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Challenging conspiracies about the US-Israel Relationship
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Interview by RTN Broadcasting at Amfest 2025
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This is Vincent with RTN Broadcasting. I
have Ami Horowitz here. One of the
biggest questions that I have is
presently the US-Israeli relationship
when I look at demographics
the younger the generations are, the
lower the support is for US-Israeli
relationship. I'm curious to know why
that is. Why is it that like the baby
boomers
significantly higher numbers in their in
their support for Israel. Why is it that
the younger generations are increasingly
not as supportive?
I think it's less about what Israel's
doing and the American Israel
relationship at all and then rather what
they're not doing for their own selves
and their own lives. And remember,
you're raising a generation where you're
told as a young white male disaffected,
you're the worst person on the planet.
Some of them are owning that label and
saying, "Fine, I'll be the bad guy. I'll
play into this group identity politics."
Jordan Peterson warned about this years
ago saying, "You know, if you keep
playing this bloody game on the left,
you know, you're going to get a rise in
the identitarian right." You know, and
that's what's going to happen. And it's
not pretty. It's not. And it's not
pretty. I will also say that That was a
really good impression of Jordan
Peterson. I like it.
>> Not my first time. When you brand
yourself as going against the grain
years ago in the
in the sort of rise and excess of woke
leftism which dominated the culture at
every level from media, academia,
entertainment how do you go against the
grain? You go to Young Americans for
Freedom, Turning Point and you become a
traditional conservative. Low taxes,
perhaps you're pro-life, you're
pro-American. That's enough. And then
you're against the grain and you're part
of the counterculture and that feels
good and that gives you an orientation.
What happens when those things are
victorious? All of this idea
in their victory post-2024, you need an
orientation now go against the grain.
Grain, feel like you're part of a new
edgy rebellious community. So, what's
the new thing to play with? The
heterodox. You can't go left. So, you go
further and further right.
Anti-Semitism, anti-Israel. And it's not
just anti-foreign aid to Israel, but we
wish Israel well. No, Israel well, it's
uh
Israel's controlling our government.
They're co-opting. They're
uh
nefarious and sneaky behind the scenes
pulling the strings. As if a country of
what, 8 million people is controlling a
country of 300 some odd million people,
the most powerful country in the world
is being controlled by the tiniest state
of New Jersey, the size of New Jersey. I
don't think so. But they're not thinking
about it that deeply. And of course,
they are not fans of radical Islam and
jihadism. That's what Israel is
fighting, and for some reason they get
that confused because I think you got to
go against the grain, and that's the new
grain. Now, what's unique to me is that
when you look at the history of the
state of Israel, when you look at
especially the CIA as it was introduced,
so we saw with the JFK documents that
were released back in January of 2025,
we see a lot of connections between the
CIA and Israel.
And we see that the head of the CIA at
the time, Sydney Gottlieb,
his direct liaison was with Israeli
intelligence, and a lot of the
redactions in those documents were
specifically citing the Israeli
intelligence assets. So, to me, that's a
little bit of a concern. Why is it that
Why is it that the CIA was so heavily
redacting for many, many years their
direct connection to Israeli
intelligence? And now, in 2025, what is
that, 60, 80 years later, we're finally
getting some disclosure that this that
not only did the CIA have direct
correspondence with Israeli
intelligence, but the information went
directly to the head of the CIA and only
the head of the CIA. He was the direct
liaison for it, and it went to nobody
else.
I'll, for the sake of argument, assume
what you're saying is accurate. I'm not
sure. I don't follow it at that level,
but to what extent do you think that
that's unusual? That intelligence
agencies that work behind the scenes,
rather secretly by nature, don't operate
in all those sorts of ways.
So, If asking me? I'm I'm saying why why
would you think that's unusual
necessarily? Cuz it's not necessarily
unusual.
MI6, the United States, I'm sure there's
decades of secret correspondence and
redactions for the sake of national
security that you can find amongst all
sorts of Western intelligence agencies.
That's not unique to Mossad, Israel, or
the US. I think it's unique to see
mainly because for many, many years
there was a lot of speculation,
especially regarding the JFK
assassination. There was a lot of
speculation that there was some
involvement by the Israeli government.
>> Like, you know, of course there's the
far right out there that might say, "Oh,
it was the Jews that did it. It was
Israel." But there was a lot of
speculation that there was some hand in
that assassination with JFK. And like I
say, back 2025, January, we finally get
the disclosure that that there was a
little bit of intelligence shared
between the governments and that Israel
had a little bit of a part in it. I
there I can actually show you the CIA
documents
which I generally cannot. Yeah. But
there was there was correspondence
between them. Not only correspondence,
but there are even some citations that
specifically, and I'm going to directly
quote one of the citations, specifically
says Israel is no good, Israel's not to
be trusted. So that is a really unique
thing to keep redacted for 80 years and
finally show on a declassified CIA
document.
>> said that about Israel, too. He had his
frustrations. Trump has said [ __ ] about
Bibi all the time. He's like, "You they
don't know what the [ __ ] they're doing."
He said that all the time.
World leaders have frustrations with
each other all the time at all that
level. And if you have a conclusion and
you're looking to find evidence to
support a conclusion, that's not the way
we get to the truth. You look for
evidence that finally supports a
conclusion. But if you have a
preconceived conclusion, like, "I need
to make sure Israel's culpable in the
JFK assassination," then everything's
going to look like a clue. And I just
don't think that's a rational way to do
a any kind of investigation.
>> And the way one thing that I know a lot
of the younger generation gets really
concerned about, they get really
concerned about the USS Liberty
incident. Of course, that was 60-plus
years ago.
>> Right.
And one thing that concerned me what
what Shapiro said, Shapiro said that was
a long time ago, why does it matter?
>> Mhm.
Why are we so dismissive about such a
significant historical event? Oh,
Shapiro answered the question. He wasn't
dismissive about the event. He was
clarifying that its relevance to the
current US-Israel relationship is very,
very minimal, which is true. Just like
our relationship with Britain in the
Revolutionary War and the war and World
War or Vietnam is very different than it
is today. You know that Israel has
friendly fire incidents on its own
soldiers all the time. Soldiers get
killed in accidental uh
accidental practices when they're doing
things. There's a term for that,
blue-on-blue. Yeah, military term? Yeah,
military term. Blue-on-blue.
>> Well, it happens all the time, but
somehow when it happens involving Israel
and America, it's this unique crazy
conspiracy out to make Israel look like
the villain. And what's different about
Israel than any of these other
scenarios? Cuz the motivation in asking
that question isn't oftentimes pure
intellectual curiosity.
>> Right, the framing of the question. The
whole topic. Mhm. There's a nefarious
intention there, and I think we both can
agree on that if we're being honest. To
bring up Are Are you saying Are you
saying from me or from that question
from that person?
>> and that person. In the culture.
Who's bringing up that question? Dan
Bilzerian? Jake Shields? Mhm. Myron
Gaines? Do they have good intentions?
Does Nick Fuentes have good intentions?
I don't think so. And so when you say
when you say
>> is from is because of their behavior,
not Zionist behavior. And to clarify on
the USS Liberty, we can we can talk
about any historical subject of any
kind. But be honest with yourself, are
are the people asking that question
continually? Do they have good
intentions?
And is it all is it all in
So that
>> And so the suspicion gets arisen from
anyone who's curious, which is unfair.
It You can talk about anything, and I
think Ben answered the question that
oftentimes in the fog of war, allies
make mistakes against each other,
against their own country. Um and there
were no-go zones in that uh in the area
where this incident took place. And
Israel went It's very easy, and
hindsight's 20/20. What if it was a
secretly an Egyptian from land secretly
flying an American flag that began
attacking and killing Israelis? So, it's
very easy to judge in hindsight in the
fog of war. Douglas Murray said on the
Joe Rogan podcast, right? He's like uh
um
it's like when you look back in history,
it's like in the fog of war when you
look back, there is no fog. You only see
the path that you took. So, in the fog
of war, looking back hindsight, it's,
you know, you don't see you don't see
the fog, you only see the line you took.
In the social media sphere, I've seen a
unique anomaly. I I don't know if it's
come up within the past year, maybe past
2 years. But uh Laura Loomer as example
>> Okay. has brought up influence from
Qatar. Okay.
I don't quite understand what this is
going on about, but it almost seems like
it's a direct counter to certain people
that are saying that there's Israeli
influence in the United States
government. Somebody like Laura Loomer
comes out and says, "Oh, look at, you
know, Tucker Carlson." And he he's
funded by Qatar. Why is there this
battle, it seems like back and forth
between who's pulling the strings? It
seems like on one end you have people
saying that the nation of Qatar is
pulling the strings. On on the other
side you have people saying it's Israel.
Why is there this dichotomy going on? I
think it's less relevant why there's a
dichotomy of sorts. The question is
what's true? Now, it's certainly true
that Qatar, Iran have funded think tanks
in Washington in the United States that
have turned all the universities into
radical left bastions that have
radicalized students to hate the West.
Because if you can't defeat your enemies
militarily, what can you do? You can
turn your enemies against each other.
And that's what they've been doing, and
it's actually pretty precise and pretty
easy to see. You can demonstrate it.
Think tanks uh that get funded by these
foreign adversaries to push ideas out
into the universities, into the Middle
Eastern Studies departments, far left
radicals that all of a sudden come out
stumping for Hamas. Where did this all
come from? It came from that. As far as
the online space goes,
there has clearly been an infiltration
of bought accounts that uh say dissident
media or America First or MAGA or some
hot chick in a with a cleavage and a
MAGA hat, and it's based in Bangladesh
and Pakistan. Yeah. That's the truth of
what's going on. Is Tucker funded by
Qatar? I don't know. I don't have
substantial evidence to claim that. I
don't think he needs the money. But his
messages that are demoralizing and
confusing certainly get amplified. And
then you have this effect where a video
seemingly goes viral because of
uh
inorganic, manufactured virality. And
then people see it and say, "Wow, there
must be something here." There's an
effort to do that. So, I just don't want
people to be manipulated and
propagandized. Uh I I On the Israel
side,
where's the distortion coming from? The
fact is the standard has always been
that Israel and America have been
aligned to fight for Western values and
principles. You'd much rather live in
Tel Aviv than in Syria
with the values that you have. And so,
people who are supporting Israel already
support Israel. There's no There's no
pro-Palestinians getting getting
manipulated to change their mind.
>> Yeah. And so, any effort to do that
online is fighting because of values
they already pre-supported. The
departure from that is what's been going
on now. The departure, the distortion,
the all of a sudden wedge issue is
somehow on the right not supporting a
bastion of Western democracy and
liberalism in the West to fight radical
Islamic terrorism. I can't see how on
the right that makes sense at all. I see
why it makes sense on the left. They
have the same enemy, the United States
and the West. The left's got no love for
the West or the US. But on the right,
they're supposed to. Pro-military,
pro-freedom, pro-liberty, pro- anti- uh
radical Islamic terrorism. I thought
that's what we were about. So, that's
why it's been confusing. So, out of
respect for your time, last question
that I have for you. Yeah. If you were
to speak directly to the younger
generation, and like we discussed, it's
already like lowest point of support for
Israel-US Yeah. There's there's a huge
divide between the generations. So, if
you can speak directly to them, give
them your best pitch for why they should
support this relationship that's been
long-standing for many decades.
Okay, support is an interesting word.
There's different kinds of support. You
don't have to say America must be the
sugar daddy of Israel. There are are
staunch Zionists historically that are
totally against foreign aid. Because
foreign aid actually compromises
Israel's security too in certain ways.
It makes them entangled. [music] The
fact that the entire north of Israel and
its civilian population had to be
evacuated when Hezbollah was firing
rockets, they couldn't move back in for
11 months. Why?
My sources and the people I talked to
who serve in the military in Israel,
the reason they weren't allowed to is
because there's an aircraft carrier, a
US aircraft carrier under the Biden
administration that said, "We will not
give you the go ahead to retaliate." So,
the fact that America controls So, how
does this answer the question? Because
you're allowed to have certain positions
when it comes to foreign aid and apply
that equally across the board. If you
just focus on Israel, and that's the
only one that bothers you and gives you
a a sting, then there's something
strange about your selective outrage.
But, you're allowed to hold positions
about foreign aid, it doesn't make you
anti-Semitic. There's a difference
between ignorance, curiosity, and hate.
Um don't confuse the two, and just
remember, it's the actual hateful
nefarious actors on the far right
fringes that are anti-Western and
anti-American, and they make the
conversation for you being curious much
harder than any Zionist Jew or any
Zionist Christian. Those are the people
that will engage with you honestly. It's
these folks on the call it the far
right. I don't even call them that
because they're not to the right.
They're not pro-Western, not
pro-American, they're anti, and they
make that conversation much, much harder
to have, the honest ones like we just
did.
Thank you, my friend. Pleasure to meet
you.
>> Yes, you too.