Parshas Naso- Neziris

that Allah pulled this together. I mean I I can't give a sham tomorrow night at a wedding in Brooklyn. He said no let's keep it going and he put it together latest minute. It's not simple and he arranged to share tomorrow night. So I mean there is a shir tomorrow night and I just wanted to thank Beny. I mean he's the gaba here right? So he's he's part of the deal but he's sponsored. That's very special. Um he sponsored again. Let me just say it on the camera for the foolish name of his mother. The name again is >> I think it's >> safety cuz my phone's recording. >> Pull it up. >> Okay. Sra >> A. Amen. Amen. Okay. So I mean the topic of the jour is is Nazerus. Um, and I I want to touch upon some points that are discussed, you know, quite a bit, some that aren't really discussed at all. And I'd like to sort of view it just within the context of what life was like in the ancient world. Really helps a lot. I think I think I mean there are so many different approaches. So, and and also it's so important to learn from many different people because they have different vantage points. I can only share mine. But I think it's really and I I think it's a aspect of learning that's o overlooked and underemphasized because if if you're cognizant of what the norms in the ancient world are, things resonate in ways that are that are obvious. So the first starting point is is this idea of becoming an which par introduces, is it a good thing? Is it not a good thing? Right? Um I the Torah tells us gives us a long list of things we have to do, things we're not allowed to do. Mos say um mitzvah that are obligatory, mitz that are not obligatory. But ner is not really one of those. If you want to become a nazer, you have a right to become a nazer and then abstain from wine and then not groom and then not become tame. But it's really its own little domain. So what are attitudes towards the zerus? So this you quite possibly were exposed to with Gimar and Tinus and Nazer where there's actually differing opinions. There are those who extol becoming nazerus and their approach is is that you know more abstension is better for allows us to participate in this world but but that's only because you know you know we need it because the because the flesh is weak and because it's a drive if you can abstain more I think you know an extreme example where I think there's universal would be if a person does come across an enemy woman a captive woman in battle he is allowed to violate her that's really what this is it's it's horrible. It's inhumane. It it's it's it's ugly. And the Torah is quite clear in telling you that it that it's a horrible thing. And I don't think anyone in will will will recommend it. But but the lineal is is that the Torah knows that battle is ugly and that that was a world where people were were in battle was handto hand and it was bloody and you would and you the six mortality was 60 70% and so the Torah allowed it because it would have happened anyway but not but no one will tell you that it's good. Well, then our indulging in physical life in drinking wine. Wine creates dilemas. You know, if you go through the Torah and you read the stories about wine, sometimes that's a very good way to approach Allah. All the stories about wine are bad stories. Right. I'm going to shift completely. >> Look at the first time it shows up. >> Right. Right. All bad. All bad. Uh I'm going to shift the story completely and I'll I'll share a famous truth from the no about hunting. Uh he was asked about whether a Jew is allowed to hunt and he says no. And he says well why not? He says it doesn't say any you're not allowed to hunt. But who's the hunter of the Torah? He's a bad guy. Well if he's a bad guy then because then it's just not a good thing. The stories of no there's Noah. What happens there really needs discussion but he becomes intoxicated. Something awful happens. Um there's lot he becomes intoxicated. There's incest with his daughters. There's it's just the stories with wine are horrible stories. Um so so maybe it's just a bad thing. Um and therefore we'll allow it because people need it. And remember in the ancient world there was very little drink. Now we have water and juice and milk. There was none of this in the ancient world, >> right? It was used for dess. But remember all drinks would go rancid. Juice would spoil because it wasn't pasteurized. It it wasn't boiled. So it would spoil a day after you squeezed it. So no one squeezed juice. There was no such thing as grape juice because it all went bad. And and people sometimes forget that there was no grape juice. So um there was milk would would couldn't hold milk would go bad. People didn't um so that you know wine you needed a drink with with some alcoholic component. Grapes um develop alcohol easily. So it became a basic drink. So it was almost a necessity because you had very little other than water. Um but still it it it creates problems. So one approach is better to be an user. Better to be an user. And you know what another another has to grow is here. One approach is that now you can grow long hair and you can groom it and you can shampoo it. There was no shampoo then. If you would grow long hair it would it would become bad. You would look bad and so it would it would take away from your your standing and and and and so it's a good thing. That's one of the other approaches. No, it's not a good thing. The Torah allows it but it's really not a good thing. If I would sort of shift the discussion that's worthy of a share, they're actually and it really reflects surrounding mindset. There's um different approaches um really among old Ashkanazi Poskim and old Sardi Poskim old Ashkanazi postkim felt that abstaining was good. We discussed this right rolling in the snow and sitting in cold rivers and lots of fasting and that was something that Ashkanasim did in the spar world was it just wasn't there. famous Christian. >> I love the shar because um I don't say things, the says things. Um >> I like you to say things too. >> I do. But um um so we were surrounded by Jesuits in the middle ages and it was all about abstension in the in the church. Priests were celibate. They were nonearies and nonies weren't just about celibacy. They would sleep on cold floors and they were all >> right. So maybe they weren't really celibate. There were lots of but but at least the core idea was that there's no such thing in the Islamic world and so in you know you know I I have to be careful and I can't say anything as dependent effect but in the Ashkanazic world especially when we surrounded by devoutly religious people in medieval Europe when Christians were devoutly religious um the idea of abstension of Gilgal Shellik is sort of built in and so when you see chuva discussed among the early it's abstension it's about self-punishment it's about beating yourself. It's there's none of this in it's all about the heart and the mind and none of this >> just like right >> what >> forum right more happy and >> right right so they have this but that's a little bit different right so it's it's so but that that's a discussion so this really goes back I would eventually these two ideas seep down to the two different worlds world where abstension really was something that was valued and the sorry world with the reverse abstension is is counter I would venture to say people abstain too much that's it can be had at boomerangs you feel deprived anyone I I haven't heard it myself but I heard from people who went to Catholic schools nuns were the hardest of teachers the worst of teachers because people who are deprived and don't engage with life don't engage with people either now is it true of every nun I don't think so I don't know but um so there's so there's two lines of thinking and really it's it's kazal kazal over two markedly different views that may have seeped down to the world of ashkanaz may have affected Christian culture and Islamic culture. Remember both of them were nourished by Yiddishkit. Christianity was started by Jews. Muhammad assumed that he'd be able to convert Jews. He didn't and it became, you know, very difficult for us because of it. But they both really um >> What do you mean by Christianity was started by Jews? >> Yeshua was Jewish. His apostles were Jewish. The early Christians were all Jewish. >> We didn't start the >> They were breakaways of course. I'm not advocating it, but breaking away the separation took time. >> Separation took time. And there's even talk within our world that that kazal attempted to engineer the separation to make it the division clear. But there's much from it that they took and again the first testament the um you know is is part of our Torah is part of their their their their book. They value it. So Christianity is does have strong a strong Jewish underpinning. But Christianity went towards abstension. Ancient Islam did not. Now contemporary Islam might be going in that direction. Contemp you know religions change. So with the jihads and the martyrdom and the so you know but Christians you know religions evolve um um just but let's come back to sources these sources all go back to the garumar in Tinus and this these are very well known okay two anyone who sits and fast used to say is a sinner why is a sinner well why are you abstaining um indulge in the world allows you to then it's a mitzvah And it's actually better for your religious growth. You'll be you your relationship with a relationship with is a relationship. And if a person is pensive and sad and and and always always you know think about punishment his relationship with his wife with his children with people around him with it's all going to be the same. It'll be negative. So don't don't abstain. You're a sinner. And the other approach is no not at all. He's not a sinner. Why does it now bring? So we'll soon see the Gar brings one answer we need to discuss but there were these two. Yeah sure. >> Maybe what it means that the Nazar is a sinner is the reason why he's becoming he is a sinner close to >> you're stealing my thunder. >> You were on topic. You're absolutely on topic. So are these two opinions disagreeing? So I would venture to say no. And how do I say that they don't disagree? Because if one authority quotes both opinions then it must be that they can both be reconciled. Right? Sometimes there's a disagreement. One person says this is the way it should be and the other person says this is the way it should be. They're disagreeing. One is right, one is wrong. But if one person says it should be this way and that same person says it should be this way, those two people are agreeing. The Rambam quotes both of these opinions. In one place he quotes one opinion without mentioning the other and another place he quotes the other opinion without mentioning the other. So look at the Rambam. Okay. So the ramenad quotes one opinion and that opinion is is that that nazirus is no good tells you what you should abstain from. You don't need kazer and a husband doesn't have relations with his wife and she's anita and and you don't work on shabis but but that's it. You're supposed to work and people are supposed to marry and and you're supposed to um drink water. >> Why not? Why not? >> What? >> No. Why not? >> Right. Right. Just just you know some discipline some everything in moderation because the truth is if you don't moderate it you don't appreciate it. by moderating it is making it better for us, right? Anyone who taught classes to a young person who was celibate, right? Who doesn't really understand, you're sitting with a young guy who was celebr it's it's hard for him to hear. You should know for a young person who was celibate, it's very hard for him to hear. Um but then you have to explain that that this is actually long-term good for a marriage because um too much of anything is no good. Um it just loses its power. Um and it you know orthodox marriages hold up better. You should know orthodoxy is forget if you're dealing with somebody who wants to become haz orthodox people um do better on any statistical graph u including in including marriages the orthodox divorce rate last time I saw there's divorce and when sometimes it needs to be some you know some people are not compatible but the last time I saw the numbers it was 10%. Now it that's happened for a reason, >> right? It has to be but you have a better chance of making it work. There's discipline. There's you know mean means you teach yourself not to say things. Um and you know is discipline. There's discipline. It and it helps. So um why am I mentioning this? So this abstension isn't about punishing yourself. It's actually about rewarding yourself. You'll you'll do better. Your marriage will be better. Your relationship will be better. Your you'll appreciate things more when it's done with moderation. So the Rambam in in the Yad is explicit in saying that the Zerus is a bad thing. Um because um because the Tyra tells us what not to to do. Going beyond it is is extra. You don't need it. I mean you're it's too much. So look at the Rambiad. I I highlighted the section that's relevant. Nazar abstains from wine needs to be forgiven because he's obstaining too much. He talks about people who put on extra fast. He's criticizing extra fasts. He says that's not a Jewish way. That's what priests do and that that's not really the Jewish way. Don't do more. Don't have extra abstension. That's the in says exactly the opposite in the says it's a wonderful thing. Why? wine has caused great problems. People get it causes terrible things. You have the Noah story. You have the um load story. You have and in the midrashim every bad story is flavored with wine. So the Pik tells us Noah and and and lo a little less clearly. No, but the madrashim blame wine. Don't think too much. He took a fruit. What is it? A geffin. And what did he do? He squeezed it. Um the madrashim wine is bad. So um so here the Rambam says one thing and here the Rambam says the other thing and one place he says Nazirus is good and one place he says Nazerus is not good. What's probably they're both true. Now before I give you that answer if anyone is free actually Friday morning I I think I mentioned this I give a shir on Zoom back to my old community in Toronto. One of the attendees was a um well not so much was a professor of philosophy at uft a very very bright man and I learned with him for decades for many many years um and he pointed out you know from an academic angle you know we live in a world where truth is absolute it's either this or it's that and you can't write something in one place and write the opposite in another place it's not the way we are his claim is is that in the world of medieval theology, people lived with multiple truths. Yes, I can write this here and I can write there. It's not a problem. You know, the modern mind is going in that direction. Let me shift discussions a little bit. Once upon a time, if you were a Jew, Yiddishkai was the only path. If you were a Christian, Christianity is the only path. In the contemporary Christian world, you should know that there's all this talk about anti-semitism. Is it really so bad or is it exaggerated? Well, >> we don't know. >> I'm not out there. I I think it's a little bit Okay, I don't want to even go there because there's going to be disagreement. >> I mean, anti-semitism uptick now. I mean, it's very obvious how bad it is, >> right? But at the I don't know. I just had such good experiences in my >> We don't hear about it at all. >> Right. Right. See, the reason I'm mentioning it is is that Christians have really many of them have moved towards pluralism. Many do validate Judaism. You know the truth is for years in the pulpit I interface is not coming from Christians. It's coming from among people. >> But the majority of the US population is Christian. So I'm just saying in the US I you know the the again many of you around the secular workforce you may experience it more than I >> what I don't think it's a Christian >> anymore >> this conversation >> anymore. But go back go back aundred years a 20 years ago. what Christian thing for sure >> right so there's really a move towards plurism where they validate other religions >> so so what I would hope what I hope you know you have to live with hope is that Christianity has undergone such a metamorphosis in our own lives where we've seen it become um positive about Judaism um validating pluralistic it validates other paths Is it impossible to say this will happen to Islam? Islam used to be far more progressive than Christianity. But we're forgetting. Go back a few hundred years. Islam was much more tolerant. It was much better to be a Jew in the Islamic world than in the Christian world. All so many of Ashkanaz customs are based on the severe anti-semitism you face in the Christian world that you didn't face in the Muslim world. Everything there hundreds of is based on um just the simple fact that Ashkanazam have to keep the Torah in it with a mantle surrounding cub in a box. Why don't we have a nice box? Because Ashkanazim had to run. They would come, they would burn down the jewels, and you had to run fast. We had to get rid of the boxes. Everything about Ashkanazi life is was impacted on by by really difficult Christian anti-semitism. And there's been a shift. So I one can only hope. But why am I sharing this? Um there's pluralism. And when pluralism, you're a Christian, you say, well, the Jews have a path. There there there are voices even within the Orthodox Jewish world. You saw this more among the Rishim. It's not the way people speak now. I I can't but among the shining for sure the Jewish path is an acceptable path for Jews. The Christian path is an acceptable path for Christians and it's not like us versus them. It's like really different paths for different people. You know a very very positive validating approach. Now that's a world of multiple truths. If there are multiple truths um then the Ram can say one thing in one place which is completely the opposite of what he says somewhere else. It's a little bit more extreme. But how do you reconcile the two ramboms? So the way to reconcile the two rams is with the cleer and that alaser is exactly what you said. This is actually really the introduction to what I want to develop tonight. Clear says something very interesting. You have all of these um resham saying becoming a nazer is a horrible thing gives you these gifts you should enjoy them. You have all these tam saying it's a wonderful thing and the ram himself is is is in one place he says a absolutely not b in one place he says b and absolutely not a and even if you want to be pluralistic it he's sort of v >> in each place he's dismissive of the it it doesn't really make sense you could be pluralistic it doesn't make sense so what does the kaka do brings it all together and he says um it matters who you are and it matters who your needs are He says, "Your typical Joe who isn't challenged shouldn't push the envelope further. If you're healthy and balanced and and and and you can and you're not drawn to its alcoholism and you don't do, you know, you don't do bad things when you drink and you don't overdrink, then don't create additional prohibitions." You know, when you create additional prohibitions, you you know, it it it it and it's very interesting. You should know it. It plays a role. You know sometimes you know you overdo something you make it actually more attractive. You know there's there's an emphasis on sneez a woman should be su but sometimes you overdo it what you do is you have to you know it becomes you think about negating it so much that all you're doing is thinking about it. It becomes a little bit of a problem right >> when I stop smoking I gain weight. Okay. >> I mean, you know, one, >> right? When I was young, little kids, 10 year olds, 5-year-olds, we drank schnops. We had we we dr father gave us little >> a little bit. Right. >> And nobody had any issues with with drinking. It was not, >> right? So, everybody, you can't, you can't, you can't. Yeah. And then you have all these, >> right? Right. I'm I'm just So, so there are those. So, what the kucker says is you have to know who you are. If a person's ruined to his alcoholism, then don't drink at all. If a person knows that he acts inappropriately with women, be very careful. If a person knows that he's he's, you know, he goes into certain areas of the city, he's likely to do something he really shouldn't be proud of, then don't. But if you know that you're your moral compass is solid and you're okay doesn't ban wine, don't ban wine. And by by creating an extra prohibition, you start thinking about it. And when you start thinking about it, you actually make the problem bigger because in your mind, it becomes a boogeyman. It's not a boogeyman. You're not challenged by wine. Um, so you're not challenged by wine. So the kyaka says it it's painted as an argument, but both points are true for some. I don't know that it's so easy to read in the gamarra. The garbara paints it as an argument. I don't know that it's so easy to read into the ram because the ram in one place is one thing lauk the other and the other is not true. But he says if you alcohol is not problem the same. >> You have to know who you are. If you're someone who is drawn to its alcoholism, if you're someone who when he drinks um speaks badly, does inappropriate things, don't. If you know that you have self-control and you're not allowed to do anything about it, then it's not a problem. And again, by making it a problem, it becomes a bigger problem. >> I and I that's a my little bit of anecdotal experience. Making things too big of a deal actually makes makes it makes it more likely that you'll cross the line because it's just what you think about what you focus on this this this. So that's the clea's way of reconciling the Rambams, reconciling the maybe I mean it's it's an attempt okay he says I mean what's going on which which approach is right which approach is not right so the cleer says third Um um he says if the guy would be a really good guy, he wouldn't need this. A really good guy shouldn't get involved in this. He's getting involved in this because he has to get involved in this. And for him, it's right, but at the end of the day, it's because he's not a good guy. So, he's trying to bring it all together. Why am I bringing this in? This is I don't think this is so novel to you. These are discussions you may have had. I think an idea that I'm >> a guy or he's a sinner. >> He's a sinner. Right. I would say he's not a guy. He he'll be a good guy sinner. And so that's why he needs >> that's why he needs it. And so there's right so there's the two personalities. Nazerus is good for one because he needs it. Nazerus is not good for the other because he doesn't need it. And by adding restrictions when he doesn't need restrictions. He's creating problems. He's creating prohibitions that don't exist. He's creating he's going to start thinking about things that he wasn't thinking about and that will increase. >> Yeah. I don't remember the line but it was it was it was some writer talking about some senior book. You have to be careful about not about not thinking about women so much that all you do is think about women. Something along those lines. >> I remember as a kid there was a story about >> sneez this has become a little bit of an issue. >> There was some rabbi that he was trying to refrain from talking bad and from saying wise and all that. So he locked himself up in the shed and he learned all day for days and that's all he was connected with. There was a knock in the door >> and this man is knocked in the middle of the learning disturbed him. He opened the door goes what do you want? He goes you have an axe. He's like no I didn't have an axe. And the as they turned around there was an X right in the corner. They realized they lied. So come to realize that no you can't hide in the corner and and lack of self and not do anything. >> You have to work on yourself. Don't lie. Don't speak much harder. >> Right. Right. Right. You have to Okay. So that really is introduction. Now once you have that that you realize that nazerus makes sense for some people, it doesn't make sense to other people. It's a response to needs. those needs can shift. Here I want to raise something that I think is novel >> before you before going just a question about about the zerus. Why does the hair fall anyway? Do you understand? >> So two readings. One is is that if you grow your hair, you're going to be less attractive because there's no shampoo. You couldn't groom it. >> Um and again the issue then and I think that might have been more of an issue then. I think we live with such a a broad array of potential sins. Um it's like well you know you live in a casino now. There's um there's every possible imaginable sin today. I think there were fewer sins then because um you couldn't go online and cheat somebody and there were so I I think you know a lot of the sinning then involved inappropriate relationships maybe because there was less to do. I don't know I'm just saying you know every that seems to be the >> everything leads to to Girias. >> Right. So I I I I I think in in the rich multiaceted lives we have today there are so many more potential sins. There's such a broad array of exciting aas out there. Um but then agile rice I mean gillice is still up there. It still you know it still draws people but gillice seems to be the end all be all. That's the aa and people who are attractive are more prone to that. Maybe because you know they're attractive to other people. Maybe because in their minds they're attractive and that seems to be the thinking. So it goes in two directions. One would be that growing your hair makes you less attractive because um you can't groom it. There was no shampoo. The other is is because a nuzzer at the end of his period of nazirus would have to shave off all his hair and then he would become unattractive. We actually learned during the week I mentioned I have no base for this and I'll say something that is that that no one discusses and and it might it I I I it's probably incorrect but it's intriguing. Um what is the most famous story about Nazirus? But in Kazal um >> the young man, >> right? The young man who looked into the >> the river, he saw himself, >> right? And and he was so drawn. He found himself attractive. He said, "I'm going to become a Nazer and this way I'll have to cut if my hair won't be attractive." Right? So what's it's a story of a young man looking to river saying, "I'm so attractive. It's going to be a problem." And he becomes a nuzzer and he cuts his hair off. Does anyone know Does anyone know of a Greek story that is the existence? >> Maybe it's right. Does anyone know of a Greek story that's the exact same story? >> Narcissist. >> The story of narcissist. What's the story of narcissist? >> Right. Right. The story of narcissist. Wow. >> Right. The story of narcissist is is that narcissist god looked into the water. He found himself so attractive he couldn't draw himself away from the water. and he was so drawn in that he kept looking and looking and looking and that he died maybe by drowning, falling into the water, maybe by starving, but but it it's and it's of course the basis for a narcissist, someone who was who's focused on himself too too much. Now narcissist is a Greek word that has nothing to do with Nazer. I think I checked online. Narcissist is there's a flower naris. It doesn't seem, you know, Greek and Hebrew were really separate paths. And the Greek word naris or narcissis is, you know, goes way back, doesn't seem to have developed from Hebrew, but the story might have been, the story might have been borrowed one from another. We have the world of Nazerus. They have the world of narcissists. There are similar words. So maybe by the time Khazal wrote down the story, Greek fables made their way into Kazal. So so many Greek fables the stories about >> the opposite though the nazer is so not into how he looks or how he >> so so there's two lines among the rishonum that the nazer is I mean he's supposed to um not look good and that's either by growing his hair he'll be he'll kill him or or at the end of his term of nazerus he has to cut his hair >> so that would be exactly like the story of narcissist who thought he was so but um Stewart his his curls are all set up so it's sort of a similar story I'm digressing far right. All I wanted to share is is that the story of Nazirus is a story of um responding to needs. Some people need to be an Azer and for them it's good. Some people don't need to be in user and for them it's not good which means it's responding to needs. Here I want to share an idea not my idea um um developed by Zev Yates. He's um underappreciated. He's quoted sometimes in some of the writers in Israel those who came out of Germany in the 30s we'll call him binikra he was um he was in Israel at early 20th century um from obviously but you know modernist thinking um academic that type of thinking um and he did his research and he says what was going on in ancient Cananan when we came to Cananan like how did people worship their gods It was about human sacrifice. That was the norm, right? Child sacrifice was the norm. It it permeated all of ancient Canaanite culture. And it made its way into our world. Um there's endless documentation of child sacrifice in Israel. They find vaults, they find tombs, children, um twins especially. But there's no question. And Kazal, you know, share the stories all the time. And there are some explicit. The Torah is explicit. What is moolik? Moolik is child sacrifice, right? That's what it is. Well, what was child sacrifice? Does it seem so absurd to them? It was the norm, right? And when you're accustomed to something, you do it without thinking twice and you think it's the right thing. It was so Ler, it was so normal. >> It's disturbing just to think about it, >> right? But but when you're used to it, you know what you should do? Um I'm going to read. You should know when I went >> did it to save other >> and they believed it. They believed that you maintaining. You must read Allah. You must read. You know, we there is um this isn't kind just a little >> I feel like stabbing the person who's doing it. >> You must read a lesser. There is a short story that I read in high school. Um it was throw it to me like prescribed reading. Um it was it's called The Lottery by Shirley Jackson. >> Does that ring a bell for anyone here? >> It It's three pages for I don't want to ruin it by by by sharing Read it. Am I correct? >> Um I'll ruin it. Um it it it it talks about You read the lottery. Does it ring a bell? Uh um it it I'll ruin it by I'm sure it's available on but I'll just ruin it by sharing it. Right. I don't but it talks about it sounds like an American suburban town the 1950s. Everyone's getting together for the picnic they have every Memorial Day and just like happy families getting together and having a picnic and and having a lottery. Read the story. Um it right. Um and it it'll it >> and that happens. >> You got to read the story. I I I'll ruin it, but it just points what you're accustomed to is the norm. And and and and you you'll never question it because it's the norm. And the truth is every group lives with that. That's why I I think it's so good to live. >> You don't have Hashem in your life. >> But these people believe they had God in their lives. Remember, it's very dangerous. >> The God, the one only God, >> they they every everyone is their God. So that's why you need to work with something moral within. Because when people just have a religion without using common sense, without using some type of innate morality, you just go bad places because you just listen. You just listen. So, um you got um I don't want to ruin the story. It what is it? Four, five pages. It's but you're accustomed to it. Humans you human sacrifice was no and it was practiced in our world. Um >> right. It'll take you 10 minutes. Right. How long is it? I I haven't read it in decades, but you're right. >> What? >> Yeah. Short story. >> A short story. Um and it was practiced now was a king. Yif was was >> what >> a right? Which is sort of like a king, right? All you had was No, you're right. But there were no malikim yet. Now it now the Pik tells you that sacrificed his daughter. So there's different approaches. Some say he didn't actually sacrifice her. Many say he actually sacrificed his daughter because he thought it was the right thing to do. >> Abraham and Abra was ready. So that we discussed actually we give a that that actually is the something I'm passionate about. I wherever I go I I I think it needs to be discussed. I think it's important to offer at least another approach because the idea of being ready to sacrifice um right is that God actually told >> but everyone says God tells them to see what see the problem there is that everyone says that God tells them to and when you grow up in your community there's tens of thousands of religions everyone has a great leader on top who says God told us and so when people just follow what they say God tell them how do you know that this is really God. It gets very hard. That's why the aada needs and we did we discuss the we discussed the there were different vantage points on the aa but human sacrifice and at least according to many opinions actually sacrificed his daughter. He was a trophy. I mean you're right he wasn't the king. I used the term king cuz that's what the kings were. There were no kings yet. And he was meant to be respected. He was a leader and he's killing his own daughter because he felt that it was the right thing to do. And it's not the only reading. Um some say he didn't actually sacrifice her but if he didn't sacrifice her what do they say he locked her up in a nunnery and he didn't allow her to marry that itself was since when does the father right to do that to his daughter. So, so and you know it's not just odd opinions. The you know the are sometimes you know unfettered by modern concerns are all careful because you know the living with the escala even the malam and who's battling um assimilation and reform and is trying to be very traditional. Even the mal look at the mal verse 20 he did to his daughter what he had promised to do which was sacrifice daughter and she never knew a man. There's actually two ways to translate. One would be the the promise was was that he would lock her up in an she would never marry. The other was that he killed her before she had a chance to marry. >> What was the method of promise? >> I I don't think it says yeah they would burn them. His first opinion is that she never married somebody that he prevented her from marrying that he locked her up and preceded her from that. But then he says that he brought her up as a as a corbin. So there is such a line of thinking and he's our leader about him. We say now how could this be? But when you're surrounded by um pagan society where people really really believe maybe it permeates. Okay. But but this is not this not and and look look at the pukum. >> So it's not clear. It was definitely >> isolated he also like >> right so some say that he isolated more on the outside he also get influenced like >> right right so it's not clear what he did but you have normal prominent authorities that are that are mus that aren't on the fringe that aren't out of the box who say that he killed his daughter because he felt that it was the right thing to do because they had gone to battle and he made a promise when they went into battle that when if I come home from battle >> his name was >> yifak so this was from Jew. This was a fate like he he was and >> he was like that means he was our leader has small kids. I can't >> right. I'm not. So how could this be? But again, you're surrounded by influence and you're pressured and you really believe that if you you keep your word, then the rest of the community will be saved. You know, let's say there's a ship that's going to sink and let's say there's a ship with a thousand people in it and one of them has a terrible disease and he's going to die and he's going to kill everybody. You're all going to die. If you kill that person, you save everybody else. >> You're not allowed to kill him. >> You're still not Well, if he's a if he's a rodeave, maybe you're allowed. Right. So, it gets very Right. Right. Right. So I'm not I'm not saying that he's right, but I'm just saying you have authority saying that he did it and not I'm not going and I'm not even going to because weren't concerned about because no one was leaving the fold right were very concerned about are much more conservative than I think we sort of get you know the older ones are the new ones but the new ones they're afraid it's after 1800 there's enlightenment there's a scholar there's reform there's intermarriage so we're very careful now learning today is much more black and white than it was 600 years ago because we're afraid for good rightly or wrongly the Mal was an Akran he was so afraid I mean he was spent his life fighting reform reform put him in jail um he was he was and he writes this he says this is what Kazal's thinking was that he actually sacrificed his daughter so this is our leader now the isn't clear um the tells you go back to 60 I brought them and the truth is in many so much and I understand why you know there's something it'll be an to Hashem. Now he wasn't dreaming that it would be a person. He thought it would be an animal. Okay. Um because people lived in compounds together with with their animals. So he thought that you know when he approaches his house the first animal that comes out of his door he would offer as a sacrifice the schnitle. There's um um um okay um we're talking about child sacrifice so you know okay we're not going to shine don't you worry what okay so um and she's an only child and he and and and and then he comes back from battle and his daughter comes out he didn't dream it would be his daughter and and and she tells him his daughter tells him you promised to to to do this do what you promised and then it tells you >> daughter >> yeah because she felt that she was saving the So people believed it and so the P isn't explicit. It says he gave her time and then it says and he he performed this and she didn't know anybody. Now it could be the nether was that he lacked her in she couldn't mar but even that you don't have a right to do that to your child. You can't um prevent your child from marrying anybody. So even that's very difficult but the idea that he sacrifices is more difficult yet. So is the natural human instinct to sacrifice your comfort for the well-being of your child? >> Of course. >> So how >> and that's that was and there were people who committed suicide because they believe they were honoring God. >> That's cuz they weren't right in the head. >> Oh maybe they were educated to do that. You know they can make you not write and then you can be educated that way. I took out a book from my mother. I my elderly I I my elderly mother living with me. She's 94. And you should I began going to the library to take out books for her. not such a big reader. I I just don't so I I she reads voraciously. I took out a book on on um Germany in 1945. Tens of thousands of Germans committed suicide because the fur is gone. No reason to live. There was mass suicides all the I didn't know that Germans regular Germans Nazi leaders not people who afraid that they would be indicted but regular Germans who couldn't imagine living without the >> should have convinced all his followers. >> Right. Right. So I'm just saying how could this be? They grew up in a you grow up in her medically sailed bubble. So they Yeah. I I I didn't know that. Mass suicides all across Germany. >> Well, how about compare? And I don't know exactly the details, but the bubich thing that's what happened when the rapper died. They didn't know how to go on. So they had to come back that he's really alive because otherwise they're not a function. Okay. I remember my wife worked for Labavich then and I had and is that during this period of the show you know what arose there was a there's that has no basis in I can choose to become a nazer I cannot make a nether for my son I can't turn my son into the nazer nowhere in the tower is there such a thing mentioned and you don't have a right to do it I can't deprive you or lock you into any situation morally. I can't make choices for you. But suddenly during the period of the chauffeim there's a and there's a a a whole wave of child nerim >> like shimsh like where is this coming from? It's not >> the parents. I think we're in >> and it's Shimsh is byeshuakadesh tells his parents mother more than you're going to have a child who's going to lead the community. He is going to be a nazer. That means Baru is instituting the idea of childhood nazerus and kana did the same >> right. But why did tell us then but it wasn't part of the original mountain Torah. There was a change that occurred during that period. It wasn't there early on. And the truth is it doesn't make sense. >> Gives a person an option, right? You make another >> for yourself. But you can't make another for your child. You can't deprive your child. >> Right? So there's no such um um reality and suddenly during the period of the chaim changes things builds child into the community and you see is one example and you see is another the driving forces is held in tremendously high esteem which he does seems to be correct comes straight from why is this happening then so what is this to counter when something is happening at a certain point. It's happening for a reason, right? Why is this happening then? Why is why is the community embracing child nazerus then? Because what was happening in other sections of the community? What were people doing? They were sacrificing their children. Human sacrifice was the norm. How do you break that? How do you stop that? It's pervasive. Everyone's doing it. Yak did it. Yif sacrificed his daughter. So he didn't kill her. We locked up in an also a form of sacrifice. How do you break a bad habit when you can't break it? >> You offer something that's not as extreme which is similar that lets people vent this impulse but without doing tremendous damage. So people were sacrificing their children and there was no way to stop it. Our leader sacrificed his daughter and he was a great man didn't sacrifice who instituted child. Look, you're still consecrating your child. You're doing the same thing, but it's not as damaging. That's look at his idea here. Um um told he was a story in 11 top of page two. Um the last child sacrifice would become pervasive, would become the norm. And so they instituted this idea that if you want to be Magnus your child, you have an option. Grow the child's hair. Don't let the child drink wine, but don't kill the child. You offering a way of child sacrifice that isn't a full ch child sacrifice. It's a way of addressing. I'll shift um discussions completely. You know, we made our way through Vayikra. But there's a raging two different approaches on Corbin. There's the Ramban who views it as something positive, as something that's very good. The Ram says clearly absolutely in the Mora the exact opposite in the contradicts himself but in the Mori says it it's really not such a good thing but people were accustomed to bring animal sacrifices what are you going to do how you going to stop it if you don't allow it they're going to do it anyway so allow animal sacrifice says people were sacrificing humans allow animal sacrifice either you know when people do things and you can't stop it or for a second option um carbon is very controversial for sure and you know and it needs a lot of discussion. It's far from simple here in a way it's not so controversial because out of the blue there's no historic precedent. It's not luckily sound. You have people consecrating their children's when they don't have the right to do it. Why are they doing why why are they doing it? Because if they wouldn't have done this they would have killed their children. And so instituted this by speaking to Shimchun's parents. He became a role model and others did the same but they weren't killing their children anymore. They were letting their hair grow. Idea duour not really a controversial idea. I'm not >> No. No. No. >> I'm very defensive. I'm not saying it's my idea. I'm just number it's it's um 11, >> right? You have to understand, Brett. I mean, it's a transition. For 25 years, I wasn't taped. >> Not taped. So, this is, you know, it's a segue. Maybe a year of this, you know, we will um >> you'll realize you'll learn by listening to the tapes. >> But they do. I know that. I know them from my old life. They do. >> Yeah.