choose to see your goodness even though you're in a space of struggle. Um even even if or especially if it is different than yours. Um especially if their way of coping is different than yours and you're very judgmental about that and you believe that you have the correct way. It is precisely that time for you to say that I'm going to see the best in you and understand the way that you're going to cope. Number two, don't keep score. This is not a time to keep score with how many things you did and how many things the other did. This is a time to but open our open up our hearts and say, I we're doing this together. And there are these moments when we feel really scattered, really disconnected from ourselves, and if if only in those moments we could have someone who cares for us say, "It's okay. I could still see the best in you. I could see the goodness in you in that part." Um where you're not saying, "I did my part and now I'm done. Now it's your turn." Um where you're saying, "Okay, how do we do this together? How do we keep a home with our differences and with the stress of being together all the time? How do we keep it functioning? How do we keep it connected uh and meaningful?" Um It sounds amazing when someone says, "Like they're doing their best and I know that you're stressed right now and the way that you're acting is not fully indicative of who you are as a person and you're trying your hardest." Um and it's always a great question to ask ourselves and certainly in a time like this, what is needed of me right now? What is the world asking of me? What does God want for me? What do I need for my own development? There was a beautiful story I once heard that kind of expresses an old Hasidic tale of a man who was very poor and I love these stories of of these poor people when it came to the holiday of Sukkot. Number one, like they they give us some insight into what it means to really love to do a mitzvah. Not just to do it, but to truly love it. And these people who like fully sacrificed for things that that really mattered for them. And so while most of us can't connect to can't connect to it on a deeply personal level, it's nice to know that people like this exist in the world. That they're so passionate about their relationship with themselves and with God. So there was this very poor man um who didn't have enough money to buy an esrog. And it was erev Sukkot and he was debating. He said, "What do I do? I can't go into the holiday without an esrog. You need it." Um so he did what was what he believed to be what was needed for him in the moment. We all know that in the Ashkenazi world, you you put on tefillin uh during Chol HaMoed. So, for those 8 days, those 9 days, you're not putting on any tefillin whatsoever. So, he waited out and he said, "Listen, I'm not wearing my tefillin now. If I sell my tefillin, I could buy an etrog. And that's what's needed of me right now. That's what's called upon for me in this moment." So, that's what he did. He sold his tefillin, he bought an etrog, and in the moment he felt, "I did what I was supposed to do." Um and after that, he came home, he was excited, he put the etrog out on the counter, he went out for a few other errands to get ready. He came home for lunch. Uh he's sitting down with his wife, they're eating this delicious salad, they're eating everything. And he started He wanted to tell his wife the story of what he did, the sacrifice that he made, and it and his inner belief about what he was doing. Um and he said, "I I sold my tefillin because I don't need them right now, and I bought an etrog because I do. And that's what God wants of me in this moment." Um and his wife's face turned completely red, and she said, "I really hope you're enjoying your salad." And he said, "Why? What do you mean?" She said, "Well, I I knew we we didn't have enough money for an etrog. I came home, and I saw a lemon on the counter, and I put it together in with the salad, I cut it up, and and you're eating it. So, I hope you're enjoying your etrog." And when you think about his reaction, he he followed the same line of thinking. And he said, "What is needed of me right now in this space? What am I What should be my reaction? I could get angry, I could get frustrated, I could lash out with rage. But instead, he responded with with the same intent that he had in selling his tefillin and buying an etrog in the first place. He responded with telling his wife how much he loves her, how much he appreciates her, how much he values that relationship. She in turn went to China and stood online, like we saw before, but uh he stayed with himself, and he stayed with that moment. And when we think about what's asked of us in these spaces, um who do we want to become? Our relationships are the most precious things in the world. And right now is a time where most of us in all likelihood we feel that, we know that, but it also is stressing us out so much that it's hard to remain present in that relationship. But what's asked of us in this moment? What do we need? What What does What do our loved ones need from us? And what do we need from them? And how could we rise to that particular occasion? Um, and and that to me is just like one of those beautiful stories of letting us know that there's a way. There's a way to manage in times of duress. One of those ways, there's there's a whole world of literature when it comes to locus of control. It's a term that was put together by a researcher in the '80s. Uh, Julian Rotter. He actually was quite earlier, but but some of his more meaningful work came out then. And Julian Rotter spoke about this concept called internal versus external locus of control. An internal locus of control is a sense or an ability that a person has to say that I create my own destiny. I'm in charge of my life. I'm in charge. I could seek my freedom. I could acquire my freedom, but it's up to me. I possess that capacity. An external locus of control is a person who feels completely powerless. Where they say, "Why should I bother? Why should I try? Whatever I it's going to fail. Um, it is fate-based. It is based on Whatever comes my way, that's what I'm going to deal with. I'm not in control of anything. Things are going to happen to me." And that person walks around with a general sense of why does everything bad happen to me as opposed to my creating something. And the truth is when you look at this time period, most of us are stuck in a space of external locus of control. There are things that are happening to us truly outside of our awareness, outside of our ability to control. However, we need to start focusing on the things that we can control. There are things that we could really hold on to. Victor Frankl um in in his in his quintessential book Man's Search for Meaning, which is a beautiful book for a time like now. Um where you're looking for meaning in the suffering. Um that book and there's another great book called The Choice, which I would highly recommend. It's another beautiful book about finding finding yourself in a space of suffering. But he said, just to quote what Victor Frankl says in Man's Search for Meaning, he said, "Everything can be taken from man, but one thing. The last of the human freedoms. To choose one's attitude in any given set of circumstances, to choose one owns way." And he's saying that everything could be taken from you. But the only thing that can't is who we are in the face of adversity. That can never be taken from us. And that's something that we take with us all the way till the end. How we respond at every moment of our lives. And we need to look at the things that are outside of our control and as best as we can become at peace with it and internalize it and say that's okay. This is This is God's God's will and we can't truly understand why in this moment and maybe we'll understand one day. But until then, what can I do to to what can I look at that I am truly in control of? Um yes, obviously we're taking the necessary precautions. We're protecting ourselves and others. We're We're quarantining ourselves. Um we're getting to We're not getting together with other people. We're certainly staying away if we're not feeling well. Um but if we're waiting if our primary mindset is to sit all day and wait for this to end and wait for some form of uh some form of pill that's created or or that the FDA says we could use and it truly works. If we sit there waiting for that, then we're truly in a state of powerlessness, because we're in no position, we're not in the driver's seat, we're only waiting. And that's that would be a great example of someone sitting at home with their primary attitude being, "I want to wait until the there's a cure, and I'm not going to do anything about anything else right now. I'm just going to let go of myself." Um that's a great example of external locus of control. What we are in control of in this time really really matters, uh and trying to find those things, trying to discover the things that we can be in control of. And what do some of them look like? What are some of the arenas, uh things that we can do to care for ourselves, to focus on who we are as people? So, number one, I think most of us have seen the memes, and we've seen all the videos. This is one presentation where I can't really show any videos, because everyone's seen everything. It's amazing how fast the world is moving. Um but and we've all heard these, but it's good to review them. Um here's some of the methods, and obviously if you want, I'll share these slides with you later. Uh number one, take a break from the news. Uh just take a pause every once in a while, or set up several hours in your day. And I'm sure if you notice, and you start paying attention, um and there plenty of studies to to back this up, that the your anxiety is directly connected to the information that you're getting. And especially in a time like this, where the world is moving so fast, it's hard to know what's real, what's true, what's accurate, what's honest, or what's just something that's going to elicit fear. So, if we could take time in our day to deliberately, again, this is about ex internal locus of control. This is about us saying we need to be in charge of ourselves. Um we could take a break. That's something we're capable of doing. Um we should absolutely ban Googling medical symptoms. Um looking at looking up Google to see what what what what it could possibly be is something that's only going to distress us. And there are plenty of doctors right now, the whole telehealth community is blowing up. There are many ways to check in with real people um to see how we're doing. But But Google is not a doctor, it'll never be a doctor, and all it does is elicit a lot of anxiety. So, speak to a person who truly knows. Check your symptoms with them if you need to. Reach out to someone you haven't spoken to in a while. Um and it's an opportunity talking about what's going on in the world right now when it comes to kindness. We're not only trying to preserve ourselves. One of the ways of preserving ourselves is by reaching out and and becoming magnanimous, going beyond ourselves. It gives us a sense of satisfaction. It gives us a sense of purpose. And even when you are doing it, when you're reaching out to someone, try to do it like this. I right now I'm looking at 25 different people. Um and it's very nurturing. It's nice to see other people in their own space, their own world. Especially my cousin Reza is here. My brother is here. It's just beautiful to see these people. Um and it it makes me feel It makes me feel connected. And David, David's here, too. My other cousin. It's It I I'm happy. I'm happy to see you guys. I love you guys. And uh so when you do it, try to not only call them, if you can, if there's a way to to put it on FaceTime, so you guys could have like that that interaction, that more intimate personal interaction, it goes a long way. Um you want to check in with your loved ones, um those that you generally, you know, don't check in on as often, maybe go out of your way to check in on them. Um put on some relaxing music. Take a bath. Take some time just to nurture yourself. Better yet, if you're crazy enough, take a bubble bath. You know, or one of those things that, I don't know, they call them bath bombs or something. Something that'll just make you feel for that moment for that moment like a little peace, a little calm. And I know these things are small and they're simple, but enough of these small simple things will be able to survive this in a meaningful way. It's interesting, I wrote paint. Some people paint, but to be honest, painting makes me very anxious. So, don't come to my house and paint. Paint in your own homes. I know my kids love painting. But, that's a great example of for something works for some and doesn't work for others. Um Pray a little bit more meaningfully. Take a little bit of extra time. Tonight is Rosh Chodesh. There's a power in the world about a sense of newness, starting over. Take a little moment. I think at this point we have a lot of time. And how are we going to choose to do that? Now, we could look at it from the external locus of control, that we're stuck here, we can't do anything. So, let's make a goal to watch the entire Netflix. And when we're done with that, try to get through the entire YouTube. Or, we could say things like, yes, I have time. Maybe I could dedicate that to some, you know, spiritual pursuits. And pray a little bit more meaningfully. Maybe take a little part and say, let me translate this so I truly know what I'm saying and and and what it means to me. Um try to do some meditations. There's some great apps out there. They have Calm that you could get. They have Headspace, which is phenomenal. These are just 10 minutes a day to try to center yourself, remind yourself of your breathing, um bring yourself back to a place that is more manageable. manageable. Um the next one is tough for us um Jewish folk when it comes to nourishing our bodies. Um and we have all seen the many, many memes of me before coronavirus and me after. Um and and yes, when we're stressful, we eat. That's what we do. It's one of the ways that we cope and manage. We eat and we drink and we turn to habits that relieve us uh from that anxiety. Um but the truth is, if we're focusing on ourselves and it through an internal locus of control, we're going to spend a little more time and a little more attention trying to nourish ourselves in a healthy way, not in a way that is just about relieving that anxiety, but what would actually feel good at the end of the day. And that makes a real difference. And again, don't lose sight of who you are. Trust Trust in yourself. Trust in what you know as yourself to be as a human being because I know in this time we kind of lose that. I think I was left with coming to the end. Um something that's been really helpful for me has been noticing the goodness that I'm surrounded with in this time. Um like you know that with this line like me come play stroll who's like the great nation of Israel. Um we're a great people. The amount of emails, the amount of WhatsApps and texts that we're all getting um of programs that are being developed to give money to people who are in a state of crisis for delivering food for the elderly who can't leave their homes, to duck a funds and emergency financial support. People are all lining up saying let me give let me give of my time and and even my danger. I have a dear friend, Josh, who's on the front lines. He's a doctor who's now intubating people in the emergency room. He's a real hero. He's a superhero like the other nurses, like everyone who's doing their job in that front line. Um and who who's like the Jewish people? And and the people of the world, I think if there's you know, just a few weeks ago we were talking about anti-Semitism and now I I don't remember a time where I felt more connected to everybody, more connected to people in China and in Russia. Um all these other parts of the world because there's a universal sense of suffering and it brings us together in that space. And in that space there's limited room for hate. Um and that's one of the positive aspects we could find in all of this that there's a goodness that's coming out in all people. And and who's who else is is like the Jewish people? I want to end with a just Chris- Kristin Neff, who's a researcher on self-compassion. Um and what it means to be compassionate to ourselves in moments of distress. She said it's made up of three characteristics, three elements. Number one is self-kindness or refraining from harsh criticisms. And there's a time right now is a time where we can't be overly critical of who we are as people. We can't be overly critical of our behaviors because we're not our we're not fully ourselves. We want to grow, but we also need to be accepting and we need to be kind. Um number two is recognizing one's own humanity. Um we're imperfect. We're all imperfect. Um everyone experiences pain. And by noticing that and understanding that, it permits you to be a little compassionate about the parts of yourself that are not whole. And number three is is mindfulness, being aware and giving a language to the things that that you can't summon the words for. Um and once you have that language, you could then utilize it to communicate with people, uh especially our loved ones, to let them know what we need and let them know that we're there for them in this space. I just want to end with a story and I believe most of you know the story, if not all of us. I still like to share it anyway because every time I hear it, um it impacts me. So much so that I named my my son after after one of the characters of this story. They're two notorious brothers um from the Hasidic dynasty. Um we know the the Rebbe Reb Melech, Reb Elimelech of Leżajsk, and his brother Reb Zusha. His brother Reb Zusha was his older brother who was more of a a wanderer in the fields, in the forests, and a meditator. And Reb Elimelech was a man of the books. Um and they had of the most loving relationships that you could imagine. Um there's a great book called The Holy Brothers. Um if you want to look at what it means to be um a brother and truly love another human being, it's a beautiful book to read. And so these two, before they became recognized as very holy people, they they traveled the world together um in mystery. Uh they they didn't let people know how holy they were. They wanted to see the world and connect with the people. Um and they traveled and there's so many legends uh that took place, legendary tales that took place during that time. But my favorite tale was they found themselves in in a harsh environment. And in that environment, there was a a man who placed the two of them in prison for a period of time. Um and they were stuck in a dungeon. And Reb Elimelech um realized that it was getting late in the afternoon. And he was going to miss his opportunity to pray Mincha. And he looked around the room and he was about to pray and he noticed that there was a very unsanitary bucket in the room and as we all know, you can't pray when there's an unsanitary bucket in the room. It's not it's not respectful to the prayer. So, he turned to his brother and he started crying. He said, "This is not okay. It's not fair. Like I all I want to do is a Jew is pray. I want to do my part. I want to do what's asked of me in this moment." And Reb Zusha, his older brother, reassured him and said, "The same God that told us that we should pray Mincha is also saying you shouldn't pray now. So, your service, the way you show up to life right now, is by not praying. Is by being in a space of silence." Um and Reb Elimelech was so enthralled by that idea. And and it and it impacted him so deeply that he realized what his role was in that moment. His role was not to pray in the moment. His role was to just be present and and find another way to serve. And he was so excited that he started dancing and they started making a whole ruckus. That was his service in the moment. And the guard who was by the prison said, "What are you all about?" And all the other prisoners said these these two crazy guys are dancing around the bucket. So the man said, "Let me take the bucket out." He took out the bucket and they prayed because it was no longer there. But it's a story that kind of tells us that there are different things in life that are asked of us at different times. And what's asked of us today is very different than what was asked of us 2 months ago, 3 months ago. Over there we were doing what we know what to do. And this is a new arena, a new space. But we need to dig deep and ask ourselves in a meaningful way, "What's asked of me right now? How could I show up to my life? How could I show up to this space in a in as meaningful a way as possible? How could I choose to be giving? How could I choose to be kind and more patient? How could I choose to take those little extra moments to be present with my kids as a and my spouse as opposed to separating myself and running from it?" And in that space hopefully collectively we'll find a way to nourish ourselves, find ourselves, and and hopefully this situation is going to provide us with a sense of healing and we're not going to have a great deal of tragedy within the world and certainly within our community. So let's stay safe and let's stay connected. And again, I thank you so much for this opportunity. Okay, Dr. Broman, first of all, standing ovation. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you. All right. All right. standing ovation. That was the most awkward standing ovation ever. You should know. So sorry about that. So there there were quite a few people who who asked questions. I'm just going to paraphrase a few of them. One person asked, "How can we go into Pesach and have joy with all that's going on? I don't I don't I don't believe there's a universal answer to that question. I think each person needs to ask themselves how could I find joy in a space of real suffering? What How deep do I need to dig to discover my own sense of joy and comfort? But also by the way, just to add it's okay to go into Pesach with a broken heart. Um and it's okay to be in that space as well, to realize that it's not the same as what it was last year, and it's not going to be the same as it will be next year. But I do believe that if you find a way to discover your own sense of freedom and your own sense of joy in something a little bit different, something unique that's just for you, that could give you a sense of meaning. I imagine that the rest of the Pesachs that you'll experience the rest of your life will have a a new found sense of meaning for you. And that's the task. The task is when meaning isn't given to us, how do we find it? And implicit in the question is number one, it's okay for it to be a little challenging for all of us. And number two, what could we do just slightly differently that would make it a little bit more special for us. Thank you. Another person asked how do we address fears of death in our self or others? Mhm. It's real. And it's real and we hear and we saw I think that I looked at the numbers recently and uh it's it's frightening the amount of people who are on ventilators, the amount of people who've lost their lives, the fact that they have in Queens a hospital that has a refrigerated truck because they no longer have room in the morgue. It's a it's a harsh reality. And and one thing we need to know that not everyone is going to experience that fear the same way. People who have in general a fear of death, that's going to be a lot more pronounced at this time in this space. Um I'm more than happy. I think it's a really personal journey, you know, for to sit down and have that conversation with a person. Um and and how we make our way through that. But the truth is the truth is we're all we're all dealing with the fear of death on a regular basis. We just shove it so deep into our unconscious that we don't really have access to it. But everyone is aware of the fact that we're not going to be here forever. This is a moment that brings that fear to the surface and you have to look at it face-to-face. You have to stare it down and say, "How do I How do I truly fear about that feel about this?" Um and there is no relief in the fear of death. There's only the the reassurance in the joy of life and saying, "Who am I? What am I doing? And how am I making my experience every day meaningful?" That's the part that we have control of. And that's the only antidote to the fear is looking at it, giving a language to it, sharing it with people, being with others in that fear, but also then saying, "Okay, what How do I make my life meaningful in in the choices that I do have?" And that's the the the antidote to the fear is the joy of living. Thank you. Another question was asked, is um how do we like if somebody um has proper emunah or maybe the the right I should have asked the question is proper bitachon. Um can they still have anxiety? Does Does having anxiety mean that that you don't have proper emunah and bitachon? I think if you if you don't have anxiety during this period, um there's something not quite right. Um this is a time to be anxious uh because anxiety protects us. It's that anxiety um and you see some people they've distorted that and they said, "Well, I have absolute faith in God. And because of that, I'm going to hang out with people. I'm going to go to crowded environments because I have faith." They had a group of I forget what it was, like a like 1,500 people who got together the other day because and they were God-fearing people. Um because God's going to save us. But what God is asking us to do right now is to pay attention to what the doctors are saying. And be afraid. Be afraid because it's that fear that will keep you out of danger. It'll keep you out of harm's way. So, we shouldn't confuse the idea of bitachon and emunah. Um and if I have bitachon, I'm not afraid. It's if I bitachon, I know that God's with me. And I don't know what that means because I can't I'm not the controller of my own life. But I know that God's with me. That's faith and that's emunah. Um that God will do like a parent, he'll do the best he can for me and he has my best interests in mind. But anxiety is necessary and is called for and is needed. And let's lean into that anxiety as opposed to saying, "Well, this is bad that I have it. It doesn't make me a good enough human being." You're a wonderful human being and you're anxious and that's what makes you wonderful. Um thank you. Another person commented that um This is what they wrote. Dr. Promin, many people look at a diagnosis of COVID as a death sentence because of what we're hearing on the news. Just like hearing any other medical diagnosis, how would you recommend people to cope with actually being diagnosed with COVID-19? What are some healthy coping mechanisms? Well, one thing we know, again, I I I I think it'd be a great idea to have a medical expert at some point. I know we have Dr. Rumberg with us who could certainly answer this question better than myself. But one thing we know is that it's certainly it's not a death sentence. Um this is for some people it is, for most it's not. When you start looking at the numbers, it's anywhere between, you know, 0.5% in certain areas and in some very high countries dealing with some older populations around 8%. So, it's far from a death sentence. Um, and they're very clearly stating that unless you have all the all the severe symptoms, stay home. And you're going to be okay and we're going to get through this. Um, and it's only if you need that type of intervention, um, that you should make your way to to a hospital setting. But most of you call any doctor now, they're telling you unless you have X, Y, and Z symptoms, which are very, very severe, um, there's no reason to get completely panicked and alarmed. Stay centered. But we do need tools. We absolutely need tools to keep ourselves grounded, um, and connected. And we have Jewish meditations and you have general meditations and you have mindfulness and you have breathing techniques. And there's a dime a dozen for all of these on on YouTube. They're all there. You could gain some amazing tools. Um, and and that's what we need. We need We can't We can't do those tools now, um, but I would recommend that right after you get off, you know, this line, start looking up, downloading mindfulness tools, and downloading, um, you know, apps that are about meditations. It gives you the ability to make your way through like a challenging situation. Um, but it's not a death sentence. We know that to be the case. What about business? It's terrifying. It's terrifying. It's I got a question if you don't mind. Not permanent, of course. Yes. Um, if someone, like, in general has a disability like autism or which has anxiety, a lot of anxiety, because of COVID, for example, COVID, um, how should he deal with not over-texting or calling people too much or or calling his friends too much and getting them all pestered and stuff like that. What should he do to keep himself busy? Reminder, remember, um people with autism have limited amount of interests as well. So, keep that in mind. I again, you you you should be very clear with his this individual and say, "I'm really here for you. I'm present with you. Um let's find other tools that would help you that you're not sabotaging some of these relationships." But, another point of view is if you know you have a friend who has autism and they're really anxious, let's open up our hearts a little bit more and tolerate some of that. Um I think that's okay for us to tolerate a person in a time of need who doesn't really have a language to find another way to comfort themselves. Uh but, both of them are good solutions. And again, what we're talking about now is not solutions. We're talking about coping mechanisms. When someone speaks about being out of work, there aren't many solutions right now. Um you know, they say like uh at least a third, at least a third of the country is is struggling in dire straits financially right now. And we don't have solutions and yes, they passed a uh a trillion-dollar, you know, stimulus package to try to keep the keep the the the economy afloat, but it's still not a solution. Um we need to cope. We need to make our way through this and utilize whatever tools we have, connect with whoever we possibly can, support ourselves through this challenging time. We're not going to cure it because we're not in a state We're not there yet. Um but, we do have each other and we do have the tools that we have. And that's what we need to focus on primarily. Thank you, Stephen. All right, Rabbi Weinberg. Yeah, okay. Um Dr. um Dr. Prom, another person asked, "If teenagers aren't taking this moment seriously enough and not helping out in the house, and even talking back, and being chutzpadic. Um how can a parent send the message that Hashem is sending us a message to change and do better that the teenagers will listen to? Right, it's We were talking about this a little bit before. I've actually been having a very hard time trying to communicate with teenagers altogether. Um I'm actually not referring to my boys. They're doing amazing. My two teenage boys, they're thankfully just really showing up. Um but I've had a really hard time trying to directly communicate with teenagers about what's going on with them. And I don't believe they have that language. And if they are afraid, and if they are fearful, um I don't believe they're going to share that with you unless they're very sophisticated emotionally. Um so we need to we need to assume that they're anxious, and that they're picking up on all the anxieties that are surrounding them. Um and and address them on that level, too. Um we can't we can't take away that chutzpah, and obviously it's a work in progress. Um but it might be helpful to engage that individual as best as we can in their fear. Uh there's no quick fix to addressing that. Usually, when someone is completely non-chutzpadic for years, uh I can't imagine this scenario is going to just turn them chutzpadic. Um it is it's usually like a a problem that's been around for a while. It's just becoming exacerbated. And that's a great example. Don't We're not Batman. Don't be Batman right now. Um let's not try to fix things that have been around for a very long time. Let's address where we are, focus on them, um make the best of the situation that we're in as opposed to trying to cure the ills that may have been around for a while. And you could let them know, be vulnerable, and say, "This is a hard time for all of us. It's a hard time for me. I'm struggling. And and I could really use your support. We could use your support. Your home could use your support." Dr. Perlman, somebody else made comment that I'll share. They said, "Please share with everyone that now that we need to exercise our mind and our faith, we also need to exercise our body." And by doing which is somewhat challenging, I think, in a quarantine state unless you have a treadmill or machine or But the person's making a point that the importance of exercise during this time. Um 100% There's another interesting question. Um you talk about how there's no space for hate. How do you not feel hate towards people who put others at risk? For example, those who are aren't following the social isolation guidelines. I I definitely have many strong feelings towards anyone who's putting anyone else at risk. Um and justifiably, if you're a person who, you know, deliberately makes a choice to, you know, violate something that we know that's very harmful. Um I I don't know if I would want to use the term hate, but I'm very displeased with that choice that a person's making. And we have absolutely all the right in the world to express that, to let them know um it's not okay for someone to do something like that. You know, if we want to hate, let us hate, you know, but uh maybe this is a time where we try to work on our own, you know, need for hate. Somebody else asked this to the whole group, "Is feeling numb normal?" Is it normal to feel numb at this time? Is it nor- Is it normal to feel numb? It's normal to feel anything at this time. There's not a single emotion that you could feel that is not normal in a time like this. Um everything is justified, everything is acceptable. What we then choose to do with that feeling, um that's what makes us, that's what separates us as people. Those who are actively engaging in and working on it. Um but to feel something, feel a way, and you're even if you even if you don't want to feel numb, even if I made my objective, I do not want to feel numb. I guarantee you I'm going to feel numb at some point. Um because we're going to go through we're going to cycle through every emotion that's available to us. Um and and the best thing we could do is give it a name and communicate about it, share it, permit others to be present with us in it, uh and survive it, cope with it, not cure it, but cope with it. Okay, Dr. Brom, thank you so much. Thank you so much for having me. It's a real pleasure and honor. And um you know, I I spoke in the same forum last night and I I focused on the topic of appreciation. Mhm. And I think that um during this difficult times is really a time to also work on appreciation and work on being grateful for all the the little blessings that are all around us that we often take for granted. And I And I think that it's always we should always work on appreciation, but I think specifically right now during this time. You know, making an appreciation chart, having your family members write down things that you appreciate about life, even in this situation, appreciate even in the difficult moments. Like putting a voice, putting words onto the appreciation, I think can often sort of limit the the negativity um that's going on all around us. Um the other suggestion that I personally made is something that I'm trying to do myself, which is to um limit my cell phone use, period. I I got a I bought a great book called How to break up with your phone. And um I highly recommend it. Um and one of the things I'm trying to do is make limits on how much I use my phone. Um and when I don't make the limits, my kids remind me. Uh but but having limits to it, especially during this time, because it's a special opportunity now to spend time with family. But if we're glued to our phone and watching the latest piece of news on Yeshiva World and CNN, and maybe they changed the news in the last 20 minutes, and we're obsessed by this stuff, we're actually going to make ourselves more distant from our family members. Cuz when we're around family, they're not making eye contact with them, they even feel more distant from us. So, I think my personal one my personal suggestion is to try to use this time as an opportunity to set really healthy limits with our phone. And make our phones make technology into our friend versus our that we're like a tool of the technology. You know, so one of the suggestions I personally would recommend is make a limit, say 11:30 at night. Or whatever time you like, an hour before you would normally go to sleep, put away the phone, put on some music, force yourself just like read something and actually read it, not just skim it the way most of us do because we're so used to just get getting a ping and a and a text and a WhatsApp. And don't allow yourself to turn on that phone the first half hour or hour that you wake up in the morning. Have breakfast, daven, do something, and then go to your phone, and you'll feel so much calmer, at least I do. Um if one does that. So, um just my my little personal suggestion. Um I also mentioned that tomorrow night um is after shul we're going to be having another meeting right over here with four four speakers um including um B'ezrat Hashem Rabbi Kraft and Rabbi Mosheyev who are um who are on the mend from uh the the coronavirus, baruch Hashem. And um this is the flyer for tomorrow night. Everyone's invited to join us um over here. And uh once again once again a very very big thank you to uh Dr. Broman. Really appreciate you. And appreciate this class. And um a recording of this will go on uh the YouTube um thing with Dr. Broman's permission. Uh will go on on on our YouTube um and if you have a chance to to subscribe to Emes YouTube, please do so so we can send you messages, and we're going to have live YouTube events as well. Lastly, we just opened a new website. We just started a new website that we're working on for a year called emettorah.org emettorah.com. And um you definitely check that out. We have a lot of classes and lectures there as well. Thank you very much everyone and um Thank you for having me. You can all take yourself off mute and thank you Dr. Perlman um We should all take the video off. We should all be on video and wave to each other. Yeah, let's do it. Yeah, yeah, everyone turn on their video. We should all see each other. Thank you so much. I I I love seeing people. Someone muted me for like forever. You got muted. Wait, Dr. Perlman, I have a question pertaining to working from home while your kids are anxiously wanting your attention. Yeah. And you have to work from home and you have to put in the hours that you would usually do from work at work, but yet you have to attend to your kids like they're learning from home and their attentions. I mean How would you suggest to deal with that? It's going to be very imperfect and forgive forgive yourself for the imperfections. Forgive yourself for the imperfection of of your work. Forgive yourself for the imperfections of your home and make sure you're taking care of yourself as well. It's not going to be perfect. There's no there's no there's no solution to such a dilemma. There's just the best way through. So, you got to find the best way through. Thank you Dr. Perlman for answering my question before by the way. All right, thank you. Thank you. All right, I'm going to have to run guys. Have a great evening. Thank you very much Dr. Perlman. Thank All the best.