CHAZARAH - Chullin Daf 113 | "Nothing but the Daf" with R' Eli Stefansky

[music] Good morning. Welcome. Welcome to all the guests. Today we're going to discuss how you salt the meat. And interesting, we have two classic sugas smack in middle class. I mean that if you do, if you learn enough dafomi, you should know these suggest kind of by heart. I'll give you an example of one of them. The says, "Oh, you can't learn out of this." Why? Because it's two. So, what's the next question? But if you hold, what do you do? It's always the same. Okay. four lines from the top or six lines from the bottom. Any way you want to look at it. If you take fish and you take chicken and you do they are what's they are interesting they is referring only to the fish not so much to the chicken. Chicken is not. But here's the issue. fish you could eat their you could eat the blood chicken not but if you sold them together we're concerned that the that the blood of the chicken will go into the fish and that's also but what's the case as we're going to see soon in order to do you have to use a vessel that has holes on the bottom series. So if you don't have holes in the bottom, then the blood goes out of one, goes into the other one. And yes, this one is rejecting the blood. It's expelling the blood, but the other one is going to inhale it. It's going to take it in. So if it has holes in the bottom, so what's the problem? As blood comes out of the bird, it drips right out of the cle and it doesn't have a chance to go into the fish. Says, "Yes, it's talking about the right cle. It has holes in it." The dog the fish have a very thin membrane. So they're very easy for the blood to come out and therefore very easy for it expels everything and therefore it's able to >> absorb the blood of the fish. But the birds are are are tougher after the fish is done expelling whatever it needs to expel. We're going to see soon. It has to be done expelling everything. Then the birds start expelling. So therefore there's a difference in timing and therefore the fish has a chance to absorb the blood coming out of the chicken. So the very important TIS here that all the discuss which we have to use a few times to understand. So he says like this is typhus. It's in the giant tus. If you want you can look inside but it's kind of hard to find the man. It's it's highlighted here where it is in the actual tus. So if you want to see it in the look over there where the box is listen to what says there's two things going on here the chicken expels the blood but then it also expels the the watery substance in the chicken. As long as it's expelling something then it doesn't have the opportunity to absorb anything. And that expelling of mayel takes a very long time. Some say like 18 hours, 20 hours. But here's the question. And this kind of explains why you're allowed to do malik with a few pieces of meat together. Let's say one expels, it takes an hour to expel the blood. So how do you put another piece of meat in there? The other one you put in 3 minutes later and he's a minute 10 63 minutes later he's expelling blood and the other one is going to start taking it in. The answer is cuz yes. piece number one expelled all the blood, but it's continuing to expel waters. And as long as it's expelling something else, it doesn't have the opportunity to to to absorb the the blood. He says the time it takes for to expel the water, it takes a long time for the waters to be done. Okay, fine. That's that. So when we know that you saw it that could answer some of the other stuff again this throughout who's Rahari who's his f who's his father-in-law or who's his grandfather you should say >> why is his name only only person that is name is named after his mother [clears throat] because his father his name was >> his father captured his mother as a guy and his mother got pregnant with him when his father was still a guy. Later on this guy decided to do chuva or whatever became a g and married his mother and his father-in-law was the famous [clears throat] so we don't want to name him he beca he became a very person grandson of of his father's when he was born his father's already g but we don't want to talk about it we don't say oh So he once had a story where in the same bowl he had shed meat kosher meat and meat also. He went to ask the question to what was the question? What's the shila? If you have two pieces of meat that are both kosher and they both expel blood, is there a problem? No. Why not? They don't absorb from each other. >> They don't absorb from each other. Why? >> Oh, cuz I just said tas. They don't absorb from each other. They're they're both busy expelling stuff. Now, one might be expelling water, the other expelling blood, but they don't absorb. So, what's the sh over here? The shil over here is maybe it'll absorb the water. The water from the trafe will go into the kosher one and make a tra. And maybe water it does absorb. Blood is thicker. Blood is thicker than water. So that's the question. Maybe the water the water is going to be absorbed by the the meat. He says yes. It's a problem. It's a massive problem says. Check this out. We have the new ones new and improved. Beautiful stuff. Says the It says the word by the hey. What do we learn from lesser? We see that by the water the juice of an of a of a of this guy right over here is how do I know I need a you think maybe just a piece of meat is how do I know the juice? This is all the small parts. The is more of the the gravy. I guess the little pieces you see that the by also by the juices are going to be you got to be concerned by that which they they discuss and it should bother everybody talk about it. It doesn't address the question. The question was more we know. Okay. So you tell me the juice is a but the question was does it absorb the juice? That we didn't really address. We said okay the juice of iser and then and it it might be a big for us cuz maybe if I would have asked is the juice of a traer could it has enough power in it to trafe up another piece of meat and the answer is yes but how do you see from here that it absorbs it? Okay, but perhaps why does jump to this to the There's another concern here. What are we doing? We're talking about we're talking about salting an animal. I'm going to show you the whole process in a second. Here, a new and improved version. I just asked Yoshi to add some stuff to it to to give it a little bit of a visual. If you put salt on something or let meat it's as if it's as if it's cooking, it's as if it's they're both as if they're cooking. There's smoke coming out of it. Not literally. There's no smoke that comes out of meat when you put salt on it, but it's as if it's as if it's boiling. In other words, it has the same characteristics as a boiling piece of meat that would absorb other things, whatever we needed to. So he says, "You're salting this piece of meat." So it's boiling hot. Boiling hot. It's going to absorb the the glum of whatever the juice. That's okay. Would say that when you put salt on it, it could absorb blood. Maybe it doesn't make iter when they absorb the the the juices. Those are also you take two fish and you salt them salting both of them. Doesn't say anything about one or the other. It says you you salted two fish. One is to one is tar. You take a a tuna with a what's a bad what's a fish that's not no swordfish they say might be t I said sword catfish >> catfish you take catfish and you put it together the tuna motor you're allowed to eat the tuna but what's the problem what happened to the to the juices of the catfish penetrated into the tuna and you see that it's okay and you see that it doesn't absorb absorb the juices. You're allowed to eat it. Says it's not. It doesn't say that you salted both. It says, if you look closely at the words [snorts] the kosher tuna you salted it. It doesn't say it doesn't say plural. You you you salted one. So you salted one out of the two, but it doesn't absorb. There's not nothing coming out of it. It's not pilot that even though there there's some it's a nice to me trafe touching kosher and this one has a lot of salt on it. You think it has it's absorbing and there's some something coming out out of this dead fish with nothing. You never saw a fish like it has a little moisture coming out. No, it's okay. So this is the classic. It's like a freebie almost if you know throughout we have it so many times. Excuse me. Well, you can't answer that because the next case in this bra is exactly this case, right? If the second case in the brace is this case that you only salted one and you didn't salt the tummy one, so you can't tell me that the first case is the same case, why would I repeat the same case twice? Tommy Mloud must be the first case is talking about both assaulted says interesting answer it's one of the classic answers also no there is no second case the second case is just just the the the >> explanation of the first case what's the case only one of them assaulted And you know what? It's not just the it's actually the real because there's no other way to really learn it. Says if the ratio is talking about the extreme case where both of them are salted, nevertheless, we're not concerned about the tray fish in that in that bucket. You're allowed to eat the kosher fish even though both of them are salted. I have to tell you a second case in the if you start out slow and you told me a case that one of them is salted one of them wasn't and then you add another case that even if both them are salted you're allowed to eat it great but you're starting off in the wrong you're starting off with the most extreme case both the fish are salted the tummyy's also salted and then you tell me a lesser case it makes no sense okay that's not a great that's not the Perfect. Sometimes I do say something that's not as a big in at the end to explain the beginning to tell us the big I tell you the big in the beginning but I only know the bigish through the second case. Don't tell me doesn't say how many you you assaulted. So I'm telling you that the don't tell me that the beginning is talking about a case where only one is one is salted the other one isn't. But it would if both of them are sold to be awesome because one absorbs another. Okay, I know what you're thinking. He could have just said it easier by explaining a little bit more. But that's the name. It tells me a case of only one salted. I know at the beginning he's talking about both salted and that's the massive that even though both fish the kosher and the non-coosher are both salted and you think that they absorb one from the other you're allowed to eat them is safer than there's a third case this is the opposite case that only one of the two fish was salted but which one the one was salted then you're not allowed to eat it so you could But if both were salted, no, you can't make that deal. Why? I'm just mimicking the lush of the ra the talks about one fish that salted. Which one is salted? The Now say, one of them is salted. The kids get a no deal. Boy, say yeah. This is the sim over here. Oh, it's super interesting to me. The buser doesn't come out of the blood. Instead of the blood doesn't come out of the buser, okay, the the the meat does not come out of the blood. In other words, you can't get the blood out. What does mean? You have to salt it very very nicely. In other words, every surface area should have salt on it. And after you're done, you must rinse it off very very well. In other words, the salt that's on the meat absorbs. What does it absorb? >> Blood. So you can't have that that that salt on the meat. If you sell it, it's going to have blood on it. So you got to get rid of all the salt. So says you salt and then you rinse. You rinse, salt, rinse. Nobody argues here. Everybody agrees. They have to do three steps. Rinse, salt, rinse. saying a lot of people a lot of people are new to this right they didn't really go to the they don't know how it works over there so we're opening up people's eyes to how it is there are machines like this everything is automated I think the salting part is not automated that you know people put the salt on and but the rest how much time it sits in the machine it has to everything every step has certain there's a timer and then it moves on [cough and clears throat] The question is if the butcher initially or the the first person involved, did he rinse off that off the animal? Think about it for a second. If you have one of those popcorn poppers, no salt poppers, right? Uh, no air, no no oil air popper. Try to put salt on that, right? It doesn't really stick, >> but you give it a gishmak spritz with oil sticks. >> They say that's that's why do you have to do the first either the is that there's a lot of blood on it, so you got to get rid of before you throw a bunch of salt. It's like putting salt on a on a pile of snow. It's not going to work. First, get rid of the snow. Then you put the the salt down on the bottom close to the sidewalk so that whatever is left over there is not You're from South Africa. Have no idea what I'm talking about. [laughter] Yeah. I If you have a ton of salt blood, what are you throwing salt on it? It's not going to do the job. Get rid of the blood, then put the salt and then it'll absorb more blood from within the animal. Another thing is that you need this the salt to adhere to it to stick to it like like salt on popcorn. >> [clears throat and cough] >> Sorry, something's stuck over there. You know what do they call it in America or around the world? >> Kosher salt. Why is it called kosher salt? Even a guy calls it kosher salt. Why? >> Cuz it's used for casing. It's I think throwing it out there. It's the coarse thick salt. And then they would just he would just shake it off cuz they're thick. So you can just shake it off. You take the piece and you shake it off. It's also interesting. The intestines don't contain any blood. I'm going to show you a video. There's no blood. Did you know that if you open up, take a knife to the intestines, you give it a nice cut, no blood will come out. Other interesting stuff might come out in the intestines, but not blood. If you cut other organs, like you cut the the the lung, blood will pop out of the lung. Real blood. Real blood, not the fake stuff. What's the Here we have it. We had at the beginning of the sea has the rectum. It's all the way at the end [clears throat] right before the the waist goes out. There's like fat on it. And the so take a look at this for a second. It's not it's a little gross if you're sensitive to this stuff. >> He's cutting it and no blood comes out. There's no blood there. >> That's a lung. >> Is there a vice fish? Of course. [snorts] >> So, what's the point? The point is that if you're going to eat that fat on the hadar, the kanto, you don't have to you don't have to salt it. There's nothing to salt. There's no blood over there. But if you're going to eat a lung, you have to salt the lung. The vessel must have holes in it so that the blood after it comes out, it has where to drain. The is going to say this is not accurate. But he would salt one piece at a time. He wouldn't let the pieces touch each other. He's concerned what? that the blood is going to come out of one and go into the other. So you take one garma means a bone, one piece with a bone in it, I guess. One piece at a time. That's what they do today. You know, small pieces at a time for the animal, not for a chicken. Why not two? Because the blood comes out of one, goes into the other. Wait a minute. You have a nice piece of meat this big, 200 lb. There's a right and a left. The blood comes out of the right side. goes to the left. I mean, wh why why is why are two pieces if you if you cut it in half and you put one on top of the other? No. No, that's not good. It's one piece. You didn't cut it yet and it's one giant piece that's okay. Why what happened to the blood that comes out of one side is going to drip into the other side. There is no difference. And then we have to go back to Tyus. Why is there no difference? Why is it okay? Because yes, it's it's it finished expelling the blood, but it continues to expel the juices. And as long as it's expelling juice and that that takes a very long time, hours, it doesn't have the opportunity to absorb blood. It's okay. [clears throat] I don't know about in America. I don't I've never seen it in America. Over here, it's very common. When you buy a piece of meat, it says on the on the label contains 20% water. And they tell you on that it's better to freeze like that. It's it's a what if you do something similar with with blood. You you fill the animal with blood. You give him a nice piece of steak. It's full of blood. You're getting you're selling him bogus weight. So there's a great trick how to do it. Right after you the animal, you break its neck and the blood stops flowing to the rest of the animal. We want the to be open and we want him to to to to struggle and make noises and pushes all the blood out. A lot of blood. The more blood comes out, less blood inside the animal. But if you crack its neck, it's here. This part right over here. Yeah. That that that that part that when people the vertebrae, when people in car accidents, they go and they very careful with it. So in other words, you and it's it's still like you're adding weight to the meat. You're stealing from people cuz they aren't aware that it has extra blood and they're paying per pound and you're stealing. You would be stealing obviously if you injected meat with water and you wouldn't tell them. That's also stealing. So just asked a question remains in the what's the what's the point here? Am I telling you that it's I'm also trying to tell you that you shouldn't eat this meat that you yourself have a problem eating it because there's too much blood in it? Yeah. Because you're allowed to eat blood that's stuck in the in the organs that you're allowed to do. But if it's extra, that's a problem. Maybe why? Because a few extra words here. It says three extra words. You absorb blood in the organs. Why am I telling you this? Maybe I'm telling it to you to explain the reason why it's because you just added extra liquid into the organs. Holiday day. But the owner, the guy of Shapi, but but he's stealing the bri but he could eat it. It's a good deal. Maybe the bride is telling us no since it has so much extra blood. That kind of blood is not considered. That's usually that's extra and that's also the reason it's not so accurate because it happens right after the but okay. So this is that we discussed already is chicken also to eat with with milk. You have a table with chicken and milk. You're not over. Says only because you put on the table. You're not over. What if you eat it? You're also not over. No. So you're telling me that eating chicken with milk is a No. And what the mission is trying to tell me is that you'll never even if you try hard and even if you eat it afterwards even if a person by mistake eats the two wouldn't be so says the of so we know there's three what do we learn from the three to eat it the to cook it and the is to from it have any benefit from it. So this applies to kosher meat with kosher milk. It's unbelievable to to to cook just to cook it just to cook. You hear this? You're not doing anything. You're just cooking for fun. But if the meat is to animal with milk of a to of a kosher animal, then it's mut. So we saw oh if it's the wrong then it's a to do of it doesn't apply to deer and to chicken says it three times. So what does learn here we go all three are right here. One is only a goat which is a but not to a like a deer and a bird here. The second one is a bird and the third one and let's say something like a horse. Also there's a connection between it's also to cook it it together maybe let's apply the same to a bird this comes to exclude a bird that doesn't have milk. This is maybe the only thing that makes fun of me because when we're learning this seven and a half years ago, I by mistake said that a chicken is nursing or something crazy something that I wasn't I wasn't mish thinking at the time like I asked the cash like what if the chicken is pregnant something mishuga so he always goes back says you know sometimes like the gumar is not it's like u it's not practical it's not it's like what >> abstract >> it's abstract chicken nursing zak you know Okay. But a chicken is not a mother. It doesn't have milk. So it's not in the how do we know that a gi says gad three times. So maybe the Torah is very serious about being a goat. Maybe should only like we take it for granted. But how do you know? Maybe it's only a goat that you can't cook with its mother's milk. It says gad three times. The is very about it. How do you know it means a cow and a says the goat of the goats? Only but anywhere else in the says the word it means also all behemoth like a cow and a and a sheep. Why don't we just learn from that it means only a goat? There's another where does it say this he came in for the so his mother dressed him with clothing and says so we have a second here's the classic we have two that say the same thing that also it says that it's only means goats. Sorry means also other types of says why didn't we learn from that means just the goat we have once the what's the logic If the Tyra says something once, then you can learn to the rest of the that's called what? But if the Tory says it twice, the Tory is telling you only in these two places, nowhere else. says you could learn from it says it says the word like we see over here the extra hay comes to mind only in these two places is it goats but other places it means sheep and camel and and huh >> no no way something like this is That's a good shot. Check this out. Very, very simple. It's going to make the whole super super easy. Let me see. Oh, okay. I missed all these. I'm sorry, Yoshi. Here we have three Giz and we have three purple. What do we do? The first one is that you cannot cook with fat, milk and fat. The second one is that a dead animal also is considered basar. And the third one is that a baby a benua baby also you can't cook with milk. What's the but not blood? Blood and milk is but not because of just because it's blood and milk and shila means the placenta is just a bag. That's not a problem with and that as we learned that a animal is not included in this. Let's eat inside. I said inside on the chart now the purple [clears throat] a male animal has milk in the I will tell you where to find it. In par it says that when he's taking care of the baby Esther, he's looking around for somebody to nurse the the baby and he couldn't find. So made a nest that he he had milk. So everybody started laughing. So was saying this over in everybody started laughing. So he said, "Why are you laughing?" And a famous story that's a man lost his wife. Yeah. I call upon him male milk doesn't count. [clears throat] I looked it up then Google said yes there is such a thing men could have milk oh. So this is something that we learned before that if you an animal [snorts] and the milk milk comes up comes out after its death then it's not here we go. These are the three on the bottom. Okay. So from the word we learned six things and from the word we learned in the purple we just learned three more things. Now so the asks if we just take get rid of these now we have six things that we just learned from three words. How does it make sense? How do you learn six things from three words? It only says three times says it's another we learned in this you could apply one is on top of another we said it's not going to go into it the fact that this animal there's no reason for it to go away an animal has the fat and the fact that you added to it is not a problem you added another to But so let's do this rabbis. Take a look at the chart for a second. And you can learn from one. I don't need a second one cuz what's meaning that you can't cook milk together with blood. Blood is not a goat. Blood is blood. It's not part of a goat. It's not meat of a goat. So let's get rid of there. Let's take away number four. Getting rid of number four. Vishil Nami and the the the sack around the animal pisho. It's just it's not meat. It's like just a paper bag. So, we got to get rid of shil. Here we go. Number five goes bye-bye. So, here we left with three. Perfect. >> Yeah, but we did one already. Number one. So, we did we used that one. Now we have two left. Take a look. We go like this. Number six and number three. So, now we put them over there. Okay. So, that Have a wonderful day. >> Merit the of spreading Torah throughout the world. Sponsor Ashir today. mdysponsor.com [music] or sponsor at mdyop.com.