Chony Milecki INTERVIEW - The P'nimius Podcast with Uziel Naparstek

So, you said that we could get deep in this. Can I get controversial with you for a bit? >> Welcome to the podcast where we interview those that entertained us in our childhood. >> All right, here we are with the legendary you know him from every simcha that you probably been at for the past almost over I'm I'm not sure how long as long as I can remember as a child and he's also been a legendary arranger and producer for many songs and especially his own albums. He's most famous for the great Farby which is one of the most prolific albums to play at at events in my opinion and he's also seen him with his tracks on and so much more and here we are sitting with him to discuss all that. Honey Melecki, how you doing? >> How are you Good to be here. You've been trying to get me for quite a while, right? What is it a year? >> a while. Yeah, yeah. Now we're here. >> gave in. >> Yes. >> gave in. What's going on? >> actually tell you a story? So, about a year last year I was at the and I was writing to the Rebbe about the idea of me doing the music side and the podcast side and all that and without going into too much detail, part of the letter was because I was balancing a job that I had and this. So, I was writing to the Rebbe about like the balance and like how to pursue, where is it going? And as I'm walking into the Rebbe's caver who do I bump into on the way to the caver? I bump into Honey Melecki. And for me, that was a sign for me personally that I'm doing something right and I should continue and so when I said, oh hi, I introduced myself and that's when we connected at the and obviously we were in a rush, you had to go and whatever but for me that was special for me. So, I just wanted to share that with you before we start. >> Yeah, that's powerful. Uh, it's just amazing how many interactions that we all have every day and we don't know what effect we have on other people. And most times you'll never know. But I have every so often someone's kind enough to say, by the way, I met you or you said this comment and it really changed the way I live or the way that I relate to people or the way that I learn. And uh you you would never know, but it's so important that whenever we have those reac interactions to just uh realize that every moment is a is a powerful moment and every interaction is a powerful interaction. So thank you for sharing. I don't take any credit, obviously. I happened to be there. >> But for me, it was a it was a very personal moment that I wanted to share that with you. So >> Yeah. These things happen too often to be chance. >> Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So let's start with your background, where you originally come from, your childhood and everything. >> Why do you want to know? >> Uh, you feel Well, uh I feel like I feel like when it comes to art >> let's talk about interesting stuff. Go go ahead. Yeah. >> Yeah, but but Well, you don't have to go as deep, but basically what I try to show is um >> figure out where you're going. Where where where do we where do we really digging for? Not just random info, right? >> Right. So what I what I'm trying to always highlight is the quality of the Jewish art, especially Jewish music in this instance. And I always like to go on not necessarily about like the childhood in general, but where could you track back into your love in the art of music or in or what you what you could track back and say this is what uh this is this moment or this instance in my childhood or or my background of my childhood led me in the path of what I'm doing today. So >> I'll make it short. Um I started uh being attracted to music on my own without uh any input from anyone else. In other words, not with my parents' uh involvement um or a teacher or anything like that. I just was attracted from the first time I saw a a piano. I wanted to learn how to play it. And, then, of course, my parents supported it, but it was always self-driving. Uh, I never had uh like a proper education growing up in music. And it was just something I loved to do. It was something I was good at. I knew I was good at it. I had friends who were doing it as well, and I understood from an early age that I had skills that they didn't have, even though many of them or some of them were taking lessons every single week, etc. And I I I knew already that that I had the skill, and it was always just a fun thing to do. I always loved going to my room, putting on the headphones, playing. And uh it's just a great way to relax. What's interesting is this was a generation ago. And there wasn't a lot of people doing this. There wasn't a lot of people who were doing music. It wasn't encouraged. It wasn't discouraged, I don't think, but it certainly wasn't encouraged in the from community. Um, now I see it everywhere. Now all the kids, all of their parents, they're all they see the beauty and the uh and what music does for for people. And so now parents what can I do to to get my children? They're always asking for advice. Who's a good teacher? What what's a good program? Um, but yeah, grew up in a very different time, and Hashem gave me the talent, and Hashem gave me the passion because I don't know where it came from. >> What do you think it was for you personally? Like what was music for you as a child when it came to music? Was it just music in general for you as a child, and now that you're more professional, you kind of know it better? Or did you always have that intuitively of how music is produced even as a child? Like what was that for you? >> There was a Was it? I I wanted to do it, and I didn't have a reason. I didn't think about it. I wasn't what is this doing for me? Uh, you know, when you're eating a candy, you ask your kid ask your kids, what's this candy doing for you? I don't know that they really think about it that much. It was it was just a great way to spend time, to express myself. Because I was good at it from a young age, I I always enjoyed doing it, figuring out new things, arranging stuff. And the technology was very very new and very primitive in those times, always pushing the limits, which I still do. So, that's what it was about. There was no ulterior motive. >> So, was there any like artist in the genre of arrangers and producers of the music behind the scenes a little bit because of like just whether it's on concerts or in the albums that you kind of paid attention to or you looked up to in a way? >> It was very very limited when I was growing up. There was Avraham Fried. I knew all of his albums. Mordechai Ben David knew all of his albums. There was Piamenta. They they were like the bad boys. >> Yeah. >> I personally liked very much Isaac Bitton, Ryan Mehlman till today. I think one of the best albums, his first albums, maybe the best album of Jewish music in my opinion. >> 100% >> And I don't think it's a it's a subjective thing. I think objectively you look at the musicality, you look at the the originality, you look at the the stepping out of the box at every single stage of the their music, I think. But that's what we grew up with. It was very very limited his couple of couple of singers, a couple of bands. It wasn't like today where everybody's singing. So, all of them I listened to everything that came out. There was back then Country Yossi was a big deal. You know, all of his albums. There was others coming out. I think the big four that had an effect on me were were Avraham Fried, Mordechai Ben David, Piamenta. >> Right. Were you at all intuitive of like the arrangements part of it, like who were behind the scenes of it? Like for example, Moshe Laufer or or Yisroel Lamm, like any of those aspects of the music you were listening to back then? >> ever till today been into the personality or the people. I don't never followed sports. I never followed politics in that way. I never followed who's the arranger, who's this, but I was very very interested in the arrangements and I at the age of 13 or 14 already on very very primitive software I would I would take some of the songs and and copy them note for note on MIDI. And you have to understand, even today that's not so simple. But back then with for a 13-year-old without any help, without any guidance, it was it was that's how I learned because you had to figure out everything yourself. What's a bass note? Most people what's a how do you play the drums? What's a snare? What's a hi-hat? What are all these things? Living in a community that I didn't know a single drummer came grew up in Australia. I didn't know any drummers. There's no And so you had to figure all this out the the hard way from scratch. And and so I would pay attention to the arrangements. I would try to replicate them and through replicating them I learned, okay, this is the role that a guitar plays. This is the role that brass plays. This is the role that drums play. This is how you put it all together. Here's how you mix it. Here yeah you're getting sounding good. And then when you get keyboards, this is how I can make a beat. It's the same thing. It's just taking a song but arranging it in a in a in a different way that's more live and more playable. So yeah I didn't pay attention to the personalities, but I definitely paid attention to the to the style. >> So when it comes to like now when you are doing it professionally, do you think that was an advantage for you that you when you were grinding and researching all this stuff as opposed to like going to a music school or or going to a class? Do you think that was an advantage overall? >> I'm not sure. I guess you could say there was an advantage to it and there's also a major major advantage of growing up today where you have all these resources. I know musicians who are going through the ranks today and they have resources and and role models that we did not have. There was nothing like that. There was no when I was growing up band leaders in the from community or certainly one man band wasn't even invented yet. So when you have today a young guys entering the business and they pay two and a half thousand dollars and they get a a a zip file on the internet which has all the beats and sounds that they need, Um, yeah, there's a certain advantage in in in having that because then you can start your building from there, but then you don't have your foundations. I always wonder, if you took a someone from today and you put them back 200 years ago, would they what would they do with all the technology? Like in other words, they know how to use a phone, they know how to turn on the light, they know how to drive a car, they know how to use these things, but they don't know how it works. And so is it an advantage today that we have all that technology? Of course, it's a major advantage because we're standing on giants' shoulders, but if the giant was pulled out from beneath our feet, it would be and I think it's the same thing. The I wish I would have had the opportunities to learn um like I never had a music teacher that was not in the budget for a family, but imagine I could have gone on YouTube and for $100 or $150 a year um gone on Simply Piano or uh or some of the more advanced like the Open Jazz and there's all things that you could do today which I don't have time for uh and and learning how to read. All of those things uh I wish I had those uh had had that when I was younger because I would have eaten it up. Uh but now I don't have time. >> Right, exactly. >> But but yes, but I have other things. I have experience. Of course course you have to learn how to read. I'm not an expert reader, but I I'm I can read good enough to lead an orchestra. Um but uh but yeah, everything in life everything that is an advantage is also a disadvantage. Everything that's a disadvantage is an advantage. It depends on how you're looking at it and how you use the advantages to your advantage and how you stay away from the disadvantages. >> Uh so in that case then um let's go into where I first know you from, which is more way before than most people know you from. I remember the first time I ever saw you on something, I don't remember what it was called, but I remember there was something going on where there was like some sort of music competition as some website or something and there was like and you were there was I think it was specifically for piano or something like that and you were in that competition or something and when you and you were killing it you were I guess there was like someone with video camera with something and when you look at the votes you won like 90% or something and the next person was like only like 5% or something like it was like a crazy Tell me a little about about that it was because I'm actually curious so like cuz that's probably where you were trying to start and that's where you're going into things so >> Well that was a long time ago >> Yeah >> old are you? >> I don't remember I was probably like >> No how old are you now? >> Oh 23 23 >> Like you remember stuff from when you were like 10? >> Oh I think it was way I think it was earlier than I was 10 but >> Yeah it might have been I I I think it was in 2014 maybe a little earlier >> Yeah so I would have been Oh yes I would have been probably 10 >> 2010 2010 2011 Yeah you were less than 10 years old There was there was a Yamaha put on a a massive competition for a Ranger keyboards to see who could just make the best the best By the way I think if you want to know I think that I caused that competition to happen because I don't know this for sure but I'm 99.9% sure cuz there was never never another competition before and never another one after What happened is they had just they had just released a new keyboard called the Tyros 4 Then I was a power user I got on that thing and I immediately started creating on it and ran into bug after bug after bug and so I called Yamaha and I emailed them and I said hey how do we fix this and they would always yeah you just don't know what you're doing every we everything we do is perfect And so I I just put it online before social media I just put it on YouTube and >> like what like the bugs or the video you did? >> videoed I made four or five videos of various bugs >> Oh wow >> and this was before social media and anyone who wanted to buy the keyboard went on YouTube and looked it up and my videos always up first at hundreds of thousands of views. >> Wow. >> On these silly videos. I didn't even mean to get the views. The only reason I put the the videos there was so I could show them to Yamaha. Then in the meantime, everyone was searching them up. I got hundreds of thousands of views. I made a few hundred dollars in advertising from these stupid us. >> Wow. >> And and anytime anyone wanted to buy a Yamaha, my videos came up first. And so Yamaha had a big problem because they want to sell keyboards and every time someone wants to research the keyboards, all they're going to see is why it doesn't work. And so they had to flood the the um they had to flood the the internet with with other videos, with better videos. >> Positive, yeah. >> And so they created a a competition that would encourage people to make videos of this keyboard. And of course, I wanted to win the competition, which could be happened because of me in the first place. Um and and uh yeah, I I came in very very very hot, very very high. Um in the end, the competition was was canceled, which was a real bummer because I was right in there on the top because there had been someone had hacked the system. Someone had hacked it and and and and uh and basically I I was coming in first like 99% of the vote because the whole Jewish the everyone in the Jewish community we're very tribal in a good way. Everyone wants it wants it me to win and they would vote for me. And this is also the beginning. Now no nobody does anything on the internet, but then it was new. Oh, he's like he's doing this. Let's help him win. Let's help him win. And and I had 99% of the the votes and then one day somebody else had 99% of the votes. It made no sense at all. And so they realized they were hacked and they didn't know how to undo it. So they just disbanded the whole thing because according to their rules in the fine print they could do that. But it was a lot of fun and uh and uh it got my name out there. I guess I still won. >> Yeah, basically, yeah. That is such a And this is before you started doing things professionally or did you start doing >> No, I was already in it. I was already doing it. And And they still gave out to all of the that like the top five people they gave they still gave prizes out. Uh they just didn't announce anyone as the top. Um uh what did you ask? Did I Was I already in it? Yeah, yeah. I This was I I was in it since uh 2005 2006. I was in pretty early. >> So what what were you think So you were You're one of those artists like you and Ellie Marcus also where you were building up to something, right? It wasn't like necessarily that something blew up in the internet or a music video or thing. Like you you you you were basically like one of those people that built up a a brand basically, right? Cuz you went into you started doing small things, you went to weddings, and eventually you've been doing Ellie Marcus for years weddings, eventually your name really got out there and you and you went from just a keyboard to a band and stuff like that. Um do you think that for you Do you think that there's a aspect where people trust you as the artist or as someone to hire because of that? Because not necessarily is it just like a name that blew up and so people just trying to get the next trend. It's because people are getting you because they recognize you and they were with you for many many years. Uh that Do you think there's something to that or it's all the same really? >> So there's a lot of elements to that question. So yes, uh me and you mentioned Ellie as well, we definitely uh we definitely pounded the pavement. We didn't just get into the market and suddenly do well very straight away. First few years Listen, I wasn't married, so I Anything that I was making was profit, right? So that was It wasn't not so hard for me. Um uh but it didn't take me too long to really break in. Two three years. >> Right. But even then that's like I mean it's a gig is one day and two three years is a very long time for that to be. >> Oh I But but on the first year I thought was I was like I I was so happy because you're a you don't have anything and suddenly charging very little. I think was 7 800 dollars for a wedding including sound etc. And I didn't have a car and I would it all by hand on a hand truck. I was young and strong. Um and I remember like thinking at the end of I don't know if it was the first or the second year I was like wow I think I made 50 grand this year. Um well I don't know what the number was but something which was not a great salary but for me I would never saw that kind of money before. Um and and so that's how you know that's how I started out and then as it it grew and I was was able to to do better and and get a car right and and hire people to help me etc. Ellie Marcus same thing Ellie started off very very cheap. I remember I I put him on the map. I saw him at a wedding uh singing a song at at his cousin's wedding. I I thought wow this guy has talent. I I need a singer. It's a and I pushed him and he entered the market. He was very very shy at the time. He wouldn't believe it. He's still shy today by the way. >> Yeah. >> was extra shy then. Uh but with a little bit of persistence I think he probably felt he didn't have a choice because I I had a much I still have a strong personality but was a lot more raw then. And I kind of pushed him. I said listen Ellie you got to do it and he got into it. And but he didn't make a lot of money for for a decade. Uh I I can't even after he got married he wasn't doing great straight away. Um he wasn't he really it was hard in the beginning I'm sure for him. Um and >> did it work then? Was it like a package deal that someone hired you and you and he was part of it or >> who called in those days anyone who called me I I straight away said Ellie Marcus is my singer. Now someone would insist and say no I want to work with someone else and that's their prerogative. But when someone here is the the musicians say this is my singer this is who I work then they they are generally inclined to trust that. And the fact is Ellie was doing good. He did it. He was doing a good job. So people started to think of us as the as the dream team. And then he started putting up his prices and because he started getting better and every year or so went started off as probably 200 bucks maybe and then three, four, five, six and then it got to the point um probably five years ago, five, six years ago where he hit the 2000 mark and I and it was a bit much for what people in Crown Heights were happy to pay. But outside Crown Heights, people happy to pay. They they're just right? >> Yeah. >> and uh and he said he said honey I I this is my price now and I gave him he he was felt very guilty about it. He was like you know I've worked with you >> Right because you were singing for years together. >> So I I I said hey do what you need to do and uh and good luck and he Baruch Hashem had great luck and Seattle Yeah. >> I would do want to talk about that cuz like you said you were the dream team like every Simcha and all these gigs you were together. But it wasn't just because you were together in a band, but you were actually legitimately good. He was gelling very well with your energy. You were gelling very well with his energy. What do you think it was that what do you think it is with with Ellie Marcus? Not saying and not downplaying other singers, but specifically Ellie Marcus, what do you think it was that gelled you guys for so many years together and >> Have you interviewed Ellie? >> Uh he said he's interested, but I haven't done a date yet, but yeah. >> Right. Um you could ask him also a lot of these questions. Uh I think that uh it comes down to believe it or not there's something called the X factor. Um X factor in in mathematics means the unknown. And what makes a a singer good? It me it's it's not the same thing for every single singer. For one singer it could be their voice. For another one it's their stage presence. For another one it's their smile. For another one it's uh it's the way right? And and I find that very often, in fact, almost every single time, it's not the voice itself that that makes someone successful. So, the question yeah, every single singer who wants to sing with me, I'm like, what is this guy's X factor? What is his X factor? It doesn't even have to be the greatest singer. And I think Ellie always had a certain a certain smile. He always had a certain rhythm which came naturally to him and people like that and you know. I I he's very very good um a very good social he has good social um I don't want to call it skills because it's just natural people like him and he likes people. Put it that way. >> Yeah, a good example of that is that he came to LEC to sing. He comes every so often for every Hanukkah or whatever when he's in town in Florida. And so it was after they did a concert and then they had a lunch in the school. And usually like singers like if they finish a gig or something, they're just really out of it. They're done. They're exhausted. He sat down at a table and I was I was holding a lunch and I said hi and he's like, oh hi, like I just wanted to introduce myself. He said, hey, sit down. And we sat down with for lunch and we were just talking and and he was very like open and interested and not necessarily was a like it was not even like a long conversation. It was like five minutes or whatever, but he was just like very open and happy and like he was very we were just talking. It was it was very it was very nice. It was very cool interaction. >> Sounds to me like you should get him on the podcast. >> Yeah, yeah. >> No, so definitely >> like you you think he's one of the best best singers out there. You are you married? >> Uh married soon, but no, not yet. >> Is he going to be a singer if you can afford him? >> If I could afford him, probably probably. I I think what it is though I think it is that he's just very humble and he's just very and it's not just like in his personality. It's everything he does including the music. So, if you're very humble with your music, you could find yourself into the music more easier. Right? If you're like humble about it when in terms of professionalism, in terms of of going with it or in terms of just being so technical, if you're humble about it in the art, in the music, you could find yourself enveloped by the music in a very good way where you could gel very well into the music. And I think he's a very good example of that. >> Sure. >> I think so. I really think so. Have you ever seen a video of Avram Fried when he was younger, a bochur or just married You ever seen any of those footages? >> I mean I not recently, but I know how he used to sing. Uh what? Yeah. >> So after you watch the podcast, after this podcast, if you watch if you go look at some footage out there in the internet, he and Eli Marcus look exactly the same. Their energy is the same. Their their their like how they're singing it's it's it's really really creepy and and really and it was also it's also interesting cuz he also wears those very short brim uh and and that suit and also Avram Fried was like that when he was a bochur. It's very very interesting to look at that. >> Interesting. I I don't know that I see I mean I see some of the similarities, but Avram Fried um is a different uh it's a different breed. I was listening to some of his music. Um I think that he uh is one of the most talented singers ever in the Jewish market just on a technical uh point of view. The control the the control he has in his in his voice, in the timbre, in the color, in the vibrato, in the um in the dynamics. Uh people don't generally pay attention by the way. They say, oh he sings he sings. But as a person in the music business, I I I want to hear not just the singer. I want to hear hear the the the the personality and the depth and the color. And I don't think anybody has that the the the nobody comes close to what Avram Fried has. >> Yeah. >> Now you can argue does he have the best voice? I don't think he does. Um you can argue about if he has the best songs. Um you can argue about other things, but I think just in terms of vocal ability, um, I think it's really unique and uh and something special. I was just listening to one of his old uh albums right just last week. Somebody asked me to play something. And I I listened to that growing up, but I listened to it now and I was like, oh my gosh, this guy can sing. >> Yeah. >> the the just the ease of going from head voice to to to regular voice and then it's getting into his stomach and this and that just all one performance and yeah. So Avram Fried is definitely uh I think uh Mordechai Ben David already took the the the the name King of Jewish Music. He was crowned by somebody. But he's Avram Fried is also definitely definitely the OG, one of the OGs. >> What's also interesting is that um people tend to go, oh my favorite part of the song is the chorus or the high part. With Avram Fried, every note and every uh part of that timeline of the songs are so so good in its own right. Like for example, like one of my favorite thing is like um what was it? On Giant Shoulders. So how he starts the song, When I was young. But when you listen back to it, how he started that song and the way he was using his voice, it's so it's and it's so good and only and now I realized it now obviously when I'm growing up as opposed to a kid like like you said like when you listen to it again, but it's just so under like even though he is praised a lot, just people don't I don't think people really understand how much there was into every aspect of his music. >> Yeah. I agree. >> And there's also there was a lot of depth. Like when you listen to compositions of not just Avram Fried, most singers that have a long career, when you listen to compositions of then and or arrangements more like more I'm talking about, but also compositions, uh when you listen to arrangements of old songs versus now, it's crazy how every note of the arrangements had its own story, where like there was there's like there's like this roller coaster playing around with the arrangement at the point of the song of what we're saying in the song and then also the composition. There's a lot of like playing around with it that whether it was intentional or not, but there is it is very interesting to listen back to those arrangements and see like even the intros, like you saw a lamb, he was well known for his intros and how those intros in itself had its own experience and then you go into the rest of the song. Like I I think like arrangements of that time are very underrated. >> I agree that I think Mona Rosenbloom was the king of all, but I believe that overall there was uh there were really good arrangements, but don't discount what's coming out today. There's a lot of good stuff >> Oh, 100% 100% yeah. >> There it's a different breed and it's easy to say, oh, when I was growing up it was this, but um even when I was putting out the Great Fire beat, there was so much I I learned about modern music and EDM music and people would wouldn't even you wouldn't even believe the amount of of work that goes into creating electronic music, not just the amount of work, the amount of of really understanding you have to have not just of musical sounds, but of the waveforms. It it's much more fundamental when you're going into I'm not saying everyone's doing that. I'm not saying all of EDM music is good. Most of it's not, but but there is there's a real skill and there's a real energy there as well. >> The one thing though is that we don't see enough though is like I said the intros, the way where they have a whole introduction, but the introduction itself is a whole story as opposed of just playing the chorus or or the verse in in in introduction way. >> music has taken a different form in the last decade or so. It used to be very very simple. The every single song would have follow this formula. Intro, verse, chorus, maybe intro, chorus, bridge, chorus, ending, something like that. And firstly, EDM is different because the chorus normally the chorus is the banger in in regular music. The chorus in EDM is not the banger. It's the lead up to the banger. It's creating the energy. It isn't the energy. It's it's anticipation. And the when the chorus is finished, you have the drop. That's where the energy is. So it's a different a different format. And now with social media, I was reading this whole report on it that there's no intros, there's no endings cuz they they it's like the the songs used to be in Beethoven's time an hour. It went down to 10 minutes. It went to 5 minutes. It went to 3 minutes. And now it's 90 seconds. So so we're going to be listening to ringtones. But there's you know, the the the the music has changed and there's you know, there's different power, different energy. EDM I'm like look, you hear too much of it, it also gets very repetitive and you know, but that there's a certain energy, a certain energy there. >> Yeah. I I also like my comment on animator of songs that I like, old, new, whatever it is, is like you said, is the build up. When you take your audience into a journey from beginning to to an end on just not necessarily a roller coaster like but at least like some sort of like journey and a build up where you they they're they're they're feeling things changing when they're listening to the song. I think is what makes every type of song, no matter what genre, age, era, unique. >> Yeah. Absolutely. >> A big example of what you said that was actually really cool like how the hardest part of arranging is the bridges or the build ups. >> I wouldn't say it's the hardest part, but anyway keep going. >> But it's a very crucial part. Very crucial. Benny Freeman's um so that build up in the bridge Like for him I could tell like you could see like that's the highest he's been in the whole song. You could tell that the that's when the orchestra just go wakes up and boom you know like like and that's really the highlight for me in that song but you also it shows like how much it could change the momentum change the arrangement change the dynamic just by uh uh five second bridge build up to a chorus. >> Absolutely. Yeah. Well music is very powerful. It's a language. What else do you want to talk about? That's a lot about music. >> Yeah. >> You do politics. You do religion. >> Um well if if you're if you're comfortable with that I don't mind. Um but uh I do also want to delve into the Great Farbi uh project because um we did talk about it a little bit but >> I I have I'm happy to answer all your questions but it's it's not my passion on a on a podcast. I like already thinking about this all day. But anyway keep going. >> Okay so we'll do this quickly because I think I do want to highlight >> you want whatever you want. >> Yeah. But I do want to highlight because that was it is a big project. I mean you having all these singers join in and not only are you arranging and mixing up and dynamics and orchestra of those songs and different genres but also you're also composing a lot of new pieces right like for the first song is That 's not part of the niggun but it's something you're adding to it. So if you could tell me >> another example. You see that's an intro but it's not the intro that you would expect to hear from you saw a lamb which is brass and all that right? But it is an intro. It's just different different style. >> Yeah exactly. >> It's very hard to play that with a band because what are they what what is what is everyone supposed to do? It's very very specific. >> Right right. So um what what was that project like? Like was it always meant to be like a blend of the modern and the old and mixing it together and the type of singers? Was that something you found out into the project when you got into it? >> I've always been uh loved Chabad niggunim. I felt that I'm very attracted and very drawn to to the authenticity of them. Which again, I love but their music doesn't talk to me. The all the stuff I grew up with maybe yes, right? But when new songs come out it's it's where is it hitting me? I think I think is is is really good in that area and there's others coming up, you know, in that genre as well. So but we're always very authentic and so I always figured to myself like if I'm making an an album, it's going to be a remix on but at the same time I don't want to pervert them. They they're they're supposed to be and so what I try to do is to play in a new kind of way but keep the authentic original feel. Now it's up to the jury to decide if they think I succeeded in doing that but I think I did. I think like the the vocals the are all like sung by guys and and by choirs so the vocals are good and the music is modern but so is You know what? Back in 1940 there was no drum sets. You didn't have a snare and a and not every That's but all of that is is is modern inventions. Imagine having the first time someone brought a guitar to a to a Jewish wedding to a wedding, they probably wanted to throw it. What do you think Right? This is rock. This is rock and roll. So but then the said that they asked him what kind of music to do he said In other words the genre is the vessel. It's the clothing but the nigun to stay uh authentically a nigun. >> Yeah, 100% I think you did succeed in in a very good way. And also with like the little touches of like like the by the in for example or or you >> Yeah. >> Oh, really? >> Yeah. I when I was 12 years old I can or maybe it was 11. It was 11. I was Um I came here no couldn't have been cuz then why wouldn't the rally be being in a I don't know. It was in early in on base. Um I don't think it was So it must have been then. I was here for a few months. So from from uh until about base until about like right before the stroke before the stroke. So I uh back then Australia was the moon. And I heard there there's a kid from Australia here. Of course we're going to give him a so I got a by the And uh I put I sliced it into the uh into the album. And I have also I when I was my father my grandfather before he passed I had I recorded him singing I also sliced him into the album. >> Yeah. >> uh wherever I could put some personal touches and personal meaning I I didn't I tried not to lose that opportunity. >> But I think it was like I think the album if you want to like give it one word it was balance. Right? Like you have the balance of personal and technical. You have the balance of genre and and other genres and and orchestral and electric. Like you had a very good blend of everything. And also what I loved about the album the last point I want to do want to praise about it is that there was always change of momentum. You never felt like it was still for like a whole two three minutes on the same arrangement. It would change up whether it was instruments, a tempo, uh uh the amount of instruments playing at the time. Like there was always something changing with the arrangements. >> Right. Yeah. It's it's a very dynamic production. It's not supposed to be a dance I think a lot of people think, hey, I can't, you know. Everyone tells me they like to work out to it. They That's the Everyone likes to run to it or work out to it. It's very very good for running and working out because it does change that momentum. So you have the you it you come back and forth and you know and it has high moments and and and and relaxing moments and but there's always a beat. It's always driving and that never stops. So people I I got so many comments that people work out to it. But it's not supposed to be a dance album. That's not what it's supposed to be. >> Yeah. Also like when I did events in LEC for the kids, not necessarily dance things, but like like events like if we're having a party or we're having an event >> music. It's a good great It's a good make a great vibe in the background. Absolutely. >> And and it was also That was the main thing like for having that like >> It's a good album to drive to as well. >> Yeah. >> It's it it's it's not it's not crazy and it's that it puts you in a good mood. >> Very much so. Very much so. >> Yeah. >> I wanted to get into another thing that you got into that I'm very into from entertainment is your kids entertainment. You did something two years ago like a story tape or or or kids I think that was what they called something like that. I haven't listened to it, but I definitely would react to it on my channel later. Also but I remember also you were like in the when Living Torah was still in DVDs. I remember growing up and they had Exactly. There was the kids narration of the playing out and >> I did it for 10 years. Yeah. I I did 10 years worth of forced me to learn a every week. 10 years worth of not only just narrated them, I wrote the scripts. So I had to Yeah. I wrote the scripts, recorded them, acted in them. So that was definitely an experience. I haven't done it in a few years now. They don't do it anymore. They like they have a different format. >> Yeah, exactly. But if you somehow have them, you could easily add effects and music and just put them out as a weekly podcast type of thing, no? >> I I don't think so because it's it was really Firstly, it was an evolution. Like the later ones are better than the earlier ones and and I tried a very at the beginning we were trying to do something which is probably a mistake and that is to kind of follow the Rebbe's order but do it for kids. You can't do that. And so I don't know so look, if you have the subtitles and you're looking at the Rebbe and it might it makes more sense than just to to put them on their own as their own thing. Some of I I guess there's probably enough to make 50 episodes or 100 episodes out of the out of the 500 that we did but I don't know. Not I'm not like I'm looking forward. I don't look back. >> Yeah, exactly. >> And it's it doesn't excite me. I'm I'm I don't know that that that's the right format for it. And but it was also very much a learning. I don't know if the kids Anyway, who knows? Maybe it's a good idea. What was the other thing you asked about right before then? >> No, so we we were talking about the idea of doing kids entertainment like stories or narration. >> album that I did I have a have a minute to take it off Spotify. Basically, I have a studio and I have kids and sometimes I have to entertain them and one day I came up with this idea, why don't we record some stories together? And so I recorded and I have and and then I got them to voice some of the child actors and they're all excellent. They all did great great jobs. Really authentic, really nice, really cute. And we recorded it right here in the studio and I figured, okay, well, might as well put them on on Spotify. But I'm not sure it's a good idea because it dilutes the channel. Like my channel's music and I have these stories and the stories aren't that popular because I never advertised them. No one really listens. I they probably have a couple hundred plays on them. So I should probably remove them but I don't know. They're there right now. >> Unless unless you make like a separate brand of an artist like maybe a separate artist name or something >> So that but it's not something I'm I'm following up on. It's not like I'm doing stories every day. It was a one-time thing. I wrote volume one in case it took off, but it it didn't really take off and I can't blame like I didn't do literally told nobody about it, so no one even really knows. Um but it's I would do it by the way if I had time. This time is a commodity I don't have. I could easily put out a hundred stories in a year if I and and with 15 minutes >> Is it like the editing and putting together at the end? Is coming up with a certain recording it? What's like the most hardest part of it? >> There's many elements. I would say that it would probably take an average of 4 hours 4 to 5 hours to put out a 15 minute song a 15 minute story. And that would include finding the story, rewriting it um recording it adding sound effects uh and putting it up. It's probably 4 to 5 hours to story. >> I'm doing a story tape right now on my on on the little time I have and it's been taking me I've been working on it for 2 months and I barely got through a lot. But it's also like it's not just audio. I'm also adding a little graphics and stuff like that. So that's also but >> So firstly again, this is just audio, but secondly uh I don't want to I don't want to brag, but I have some skills in the studio and I also have I also have know have a vision. I know exactly what has to be done in the beginning and I know how long each thing should take and I also hate working slowly. So I I need to work fast. So just think about it. You find the story um rewriting it. I today I I don't even think I would have to. You could even use ChatGPT to really rewrite it and then you just do edit that. >> Yeah. >> I haven't tried it. I don't know if it's any good or not, but I haven't tried that specifically, but in theory you could do that. Recording my part I could do it in one take, maybe two takes. Um so uh recording the actual story, my part including getting into the studio, setting it half an hour to 45 minutes, editing it, including editing an hour, then bringing in the kids and doing their parts, another hour or so, then editing that. Um, yeah, so, you know, the adding the sound effects itself could take another hour, hour and a half. And that's custom sound effects like just doing things on the keyboard or finding the stuff off sound libraries. It shouldn't take so long. It shouldn't take you more than than four, five hours for 15 minutes. Honestly, if I was forced to, I would do I could do it in half that time, but it would also compromise the quality. >> Right, exactly. Yeah, that's that's really what it is. Um, did you was there any like story tapes that >> me let me just interrupt because I did this before AI, right? And it sounds creating my own music. Now you have the AI create the graphics, help it create the storyline. You can even use it for the voices, although you it's probably better to use your own voice at this point because it's more natural. Um, but you could use your voice and then it'll make it sound even better. Really like it'll change use your intonations and your accent, but it'll change the voice. Um, and then you don't even have to bring in voice actors. You do all of the parts. >> Yeah. >> And let them change the voice, you know? So in a certain way, things could be even easier today. >> 100% Uh, was there story tapes that you grew up with that were your that basically were like your highlight as a kid that you could think of or is this something that >> Dr. Meados is great. >> Yeah. >> Tuki and Kifi were great. Uh, no, I mean, I'm sure they were, but those are the ones I remember. >> Yeah, yeah, yeah. >> They were funny. They and they they were they were just great entertainment. >> It was also funny cuz um it wasn't last week or two weeks ago, three weeks ago, it was And so for fun of my status, I asked people what voices should I imitate and I would imitate them and they would basically say, oh, that's really good or whatever. Cuz I love I love voices and I love imitating them and I and that's also why I'm kind of doing the story tape also is the the kind of blend of >> tape about? >> It's the story of Rabbi Shimon It's a very short story, but it's a story of Rabbi Shimon when his students wanted to get him a donkey uh to make it easier for him to work >> With the uh >> diamond, yeah. >> So the and so that story is not more than 10 15 minutes. >> No, yeah, 15 yeah, yeah. >> But I have a I have a challenge for you. It's Wednesday October 21st >> Yeah. >> I'm challenging you to have this thing out by Wednesday, October 28th. Just do it. Here's the thing. Trust me on this. If you do it once if you honor this deadline or we say due date, right? The Rebbe used to use the word due date. If you are want to honor that that due date um it'll change your life. Do it. You'll see. Suddenly you'll realize this didn't have to take me months. Didn't have to take me so long. I was just getting caught up in the wrong things. Right? I would even go as as far as to say like if it's not out by October 28th, just dump the project. That in other words, all or nothing. Go all or nothing. And then you'll see you'll do it. You'll You'll get it done. If you don't get it done, it means you don't really You'll never get it done because it won't be that important. But if you get it done, you'll say, hey, one second. I really did do that in three days. Why is this Okay, now let me do the next one. And then suddenly you get to a point where I don't know what you do for a living, how much time you have, but if you want to If you like putting out stories, that's what you want to do, so do one a week. Take four hours a week, four or five hours a week. You have AI. You can do everything. Take four or five hours a week and put out 50 stories this year. >> That You know what? That will be a challenge. That's going to be great. Um Challenge accepted accepted. There you go. Okay, so so next Wednesday okay >> Next Wednesday. The Rebbe once wished somebody Okay? What that means is you should have and time management. And to me, I don't know you so well, but this sounds like a time management issue. Not a complicated thing to put out. >> No, 100% but I'll still do the challenge because A I'm basically two thirds done and B if I have it out it's going to be like a great because even if I have a lot of things it's going to be a cool thing to have your mind off of if I'm focusing on that okay what's up with that project and kind of it's it's almost like um when you learn Gamara for like five hours in Yeshiva and I was in post full and and on Hala Rabbi Ben Simon he said we every he did this thing where you learn Mishnice for half hour in smack in the middle because it's even and he there was no quiz there was no something it was just come to his share you learn Mishna and it was like and his thing was because you're learning Gamara for five hours your brain doesn't have any sort of brain break so to speak so that Mishna is for a half hour 45 minutes was a really thing so it's a great way to like instead of being stuck on one thing you have something to really be passionate about to bring it out. Quick update the story tape is out and it did come out on October 28th on the deadline that we made. It is called the priceless donkey over on YouTube and on Spotify go check it out and enjoy. Now back to the episode. We talked about the from entertainment and when it comes to kids tapes or tapes and narrations um but you also narrate things in general whether it's like advertisements or or or document sort of documentary style type of ways um is that something that just that it's just like people just like came to you was it something that you enjoy like how did that come about? >> It's called voice over um and it it just happened automatically it's not something I ever chased um it's not something I pursue it's not something I need or want more of but people come to me and I'll do it. So how did it happen probably what happened was is is somebody asked me to record somebody doing something and then when they were done they did a terrible job I said I think I could just do this better. In fact you know what I think the first one was I out an album. Um, for for Shliach in Florida. His last name is Raben. Aaron Raben. Um. >> Oh, he's a good friend of mine. >> Right. So I put a He has an album called the the Sing Along Sitter. >> Oh, okay. Okay. >> actually my first album. That album is my most successful album, but I made the mistake of implicitly not implicitly, but basically I don't make any money on it. Um, the but it's it's it I can tell you it has at least 5 6 million streams a year that I know of, which is pretty pretty amazing. >> that's the one where Ellie Marcus and Benny Hershkowitz are on? >> Yeah. And Uh, it it real just because of that album alone, my my listening uh the people who listen to You know, Spotify tells you how many people listen to music is right up there with some of the the really busy artists because it's it's a it's an album that that's listened to at all times. Everybody loves it. It's a It's a morning sitter album. And I'm just going to go on the app right now just because you can see exactly how many people are listening at any given time. >> Yeah. >> I don't know if you can see Right now, 34 people are listening. And it's not even the It's the afternoon. Right? In the last 7 days, 103,000 streams on that album. That's in 7 days. >> That is crazy. >> Right? >> That's crazy. >> Yeah, this is the This is Spotify for artists. They don't uh You know, not everyone gets to gets that one. >> also that was something that was connected with a a sitter they have, but I don't know if people still use that sitter, but that album just has its own feet. >> Yeah. So how did we get onto that? >> We were talking about voice over and narration and how that started. >> at the very end, they had a song with brachos. And we had somebody who was supposed to narrate during the song. This is the bracha you make on this. This is the bracha you make on that. This is the bracha you make on that. And then it was horrible. It didn't work out. So I just said when he left, I said I'll just do it. And uh and uh and that might have been one of the first where I did that. But uh then people started calling me. I think I'm the voice if you call the the what's it called? There there's this organization if you don't have children they help you something. >> Oh, >> Yeah. I think I'm the voice on their on their call center. If you call >> Oh, wow. >> For all the options if you want this option one option two press this press that. But then I because I don't do it for a living they're like okay how much do we owe you? I'm like It's fine. You know and then they call me back two years later oh we want to do a new options can you do it? Yeah, okay. >> Do you get technical with those voice overs too or not really? >> What do you mean technical? >> Like if you do you listen back a few times and do a few takes or not really as much? >> You always have to listen back and you you know some there's there's always going to be parts that you get right on the first take and there's always going to be parts that you that you need to do three or four times and there's always going to be the part you thought was perfect and they come back and they say you pronounced it wrong. So it always goes through a few revisions. But it's not a big job. Yeah. >> And you also hosted a lot of events like as MC. Was that because of the voiceover stuff that basically came to that is that something >> I've been blessed with certain talents and one of them is I'm not afraid of stages and I'm not I've never had butterflies on stage and I've never had a problem getting on stage and talking off the cuff even if there's tens of thousands of people in the audience which I've done. I always like to be prepared. I don't I don't like to do off the cuff. But I've had certain opportunities here in Crown Heights Hako for example very some really big jobs that I was involved in in in producing and in MCing. The the most important one to me was actually October 7 two days later It an interesting story fascinating basically I I'm very close with Shimi Weinbaum, and I saw him on I said, what are we going to do? What are we going to do? We have to do something because people already were used to us putting on events, you know? >> Right. >> And and he I remember it was and he's just looking at me like I wasn't there, like looking right through me. So I saw he was traumatized by all that had happened and all the news that was coming in. I said, listen, I'm on your team and just let I'm letting you know I'm available to make something happen. And so what happened was is that he a few hours after he calls me. He says, we just got a stage. We're doing it. Put together a band and and and let's do it. I said, great. So I remember I couldn't sleep that night. It was the first night I've suddenly I I over I had made sure not to listen too much of the news. Now I'm listening to the news and I see the telegrams and I see the videos and I was just going down the rabbit hole in the wrong way. That night got up very late the next day and like, oh my gosh, I got to put this together. And then so I finally got the band together and the at about 3:00 Shimi calls me and says, honey, we need to work on a script. We don't have a script. I said, what are you talking about? We have a script. What do we do all day? He says, no, no, no, I need to do it with you. We're going to do it. We'll sit down for an hour. So we sat down. I'm sitting at the same desk I'm sitting right here. And I Shimi knew all of this he knew exactly the the format. And I said, Shimi, tell me what you want to say. I'll write it up for you. I I'm pretty good with writing and and English and etc. I'll write it. I'll write up the whole script for you and then you'll be able to do it. So he's telling me this and then we want to transition to this. Right, right, right for an hour straight just an hour. It comes to the ends of an hour. I said, Shimi, I got to go because I have to I I have to meet the band and we have to do sound check. So he says, but then when are you going to rehearse this? I said, what do you mean? He He but but you're the MC. I said, I I thought I thought we're doing this for you. You're the MC. He says, honey, I I I can't be the MC. Listen to my voice. And he was like, right? I can't do it. He says, you're the MC. You're doing it. Sound like, ah, I guess I'm going to I'll lead the band and be the MC. Okay, that's going to be great. So um we hadn't even finished writing it up. There was still one more segment to write. I said, Shimmy, write it up, put it in the notes. I'll look at it before I go up, and we'll do it. And so what happened was is the first time that I rehearsed those notes were right up there on the stage in front of 20,000 people. Um I had my iPad in my hand, so I'm referring to it, making sure all always to keep eye contact with the crowd, but you know. And uh and it was very successful because it was very raw, it was very real, it was very you know, there was no playing games. And uh and we hit the spot. So I think that was uh and then I was kind of embarrassed. I was like, what right did I have to to stand up in front of the whole community? >> Right. >> I don't know why. I just that's how I felt, and I'm not it's probably it was the wrong thing to do, not even probably. I I went back to my home and I didn't come out for a week. I just you know, unless I had to. Maybe I must have had some work or something, but you know, a couple of days I just locked myself up and just hid, and that was it. But yeah, but I think that that the that that particular event was the most powerful. That's the one that wow. You know, I hope I have the opportunity to do those kinds of events again, like but obviously in much better circumstances. >> Yeah, obviously. >> Yeah. But um was that did that moment change for you at all, how you produced or go uh kind of think about how you do this in the future kind of or not really? >> Not really. I've always looked at production as as as as a as a communicate a form of communication and I have sometimes hit heads with other producers or other uh artists because they don't look at it that way. There is for them it's much more functional. >> Yeah. >> But I want anytime that there's a song or there's a speech or there's a production or there's a play or something to be thinking in terms of the impact it's having on the soul and the heart and the mind of the listener beyond the entertainment value. So that's something I've always um been into sometimes to my detriment because again like like you can have some some pretty heated stylistic uh disagreements on this kind of thing. Yeah. Yeah, but that's that's always been what's important to me. >> So back to what we were saying about MCing um is this something that you kind of enjoy to like pursue in a way because you do it very not very often but often enough where people recognize that you're doing it. >> Yeah, I do enjoy doing it. I think I'm good at it. I enjoy being on stage. I have a a different energy when I'm on stage MCing than what I have on when I'm on stage performing music. In fact my I'm much more relaxed, much more myself, much more authentic I think when I'm MCing and not just MCing like welcome this and this singer you know like I don't mean MCing I mean I mean talking. I'm much more relaxed in that and and much more powerful and authentic I think when I'm doing that than when I'm even playing music. When I'm playing music I have to constantly remind myself you know put in the groove, put in the movement, you know smile etc. When I'm public speaking my smile is automatic. I don't have to think about it. >> Nice. All right, so you said that we could get deep in this. Can I get controversial with you for a bit? So on this uh channel when whether it's on my reactions or my live streams where we talk where we react to longer content like concerts or interviews, I always bring this up on the idea that when orchestras go on stage and you have and you have like a 10-piece band or even like a 5-piece band, whatever, you have bands, you have musicians, you could have every aspect. But for some reason, despite all that, on the moment that they could play from scratch, like them playing the music, the whether it's a producer or someone in charge of the band, they end up playing pre-recorded soundtracks or even play the the original album music without the voice and they just and not that the band doesn't play 100% but they just play on top of that. For me as an audience member, when I'm watching this stuff, I so want to see the cuz I'm not talking about like bands that are starting out or bands that are small. I'm talking about like like big bands that even have 20-piece bands like in concerts or in gigs. >> And so your question is why don't they why don't they just be authentic? >> Yeah. Really, why can't they just be authentic with the with the music that they're playing? Cuz if you are an audience member is watching a band, I want to hear the band. >> There's a very good reason for it. And uh and that's what I I do it too. The reason is because when you're listening to the original album on the um on the you know on the on Spotify or on CD, however you listen to your music, 24/7. Right? So when you're listening to your your music, you're getting used to a certain sound. You're not just listening to you're not just listening to uh to the singer, you're not just connecting to the singer and to the the song, you're connecting to the arrangement as well. And the arrangement becomes a big part the same way like like you love the intros, like you were talking about before, you love the Mona and the You you get you love the the particular arrangement. Now, the problem is is that you cannot replicate that on the stage for a couple of reasons. Number one, there's at least 12 tracks of guitars in these arrangements. You're not bringing 12 guitars to a concert. >> Right. >> Okay? They take the same guitar and play it on the left, play it on the right, play it on the center, play it off, put it a little off tune, right? So to create this big surround sound in your headphones, right? When you're listening to it. Um then they have all these synths. And these synths are going through filters and arpeggiators and through all sorts of um you know, just let's just call them filters that that that manipulate the sound in a certain way, which is not realistic to do live. Firstly, because it's very complex, it's very programmed, and secondly, because you'd only again, you'd need to have like tons of people sitting there with keyboards. And so one song needs 10 guitars, the other one needs 10 keyboards but no guitars. And and it becomes uh very and then there's all the production. Okay? So when you play the guitar on the stage, you're just listening to the guitar. When you're listening through the album, it's gone through effects, it's gone through compression, it's gone through through all sorts of guitar pedals and all sorts of And then not only that, sometimes you have the guitar is reacting with the kick with the kick drum. So where the kick drum goes, the guitar will kind of come out. >> Right. >> you have this pulsing sound. And all of that is impossible I shouldn't say impossible, but near impossible to to perform live in a um consistent and and efficient manner. So what they will do is they will take some of the elements and and play them along with the band. But the band is still playing. It's still the the usually the drums are playing, the bass is playing, the piano is playing, the strings and the brass are for sure playing, the guitar is playing. It's just certain other elements that are in there that are also playing, certain instruments that they don't have on that stage. And I think I think it's a good thing. It's it's it enhances the it enhances the performance. Don't look at it as a playback. Look at it as we're DJing with our band. In other words, it's another musician who's showing up and using his skill to DJ and you have a live band and a DJ working together. And it's so it's you get the best of both worlds. That's not so controversial. I thought you were going to come up with something controversial. >> Well well I said controversial because it's because it in one way it is like cuz I don't want to say that these people are authentic, but then I can't help myself when I'm seeing through the mindset of like cuz like they didn't really like for example Has concerts. I know we don't really want to compare the old and new, but I'm just giving this as a point. Like when Has when you saw Lambs Orchestra and you know Orchestra would play our free songs, they played from scratch. They had their >> was different that was different kind of music then, right? All of the hits today are not made with a regular drum kit and bass guitar. They're made with electronic drums. They're made with synths. They're made with 50 guitars. So you can't compare. It's yeah if if all you have to do was play Oven Fried oldies, no one would no one need to bring tracks for that and they don't. They don't bring tracks for that. They're bringing tracks for the new stuff. >> So you're saying that most likely if if singers are singing older songs, they're probably not doing what you were saying just now. >> Correct. >> Yeah. >> So like if let's say Yaki Sweki was singing his first album versus his most recent, it's going to be most likely when they're singing songs from the first first album, they're not going to do what they do for the >> because sometimes he like I've worked with Riaka so I know his material. I don't know it very well, but I've I've had the chance to work with him and he sent me all his files. I have some of his stems. I have his sheet music. So so no he'll he'll rearrange some of his songs for concert, you know, to to put in nice effects or nice synths. But again, it's still the band that's playing. >> Right. Right. Interesting. >> Yeah. >> Um Okay, so you know what? With that in mind, I said I'll pay attention to next time I do it. Okay, so last question I ask >> Don't judge it. Just see if you're enjoying it. >> Yeah. >> comes to a concert, just see if you can enjoy it. Okay. judge oh, it's not authentic. It's just figure out is the singer touching me? Is he touching me in my heart? And if and if yes, then it's a good performance. If no, it doesn't matter stem stems or no stems. In other words, those recordings we call them stems. Um they're you know, that's the most important part is and Yishai Ribo, I think he shows up with his own band. He flies with his own band. You don't get more authentic than that. And they're also using tracks. >> Right. Right. But then like then why why is it that they have the back back uh background vocals from those albums too with the tracks? Why add that? >> Um again, I can't talk for every performance, but um I do that at weddings sometimes. I don't have a choir and I'll put in the choir because it just adds a wow factor. It's an it's a it's a is the the the the sound of many people singing together in a choir is a very very special sound. It's a very nice sound and if you can throw that in behind the singer, it just adds a three dimensions to the to the what was it? Two-dimensional performance. So I'm all for it. >> All right. You know what? You opened my perspective to something new. >> Now ask me something really controversial. Like what's the most controversial thing you can ask? Let's finish off on that. >> Who did you vote for? Did you >> In the Israeli elections coming up, who would I vote for? It's a tough one, though. Over here, it doesn't make whatever. It doesn't matter. >> Yeah. >> I mean >> Uh so last question that I ask all my guests at the end of their >> you just you just get to we could talk about Mamy and all that. That'd be interesting. Um Um, some interesting I have some interesting but that's not for a different time. We'll have to get on a different one. >> You know what's funny? I >> way, I did a podcast two weeks ago with a guy who's an anti-Zionist, anti, you know, I told you about it, right? And I have a very different perspective. I think that we as Jewish people should not be crying anti-Semitism and victimhood, etc. I think we should come in strong and proud, engage with these people in a respectful way. And I think that uh that coming in strong and coming in as a boss, that better mensch, and engaging in a way that doesn't whine and winch as we say in Australia, >> Yeah. >> um is is so much more powerful and effective. >> Yeah, I mean conversation and dialogue is the key. I mean I remember I said >> it's a fine line. I'm not saying that you should invite Mamdani to your Hanukkah party, but at the same time um at the same time >> up, there's no reason to >> not even saying that. I'm not saying I'm I'm what I'm saying is don't be a victim in the story. Don't convey look at this, you know, just be a boss. >> Yeah. >> be be proud. Look at how the Rebbe approached anti-Semitism. How did he approach it? He never fought anti-Semitism, never spoke about it as far as I can tell. Uh Gem came out with a video a few years ago, my understanding is that the Rebbe did not engage anti-Semitism. His entire approach to anti-Semitism was be a proud Jew and engage the anti-Semite where it helps, where there's a mutual benefit. >> Yeah. Yeah, and it's also like um Gem when Mamdani was being elected and Gem came out with a video of saying how a while back went to a controversial politician in New York and someone asked the Rebbe how can you send Bachram to that guy? He said he said that all politicians always change your mind, but it's up to us to be ourselves and authentic and to be with and to to, like you said, be at the forefront of it, not being the victims of it. >> I read the letter. Um, I >> think it was a little different to that. The story, the background was a little different. >> saying the >> Um, but what the what the Rebbe was basically saying is don't write everyone off as an anti-Semite just because they're anti-Israel. And in fact, there's a story with Alan Dershowitz where he was he was very angry with the Rebbe, wrote an angry letter to the Rebbe, how did the how the Chabad uh allow a certain senator to walk into their event? And uh and then Alan Dershowitz and the Rebbe replied and the Alan Dershowitz says the Rebbe was right because that guy ended up changing his mind uh and becoming the most pro-Israel uh person in the Senate. And whereas you look at what's happening today and they're saying anti-Semite, anti-Semite, anti-Semite to every single person. And let me tell you, a lot of people there not anti-Semites that they're calling anti-Semites. They might be saying things we don't like, but they're not anti-Semites. They're just saying what they're hearing. That's the perspective they're hearing. They're against Israel. Just because someone saw on TikTok that every single person he respects is saying that Israel is a bad place and so therefore he thinks that. That doesn't make him an anti-Semite. That makes him a person who's getting bad info. >> Yeah. >> So we shouldn't be calling them anti-Semites. We should be talking to them, embracing these people and being friendly with them. That's my opinion. That was more a controversial question, you see? >> Yeah. Yeah, exactly. >> you go. >> Um, so last question uh that I ask all my guests, what is something in film entertainment? Well, I guess you delved into all aspects of film entertainment, so you probably have a broader scope than just music. What's something in film entertainment that we could be doing that we're not doing enough? >> Mm. I want to answer quick because I need to go, but I also want to answer uh profoundly. >> Not profoundly, but yeah. >> Listen, I need to think about it and I'm sure that after I get off this call, I'll think of something. I'll say this generally speaking. I think that music is is very very interesting. Music is the only form of work under the sun that is considered avodah. In other words, when you're davening, that's a avodah. When you're learning Torah, that's a avodah. But when you're growing a tree for your esrog or you're baking matzahs, that's a work so that you can do a mitzvah. It's not itself the avodah. When you're carving you know the the the the crush in for the mishkan or you're you're you're you're molding the bricks, the stones for the Beis HaMikdash, yes, you're doing very important work, holy work, but that's not the actual avodah Shira and Zimra, singing and music is the only form of work that is actually considered avodah besides right? In other words, sprinkling sprinkling, shechting, pouring the wine, there's other things which are considered avodah, you know, doing but then and then you have Shira. And so I really think that that singers and musicians should lean into this fact including into this including myself that the that the music that we do is really a form of avodah the same way that davening is. And therefore, when we perform and when we create music, it's not just created for entertainment, it's created to think not just how do I entertain, but how do I touch the neshama of the listener. And I think that's what separates the good musicians and the good singers and the good performers in this business, especially nowadays, to the others. Everybody knows which ones feel real and which ones just feel like wedding songs. I just put down the wedding Even though I in it, right? Well, there's something else to it because there's because being dancing is also a real form of right? So, I'm talking about the music itself, the composition of the music. When someone's coming up with a song, um is there real I think that Ishay Ribo leads the way in that. He has one song called which I could listen to >> I I I did a reaction on it on camera the first time I heard it. It it was unbelievable. >> I could listen to that on repeat. It's it's it like for the first time someone made a song that really makes you feel like you're in the and with all of the awe and the tension and the unknowns and the and the hope and the apprehension and the victory. >> Yeah. >> Right? The victory, the success, the all of that in one song. And it's about the No one else can do that. No one else can do that, but that's the that 's the that's what people should be aiming for. That's I think we could do more of. >> Well said, 100%. And thank you so much, and yes, and I always tell my guests I always tell my guests at the end, thank you so much, and also especially thank you for being a part of my childhood and my inspiration in somewhat in some capacity of me growing up with your albums and your composition, especially your energy at weddings, at every wedding that came in town, and and being an inspiration into pursuing music, but also music very very thoughtfully and calculatively and and and I saw I just wanted to thank you for that. >> Thank you, Oziel, for having me. Thank you for your perseverance, and I'm looking forward to hearing your new album in 7 days. >> In 7 days exactly.