Chulin 46

Today's daf is Chulin daf mem vav. And we are at the sixth wide line on daf mem hey amud bet, the two dots, nishbar ha shedera. Today's daf is being learned le ilui nishmas Aharon ben Yibodel le Chaim Tovim, Reb Naftali Hertz. So we're moving along here in perek eilu treifos, dealing with different treifos, clearly very technical daf. And specifically, the mishna mentioned that nishbar ha shedera v'nifsak ha chutz shel ha is an example of a treifa. So nishbar ha shedera, in the event that the spine of the animal broke, v'nifsak ha chutz shel ha, and the spinal cord that's contained within the spine tore, the halacha is that would render the animal a treifa. Says the Gemara, Tanna Rabbanan, we learned in a braisa, chutz ha shedera she nifsak be ruba. De Rebbi, Rebbi says that when it says in the mishna that nishbar ha shedera v'nifsak ha chutz is a treifa, what does nifsak mean? It means if the majority was nifsak. So if the majority of the spinal cord tore, that's when it's considered a treifa. Reb Yaakov Reb Yaakov said, "Af ilu nikav, that even if it only has a nekav, there's just a hole inside of it, but it didn't become [snorts] severed in the majority, that too would be enough in order to render it a a treifa." Hoy Rebbi Reb Yaakov. And then the Gemara says that Rebbi, who was meikel, who said that the chutz ha shedera she nifsak only be ruba would be a treifa, but if it only has a nekav, he was once machmir like Reb Yaakov. Amra Reb Yaakov said, "Ein halacha ke Reb Yaakov." Stating that even though Rebbi himself was once machmir like Reb Yaakov, but that was a chumra yesaira. You want to know what the halacha is? Ein halacha ke Reb Yaakov. What is the halacha? Chutz ha shedera she nifsak be ruba, then and only then would it be considered a treif or common ruboy. How do you define ruboy? Rav Amarav said ruboy it means that the majority of the or, the membrane, the skin that surrounds the spinal cord or some say that it's not ruboy but rather it's ruboy. So what would the ruboy be? So ruboy over here means the tissue that makes up the actual substance of the spinal cord. So if we can visualize this, the actual spinal cord is what's referred to as ruboy. That's surrounded by a layer of skin. That's what's referred to as ruboy. And those two components together make up the hot shower. The hot shower is encased in a bone that's known as the shower itself. But either way when we talk about even the sheer of ruboy, so there was a is it ruboy or is it ruboy? The more it spins the more it spins. That said ruboy ruboy is ruboy. So if ruboy is a problem certainly ruboy is going to be a problem. And the reason says is because to the extent that ruboy already was so it's inevitable that ruboy is going to be ruboy. So if you're telling me that ruboy ruboy is a problem then there's no question that ruboy is also a problem because every ruboy will eventually be a ruboy. Ruboy but ruboy ruboy ruboy ruboy what would be if you have ruboy but ruboy was what would be the over there? Meaning you can't say that because ruboy was that means that ruboy will be ruboy. Like we said in the reverse where ruboy was it's inevitable that ruboy will be cuz that's just natural. Right the protects the ruboy. So if the oil nifsak, the ruboy will be nifsak. But it doesn't go in the reverse. The moach is underneath the oil. So just because the moach is nifsak, it doesn't mean that the oil is going to be nifsak. So the man wants to know what's the halacha. Meaning according to the madama that says roiv oil oil, is it also roiv oil oil or is it dafka roiv oil oil? What would be the halacha regarding roiv moach oil? Again, if you hold roiv moach oil, then it's a moot point to know what roiv oil oil will be because every roiv oil oil will eventually be a roiv moach oil. But in the reverse it's not true. So the Gemara says, according to madama that said roiv oil oil, what would be the halacha regarding roiv moach oil? He said the Gemara madama Nilvi. So that's not a name that you see every day, but Nilvi said Amra in the name of Rav Huna Rubasha Amru that when Chazal said roiv, what they meant was roiv oil oil. What about the moach oil? This is the question. Zeh loy may loy may it makes no difference. So roiv moach oil is kosher than roiv oil oil, but roiv oil oil does not include roiv moach oil. Dostem bar Abin have you ask him made the ra. Rav Nosson bar Abba was once sitting in the presence of Rav Bodak bar roiv oil oil. He was bodak roiv oil oil and then afterwards he bodak roiv moach oil. And then he started being bodak roiv moach oil. Amaleisa Rav told him im roiv oil oil kayem moach zeh in a mile over in a moira that the halacha is roiv oil oil and it's only roiv oil oil. So as long as the roiv oil oil is there, I don't really care what's going to be as it relates to the roiv moach oil. So the bottom line is what's the very very first part of the daf >> [snorts] >> we're dealing with the treif in the Mishnah of Nishbar Hashedra and nifsak the chud of the shadra. And the question is what is nifsak chud shadra mean? Two questions. The first question is does it have to be roiv of the chud shadra that was nifsak or if it was nikev as long as there was a nikev, then it itself is going to be okay. The second question is on the side that it's roiv, what does roiv mean? Is it roiv oil oil or is it roiv moach oil? Oh, and by the way, if you hold it's rov oyre, what would be by rov michoi? And if you hold it's rov michoi, what would be by rov oyre? One thing the Gemara said very clearly is that if you hold that it's rov michoi kolshkin rov oyre, because if it's nifsak rov oyre, inevitably it will also be nifsak rov michoi. What about in the reverse? That was a shaila, but what seems to emerge from the Gemara is that if you hold it's rov oyre, it's staff rov oyre. I don't care if it's also nifsak rov michoi. So said the Gemara. More about the chuta shidra. Omar Rabba bar bar [snorts] chana Omar Rabbi Yochanan Levi. Rabba bar chana said in the name of Rabbi Yochanan Levi in this marech, in the event that the tissue that makes up the chuta shidra became a liquid, possul, it's going to be possul. Nis masmeis, if it didn't literally become a liquid, but Rashi says what happened was it softened to the point that the animal was no longer able to stand with its spinal cord, possul, that too is going to be possul. So nis marech is possul and nis masmeis is possul. Eizo hu hamrocha ve eizo hu hamsasa? So the Gemara explains what we just said. Hamrocha kolshin nishpachin kikitan, that's so liquid that you could literally pour it out like you'd pour a glass of water. What does masmisa mean? So that's kolshin niyocha lami, that means what it's not so liquid that you can mamash be shoifichin kikitan, but at the same time it's liquidy enough, it's soft enough that you eat it in a niyocha lami. Now Rashi asks a little bit of an obvious question, and that is if you're going to tell me that nis masmeis is possul, kolshin niyocha lami, it's kolshin again kal vachomer ben binayan shel kal vachomer, nis marech is possul, kolshin nishpachin kikitan. Rabbi, you tell me if it's just a little bit soft, that's already enough for it to be possul, then certainly if it's completely liquid, there is no spinal cord, so obviously it can't stand. So if that's the case, for sure it should be possul. So Rashi says 100% absolutely enoch chinami. The only thing is these are very obscure words, and we're not 100% sure what the words are. So it had it only said one of these two words in this one in this I would have said to fast the faster the faster the faster it probably means if it's completely liquid but if it's all not. So the reason we had to say both was shall all the people that are a farmers and don't really know what these things are. So therefore I'm going to tell you there's two types of there's two types of and I got the message. I got that if it's completely liquid and even if it's not completely liquid it's still going to be okay. So came as he's going to have in more than one place in today's he has a classic and he only called what would be if the didn't become a liquid it didn't become soft but at the same time it became stiff and hard which is almost the opposite but because of that it can't stand. What's the meaning the of and this is because the is not functioning it's not facilitating what it's supposed to facilitate to allow the animal to have the bone structure that it needs to you know get around and be an animal. So if that's the case maybe if the spinal cord was affected in the reverse maybe it would be the same or maybe no maybe it stopped going happening in this way where it was that it's going to be possible. If however it happened of the maybe not and the says this is something we will not know until tells us what the is. They only the continues on this in the they said this is so if it's this then it's going to be possible. If however it's then it's going to be what is this the Rashi it means that some of the tissue was nismasmais alone. some of it somehow got out on its own. So the halacha is in that instance it's going to be kosher. If it's nismasmais it softens completely then it's going to be possul. If it's nismasmais that already is going to be okay. Interesting Rashi. Rashi says that why did Beirav say nismasmais possul and nismasmais kosher? Really the only chiddush that they're saying is is that nismasmais is kosher. We know already that nismasmais is possul. Amri Beirav nismasmais possul nismasmais kosher. So Rashi, this is just the the practical ideas that you sometimes find scattered in a block Gemara and that is had it just said nismasmais kosher I might have thought that really nismasmais is kosher, right? Because let's be honest it's not so hard to confuse your nismasmaises and your nismasmaises. So therefore had it said simply nismasmais kosher I would have said oh one second it must be a machlokes. Amri Rebbi Shimon ben Levi nismasmais possul. Amri Beirav nismasmais kosher. So again walcheitzini leibon of all the people that aren't farmers and these things are all obscure too. So now we understand there's something called a nismasmais and that I agree is possul like Rebbi Shimon ben Levi said. We're just coming to be meisev that there's also something called a nismasmais not with a samach with a zayin and nismasmais that is going to be kosher. But the Gemara asks a kashe on the meisa. Rebbi Shimon ben Levi omer beheima she nismasmais maycha beheima where the maycha was nismasmais treifa. It's going to be considered a treifa. So that's a pretty good meisa straight out. Not that way not nismasmais kosher rather nismasmais treifa. But the Gemara says it's not fair. Hi hi nismasmais itma. As we just mentioned easy to confuse your nismasmaises and your nismasmaises. So when we said that if it's nismasmays, it's a trayfa, it was a typo. It was a mistake. What it meant was nismasmays is a trayfa because nismasmays is actually going to be kosher. It says the more any I'll ask you a kasha on this. For Levi also be misses of Levi was once in a bathhouse. Khaz who got for he saw a person that tied the rasha. He saw he banged his head and something really bad happened to him. He had a serious injury. Omar and Levi remarked. As she says, he was like very sad for what happened. He says, "Oy, nismasmays maycha the day." So sad, this person just had a on nismasmays. Now, it was clear that Levi was saying that because of that his prognosis was very bleak. So, the more says love the way didn't he probably mean that he's not going to live? So, you see from here that nismasmays is a trayfa. Now, he was talking about a person not an animal, but you see that nismasmays is a form of trayfa. I said like what he meant to say was what he meant to say was that he had some sort of a head injury that was going to affect his nervous system, which was going to somehow take away his ability to be able to have children, and that's why he gave the cracks that he gave. Yeah, true. He saw some bleak prognosis, but it was not that he was going to be a trayfa because in the world of trayfas nismasmays in contract in nismasmays is actually not something that renders a person trayfa. Okay, more about the shidra. And if you think this was technical, we haven't seen anything yet. How far down does the shidra go? Now, the question about is not a scientific question because for that just shut an animal open it up and you'll see. The question is at what point is the shidra considered a shidra so that the of nismasmays what that should is going to apply? And at what point do we say this is no longer considered part of the chuta shidra, so that if something happens to it, it's not going to be okay. So, just explain this a little bit better. The chuta shidra really goes through the entire animal. It goes like from the head area all the way down to the tail area. The shaila that the Gemara is pondering out loud is whether or not that entire area of chuta shidra is considered chuta shidra in the halacha of treifus, or maybe there's a part of the chuta shidra that's more crucial to the life of the animal. So, over there if it's nifsak, the halacha is going to be that the animal is going to be a treifa. But, maybe there's a point on the chuta shidra where we say even if it's nifsak, it's not going to be an issue. And that's the question of ad hechan chuta shidra. Says the Gemara Amar Rav Yehuda Amar Shmuel, Rav Yehuda said in the name of Shmuel ad bein ha perashas. It's it's until the area of bein ha perashas. Now, we'll see a more detailed definition of what exactly bein ha perashas means, but just to start this high level, so if you see a picture of the chuta shidra, so the chuta shidra is a chot, right? It's a string. And at some point it starts branching off. So, there's a point where you have clusters of branches that protrude out of the sides of the chuta shidra. So, essentially what Rav Yehuda said in the name of Shmuel, that you want to know up until what point the chuta shidra is so sensitive that if it's nifsak chuta shidra we're dealing with this major issue, it's up until the bein ha perashas. The perashas are those branches. So, once you get to the area where those branches are, it's at that point that there's going to be an issue. Says the Gemara Rav Nachman bar Yitzchak Amar Rav Nachman Amar Rav Nachman Amar Rav Nachman Amar Rav Nachman once wanted to go to the town of Be Chozai. Also the commentary of Rav Yehuda, and he went first to Rav Yehuda, then he went to gezegnzich with the Rebbe, I don't know. He went first to Rav Yehuda Amar Rav Nachman, and he was by Rav Yehuda he told him lich v'li Amar bein ha perashas zeicha. You know, I know there's some mesorah from Shmuel that the hot shadra up until the ben a perosha is is very sensitive. So that nifsak would render into a treif but once you get past that point then already not. So could you please demonstrate to me the area of ben a perosha's? Amale said he told him, "So I see like diva achila." So he want a demonstration? No problem. So he said why don't you bring a g'day right today you know there's a swarum and books but now this is old school. So you want to see it? Bring a g'day. I'm going to show it to you. I see like this man is he brought him a fat g'day. Amale believe it he says I can't find these a ben a shmoshes. It's lost in middle of all the all the fat. I can't find it. Amale idea just can't locate it. I see like he says all right let me bring you another one. So you're going to be compensated. He brought one that was like super skinny. Amale told him believe in favor idea. He said the hip bone is protruding too much. That's what Rashi says. As a result it's I can't see it either. Amale says you know what don't bring me a third g'day because this is going nowhere fast. He said no let me explain to you I'd rather tomorrow. Let's open up a tomorrow and let's do it that way. Let me tell you what Shmuel said until the first place the first set of these perosha's of these branches so again towards the tail end pun intended of the hot shadra so the hot shadra will start branching out but there's clusters of them. It happens once and then there's more hot shadra it happens again and then there's more hot shadra it happens again. So you can have all these clusters. So until the first one treif it's going to be a treif. Any issue is a treif. Now when we say until the first one is it the ad chlav or is it ad v'lo ad chlav? So that's going to be the tomorrow shaila in a minute. But the bottom line is until the first one treif. Shlishis if it's already by the third cluster k'sheira that's for sure. As relates to the area of the second cluster, any of the day that I already don't know. Since it until the first one, anything that you have is a treif, meaning a nifsak was going to be a problem. By the third area where the third cluster is, it's going to be kosher. If it's by the second cluster, he said that's a to me was a safek. So I put Rebbi Shmuel heard this number from Shmuel and he said Rebbi Shmuel you have to get very technical over here. So right, someone asked that question, it's like come on, right? Just understand the lumdis and go by that. No, over here this is a very technical area in halacha. So is it Rebbi Shmuel meaning what happens if the happened in the area of that first cluster? When he said ad the first one, does it mean only up until but if it happens in that >> [clears throat] >> of the area, so that already is going to be kosher or maybe it's ad even that first area is going to be a problem. Says the Gemara by Rebbi had another shaila, right? So the Gemara is not pushing the shaila, but Rebbi said in terms of if you're going to tell me it's ad ad halacha. Meaning what? If the issue was in that first area, so the halacha is it's going to be fine. Well, if that's the case, people ask a mile, what would be in the event that the issue happened by the opening of where the branches? Is that going to be different or is that not going to be different? That's a more sensitive area and maybe over there it would render it a treif. Rebbi Yirmiyahu asked the question in the reverse. In terms of ad ad halacha. So again, we don't know if it's ad or ad halacha. But Rebbi on the side ad halacha, but Rebbi on the side ad halacha. Rebbi asked Rebbi Shmuel, what about the actual Rebbi what about the actual branch? So again, it's part of the but a branch fell already. Is that going to be different? So the Gemara says as as relates to Rebbi Yirmiyahu's Shilo, that we could be pushing. Ha Parosha T 9 Kabasa, the Parosha itself is treated like meat. My love, Parosha Rishona v' Shnia, doesn't it mean the Parosha of the Rishona and the Shnia? What does this mean, the Parosha of the Rishona and the Shnia? So again, Rebbe Meir is going on the side that it's Ad v' Ad v' Chal. That means the Parosha Rishona, that first area, would render it a treifa. And still, my love, in the Parosha itself, the actual branch, is T 9 Kabasa. So if it's Nifsak, right? Nifsak Kabasa, there's no issue. There's not going to be an issue. What does Shnia mean? K' Shnia, we said Anyu Daya. So, Misafek, of course you would have to be Machmir. But my love, as it relates to the Parosha, that would be Nida Kabasa, and that already wouldn't be an issue. But the Gemara says, "Loy, there's no Rishlishus." Maybe it's referring to the Rishlishus. The Rishlishus, the Brisa wanted me to know that not only is the Chuta Shedra of that area not an issue, but even the the branch itself, that also would not be an issue. So, what's the bottom line? So, the Chuta Shedra that's Nifsak, we know is a treifa. The question is Ad Hechan Chuta Shedra. Rebbe Yehuda Mashmuel said, "Ad Bein Ha Paroshos." But it requires beer, because there's a whole part of the animal that is Bein Ha Paroshos. So, what more specifically does it mean? So, the Gemara says that Rebbe Yehuda once explained to Rebbe Dimi bar Yitzchak, he said, "Hachi Yom Mashmuel, Ad Achas Treifa, Shlishus Shaira, Ad Shnia Anyu Daya." And if this is not Sossom enough, the Gemara's not even sure what Achas Treifa means. Does Does Ad Achas Treifa mean Ad v' Ad v' Chal, or does it mean Ad v' Loy Ad v' Chal? So again, as it relates to the first area of where these Paroshos are, so it's totally if you hold Ad v' Ad v' Chal, Ad v' Loy Ad v' Chal. If Ad v' Ad v' Chal would be a treifa, if Ad v' Loy Ad v' Chal, then what would it be? So then it would be Anyu there. How do you know it would be any of there? Because Schnear for sure is any of there. So if Schnear is any of there, there's no way we Schnear could be any more cooler than Schnear. Now as relates to Schnear, Schnear is for sure any of there. As relates to Shlishas and anything that would be beneath that, that for sure already would be Schnear. One of the obvious questions that Rashi asks is that if really the first area is also considered an area of any of there, so why did Shmuel say Ad Achas Treifa, Shlishas Schnear and Schnear any of there. He should have said that the Rishon is also any of there. So Rashi asks the question and Rashi says because really the more and expects you to know Ad V'Ad B'Chal, Ad V'Lay Ad B'Chal. Take a look at the second Rashi or some Gamorah says the first Rashi on the top of Daf Mem Vav Amud Aleph. But either way it's talking to Gamorah but what about as relates to an Oif? So what's the cut off point of the Chuta Shidra as relates to Treifas when you're dealing with an Oif? So this Schnear of the Paroshos, this is all in the context of the Beheima. What about as relates to an Oif? So the Gamorah says Rabbanan Oimer Rabbanan said Ad L'Mata Min Agofav. It's until the area of the Chuta Shidra that goes underneath the wings. Reish Lakish said Reish Lakish said Ad Bain Agofav. No, it's not all the way down to where it's already beneath the wings but in the area that's Bain Agofav, that area already at that point the Chuta Shidra if it's Nifsak would not make the Oif into a Treifa. Ulla said I came to the Beis Midrash and Pazi was once sitting in front of Ben Pazi. V'Aisa L'Kamei Oif. And they brought him an Oif who Badak and he started being Bodek the Chuta Shidra Ad Bain Agofav. Until the area that was in between the wings. V'Sholach Lay D'Bain Asya. And then they sent from the Bain Asya, they said they want to speak to Ben Pazi. V'Kamei G'Dalop and he left. And he was never Bodek the rest of the Oif. And the Gamorah says that I wasn't sure, this is Ulla talking, whether the Loyo Dana Im Sh'Lo Itzrach L'Mofik Fei. The reason he got up was cuz he felt he was by the canal anyways and he just got a call, so let me grab the call. The mission covenant seal or maybe not. Really he would have been by the canal The only reason he wasn't by the canal is cuz the Nossi called him. The Nossi called him, so he put the bedikah on hold and he went by there. But in terms of how much you have to be by the canal, maybe really you would have to be by the canal. The bottom line is who knows that I wasn't sure whether this maiseh that happened with Ben Pazi is a raya that he paskins that Ad Ben Agafim like Rishlakish or maybe he holds the Matan Agafim really would be something that you need to be by the canal. And the only reason he wasn't by the canal is because he got himself into this situation. Either way, this concludes the first part of today's daf which deals with one of the Ailu Treifus, which one Nifsak Chuta Shidra. Again, these are so technical, but what's like the super duper high-level recap? So we have a whole bunch of shailos over here. Number one, when we talk about Chuta Shidra, does it mean that has to be Nifsak Beroyiv or is it already going to be a treifa if there's a an neck of ba'al ma? On the side that it's Nifsak Beroyiv, how do you define Royiv? Is Royiv Royiv Oy Royiv or is it Royiv Maychoyiv? If it's Royiv Maychoyiv, kol sh'kein Royiv Oy Royiv. If it's Royiv Oy Royiv, then the pasuk in the Gemara was that Royiv Maychoyiv itself wouldn't render it a a treifa. What would be if it was Nismarech the Chuta Shidra or Nismasmays the Chuta Shidra? Those cases would be passul. What would be if it was Nismasmays? Then already it would be kosher. What would be if the Chuta Shidra didn't become liquid, it didn't become soft, it became hard, but at the ba- bottom line is it it's affecting the animal in the same way that the animal gets affected when it becomes liquid, when it becomes soft. That was Rebbi Meir's shaila and that the Gemara said already is going to be a taiku. What's the cutoff point of the chuta shidra? Is it the entire chuta shidra? Ad hechan chuta shidra as relates to these halachas? Rebbe Yehuda bar Nachmani said ad bein a perosha. It was a whole bunch of series of peroshos. So, could you explain this to me? Rebbe Yehuda said, yes, I could explain this to you. He told it to Rav Dimi bar Yitzchak, and he said ad a chaz treifa. Is it ad be chlal or is it ad be layad be chlal? Ah, that's a shaila. And by the way, if you hold ad be layad be chlal, does it by Rav Papa? If you hold ad be ad be chlal, does it by Rav Rebbe Meir as relates to the shniya, eini yodea. That's a real answer. Eini yodea, we tach it don't know. And as relates to the shlishi, shlishi is going to be kosher. That's all for a beheima. What about as it relates to an oif? Oh, it's until the wing area. Well, which wing area? It's to the where beneath the wings or even in the area between the wings? Oh, that also was a shaila. There was a maiseh sheya kachoya, but even from that maiseh sheya kachoya weren't able to prove anything as Ulla demonstrated in this last Gemara that we just learned. First part of today's daf was very much not halacha l'maiseh cuz I think we left with about 17 questions. But either way, on that note, moving along in the Mishna, so the next, one of the treifos that the Mishna mentions is nital hakoveid v'lo nishtayyer minahu klum. So, in the event that the liver of the animal was removed and there's nothing left of it. Now, it certainly sounds like from the Mishna that if there's even a little bit of liver left over, that would be okay, right? So, if you think of the liver, it's like the opposite of take the veshet, for example. The veshet, a nekav b'mashu, it's already a problem. The liver's okay. As long as you have something left over, it's that in itself would be okay. So, the Gemara, it sounds like from the Mishna nital hakoveid and nothing was left over, that's when it's going to be a treifa. V'lo nishtayyer minahu klum. But if there's klum, what does klum mean? Mamash the the littlest particle possible. As long as there's a little bit of liver shiyur, it's going to be kosher. Af al pi kach l'havi g'zeiras. And there's no shiyur of k'zayis. Now, usually you think of k'zayis in sugyas of achila, machal hasuros, but now sounds like there would have been a have a minute to be a kazayis, but mish doesn't say anything about kazayis. How could you say that? But now we're going to the mishna. Now this is the other mishna, mishna daf nun dalet, that has a whole 'nother series of trayfos and it says over there nitla kovid vinashtayer emana kazayis ksheira. It sounds like then when is it kosher? If it was nitla kovid vinashtayer emana kazayis. So we have a steer on mishna this mashma that [snorts] nitla kovid vinashtayer emana sounds like klop, right? That as long as something is there it already wouldn't be a trayfa, but from the mishna daf nun dalet it's mashma that you wouldn't need a kazayis to be the amra of Yosi. Yosi said like kasha. It's not a kasha. According to Rav Chiya, huh? Rav Shimon bar Rebbi. One mishna is going according to Rav Chiya, the other mishna is going according to Rav Shimon bar Rebbi. Which one is which and what is this machlokes? So the Gemara says according to Rav Chiya, zarokla. Rav Chiya, when he would shecht an animal, so Rashi has two shitos how to learn this Gemara. By the way, if you go through the Rashis over here inside, so there's like two sets of Rashis, which is consistent for a lot of mesechtos Chulin. Rashi has like two completely distinct machlokes how to learn a lot of these Gemaras. But we're going to go with uh Rashi's second machlokes, and that is that Rav Chiya, when he would shecht a regular animal, so the liver he would throw away, zarokla. And the reason is he believed that there was nothing uh nutritious about the liver and therefore I won't eat it. So he would discard it. Rav Shimon bar Rebbi machlokes on that. He would take it, he would dip it into something, he would actually eat it. Now what do you see from here? Rav Chiya holds there's no nutritional value to the liver. Rav Shimon bar Rebbi holds that there is nutritional value. What might nafka mina? According to Rav Chiya that there's no nutritional value at all, so it's not so important to the animal. If it's not so important, if a little bit is left over, that already would make it a strayfa. Whereas a coin of shimon bar rebbi, it has nutritional value, means it's adding something to the animal. If it's adding something to the animal, you probably need a sheer khoshev of it in order for it to add to the animal, and therefore you'd have to have a kazayis. Says the gemara, by the way, a siman a good way to remember whether it was rav khia or rav shimon bar rebbi that used to eat the liver or used to discard the liver, so here's your siman. Ashirim mekamsin, because gvirim are mekames, right? The rich get richer because they they know how to watch and protect their money. So who is the gvir between rav khia or rav shimon bar rebbi? I mean, that's easy. So we know rebbi donasi, he was terrific he was an oisher muslik. Rebbi machabel es hashirim and all the different chazal that talk about this inyan. Rav shimon bar rebbi was his son, so it's fair to assume that it's rav shimon bar rebbi, he is the oisher that was mekames, right? He used to keep it. Rav khia wasn't such a gvir and he somehow would made a little bit light. He said the kovid doesn't have so much nutritional value. I'm going to throw it out. So the gemara who pulmus deasila pumpedisa. There was a pulmus, as she says, this was a the chulu hashulton, these were troops. Military people that came to pumpedisa and because of this rabbonim had to run away. Orgu rav rav yosef. So rav yosef ran away pogevu rav zera rav zera met amalu hu. So rav zera told rav rav yosef arukai. Fugitives, right? Orgu means to run away. So he referred to them as fugitives. Kazayis shamru, when the mishna says it's the leader mishna daf nun dalet, that a kazayis of the kovid is how much you would need in order for it not to be considered a trayfa. So it has to be in a makom mar, it has to be in the area where the liver meets the gall bladder. So if it's at that point, then it's going to be okay, but if it's somewhere else, even if there's a kazayis, it's not going to be okay. Rav adda bar ahava omru rav adda bar ahava says bemakom shichaya. No, doesn't have to be in the area of the gall bladder, but it's the makom shichaya. Now rashi has two pshatim on what this means. We'll pick one of them. Rashi says it's the area underneath the kidneys. So, it's either where it meets the gallbladder or it's where it meets the kidneys. Amra Papa Raba said Hilchos for this reason be in on kazayis be makom maro or be in kazayis makom shochin. By the way, this is a signora Papa. The Papa does this a lot throughout Shas where there's a machlokes and the Papa says, "Let's do both. Why fight? Let's get along." It's be being that there's a sheet that has to be the area that's near the gallbladder and there's a sheet that has to be the area near the kidneys. So, new we might as well go ahead and pasken be in on kazayis makom maro or be in kazayis makom shochin. Otherwise, we're going to render this as a a safek treifah. By the way, Rebbi Yirmiya has another Rebbi Yirmiya. Mishtakik mahu? What would be if you have a kazayis? It's in the right area, but it's not one shot. It's not on one continuum. There's a little bit here, a little bit here, but if you mishtaref all the chatzi shiur is, you're going to end up with a shiur. Okir retzua mahu? What would be if it's not shaped like a kazayis? It's like this weird shape. It's shaped like a strip. By Rebbi Ashi, Rebbi Ashi wants to know kazayis meruden mahu? What if it's very flat? So, again it's a kazayis, but it's a flat kazayis. All these things the Gemara says take who by mini Rebbi Sreika me Rebbi Ami. Nidaldela kaved umar ur be tarpasha. What would be if the kaved got dislodged, but it's still attached to the animal be tarpasha. So, it's attached tarpasha apparently means the diaphragm. But um in kabbalah in a gavo, but either way in nidaldela kaved if the liver got somehow dislodged and it's now attached, but it's not attached in the a proper way that it's supposed to be. What's the halacha on my leishis? He told him "Tuglus that any of them out. I don't know why you're asking such a question." Even mad makom maro if the going according to mad makom maro that holds you have to have a kazayis in makom maro, you can you have it. Even mad makom shochin ikka. You have a kazayis? Yes. Well, then what kind of question is this? I don't understand why if it was nidaldela would the halacha change in any way? Either way, this concludes the liver part of today's menu. And that is what's the halacha as it relates to liver or bad pun chopped liver, right? So, what would the halacha be? I mean, that's too easy. So, the halacha is that if you take a look at the Mishnah, the Mishnah said So, it sounds like as long as there's a little bit of liver that is going to be okay. The problem is there's a Mishnah where the Mishnah says it has to be So, which one is it? So, first things first, the Gemara said Going to a little bit would be enough. Going to you would have to have a kazayis. And the Gemara had a discussion, where does the kazayis have to be? One man said it has to be next to the gallbladder. The other man said it has to be next to the kidneys. And like you often do in shas, says let's do both. And if you don't have both, I'm not going to be comfortable saying it's kosher. Now, is it all clear? No, I think there's a lot of shailos that you can clarify. Yeah. In fact, the Gemara clarifies these shailos. In fact, Reish Ha'Ibbayis in shas is the man of some of these shailos. What would be if the kazayis is not in one place? What would be if it's shaped like a strip? What would be if it's flattened? What would be if the liver is there, but it's hanging on for dear life. It's like somehow stuck in the diaphragm. So, it's not mamesh where it's supposed to be. It was somewhat dislodged. It was what the Gemara refers to as But at the same time, it's there. So, that one shaila the Gemara said, I don't even have for that. You don't need take That's easy. Then you have a kazayis. And if you have a kazayis, I think that certainly would be okay. So, going back to the Mishnah, the next treifa mentioned in the Mishnah is the re'ah, the lungs. Mishnah said nikvah, the re'ah that has a hole or it's or it's missing something. That that's considered a treifa. Said it's not enough that the whole is in the ray itself it would have to go all the way until the infamous bronchi but it has to go it killed the base awesome pointers and if it doesn't go to the base awesome pointers it's not going to be considered a treif as it relates to the ray for so the background to this next that we're going to learn is very simple and that is the ray is covered it's protected by a layer of skin a membrane and that layer of skin that membrane is protected by another layer of skin another membrane so there's two membranes that in case the ray is after the ravish move the army rav shmuel and rav all said that when we say the ray was it means even if it was only the only that outermost membrane is a the just think of long that in case like the old Roman tunics that's [snorts] in this red garment what's the point the point is is that the was red so a way to remember that it's all about the just think of the ray in this red tunic and that's going to be your way of remembering this says the we had a over here is it the or is it the says the as much as we just had this discussion so it's in that there's a in the in the in the event that there's a and there's no in the the is going to be going to be and even though the says it's really a higher the if you have a that was peeled means it was peeled she remove the layer of the skin and it looks now like a red date. Okay. I know which is a date. Sumka is red. Shado that Allah is it's going to be kosher. What's the point? The point is is that if it's red, we said that that inner the top top car mode is red. So if it looks red because all you see is the lower membrane kosher it's going to be kosher. So the verse is Shito in the lower in the top top it's fine cuz even if it doesn't just have a negative, even if you peeled it, you remove that entire outer layer, that in and of itself is going to be okay. So just realize what the more did. We started with rubbish move of acid the arm camera you lower. Camera lower that if there's a negative camera lower it's not going to be okay. But I mean some said camera top top. Three lines later the verse is Shito you don't even have to have this conversation. If in camera you lower in camera top top top top Megan. And being that top top is Megan it's going to be okay. And what do those words mean top top Megan? If there's a negative in the camera, right? The reason there's a concern is because that's ultimately going to manifest in a negative in the Raya. But if top top is Megan then you don't have to worry about that. So the more of a law. In camera top top. What would be if there was a negative in the top top? Well in camera you lower but there's no negative in the lower Megan or lower Megan. So now you have a negative in the top top but there's no negative in the lower. Do you need the top top to be Megan or no that's just like your second layer of defense. But if you have the lower, you're still going to be protected and there's no reason to assume that this animal should be a treif. So again, you see an interesting nuance over here. That what we're concerned about when we talk about the negative in the membranes it's because the negative in the membranes is ultimately going to create a negative in the actual Raya. So the lower layer for sure has the ability to protect and that's why Rova said [clears throat] that if you peeled off that outer layer, even if you You it into an I know Sumka, it's still going to be kosher. The question is what in the reverse. What happens if you remove the lower peel and you have the outer? Will the outer be magen or not? So, the Gemara says it was a machlokes play but of acharonim magen. One says it doesn't make it a magen. The hilchos and the halacha is magen. It's going to be magen and you now you know this kid of Yosa. Like Yosa I'm Yosa. Yosa said I ray the afsho. So, if you have a raya that's making noise. Okay, so what's the the background to this? The background is so the shochet took the raya out of the animal after he shocheted the animal and he blew into the into the raya. And he blew it up like you blow a balloon. So, he blew it up and now it's it's whistling, right? It's it's making noise. Now, the fact that it's making noise could be a sign that air is coming out of it and that would be a sign of there being a nekav somewhere. And if there's a nekav somewhere, it'll be a problem. Or it could be the reason it's making noise is because air is just traveling within the raya. And by the way, if you see a picture of the raya, you have all those wings, those lobes. So, it could be it's going between layers of skin. Like could be it's just traveling around and as a result, so maybe it's not necessarily a siman of a treifa. So, Yosa said I ray the afsho. So, you want to know is there a nekav? And that's what's causing this hissing sound. And if that's the case, you know, your animal's not a kosher animal. Or maybe no, maybe the animal's just traveling or the the air is just traveling within and therefore there's not a problem. So, he says like this, if you can locate the area that the noise is coming from, my spin in a godfa, you should take a wing and put on top of it. A ruka, put a little spit on it. A giva, put a straw on top of it. If that's fits a if it flutters, treif it's a sign it's a treifa. Means that hole is causing it to flutter. That's like an aggressive sound and therefore it's it's a treifa. If you learn if not kosher it's kosher. You didn't know afsho. Let's say you don't know where this noise is coming from. You can't do that. So my mitzvah of the Maya so you bring a bucket that has lukewarm water inside of it. It's going to be kosher. And you put this inside of it. Now, make sure it's lukewarm. Don't bring boiling hot water to the cavity cuz what it's going to do is it's going to cause the whole to contract and could be there was a hole there that really rendered it a treif. It's not going to be there anymore. Don't bring cold cuz it's going to cause the whole potentially to expand and you may end up making this animal a treif when really it wasn't supposed to be a treif cuz it's going to superficially, artificially create some sort of hole that really wasn't there. And what should you do? My spin of the you should bring lukewarm water then and then you should blow into it. If that's treif, if it's going to start again fluttering, that's a sign that it's a treif. And if it's not, it's not it's not going to flutter, it's going to be kosher. And you want to know why it's going to be kosher? Cuz we're going to assume that in case that what happened over here was there's a lower membrane that that has a hole inside of it but the upper not behind the and the reason it's making this noise is because of the the wind that's going in between these membranes. But here's the point. If it's going to flutter, so that means the whole is in the but if it's not going to flutter, so that means there's a hole here. That's why you're hearing the hissing but at the same time it's not being manifested if you put like a feather on top of it or if you blow into it, it's not going to do what it would do if the whole was exposed to the outside because as much as there's a whole, the whole is inside but really it's uh protected. But what do you see from here? If it's in case and if the lower inkif share, then it's going to be kosher, which means that the e law has the ability to be magen. So, again, what was the shaila? The shaila was that what would be if the lower membrane had a hole, but the outer one did not have? In the reverse, it was pshita. If the outer one had a hole, the lower didn't, for sure the tata's magen. But, what about in the reverse? It was a machlokes Rav Acha Ravina. By the way, stam Rav Acha we know Rav Acha brought it to Rava. And he argued with Ravina, not Shmuel Nachman, Rav Acha be Rav Acha and Ravina on the sides, both on the right side of Rav Ashi as it's all going down. But, the bottom line is chada malai magen v'chada malai magen, the hilchos magen k'd'Rav Yosef. You see from Rav Yosef's science experiment that it's clear that Rav Yosef is of the opinion that the only time we would render this animal a treif is if the hole is exposed to the outside. But, to the extent that the hole is in the tata, it's not in the e law, in that instance, you would not have that issue. Either way, this is the conclusion of this next part here of the e law treif. So, again, the mishna said chareia she nikfa. If there's a hole in the reia, that's going to be a problem. One thing is clear, you don't need the hole to be in the reia. Even if it's in the membrane that protects the reia, that in of itself is going to be an issue. What's the definition of membrane? Specifically, the reia has two. There's the e law, the upper one, and there's the tata, there's the the lower one. So, the gemara started, Rav Shmuel Rav Ashi all said that karma e law. Do with those that said that karma tata. And the gemara really in the postscript, you know, did a major edit on this. Number one, as it relates to the first sheet, the karma e law, the gemara came out and said that as much as Rav Shmuel Rav Ashi said this, but Rava, who's a future generations, said pshita e inkif e law v'inkif tata, d'alacha is the tata. Allah is going to be making. And as it relates to the karmati daughter, there too there was a shilah. Is the karmati daughter but only also with karmila? Meaning is the karmila megan or is the karmila not megan? And the more came out the karmila is actually megan. So if there would be a hole on the karmila as long as the karmila is intact, well then it's not going to be a treif. So I hear sumka the yovish gilvis and gufa on my rova. More of us from rova as it relates to this. I hear the kind of something that this Allah we just had. So the lung that was peeled so that it looks red now like a red date, it's going to be kosher. So again, what does it mean that it looks like a red date? It means that lower membrane which is red is intact. Rova said the demon sauce a rayo that became red but mix sauce is going to be kosher. If it became entirely red, treifa it's going to be a a treif. So here we're talking about a rayo that became red because there's some gathering of blood inside the rayo. So it has some sort of bruise or some sort of ailment that caused the blood to gather on one place. Hence, you see the redness. The blood didn't leave the rayo. There's no hole, but you see the red. So Rova said that if it happened in mix sauce, it's going to be kosher. If it happened cooler, it's going to be a problem. What's the reason if it's been mix sauce? You're saying it's kosher. Probably the hot rabari because this is not a treifa. It's going to end up at some point having your a fool from this machlo. Well, if that's the case, cooler not a hot rabari. You should say the same thing if it's cooler. Me like Tanya, in fact, you said didn't we learn in a brice of a shash got some of a masim? So the shash got some of a masim is referring to right the other of what? It's in contrast to the shmaina shrotum. We're talking about hilkashabus over here. So if somebody goes ahead and makes a chaval on shabus, that's one of the masim. Says the brice as it relates to the other shash masim with the exception of the shmaina shrotum. If somebody bruises it it's not considered that it was unless blood comes out if blood comes out yet but if blood does not come out not so what do you see from here that just because there's a little bit of blood but if it doesn't leave the body it's not considered a you didn't kill it because probably cuz it's going to have a report and there's no distinction that's made between a little bit a lot of it actually it's going to be fine so they want to think it's the to the ray of the animal that just because you see red even if it's cooler it should still be okay but that mean you going to tell me how do I know the ray of that's red to the Scotson Watson where if there's blood that's aggregated areas not an issue maybe we should compare and said to the had a dam if the dam all gathered in one area even if it didn't leave what's the law the law is it's still going to be a problem so maybe say the same thing over here but the law says if rather held that you compare the ray of to the Scotson and not the Scotson then I feel the dam that even the should have been an issue Allah from the fact that he said the Scotson is not a problem that for sure he's not equating it to the Scotson he's equating it to the other Scotson where just because there's this uh aggregate of blood but being that it didn't leave it's not going to be an issue and must be what is not it must be no healing between if it happened if it happened because to the extent that you comparing it to the Scotson it means it's going to have a report and it doesn't matter if it's or if it happened either way this should not be a problem the ray of that's dried out even a little bit becomes a comma how dry is dry I'm going to pop it and it means that if you take your fingernail you put on top of it it's going to crumble that's how dry it is. So, the market is very special. you know It sounds like this must be like the minute is he What's the definition of dry? Now, this mission is talking about in the context of moment of cotton specifically a specifically the ear of a Okay, so is it What's the definition of a dry ear? It means it's so dry that if you make a hole in it, no blood's going to come out. This is my moment. I mean it has to be dry than that. You have to take it in the first place. It has to be to the point where it's already in the first place. Where if you put your fingernail on top of it, it's already going to break. But I don't have a clue what you're saying. You define dry. Now, granted that's in the of moment regarding the ear regarding a car. Regarding cotton, but a dry is dry is dry. So, it says the that if Robert said that what's the definition of a It's all the same. It sounds to me like he's being really like it's done on. It's very similar to the definition of dry. It's like the definition of I feel like maybe it's going even according to the guy. When it comes to the of the because they think which is exposed to the elements. Right? The ear is exposed. So, the So, could be once it's dry enough that it's not done. But at that point we say it's already a moment because it's not going to heal. I will as it relates to the like a lot of beer which was before you did it. Right? Mind your own business inside this animal. So, over there if it was only dry to the point where it's not 100 we would assume that it would be 100 and it's for that reason here you would need the bigger definition even according to So, it says the matter. Robert was not being in this Robert felt that there's a distinction. There's enough amino. There's a hillock the definition of dry when it comes to the ear of the bakhar versus the definition of dry as it relates to the rayah. Omar high rayah the kaima gildi gildi. A rayah that is gildi gildi. So, what does this mean? So, Rashi says klipah is klipah. Right, klipah can mean a lot of things depending on uh if you're looking at a gemara, if you're looking at a zaya. But, the klipah is klipah is Rashi says. And then Rashi says kein makos. But, it's like makos. So, apparently these are some sort of sores, some sort of bruises. So, the rayah that has these bruises okhmi okhmi if they're black black, meaning they're black, or khazusa khazusa, they're colored colored ksheira it's going to be kosher. So, gildi gildi okhmi okhmi khazusa khazusa. So, someone had a sense of humor. But, if it's gildi gildi okhmi okhmi khazusa khazusa the halakha is ksheira it's going to be kosher. So, if it has bruises bruises that are black black colors colors Now, Rashi says when we say khazusa khazusa ksheira it actually doesn't mean all colors. It doesn't mean every single color in the world is going to be kosher, but it means only certain colors Rashi says like red and green. And Rashi sends us to mem zayin alef beis, which is tomorrow's daf. So, we won't have that much suspense. But, uh we'll see already tomorrow that there are certain colors that would actually be kosher. That's what we're referring to. But, not all kosher is not going to be kosher. One more gemara. Omar Mayim Mayim Shmeider Rava. Again, this is Rava. Ein makifin babui. That when it comes to bui ein makifin. So, what does makifin mean? And what does bui mean? So, makifin literally means you don't bring near. But, we need a more loose translation. It means we don't compare. Bui are blisters. So, again, this is all also based on gemaras coming up in the next few dafin. And that is that there's an idea that after somebody shechts, if he's going to be boidek the rayah to see if it has a hole or doesn't have a hole, you always have to bavarn a little bit that maybe the hole that's there, assuming you found one, is based on the fact that the shochet might have punctured it while he was handling it, right? So, you you have to handle with care. So, maybe the shochet, who's holding this organ, I mean, he might have punctured it and and something might have happened. So, what they would do is is they would take the re'ah, they would make their own hole inside of it, and then compare it to the two holes. If the two holes look alike, so it looks like it probably happened by uh right by the surgeon. It might have happened by him. If, however, they don't look alike, so then we're going to assume this one was natural and this one happened uh unnaturally, and as a result, we have a treif over here. Here's the question. What would be if the animal has a blister and there's a hole in the blister? Could you make the same shtickel Torah? "Am I not maymer mishmay d'Rava aim makifin b'buyi." Because no two holes in a blister look the same. Again, this is above my pay grade, and the bottom line is, as much as you can compare holes in the re'ah, but not in the blisters of the re'ah, and this is what Rava meant when he said, "Aim makifin b'buyi." Anyway, the daf ended with a whole bunch of different halachas related to Rava and re'ahs, right? Rava and lungs. We, however, for our purposes, are going to stop here in middle of all these "Am I Ravas," right? You see the next word of the Gemara is "Am I Rava." If you look in the top of mem zayin amud aleph, it's for "Am I Rava." If you look five lines from the top, it's also for "Am I Rava." So again, the Gemara is going to continue in this theme with all these "Am I Ravas" related to these halachas, but we will stop here. So, as it relates to re'ah, just to go back briefly to some of the re'ah that we spoke about yesterday, and to do a an abridged part two. So, we mentioned that the Pischei Teshuvah in Yoreh De'ah siman kuf tet zayin, he brings from the Sefer Chassidim, who quotes the Minchas Chinuch, who quotes the Terumas HaDeshen. By the way, thank you, Rabbi [ __ ] Weider. The Sefer Chassidim was Rabbi Rabbi Yaakov Reischer, the Ba'al Shevut Yaakov. The Terumas HaDeshen is the Tiferes Yisrael. So, essentially he's quoting is the Pischei Tshuva the Shvus Yakov who quoted the Tiferes Yisrael. Who said that as much as we know there's an Indian in Halacha of Bal Nefesh Yachmer, but that's only in the event that there's some gray area. We are a Halacha with Paskin, for example, a lot of Behema based on a Svara Leheter. So, you have a right to be paranoid and to be from and to say I'm not 100% sure that this person got it right and as a result, even though I know in Halacha, I'm allowed to follow what the person said, but at the same time I want to be Machmir. But said the Solsom in quoting the Tiferes Yisrael that what would be if you have something that's Motar and it's Motar based on a Halacha Mefureshes in Shas. For example, Kli Sheini Inam Mevashal or Bitul Beshishim. Over there, if somebody's going to go and he's going to be Machmir, not only is it Toveil al Brocha, not only is he oh wow, what a Bal Nefesh, but Hareiza Minus. What you're doing is is Minus and the reason is because you're really undermining Divrei Chazal who said that Kli Sheini Inam Mevashal and who said that Bitul Beshishim. And even though what you're doing is a Chumra, I don't care. You're not allowed to undermine Divrei Chazal with Kula. You're also not allowed to undermine Divrei Chazal So, we mentioned the Rabbeinu Golus in the Sefer Nefesh Chaim in the Orach Chaim Siman Resh Nun Zayin. So, he's Melaket different Marmei Kodesh where you find in uh Poiskim and in Rishonim and even in Chazal this idea where Chazal was sensitive not to be Machmir even though Chumras are usually a good thing, but not to be Machmir where you're blatantly going against Chazal and not only is it not something that a person should do, but it's actually a beginning of minnows. It could be an Indian of Zaki Mamre. You could be literally touching on some of the most common things in the world. Some of the examples that we mentioned, whether a ma in Hilchos Shabbos and Siman Reshonim Zayin with regards to the laws of chametz b'Shabbos. And if someone's machmir on chametz b'Shabbos, the Rama says it's an Indian of of minnows. We mentioned the chuva from the Maram of Rothenburg who said that he used to think that he knew people that were machmir not to eat basar after gvina in the same way that they're machmir not to eat gvina after basar. And he says in his mind he always thought it was a beginning of minnows. We mentioned the Rambam in the end of Hilchos Shvuos that says that if somebody says you can't be shoel on a fool, it's a shemetz of minnows. We mentioned the Lashon Harah Yerushalmi in the second perek of Maseches Avodah Zarah where Shmuel told Rav that if you're going to be machmir on shemen akum and not rely on the heter of Rebbi Yehudah HaNasi, I'm going to say on you that you're a zaken mamre. We mentioned the Tshuvas HaRosh who reached out to this Yid Reb Yaakov Reb Moshe from Valencia and he said things that had the Rosh not said, you wouldn't even believe the Rosh would have said. And that was with cause this person was being machmir and not relying on a tzurisa Pesach in Hilchos Eruvin when it comes to a mobile that's mefulash l'reshus harabim. But the bottom line is a tzaddik shabbos this shmuel part of Halachos is is that there's it's not so poshit for a person to be machmir the makem where Chazal said mefurash that really what you're supposed to do is you're supposed to be make. It's a fascinating idea. But if you think about it for a minute, it's something that requires beer. Because at the end of the day, we know there's a concept of kadosh atzmo b'mutar lo. So I know this is mutar, but at the same time, I want to be noheg kedushas Yisrael. Why can't I be a kadosh atzmo b'mutar lo? Why is that uh an issue? If somebody says I don't want to eat meat because I want to be noik to she is Sarah, I think that's fine, right? You have to eat meat. You're allowed to not eat meat. The nozer according to one man the armor is a kodesh. Kol hayoshiv betaines according to one man the armor is a kodesh. So there is an idea where a person has a right to be machmir. So if I could be machmir and say I'm not going to eat meat even though I know it's kosher. I'm not denying the fact that it's kosher, but I want to be machmir. So why would it be worse to say that if a little bit of non-kosher meat, just think about it, falls into your kosher meat, I say I don't want to eat from this pot cuz I know there's a little bit of non-kosher over here. How could that somehow be worse? The core idea, how do you reconcile this idea with the concept of kodesh atzmo kodesh mutar lach? Just to bring out the kasha a little bit uh stronger. The Silsei Shurim in perek yud gimmel turns his attention to the meat of prishus. And he has a few problems that talk about prishus. And I think it's kedai to just read together a few excerpts. Says the Silsei Shurim, vihinei, klal aprishus umasha amri zachri l'vracha, the general idea of prishus is what Chazal said, kodesh atzmo kodesh mutar lach. That there's an idea that you can make yourself holy and kodesh even with things that are mutar. V'zoi si hoyu oso shel hamila atzma. Prishus, and really if you understand the etymology of the word prishus, you see it in the word itself. Rotzei lomar, li is poresh umargik atzmo mimin hadavar. Vihinei she Yisrael atzmo davar heter. What you essentially do is you say that something that's really mutar, I'm going to treat as assur. V'hakavana bazeh, why would a person do this and why is this a maila? Why is this a good thing? Shelo yifga b'issur atzmo. The reason this is a good thing is is because if you are poresh from things that are mutar, well, you're now a few degrees farther removed from things that are assur. Interesting point. We don't care so much that you made yourself also from things that I'm older. If it's older, it's older. But what we like about is that you're now so removed from this Indian that I'm never going to come to go ahead and do the thing that I'm really not supposed to do. The concept of precious is is that any Indian, anything that something bad can come from Even if right now what you're doing is not really raw, but the farther away and the more you can separate to hence the word precious from that it's this is something that's going to be okay. right? Right? So we know there's an idea that the say it's not so positive to go ahead and just distance yourself from these things. that it's based on and we learn from there there's an Indian that no to the contrary this is actually something that's good. Skipping a little bit. Let me explain to you how this works. After we explain and this is really in the beginning of the show room that everything in this world on this earth And you know we talked about how weak people are and how easy and vulnerable we are to do things that we're not supposed to do. So from there it becomes clear that you can mold it The more a person can save himself from all in that he should do. And says the reason is because every tiny thing in the world, even a tiny that's smaller, ultimately will lead a person to do something wrong. We'll just mention one martial. Derek martial. Think of food. >> [snorts] >> From one book end to the other you check your meat. There's no traif, there's no issues, not possible to have. You're allowed to eat the meat, right? Um um says let's be honest. Me chorus. As soon as a person fills up his stomach, it's going to lead him to when you drink wine Certainly if you don't just eat but you dress. He says another thing. If a person goes ahead and he gets used to eating good foods, forget about this and forget about the you get used to a good thing. What happens if you get used to a good thing? So you have to fund your burn rate. And let's say you can't come up with the money. Who of all of them Who he starts swearing falsely. Who makes me not want to You have no time anymore to serve Who has time to learn? I have a I have to make money, right? Who has time to learn? Had the person not engaged so much in he would never gone to the point that he doesn't have any time. Who Indians are sharp from martial. He says I'm the right you see a person sometimes he get a sense of where it's going to lead. Says himself it's you won't understand precious. Just think of that much. It's so precious. He says you start eating and before you know it, you don't have time to learn. Very simple. You could draw a straight line between those two things. So you're going to tell me precious is not a kosher of a thing. He says of course precious is a kosher of a thing. And he goes on and he goes from there to precious of other time you go and he explains in chapter and verse each one of these things exactly how it plays itself out. But either way precious is a kosher of a thing. For a person to be much more, it's very very kosher. Just go through the social. Right, anytime you see any thing related to one of these other matter of is the social. It's the clearest safer of all time written by the other Kabbalah. So it's just so clear the way he lays out the importance and the of what precious is. Then the social. I'm skipping more and more. It talks more about it. He says that I think you can take precious and you can divide it into three groups. The one that we need is the second. How precious begin and who begin talking. It's to always be much more when it comes to a lot. In fact, you know what manifest itself? If you know there's a and there's a even though we don't pass like the you should be a person then and you should pass like the and tell me there. Like if you think that what he's saying makes sense. I feel in a lot of my side. I just make sure you're really being much So you could be much more by a speaker. Oh, there's an Indian to be much more. Speaker there's an Indian to be much more. Cuz I already learned from he named it to my. What do we learn from there? So we know the in two places. So we know >> Here's the bottom line. You see a person is allowed to be a pious. It's actually a good thing to be a pious. And in fact, in the world of pious the Messiah has a subcategory that he refers to as pious bedinim. So I ask you, how does pious bedinim stand with all this rate that if a person is said the is like this, then you're actually a man and maybe even a second memory. How do you reconcile this? How do you make sense of this? The Messiah says that if I'm if I ain't allowed to come mostly I could do it. And if I take on the one that comes to so even though I'm allowed to be made cool, this is already going to be a double it's a double of it's a double of precious. How exactly do you go and reconcile these ideas? Now the truth is you could get nuance and you could say that even the Messiah is talking about not a case where everybody agrees it's more than what is a with the very least there's a but I think that would require us to revisit the six examples that we gave. There's no that holds there's no when it comes to a I mean you have to learn the of when it comes to you'd have to go through all these clearly and make sure you're not even going to find the not so sure it's going to fact check. And if that's the case, the question the question that was obvious that becomes a little bit more obvious after you go through the Messiah to show them I think requires to be. But the truth is the carrots is as obvious as the question is. And really the matter of mocking for this is a dog. The Hida is in his book of Yosif. It's in Yoreh De'ah Siman Yud Zayin. Yoreh De'ah Siman Yud Zayin is the Siman in Shulchan Aruch that talks about a Shas of Misukanas. And the Mechaber over there brings how the Gedolei Hachachamim based on Yechezkel Hanavi, they didn't eat from a Beheima Misukanas. Says the Birkei Yosef, I quote, it's a one-line quote. Says the Hida, you want to understand how this Indian works? How do you reconcile on the one hand someone being Machmir because I'll say something is Mutar as being a Min because you're like literally not trusting the Torah versus the Karet Kadesh Atzmo BeMutar Lo. And Perek Yud Gimmel and Yud Daled in Mesillas Yesharim, the answer is very simple. If a person is Machmir Mitzad Chumra VeGeder UleKadesh Atzmo BeMutar Lo, if a person is being Machmir because he learned the Mesillas Yesharim and he understands the fact that if I want to make sure I'm never going to do a Vadai Issur, I shouldn't even do a Safek Issur. And a person says if I want to make sure I'm not going to be Nichshal in Kli Rishon, I should be Merachek myself from a Kli Sheni. And if I want to make sure that I'm not going to ever come to a point when I'm not going to have time to learn, you know what? I shouldn't get used to any Tanugei Olam Hazeh because if I do, ultimately it's going to take me down a road that somewhere down in the future it's going to impact my style and not allow me to serve Hashem the way I'm supposed to serve Hashem. If a person does that, Kadosh Yomar Lo. That's a very holy thing. But if a person says that the reason I'm being Chayish for this Das Yochid because even though the Rambam says we Pasken like the Rabim and it's based on the Gemara of we go Acharei Rabim LeHatos, and Yochid Rabim LeHalacha KeRabim, I don't know, there's a little part of me that feels maybe that Halacha is really maybe the Yochid right. Maybe got it wrong when they said that is like the cliche needs not I don't know. I did an experiment. I took I made a coffee with a and I made it with a cliche and and to me it looks like they cooked the same. Right, if a person goes down that road and he's being in the day that's already with me knows and that's already not okay. So really it's all about your attitude and it's all about the way you approach it. If a person approaches it with a pick book we're undermining. I'm not 100% sure I accept this. Well, if you're not 100% sure you accept this then already there's and if you're on the magic of an old it's a thing of already. It's the of the this is the worst of the worst. It's the lowest of the low. If however a person is going to approach it, of course I know that's the said is not but I have such nerve and I want to make sure I'm going near a cliche and I may go to I'm not making a coffee on cuz if I make it with a I might make it with a uh God, if you're not making a coffee on cuz you say it is the you're a man. If I'm not making a coffee on with a because that one time you wake up and you're halfway in your sleep by mistake you forgot to make a cuz you thought it was Tuesday. I understand so that's a it's a precious. That already is is a very very thing. So really it's all about how you approach it. If you approach it because of an insecurity in the minus. If you approach it as a uh uh Yeah, are you all right? Now even there's a precious. In the talks about the precious and he talks about the precious you got to make sure that you stay you know with the precious don't cross over to the dark side where you stop eating and then there's an Indian of those things are already not okay. But the point is it's all about the approach. It's all about the it's all about you know the way you go about it. And the truth is, this is a very, very interesting thing, cuz chumerous is something that fascinates everybody, right? And there's certain chumerous that, you know, kashki bal nu al atzmeinu val zareinu al tzoif kol hadoyrus, that even though this is only a chumerous, but al mababe but at the same time we take on this chumerous. And you got to you have to know how to, you know, look at a chumerous, what bucket to put it into. If a person takes on a chumerous keneged a gemara, keneged a offen halacha in shulchan aruch, keneged even poiskes mineinu that are gedolei hador, and you go ahead and you say that even though he wrote a teshuvah that it's mutar, but at the same time I hold you shouldn't do it because woah, that's not poshit. That's not poshit. You're going against a up sacha halacha of a godol hador? You're playing with zokin mamrei. You're playing again, now, you know, everything's always a machlokes, so you usually have someone to be someich on maybe, but again, I mean, dayilug chakima b'armiza. So if a person's going to see a kulah that was written by Rav Moshe Feinstein hagadol, and he's going to say that I want to go ahead and I want I'm I'm being machmir because I don't know, mad, this faris gefelt mich nicht. Es gefelt mich nicht? You know what? Digefelt mich nicht. I'm not so sure you have a right to do that. This is you're playing on the spectrum of minus. This is this is this sugia over here. If a person says, you know what, I know you wrote a teshuvah, and I know you said it's mutar, but there's an inyan about nafshi achmir. Could be that poisek even wrote me furish in the teshuvah about nafshi achmir. And I want to be about nafshi. So I'm afraid that if I'm going to go ahead and, you know, I'm going to do eat that, I'm going to eat something else. So in the harchakis, in the world of my prishus, it'd be nice if I was consistently like that in other areas of life, but again, I'm not going there. The bottom line [laughter] is, if that's the attitude and that's the hanhaga, so ad rabah kodesh she yomar lo. It's all about the perspective. If the perspective is I'm mefakfik in the ikar din, I would look twice before I cross the street. If it's about I know what the din is, I'm not being [ __ ] the Ikra din. But at the same time, there's a concept about Nafsha Achmas. There is a concept about Nafsha Achmas. It's actually often a Halacha in Shulchan Aruch. It's a Rama. And the Rama is in Yoreh De'ah Siman Kuf Tes Zayin. And before you invoke Bal Nafsha Achmas, look at that Piskei Tshuvos and go through a little bit of raid. And I think we'll have to look at the Chida in Birkei Yosef Yoreh De'ah Siman Nun Zayin. There's a concept about Nafsha Achmas. I don't understand what this means by Nafsha Achmas. Bal Nafsha Achmas doesn't mean that the person that's not a Bal Nafsha is a shigetz. Cuz if you feel that, now you're playing with me necessarily. You're playing with me necessarily. Your Bal Nafsha is really a It's such a It's a gashya tamah s'inyan. Because you can be a Kodesh Yuma L'ilui. If you not to handle this with care, and your mom is dealing with minus and Zakein Mamrei. If you don't know how to handle this with care. This is a sensitive topic. I tried shredding it sensitively. Either way, we will stop here. This is way too much fun not to have a part three. So Be'ezras Hashem, we'll probably revisit this.