CHAZARAH - Chullin Daf 116 | "Nothing but the Daf" with R' Eli Stefansky

[music] >> GOOD MORNING BOYS. >> [screaming] >> WHAT WE GOING TO DO is we're finishing off the Sugya of Matzah to the Shofar and that's going to end somewhere like let's call 15 lines from the top of Kuf to Zion and then we have a guy that though certainly compared to the Matzah Sugya. Yesterday we were learning about how do you know that Basar Bechalav is assur behana'ah? So we learn it from Orlah. Orlah the first 3 years of a tree you can't benefit from it at all. So it says after you learn from Orlah and if you stop over there that's one limud. Basar Bechalav to Orlah. Almost like a Kal Vachomer sort of. If Orlah is assur behana'ah from beginning okay Basar Bechalav certainly also. So the Gemara says no Orlah is different because ein shas hakosher was never mutar even for a moment where Basar Bechalav was mutar in the beginning of its life. Meat is mutar, milk is mutar. If you combine the two it's assur. So okay so we bring a raya from chametz and Pesach. It has a shas hakosher. Chametz is also mutar to eat before Pesach only when Pesach comes along. But it's a problem. Chametz is very very severe. It has kares. So instead of going to Orlah we pick another thing called Kil'ayim Kerem. We're going to discuss this a little bit. What happens if you go back to Orlah? What happens if you go to Kil'ayim Kerem? What do you gain by learning from a third thing versus going back to Orlah? At this point right over here we could have just gone right back to Orlah. Orlah you hear that there's no kares and nevertheless it's assur behana'ah. Instead of going back to Orlah which most of the time that's what we do. We go in a circle. We increase the the size of the circumference over here the size of the circle and we introduce a new thing called Kil'ayim Kerem. Let's go 2 4 6 8 9 lines from the top from the bottom. Do it quickly even if we did do yesterday. The Remoch of Rav Ashi. How come we should have talked to him? This is what we said in the name of Rav Ashi. You want to say you want to say bring in the Vela yesterday we talked about the Vela. The Vela will prove to you that what? It's also stated in the Vela but it's multiple by now so this it's a ruin everything this whole circle. This is not you can't bring a Raya from an outside source. This this Gamora is very good for all of us. Cuz most of us have you know one or two of them that discuss a mad side and the limit. Some people love it some people not so much. But that's part of shots is learning the limit over here. Maybe the only time that the Gamora goes into the rules how how these limit and work. Oh sorry sorry. Yeah I don't want to be distracted. All right I'm going to be distracted. Call mad side me go with the keynote if you could ask a question from within them itself and say oh this one has this problem versus that problem great me I'm going to be you don't bring in outside thing called the Vela and say oh it's multiple by now but it's also by Sheila. I don't know okay you have to taste the mad side I don't understand why you jumping to kill that Karim. Why don't you just learn directly from our lower here like on the right side on the left side in in this case on the left side. We started with the whole of the top we went to our lower. We had a problem with our lower so we went to comments we had a problem with comments go back to our lower our lower doesn't have the problem with comments our lower doesn't have the cars that the pay so has and you go around the circle why do we have the one on the the right which sticks in another one called Kilayim Kerem. If we only had two, you'd say, "Oh, those two have something special. They're different, very different. They grow from the ground." Now, if you think about it, they grow from the ground, so what? You tell me this has chorus, okay, I get it. Wow, this is uh a very powerful thing. It has chorus. has chorus. I mean, it grows from the ground. What What is that something special? So, it makes it different. So, you're going to see there's a pure called who there's a there's a a little push We're giving it a little a little push to the side. Oh, you know what? Arlah grows from the ground. No. And And this one grows in the air, and this one comes from an animal, so what? Why is that a mailer? So, we'll say we'll give it a pure called who. If it's two, maybe we'll give it a pure called who. Arlah and Shalah and Shalah and Kilayim Kerem grows from the ground. Yolkha and Sunami and Kilayim Kerem and Kilayim Kerem and Kilayim Kerem and Kilayim Kerem. You're not making any sense. What did you help? What Why is the one on the right stronger than the one on the left? The one on the left, you have only two components. You're only learning about Arlah from two things, Arlah and Chametz. Now, Arlah and Chametz both grow from the ground. Pizza grows from the ground and trees grow from the ground. So, that's uh I could throw that off. So, a mailer I introduced Kilayim Kerem. Kilayim Kerem also grows from the ground. What did you gain? And then you want to explain what I gained. You know what you gained? You gained another number. Now you're learning the top from three things versus from two. When you learn from three, it's different than when you learn from two. That's [clears throat] what the Gemara answers. It's a stronger limud. To break it, you need a mamash a very powerful pure. You can't just This is a kind of a joke pure, not a joke like a very weak mamash a brush off. It grows in the ground, so what? You should go ahead and grow it in the ground. What Why is that a mailer? You tell me something has cars. You tell me it doesn't have a shasha kosher. Never It was never It was never kosher for a moment. Great. You tell me it grows in the ground. If you're going around in a circle like these guys, it's a math side. You want to learn from from a combination of things. You're learning from Marlo, but Marlo has a little bit of problem. So, then we we bring in a a fixer called Pesach. Pesach has a problem. And you go in a circle. That's a math side. So, that I could get rid of a a piriko or nothing. Loi Marlo. But now if you're sticking something called Loi Marlo, Loi Marlo kilayim, you're stuck on kilayim. The only way you could you could slug it up is you would bring something and you say, "No, this is stronger. This has cars. This has or it's weaker." The fact that it grows in the ground doesn't work now. As the Gamorah, "The liver of the kulu at the end of the day, all of them do have one thing in common. Marlo kusu can you do the karka?" They all grow in the ground. So, let's use that. And now the Gamorah tells us we're going to tighten up our rules. Eloi Marlo Marlo Ravashi. I mean, if I were to ask you, stop logic. Let's use the common sense now. If I learn A from B, what's stronger? I learn A from B or A from B and C? Oh, even the way I asked it wasn't good. I gave it away. Let's do it the opposite. If I learn A from B, or I learn A from B and C, what's stronger? What's the stronger you learn? I learned from one thing I learned from two things. Two things the Torah. And the Gemara here says that's the opposite. Why is it the opposite? Because it doesn't work with common sense. Or what is it what Hakadosh Baruch Hu said in Har Sinai? When he gave us the rules, and here are the rules. If I learn one thing from the other, which is basically a kal vachomer. Like if you remember, all the way in the beginning we learned basar b'chalav from arlah. So one thing I'm learning, milk cooked in with meat from arlah, which is assur b'hana'ah. So now, it's very very strong according to the Torah. Kalu vachomer pachinan kalu lo pachinan. I need something very strong to say, "Oh, arlah didn't have a shas hakosher. It was never muttar, never muttar for a second." That's a strong percha. But kalu lo pachinan, a simple thing, "Oh, arlah grows in the ground, and basar b'chalav doesn't grow in the ground." Wouldn't work in this case. That's why we didn't use it over there. We didn't say, "Oh, arlah grows in the ground." Because I need a strong percha. >> [cough] >> However, chodem mitartei >> The percha is to take away the comparison. >> Yeah, you want to compare two things. You say, "No, you can't compare them." What's the comparison? This has wings, this doesn't have wings. That's not a good percha. That's a metzius. >> distinction. >> Right. That's called a percha kalu. It's But if you tell me, "No, here's a distinction. This thing is so severe that from the moment it was born, you couldn't eat it." So now it makes sense that you can't have any benefit from it. It actually has to do with hana'ah. The fact that it grows in the ground has nothing to do with assur b'hana'ah not assur b'hana'ah. It's just a distinction between two things. >> A distinction without a difference. >> No, there's a real difference. I'm telling you a lamda sh'yehiye difference. This is something that was created, the issur. Whereas basar b'chalav is a weak thing. I took two muttar things, put them together. Why should it be assur b'hana'ah? So if I learn chodem mitartei, I feel it's kalu lo pachinan. Then And this is like I said, it's it's a halacha l'maaseh. It doesn't make sense, but that's how it is. I learn one from two, then I could say, "Oh, it's a gedulei kerem." What about chometz u'matzah? Like in our case. Now, we just threw in here, we just threw in a third thing, chometz and kilayim. So, it's one I'm learning the top guy, basar b'chalav, from three different things, orlah, chometz, kilayim. Chometz u'matzah, you hold the din of basar b'chalav if you're going to go around in a circle, you know, keep on saying, "Well, this one has a chissaron, and so basar learn from this. And this one has a chissaron." Fine. B'cheina kolden, I can knock it out with the gedulei kerem answer. We just The Gemara asked the question, how come you don't say all three have gedulei kerem? The three bottom guys, orlah, chometz, kilayim have gedulei kerem. It doesn't work in this case. Why? The law like in our case, that we're not going back in a circle. I'm just using kilayim as the right. Kulhu l'chumra b'cheina, kol d'hu lo b'cheina, it won't work. A simple uh distinction of gedulei kerem doesn't work in this case. I need a kal v'chomer or chomer. Okay. Says the Gemara, "V'lo ramani kilayim sh'ken l'hayser l'shasa choshech." That's a good, strong distinction. Kilayim never was never mutar from the moment it was created. Amar Rav Adda bar Ahava, "Zei siman resha." There's two ways to look at it. That's what I asked him, the corner over there. How do you look at at kilayim? Is it from the moment it starts sprouting and that becomes ossur and from that moment it was always ossur? Or I look at the seeds, and I say the seeds used to be mutar. Says the Gemara, from over here I see that I look at the seeds themselves, and I say the seeds used to be mutar, and the seeds today are are are ossur b'hana'ah. So, something changed in the seeds. They had a shasa choshech. They were mutar on Sunday, on Tuesday, when I put them into the ground, they, the seeds, themselves became also. Just like boss of the holic. The actual seeds became also. The and these seeds were 100% motor to eat each one individually. When you put them in the ground, they became also. Ask the more, but wait a minute. Is that true that the seeds become also? I'll prove to you they don't become also. That's it. Okay, so we're done. Basically, we're done with the Sugya of outside and all these remove them. Now we're moving on to much easier stuff. Ask the more. Let's see this for a second. These seeds are motor. Put the green seeds in. Okay. Let's see that Russia Noam. The wheat grows in the vineyard. Okay. So if this guy takes his pot and the pot the bottom of the pot has a giant hole in it where it could nurse from the ground. Nourish. It gets nourishment from the ground and it grows a sliver in that pot. How much is a sliver? 1/200. Only if it added 1/200 it becomes also. The actual seeds don't become also. It's whatever was added becomes also. So you see seeds don't become also. That Himalaya is interesting. I don't know if anybody ever paid attention attention to this word. Pentignis Himalaya means to be full. That whatever grows in the in the in the in the future becomes also. Becomes college. Becomes also. On the other hand it says that the actual seed becomes also. So which one is it? What what you added this sir or even the seed to begin with? Okay, it's zero I mean bash Russia. When you put the seed into the ground, so the seed itself becomes also when it takes root. Like we saw in the video. It turns red. The seed itself turns red. The rule above but if you come with a a planter, you come with something that's already growing. And you brought it into the vineyard. Then only what he added on later becomes also and if not not. Says the more brand new so good. Must needs in the light of what does it say in our mission and everybody's aware of this? Possible is also about and also about not. We have a man that says it's not also about not. Possible of also about not it's more to benefit from it. Should I mark? You use the word college. But if you have it also says we have this this limit yesterday. I think you only says the word college. Not allowed also about not. If you have a treif. I mean we wouldn't be eating kosher meat right now if treif was also about not because 30% of animals today are treif according to our standards. What what can you do with it? What take a $2,000 animal throw it out in the garbage? You have to you have to sell it to the non-Jew. And get your $2,000 back. And like I mean you take a little bit of a loss. It's not so geshmeck. And that's why kosher meat costs a lot of money. But it would be impossible to eat kosher meat if this halacha didn't exist. It says that what you're allowed to benefit from from a treifa. You open up an animal, you see that there's a hole in the heart, you sell it to a non-Jew. It's mutar b'hana'ah. So therefore, since we share the same word kodesh kodesh, so by by basar b'chalav, af kein osur b'hana'ah mutar b'hana'ah. Great. Rebbi Akiva Omer, chaya v'of. He says uh a wild animal like a deer and a bird, the basar b'chalav is not not d'oraita. Rebbi Yishmael, chicken. Is What's the issur to eat chicken with meat? Or with with dairy? Chicken with dairy? Schnitzel sandwich with a geshmeck uh >> Parmigiana. >> Parmigiana. Oh oh uh uh uh co- cooked in butter. Butter schnitzel. What's the issur? D'oraita? D'rabbanan? What what's the issur? Huh? What's the machlokes? Okay, Shamshon is machlokes. So goes mikotzer kotzer and smack in the middle. Either it's 100% mutar, mutar, no issur d'rabbanan, nothing. You go in the restaurant, eat it l'chatchila. Or 100% assur. Or smack in the middle, it's issur d'rabbanan, not d'oraita, not mutar. So says the Gemara Hani apkinu l'kodesh kodeshim. So let's very very simple. Over here it's all Look at these three limudim. Let's wash your hands with mayim acharonim. We know the Torah says it three times. Says Rebbi Akiva comes to exclude a deer, comes to exclude a bird, and it comes to exclude horse's milk and and and and uh meat is not a problem of basar b'chalav. Says the Gemara, I don't understand. If you all remember from yesterday, we had Shmuel that started off like this. Remember he had all these limudim, the the the red and the green, then we took the red and the green and we combined them together and we did something like this. We said these two guys go together and this and then gets her we got all the way to a point where we have three limudim. The laser comes to include the fat of an animal. You take the fat of a cow which is also for you to eat. There's some fats here mutar, some are assur. The ones that are assur you take it and you cook it in milk. basar b'chalav The other limud is it doesn't apply to horse. And the third limud is that a baby a baby goat a baby cow that's a ben pakua in the mother there's a issur to to to cook with with milk. Asks the Gemara, if I'm learning these one, two, three Shmuel's one, two, threes, how does Rebbi Akiva have room for his one, two, three? How does this work? How do you have extra place? Says the Gemara, I'll tell you why. Because if you look closely, I don't need a pasuk for number one. What's number one? You have a piece of fat a piece of chelev. You're not allowed to cook it with milk. What's the chiddush? Of course you can't cook it with milk. It's meat. El amai? The chiddush here is what's the chiddush? issur chal al issur How do you add a second issur to one issur that already exists? And the answer [clears throat] is cuz he holds issur chal al issur. So if he holds issur chal al issur, I don't need a pasuk for that. Anything you want to add Yom Kippur to that? So you add another issur to it. You want to add the Shabbos the Shabbos whatever you want to add. You want to add um basar b'chalav to chelev? It works. Why not? I don't need a pasuk to tell me that it works. That's number one. And number three to tell me that a baby is also ba- ba- basar b'chalav. Why not? It's a baby. Why is it not a Why is it not a cow? Why is it not a goat? So I don't need one and three. Two anyways he uses. Look, two Rebbi Akiva uses product may out. Although it's number three on this one, but it's number [laughter] two. And may law I have two extra ones. Says the Gemara Cuz Rebbi Akiva is chal al issur. First of all he holds issur chal al issur. Therefore chelev may be a krov. I don't need number one is there schliemann it's a regular piece of meat why would it be awesome Guys really cool right we did have in the school of that interesting thing that you allowed to eat a slew with butter we had that cheetah Interesting thing okay but he holds it's a regular animal may love I don't need a possible rate Yeah it's really cool all three are extra product higher of and therefore I'm left with these three that are The meat of a deer together with milk is not awesome the meat of a bird is not awesome the meat of the Of a tray for you not a lever on impossible of What tomato is it tomato non-kosher animal And therefore we learn that anything that's awesome is an available awesome to do official possible of Then in the day comes out that a bird doesn't have an available so bird is no it's a possible of isn't that the same thing that said that a bird is there's no possible of What's the difference in the two it can be are you higher There is yeah you're right in the bird is no difference the difference is in the higher the difference is in the deer that says that it's only other than a banana and we basically says no it's the right to cook a deer's meat venison together with milk If I say more if you give me now you the difference is the bird we give us a voice in a minute over the serum of is the middle ground the bird schnitzel with butter with parmesan is awesome in the banana Basically all I feel a banana there's nothing tiny I'm going to really is there are you cursed in 18 glasses promise what's greater than the cut down a tree on Shabbos. Lashes problem to make to cut down the tree to make colds lashes to fashion a knife to make to make metal a metal knife. On Shabbos we hold you out loud but they hold you out they would eat and the whole city they would eat schnitzel parmesan lady goes to the hunter what's the top is this unbelievable creature. [clears throat] It's like not shy the beauty of this thing right so they give him a head of a of a some sort of bird called a top saw in milk. So obviously what is it this three sheets of over here we just saw the three sheets of what is he holding? You also ready why don't you put him in what kind of is this we don't eat chicken with milk or they ask you he lives this hunter lives every place but I mean all and I thought to myself he was also a hobby. The a bird is not in the category of of a aim doesn't have mothers milk and the mail is 100% water. Says the mission. K bus no free Michelle DeVille. So in the English article says over here what's K bus this is carriage this is congealed milk look something like this. So the article in English calls it rennet I like I like rennet we can go with the rennet but the Hebrew doesn't seem to talk about Rennet. He just says it's congealed milk. Okay, so let's let's call it Rennet. I like Rennet. The Rennet, not the intestines called Keva, but the Rennet of the intestines. What does that mean? So, the way that the way it works is how do you make cheese? You take you take a a piece of Kishka like this. And that that has enzymes in it and that starts the process. It's a chemical process that that takes milk and makes it into cheese. That's the Keva. That's the actually the intestines. You take a little bit Kishka. And then whatever you do, and then you're able to You see, but you saw over there he didn't put the whole Kishka in there. He put the the enzyme part of it and then it becomes cheese. But what if you put the actual Kishka inside? That's much worse. Why is that worse? Because now it's nice and tam. It gives flavor. If the actual Kishka gives flavor, that could be problematic, the Mishna says. So, first the Mishna starts off, "Keva is not kosher in the daylight." If you get this Rennet from a or that of an animal that died without Shchita, "Harayzu asura." So, the Gemara is going to ask right away, "Every time you buy a dead animal from a it's an avela." So, what's the difference of animal of a and avela? It's one of the same. Every animal is an avela. They they're not allowed to shacht an animal. So, let's say they did shacht it or they didn't shacht it, it doesn't matter. If you buy halal it's considered for us considered an avela. So, what what was the two things? and an avela. is an avela. "Hamamit b'orshal Keva." Like this video that we just saw. He takes the actual piece of the intestines and puts it in the bowl. "Chayra sh'Keva chayra." The the Keva is kosher. Now we have a problem basar b'chalav. It depends. "Im yesh bo noisen ta'am." If it has if it gives off flavor, "Haray zu let me ask you a question if you didn't learn this so you answer if you learn this so you please don't. Why is it a problem? Isn't it cold and cold? Cold rennet in cold or cold intestine in cold milk, why is it a problem? Why is it called it's it's considered pickle because it's different a long time. If you let it sit there for hours it becomes and has a as if it is hot. >> [cough and clears throat] >> I just want to point out I'm not going to go into this whole but starts off saying the you have this milk that you found that's that's congealed in this the highest stomach use the the actual hide he says three lines down near it's a 100% less than a year. But this is what I want to point out in many many [clears throat] lines down. Probably 30 lines down. says I made a big mistake in this I have complete from my mistake. I'm I'm in the first I'm telling the world I made a mistake and it's a 100% also why went sometimes he said it says it says whatever the whatever the is. You see him. a recent that we everything that we learned, all Rashi, the easy. maybe they wanted to prevent somebody from making a mistake thing that Rashi once passed him that it's okay. So you should know, I I take it back completely. Whatever it is. Sure it's young treif. Listen to this this is reverse and reverse. >> [clears throat and cough] >> Counter intuitive. If you have a kosher animal that has inside it a non kosher product. Why? Cuz it it it nursed from a treif animal. So the rennet is ossur. It's a kosher animal, but where did it get the rennet from? Where did it produce it from? From a treif. This brings up many many issues. Now boys, I think about it for a second. Every milk that we drink, guaranteed if 30% of the animals are treif, so 30% of your milk is treif milk. How do you drink milk? So they say it's not really 30%. We're super and okay, it's 10%. If it's 30% you don't have the shishum. So the need in it. Some people don't drink milk. Treif young treif. But what about the reverse? You have a you have a animal a kosher animal but it's treif it has a hole in the heart. And they drink a lot of kosher milk. The rennet is moter. Because it's considered gathered in its stomach in its intestines. The milk it's entity it's own. We don't consider the milk treif like the mother. It's in its own little bottle in its stomach. I don't understand the two the two concepts. And the is not an animal. We're talking about the guy asking we're talking about somebody purchased a live goat a Jew who purchased a live goat from a guy. We're concerned that the live goat drank milk from another kosher animal but the kosher animal is treif. Are we concerned with such a thing? But now look at him beating him and I got him. You could buy from an Arab. Sometimes Arabs sell eggs. It's not a great idea cuz it has a bunch of salmonella and stuff. They're like, "No, seriously. They get like these diseased eggs and they sell them, you know, off-market." Yeah. They keep them outside, unrefrigerated, not a good idea. So, you you're permitted how long can you to buy from them? They learn from the available treif. I'm not concerned that he took it from a dead animal. Imagine a dead chicken tops open the thing, plucks out a couple of eggs. Mom in the available. And the treif. How come over here we're concerned that the animal drink from a treif animal? I'm concerned that in the in the farm there's a little chazzerel running around and it nursed from the chazzer. Oh, what's the difference? Maybe it nursed from a treif animal. Maybe it nursed from a treif chazzer. From a pig is so chashash. It's mainly chashash. There's a lot of in the barn, there's a lot of tummy animals. There's not a lot of treif. I guess in the time of the Gemara not a lot of treif. Maybe even nowadays not a lot of treif. We're makpid. We we're makpid on like what's treif. We have a sircha, this and that, but it doesn't really mean a sircha doesn't mean it's treif. Sir, it's stuck. The lung stuck. It's a raya. You know, it's not 100%. But if it's common this non-kosher animal, I feel like I would be done with it cuz maybe uh a pig from the next door neighbor jumped in here and they they drink its milk. So, the Gemara says we're very careful from dover acher, from chazzer or any other tummy animal. I saw videos we would learn once. So, you see like random animals. You see like a cow standing and a a pig will walk over to the cow and start nursing the cow. And the cow is in a chab. You know, animals share. Like they'll they'll go to other animals. You'll see it. We we distance ourselves from the chazzer. Like we're rabonim there's no reason to be goyish. In the old days we didn't have a minyan but a non-Jew he doesn't care about the chazer he doesn't even care if one of these chazerim walk in this barn. Because we're rabonim we have to we have to be careful. He says no when the when the mishna says in the vaila nochri and a vaila it's not two separate cases it's one. We're talking about the intestines the the the rennet of a a goy's an availa. As the gemara the omer shmuel shmuel says what's the problem with non-kosher cheese? The problem is that they use the physical kishka to make the rennet. But the rennet itself sharia it's only the or it's only the physical part not the not the enzyme. Like I said you'll see this again tomorrow I guess we'll stop here. The Rabbi Yeshua retracted what he said. Before he said that the actual rennet is considered an availa an availa. So he said it's an availa it's also but once he took it back he retracted so the rennet itself is not an availa it's mutar a boy sigh have a wonderful day. >> [music] >> Merit the schuss of spreading Torah throughout the world. Sponsor a shear today. mdy.sponsor.com or sponsor.mdy.com [music]