Chulin 51

Today's stuff is Chulin Daf Nun Aleph. And we are 18 lines from the bottom of Daf Nun Aleph Bet, the two dots. Rebbe Yehuda Omer, "Bigdola V'chulu." Today's Daf is being learned as a z'chus refuah shleimah for Chava Miriam bas Malkah Frieda and [ __ ] ben Chaya Leah. Today's Daf is also being learned l'iluy nishmas Yenta bas Rebbe [snorts] Moshe. So, we're moving along in Perek Eilu Treifos discussing the stomachs, lashon rabbin, of an animal in the context of the laws of eilu treifos. So, at the end of yesterday's Daf, we spoke about the karas or the kores. >> [snorts] >> Specifically, the karas hapnimi. Where the Mishnah says that part of the karas is extremely sensitive. Achrei de kach, if there would be a nekav the size of a mashu, that already would render it a treifah. What about the rest of the karas? What about the quote-unquote karas not hapnimi but hachitzona? So, the Mishnah said that's a lot less sensitive. And there the halacha is if it was nikra rov of the karas, then it would be considered a treifah. So, as it relates to the karas hapnimis, that's if it's just nikfa. As it relates to the karas hachitzona, that requires not nikfa nikra. How much of it has to be torn? It would have to be the majority of it. And then the Mishnah mentioned the opinion of one of the sages, Rebbe Yehuda Omer, "Hagidola, it's not so simple." As it relates to the karas hachitzona, in the event that the animal is a big animal, which possibly you would think means like a shor, a big animal, so then the halacha is that as long as the tear is a tefach, that would already render it a treifah. V'hak'tana, and in the event that it's a k'tana, then beruba, then it would be to'i in roiv. So, whereas according to the Tana Kama, according to the chachamim in the Mishna, when you deal with the kares achi tzoina, we don't care how big or small the animal is. We don't care how big or small the kares is. If it's nikra ruba, it's considered a treifa, and if it's not nikra ruba, it's not considered a treifa. In the world of Rabi Yehuda, it actually depends. Not all animals were created equally as it relates to treifos. In the event that it's a gdola, so then you don't need roiv. Then, as long as it's a tefach, that in and of itself is going to be okay. Today's daf is going to begin with the statement of an Amora who said a little bit of a peirish into what exactly Rabi Yehuda meant when he said gdola versus ktana. So, Rabi Yehuda omer gdola omer Rabi Yamin bar Yefes omer Rabi Elozar, "Lo gdola gdola mamash." When Rabi Yehuda said gdola, he didn't mean gdola mamash. So, what does it mean gdola mamash? So, Rashi says, "Gdola she be gdolas." He didn't mean the biggest animal that there is. "V'lo ktana ktana mamash." And ktana wasn't mean ktana she be ktanas. Ela, so what's the definition of gdola? What's the definition of ktana? "Koshe nikra b'tefach." In the event that a tefach would be torn, "V'lo ihavei ruba." And it would not constitute a roiv. "Zohi sheshoninu bigdola b'tefach." That's what Rabi Yehuda is referring to when he says by a gdola, the shiur is going to be a tefach. "Ruba v'lo ihavei tefach." What would be if roiv of it was torn and it's not a tefach? Well, that means that the kares is pretty small. "Zohi sheshoninu b'ktana b'ruba." That's what he meant when he said that in the event that it's small, it's going to be roiv. In other words, when Rabi Yehuda said gdola ktana, he doesn't care so much a big huge animal versus a small animal. That's not what he is zeroing in on. What Rabi Yehuda is trying to say is that once you have a tear the size of a tefach, at that point it's automatically going to be a treifa. You're not going to need a roiv. The whole shiur of is in the event that the animal so small so that you have rov where it's less than a tefach. I'll set them out. It's rov. You can't get this animal to be treated like a kosher animal with rov if it was already nikra. But, in the event that the animal has a tear that's a tefach and that tefach doesn't constitute a rov. Why? Because it's a quote-unquote gedolah. Gedolah should be gedolah no, just means it's big to the point that a tefach makes up less than rov. The whole thing could be a two and a half tefach, but that sheer of a tefach is going to be less than a rov. Halacha is that two would be a trip. So, whereas according to the tan akama, the sheer is always rov, according to Rabi Yehuda, it's going to be rov. However, to the extent that it hits a tefach, at that point even if it's not a rov, it's going to So, the bottom line is you can never have a tear more than a tefach in the world of Rabi Yehuda. Says the Ruba of Rabi tefach shita. So, Rabi Yehuda said two things, right? He said in the event that it's uh gedolah then the sheer is going to be a tefach. In the event it's a ketana, then it's going to be be rov. And Rabi Niman by Yafis explained in the name of Rabi Lozer what exactly Rabi Yehuda was referring to. So, he said that the gedolah doesn't mean mamesh, but rather what it means is kosher nikra but tefach lo yavi ruba. And what does the ketana mean? The ketana means in the event where you have a ruba lo yavi tefach. Right? So, if it's ruba lo yavi tefach at that point the worst case is that part of Rabi Yehuda is essentially the shita acharonim. So, that acharei shita, why did Rabi Yehuda, why does Rabi Niman by Yafis Rabi Lozer need to explain that part of the equation? Isn't that included in the shita of the tan akama? Now, what of the Gemara is pshita. Pshita it's the pshita of the Tana Kama. It's a pshita. So Rashi says it actually is pshita the ruba kakula. Cuz being that ruba is kakula once it's nikra ruba, at that point it's as if you don't have it. And if you don't have it, it's it's for sure pshita. But the Gamara's kasha is is that why does Rabbi Yehuda need to repeat the rub of v'lo havi tefach part of the equation? That is essentially the sheet of the Tana Kama. It's pshita and the Gamara says a very surprising teretz. Like sricha. I'll tell you why Rabbi Yehuda felt he had to say it. It's talking about the havi tefach b'masha. As a machlokes Rashi, Tosafos b'shem Rabbenu Tam, had a long pushka on this Gamara. We're going to learn shitas Rashi even though it's a very surprising shita. And that is it's talking about a situation where it was a tefach b'masha. Had there been another masha of tear, at that point the tear would have been a a full tefach. So the shear was less than a tefach. It was roiv. So roiv even if it's less than a tefach. Rub of v'lo havi tefach. Zu isha sh'ninu b'ktana b'ruba. But if it would have torn a drop more, at that point it would have been a tefach. Mao d'teima, I would have had this wild havah minah. Adam b'ruba tefach v'lo havi treifah. Being that it's so close to being a tefach, so maybe we're not going to view it as a treifah until it tears that extra tefach or that extra masha that makes it a tefach. Masha v'lo havi that's the chiddush of rub of v'lo havi tefach. Even if the v'lo havi tefach is off by a masha, a filo v'lo havi rub of v'lo havi tefach that's the middle halacha. Tosafos says I never heard such svara in my whole life. You're telling me that ruba kakula. You're telling me that the shear should be roiv. But you know, your roiv is so close to a tefach you might as well round it off to a tefach and at that point when you get the tefach now we'll have this conversation. Why are we talking when it's uh $99.99? Add a penny it'll be $100. Then uh we'll have this conversation. Tosafos can't even fathom what this svara would be. Again, very inconsistent with the svaras of the way uh Gamarahs and Rishonim and Acharonim usually operate, I and some of the Rishonim say in the event that the has a hole and the hole was the size of a sela, a coin, treifa would be considered a treifa. Why? This is all in where Rabbi Yehuda holds that a tefach, even if it's less than in the would be considered a treifa. Says in the name of if there's a round hole the size of a sela, you should have that figure with one theory of a sela. So you got to do a little math, pi, right? Get involved in all the geometry of circles, but the point is if there's a hole the size of a sela, that means it's the equivalent there of of a tefach. What does it mean empty motekh? If you would straighten out, if you would pull the circle and turn it into just a regular size hole, what you would end up with is a tefach. Oh, a tefach, that's considered a treifa. They made the Gneiva. He said, "I heard from Gneiva says I even remember where I was. I was on the bridge that's near Nehardea." And he explained to me that this mesorah that he was mekabel from Ravasi, niktera kasela is considered a treifa. It's kasela ksheira, yes kasela treifa. So even though the words sound like niktera kasela treifa, he explained to me that if it's exactly a sela, it's actually going to be kosher. If it's a little bit more than a sela, that's when you're going to have a problem. The kama yes ami kasela, how big is yes ami kasela? Now it sounds like this sheer of niktera kasela was supposed to be explanatory. Right? You're not supposed to ask on the muscle. If you have to ask on the muscle, then the muscle didn't really serve you well. But I guess if you were there, you knew what it was. But these halachas travel from place to place and from generation to generation. So maybe later on or that lived in a different geographic area, so they heard this niktera kasela. Okay, so if you know what a quarter looks like, so you can be mam khashit. But, you know, I live in a whole different world. We use credit cards here, so I don't even know what a seller looks like. I haven't seen a coin in 10 years. So, the question is, what exactly does it mean niktar kasela? Right? What is the definition of seller? And not seller, yasmi kasela, because kasela we said is really shera. So, what is the definition of yasmi kasela? Amrav Yosaif, Amrav Yosaif said going to the island class kashiosa. It's a hole that's big enough for three date pits to be able to go through. Now, you don't have to know what a date pit is, but that's for extra credit. But, either way, so if it's big enough that three date pits can go through, bitsi por. Now, if it has a little bit of fruit on it, right? So, after you finish a fruit, unless you really, really, really are a madaktik and baltashris, and you know how to get every last little bang for your buck, so you're going to have a little bit of fruit that's still going to be attached to the pit. So, if it's bitsi por, if it's still somewhat covered with some of the meat of the fruit, then bituchka. So, then as long as it can clutch its way through, that would be this year. But, lo it si por, it has to be a sheer where if it doesn't have any fruit, berafka, then it's going to be able to go berafka, it's going to be able to come and go very, very freely, says the Gemara of Hemsis and Base Hakoisis. So, we now turn our attention to the next two stomachs of the animal, the Hemsis and the Base Hakoisis, respectively. So, the Mishna said that as it relates to the Hemsis and the Base Hakoisis, shinikful achos, in the event that they have a a nekiv, and the nekiv is lachos, meaning you could see it mibachos, the [snorts] halacha is that would render it into a treifa. Now, the tiny bit of background that we need to understand the Hemsis and the Base Hakoisis for this next Gemara that we're going to learn is that the wall of the Hemsis and the base of was a a double wall. Right, specifically the base of is what we're going to focus on. So, it had this double layered wall. So, when you talk about there being a hole in the wall, so you have to know is it the inner wall or is it the outer wall? And it's water there is mocking to say that if the hole is in the inner wall left after it would render it a treif because as long as the outer wall is intact, so the outer wall would be a schmira, it would protect and as a result maybe it wouldn't be an issue. Says the I tell him about the machat and he says by the base of in the event that a machat a needle was found in the thickness of the wall of the base of we said if it's only from one side and what does it mean from one side? It means if it's the inner part it's going to be kosher. If it's on the inner part and on the outer part treif it's going to be a treif. Why if it's only the inner part is it going to be kosher? Because it has the schmira it's being protected from the outer part. If it goes through and through it's on both sides. So, if you were inside of you would see the hole and if I was on the outside of the base of I would see the hole. So, if it's that's when it's going to be a treif. Stating that it's not always considered a treif. There is a little bit of a analysis that you can do a bedika to determine in the event that the needle had a little bit of blood on it, well then then you know for sure the needle got there before the shrita. The animal was alive hence the blood and if that's the case it's obviously going to be a treif. If however you couldn't find the then then you know it happened after the shrita and here's the point even if you have a neck of on both sides which ordinarily would make it a treif, but if there's no blood that's actually a a siman muvhak that this took place after the shrita. If it took place after the shrita you don't have to worry. So, this is one of the interesting things that repeat itself a lot in Perek Elu Treifos. Number one, what's a treifa? Number two, even if this is a treifa, do you know for sure it was there lifnei shchita? So, that when you shachted it, you shachted a treifa? Maybe this is something that came about after the fact. Right? There's so much tinkering with the animal. It's in this huge manufacturing facility. There's shlacht toys. I mean, you know what goes on. There's blood and knives and screaming and coilas. And there's a lot of people working there. It's a massive plant. So, you could see why things could happen after the shchita. That's always the other question you want to ask yourself. So, what the braisa is saying is that as it relates to the definition of treifa with regards to the base akoises, it would have to be mishneh atzladem. If the hole is only on the inside, it's protected on the outside. Inside outside, that's when you got yourself into an issue. Additionally, there is a bedika, very basic bedika that you could do after the fact that may get you out of the situation even if the machas on both sides. And that is lo nimtza dam acharita. Cuz if you don't find any blood, so what do you mean? Somebody punctured the animal in this way, had it and it bled. Oh, it entered the gof after the animal was dead already. Oh, it was dead. That's why it didn't bleed. And it's so clear bi yadoa shalach shchita, even though we're dealing with the risas over here, we're allowed to rely on that experiment 100%, says the braisa. So, he glid pi amako. What would be if there was a scab that was around this area that the hole is bi yadoa. So, then you know shishlishi yom acharita ne'eman is a clue that it happened while the animal was alive and it had the vibrancy and the potency to be able to develop this scab, but it must have been that this issue was already there three days prior. Lamai nafka mina? Who cares if it happened one minute earlier? If it happened three minutes earlier? So, [snorts] as we'll see from the next line of gemara, it's negaya choshe mishpat. It's negaya. This is a fascinating halacha. In the event that somebody went and he bought this animal, and then he found out that it was a treifa, he might want to get his money back. In the event that he checked and he finds out that this animal has a market in the base of curses and there's even a scab, well, that means that whatever had happened happened already three days earlier. So, if this buyer bought within that three-day window, he could actually claim and he'd be able to get his money back. Let's say you don't have this scab. That's how you know we're dealing with over here. How often are you going to invoke these words here? In that case, you would have to prove that it was there three days earlier or not and assuming you won't be able to prove it. >> [snorts] >> So, the moral says, I don't understand. You're telling me now that this is incredible, incredible cooler when it comes to traces and that is if you see a hole and there's no blood, oh, be a How come I never heard about this until now? We're almost making our way through the list of all the traces and the mission of the beginning of the and this is the first time I'm hearing about it, says the Why is it that when it comes to all the other no one ever heard such In other words, even if there's no but whoever that ever is, right? It's not clear who's asking this question. It's just a price of a tomorrow. It's a but the bottom line is that I forgot to like a lot of money. How come when it comes to the tomorrow says I'm going to tell you why. When it comes to other uh there's nowhere for the to to go. So, you want to know why you don't see the to go? So, you want to know why you don't see We didn't want to see them on the walls of the animal. You want to see it in the fats of the animal. You're not going to find it anywhere. How we here given the We're dealing with this Here you're dealing with a a needle. The needle would have a little bit of blood on it, some dried out blood. So, in the Gemara, you're dealing with a necked that involves a machat, so then it would be true, which is exactly what this person is talking about. A regular necked in the raya or that doesn't involve any uh physical matter for the blood to be able to plant itself on. So, over there, there wouldn't be any siman one way or the other. Amora Rav Safra Rav Safra told Abaye "Chazi Mar." So, now we know who Mar is, right? Rav Safra is talking to Abaye. Abaye is the rebbe. Right, the word Mar in Chazal means rebbe. So, "Chazi Mar." Rav Safra tells Abaye, "Take a look, rebbe." "Heit sumra banit as sumra rav." There was a certain younger man who came from Eretz Yisrael. "For amrin he said Rav Avira Shmani." He said, "My name is Rav Avira." "For amrin he said, "Maiseh was a story about a man named Rebbi machatin and says "Be it be that all of a sudden a macha, right? A person carrying the machat >> [laughter] >> that was in the walls of the Beis Haknesses only on one side. You're only able to see him bifnim." And walked in to the Beis Hamedrash of Rebbi. And Rebbi took a look at the Beis Haknesses for the time full and he said it's a treif. Now, when Abaye heard this, Abaye wanted to meet this person. He wanted to get a little bit more information. So, the Gemara says "Shalach lei." So, Abaye sent for Rav Avira. "Lei aslei l'gabei." Rav Avira did not go to Abaye. "Aslei l'gabei." Abaye says, "Okay, you've got the umatzasi tamim." Sometimes you have to follow the halacha if you want to be able to get what it is you're trying to get. So, he goes to Rav Avira "And Avakoya Yigro." And when he came to Rav Avira, right? They told him where he was staying. He looks up and Rav Avira is standing on the roof. "Amars Abaye tells Rav Avira, "Nechos mar benaisi." Can you please come down? I want to talk to you." "Lei nachos." He says uh "No, I can't come down." "Saluk l'gabei." So, uh Abaye said, "No worries." So, Abaye starts, you know, climbing the ladder or climbing the steps. He goes up. "Amarl lei." And he looks at him and he says um "I have to ask you a question." Says, "Okay, you know, am I in trouble? Is everything all right?" Says, "Yeah, it's fine." "Amali gufa d'uvei heicha hava." "I heard from Rav Safra my town." They you told him over a story that it was a macha and he says by kosis means that you were only able to see it from the inside and it appeared in front of the great Rebbe, Rebbe Yehuda Nasi, the tarfa, and he said it's a treifa. Can you give me a little bit more information?" Amalie said Rebbe Yehuda said, "Yes, mach the kinesis I know." >> [snorts] >> He said that I'm a mach the kinesis. Rashi says that he was somebody that used to you know take care of the talmidim. I used to spend time in the base madrash. Like I made Rebbe Rava and I worked in the presence of Rebbe Yehuda Nasi. Avraham Tzipora and Rebbe Yosi Madah Yishmael ben Natan and Avraham Tzipora and Rebbe Yosi Madah they were sitting in front of him. Bust lifnei Rebbe Macha and he says base kinesis and this exact story happened. The half Rebbe and what Rebbe did was he took the base kinesis. He started playing with it. He flipped it this way, that way matza koida dam and he found there was blood on it. The tarfa and he went and he made it into a treifa. For on that and he said in ein sham dam if there was in ein sham macha if there was no macha then koida dam in ein. Then how could there have been dam? Must be there was a a macha. If there was a macha that's why he went ahead and he made it into a treifa. In other words, he told him that the story was is that Rebbe saw blood and because he saw blood he understood that this hole must have been me base sodem because the macha must have came from the outside and it must have penetrated and created this hole and it was for that reason he went ahead and he was tarfa. Do you remember the story? The story was Rav Safra tells Abaya that Rav Avira came and he said my so Rebbe Macha base kinesis echod tarfa. And Abaya was very taken aback because we know the masora is if it's only me side echod it's not a treifah. Has to be Beitzah Shatam. So, Abaye flags down this Rabbeinu he gets to him finally, little bit of drama. They're having this conversation rooftop, and finally he tells him, "You want to know what the story was? There was blood there. And because there was blood, the Rebbe understood that it must have been a real neckev Beitzah Shatam." So, Abaye turns to Rabbeinu, he said, "Tarei Tarei Lo Gavra." He said, "I was so much riach to come to you because I thought I was going to hear something novel, and it turns out my Mesorah it turns out whatever your maiseh was is a Meforesh Mishnah. Hametz to Beitzah Koiseishin Lo Lo Chutz. The Halacha is, it's considered a treifah. And being that there's a Keirah Tamah Korchach, the neckev was on the other side as well. There's no news here, there's no story here. I'm not even sure why I ever came. Nafal Min HaGag. Min HaGag. Going back to the Mishnah. So, the Mishnah mentioned another one of the treifos is that in the event that an animal would fall off the roof, right? So, an animal fell from the Gag. So, we go from Rabbeinu and Abaye being on the roof, Baruch Hashem, nothing happened. And now we're talking about an animal that on the roof, and unfortunately that story didn't end as well. But this animal was Nafal Min HaGag. So, the Halacha is, even if you don't see anything that necessarily makes us think that there's a treifah over here, a feel of Hakki, the Halacha is, we have to be Chayish Bitarafus. So, Nafal Min HaGag in and of itself is a reason to assume that there might be an issue of treifah. Now, from here until the end of today's daf through the beginning of tomorrow's daf, we're going to deal with this general Halacha. Not to give it away, but just one spoiler alert that's going to emerge from learning the Gemara is that if an animal falls off a roof, we don't necessarily automatically assume that this animal's going to be a treifah. Oh, it fell off a roof, boom, must be there's something wrong in one of its internal organs, and as a result, you're never going to be able to eat this animal. That's not true. The first thing we do is is we take a look at how the animal responds, and we'll see some of the Meforesh Halachas. If the animal gets up, what if it gets up and it walks? What if it uh tried to get up? What if it thought about trying to get up? A lot of permutations, as we'll see. But the bottom line is, so we look at the reaction of the animal. Another huge factor is that if 24 hours pass and this animal, as far as we're concerned, is doing okay, well, at that point we're going to assume that whatever happened didn't uh really happen and as a result everything is going to be fine. So, with that uh little bit of a spoiler, so after he'll get a mara, enough women and gaga, an animal falls off a roof, that's high level a reason to be concerned. Omar Rav Huna, Rav Huna said some interesting halachas, if people are my love, somebody left his animal on the roof, uba, and then he came back and mitzal mata and he found it on the ground, what he do? He took the elevator, he's trying to figure out how the animal came down. In chos demishum risuke avorim, so even though it seems like he must have jumped, but at the same time you don't necessarily assume that something happened to its avorim, right? Risuke avorim means that they avorim got dislodged, they got punctured, it was torn, right? You don't assume that something necessarily happened. And um the reason is that even though, as far as we're concerned, the animal probably uh took a spring, but he probably did it in a methodical way, he probably did it in a way where he knew he wasn't going to injure himself, he had a safe, smooth landing and as a result, even though there are things to potentially be concerned about, we're not going to be worried. Who got you that? I believe it was Ravina. Ravina owned a goat. The chaza chosla, and one day Ravina's goat is on the roof of the house and he looks through the window that he has and um he sees some barley. And the barley was something that really, really tempted the goat. So, it was like a skylight, he's looking down at the window, he says, I have to get my hands on that uh on that barley. So, what did he do? Dogar, he jumped not from the la'ara, and he fell to the ground and after this happened wasn't sure is this like a is not enough and he comes to his great Rebbe his mentor of and told him with a when said that if somebody leaves his animal on the roof and then he finds it on the bottom you don't have to be because we assume that the animal acted with intention with and he did everything the way he was supposed to do it. Is it is it meaning what's the how you do it in this >> [laughter] >> is it because we assume that when the animal came down it it clawed its way down on the side of the wall and as a result it was able to make it down properly. Is it something to latch on to so you right so it knew how to make its way down well if that's the case Leslie over here this is a free fall yeah no way right there's no proverbial ladder can hold on to the side of a mountain or something. >> [snorts] >> So if that's the case here you would have to be concerned or you don't know said maybe that's not the of but maybe what he meant was an animal is not going to jump unless it assesses the situation properly and he knows that he can do it. Well if that's the case then you would assume this is going to be okay either way comes holding a goat that just took a nose dive and he has a whole hero a in his home to he said this is a mission immediately picked one of the two sides of the hero and he gave him the says his house they own the ship and one day it was walking with slapping its leg said I should grow in an after I think that the reason this is happening is it could be I maybe it's something's wrong with its foot that's not feeling well but don't necessarily assume that because it's slapping its leg that this means this animal has an hour to live and that it's a treif. There's no reason to assume that. He said he said how do you know maybe there's something wrong with its spinal cord maybe something very serious happened. Something more says but cool they would bite again right he turned out being right but even though even though said that but as a result this is not something you have to worry about. You know the vet says what did the hypochondriac write on his tombstone? I told you so. Right sometimes you get it right but in reality it's like this is not something that you necessarily have to worry about. What happens if you have says what happens if you have so these male sheep like rams and they're beating each other up and so you have these rams they're going at it and you have to assume now that you know somebody tore an ACL in one of these little scuffles. So that's the question here. Said no in interesting so another cool from in the world of treif. The first in the animal in here too so in says and even though these animals are walking around limping they're in pain that fits in right they look the look but similar reason they have a little bit of a fever yeah their body temperature I mean, their heart rate is uh pumping, but at the same time, you don't necessarily have to assume that they're dying. Says the Gamorah is stating that enough for the iron rather hash you know. In the event that, you know, they were playing the tackle version of this sport, if they actually were on the ground, well, at that point, oh, if their mom is getting bulldozed by linebackers, that situation, then already there's a shiver of treif. So, I'm going to Manashe. Manashe said, "Honey, give me the gun with the gun off of you." Another very interesting halacha. In the event that Ganovim come and they steal sheep. In chosheshin misum riskei varum. You have to be worried about riskei varum. So, let's uh work on the visual here for a second. The Ganov comes into the barn and he starts taking sheep, right? He has a whole getaway car on the other side and he starts taking sheep and he's throwing them over the over the fence. Another one and another one and another one. Well, these sheep are being tossed literally. So, there's reason to assume that if one of these sheep land in the wrong way, you know, it might have a little riskei varum. see why they might need a chiropractor after this. So, the question is do you have to be choshesh enough to be choshesh? So, Manashe said something very interesting. He said, "Ain chosheshin misum riskei varum." You know why? Cuz kishati lohu. So, you have to be a Ganov to appreciate this, but kishati lohu, when they would throw them amos nayu shati lohu. They would throw them in a way where they would land in a position where they're ready to to run, to fly, right? Because at some point there's going to be a chapsam here. Remember the dog that protects all the sheep? Well, he finds he's not going to be happy. So, there's going to be a situation. So, they throw it in a way where it's actually going to have a safe landing. Ke echad l'rato kamayu. So, like this they should be able to run. Ah, adrin. Oh, here's the interesting halacha. But, what would happen if these Ganovim, right after they steal, they have the hair of teshuvah and they realize, "You know something, we shouldn't be doing this. What are we doing?" Shuv ya mechud k'dei mis'ascha. So, then they take the animals and actually I gave it away a little bit. When they throw it back, we and the reason is no, no, no, take that whole story back. Actually, in the event that they throw back, then we Why we cuz when you throw it back, you're not so sensitive to what's going on. That's how if they threw it back was they heard the dogs coming, right? Guys are coming out with rifles. You take the sheep, you throw it, you don't care about safe landings, you're worried about your own landing. Then you start running as fast as you could. But if the reason they threw the animal back was actually we assume they did just like when they threw it the right way. When they threw it back, they did it the right way. No, I'm kidding. But they're doing it as a result, so there's no question when they return it, they want to make sure they're returning it properly. In the name of In the event that somebody hits his animal on his head. The whole club is And this guy, when he hit it on the head, so he's not the best aim in the world. He hits it in the head, but the that he used made its way down to the So he ended up not just hitting it on the head. He ended up like hitting it along the length of the animal. So the or it happened to reverse. He was trying to hit the tail and he ended up hitting like the whole length of the animal. Make it or he hit it along the entire spinal cord. You don't have to be worried about The reason is, as we'll see in a minute, even though hitting the animal in and of itself maybe would give us reason to be concerned a little bit about but if you hit in a way where you distribute the force of the hit, so there's no one area that got the brunt of it, and as a result, you don't have to be concerned. That's the whole point. He the whole is It's the distribution of the blow that tells us I don't really have to be so worried. Now if he shall go through I'll get I'll pal get the gab What would be in the event that the hit would be such that you hit it only on half. Well, in that case you would have to be worried. In the event that this thing that was used had nuts in it. So because it had nuts in it, so when you hit it, it's it's going to be very, very hard. Well, in that case always high sheen and because that's just very, very aggressive. That's cruel and unusual. In that situation, you're always going to have yourself a problem. If you mark your pass key additionally if you hit the animal not on the length of the animal but on the width of the animal. So again, there the blow is much more concentrated. It's like hitting it on half of the length of the animal. The width and the half of the length is, you know, sort of the same onion. And in that case high sheen and again, you would have to be worried. Another one of Nachman base her reckon in by mission we suke ya'avar. A child that's born do we have to assume that maybe this little baby because it went through the base I reckon, it went through childbirth. So maybe that caused some sort of we suke ya'avar. Interesting question. An animal that falls, you have to be concerned. An animal that's you know, playing in the field, you have to be concerned. So you see that anytime an animal deals with some trauma, you have to be high sheen that maybe there's we suke ya'avar. Okay, later to a degree in the trauma good day to me so said you have to be concerned that in the process of the later of the animal, maybe there was some we suke ya'avar. Now you can ask me if that's the case, how could you ever eat an animal? How could you ever eat an animal, right? You always have a problem. So the answer is 24 hours. Again, there is workarounds to this whole concept as we're going to see on base, but for now high level later, does that create this trauma that triggers we suke ya'avar or not? We Nachman told us that base boy mission mission so told us that I have a right to you I guess from a 10 night that's one day old in the event that some emerges from the body of this so that is there's already meaning that doesn't require an age a really has what's the other reason if you're going to tell me yes that is when it comes to lady it becomes why is this not a perfect example of the that says for so the in the parish of says ish ish of me that the only time ziva that emanates from a body is if it happened naturally but if you can attribute it to anything you can attribute it to the fact that it wasn't well or some trauma whatever might have been then the is it's not going to be now if you're going to tell me that lady mission mission that means it's a drama if it's a drama should never be able to be a and it's a THAT HE IS A WHO THAT SHOULD BE THE BEST EXAMPLE OF THE WORLD OF just like you're suggesting it might be the best example of the world of a trade of and you see it's not oh my God you see that even though you think the issue but it's not versus my skin against maybe that price is talking about with the animal was a dolphin it came out surgically it came out not naturally through the rather came out through a procedure it was a c-section oh in that situation we're not having the conversation all conversation is when it goes through the which is somewhat unnatural that's why we're concerned but to the extent that it came out and that would be the case another way from a eagle should not be on an eagle baby should not be on an eagle should not be on that >> [snorts] >> is you're allowed to be on on that is a but you see eagles should not be on should not be that means you should not be in that day that means you don't have to wait 24 hours so you see the of which means that when an animal is delivered there's no of going to it's talking about where it wasn't a natural delivery but rather it was a being that was a in that situation you obviously don't have to worry have another also the everybody agrees should not in the event that an animal is born together with its mom she says it's considered the context over here is we know has to go to the right animal has to go to a what does the do with it it depends in the event that it's a perfect the animal then the is he has me but it has a carbon if it has a mom then something that is allowed to eat literally as if it's cooling what happens if an animal develops a mom on develops a mom on so that's a whether or not would be allowed to eat it or not what's the do we look at it as but you it was not something that you could eat on because it's a kitchen it's not a carbon that's and as a result you aren't going to be able to eat it now that it developed a mom now it's technically in it should be okay that's a so the picks up and says those two that argued regarding the that develops a mom on but you could eat it or not they agree that if the was who if it was night left with the mom and in mind that that law is that mom you'd be allowed to eat it. What's the kasha? Another touchma. How could you tell me that if the animal was born with its mom on Yom Tov, eat it? I can't eat it anyways cuz if it was born on Yom Tov, so I have a problem of after wait 24 hours to make sure that there's not going to be an issue over here. And the this is the third time we asked this kasha. We asked this kasha about the that's the Ziva. We asked it regarding the should never be on Yom Tov. So good, I'll tell you the same thing. It was born to the Yom Tov. But you can't say that. You know why? Because me kodesh, then it wouldn't have cuz said that was the Indian culture as it relates to culture. There's no to a that was born obviously wasn't says you have to say skin on. This is talking about the karka. It's talking about where right after the animal was born it clawed its feet into the karka. If an animal does that, that's also a sign of life and a vibrancy. And in that case, you don't even have to wait 24 hours. In that case, you know for sure that it is going to be all right. So very good. His was based in by and the did what it always does, a few touchmas. Beautiful example of how the entire Torah just all interconnect. We're dealing with the base of the Ziva. And we start with the laws of Ziva, the laws of the laws of the karka. But the bottom line is what emerged was is is that holds the base of the karka is the base of the Ziva. His whole kodesh even was in the event that it went through the base of the karka. But if it was it wouldn't have even been a and another thing that emerged is that in the event it was the karka. character that's like gar pasul. The whole dish of that there's no at all. So but why would I assume that this animal might be a treif? Oh cuz it was born? That's considered natural. I mean it's as much as it's difficult procedure for the animal but this is the way it is. And as a result this is not something that we would do. Very much may in your So the background to this is is that the item before they shaft an animal they would take the animal they would knock it to the ground. They would quote unquote fell the animal. So they would knock it down to the ground. And if said that when they do that that in of itself doesn't make right. That would be a shot. That second before you have to check the animal you chuck the animal now you have to wait 24 hours. Right? So based on a story of who threw it enough there was once a show that fell in the and it made a very very loud noise. He came in and he says I'm not worried and he took me give me the finest cut of this animal I'm going to eat it. So the told him you know how do you know this? I'm so he told him I was this from the point of that when an animal is about to be slaughtered it anticipates what's going on. And what it does is it claws its uh toe nails its feet and finger nails into the ground and it tries to not get pushed in such a dramatic way. Because it has some control over its body at that point so even if it falls it's not this terrible fall and as a result it doesn't become a treif. The only time it be a treif is if it's this reckless fall. But being that point of so it's somewhat in control as it's falling it's for that reason there's no under Christmas lights. If an animal falls, mission says it's a treif. We already gave away the fact that it's may slice. Here the says but you should know if it stands up in the may slice. You don't even need the 24 hours and it's going to be okay. Bedika stating that to do a bedika some sort of examination to make sure that nothing is out of place. They buy you that you wouldn't need. So you don't have to wait 24 hours. You can do the bedika right away. But you going to have to do a bedika. Let's say it didn't just get up but it literally picked itself up and it started walking. Doesn't matter if it only got up and didn't walk or if it got up and walked even where it got up and walked pushed the other if it stretched its hand out to get up even if it pulled didn't get up at that point it doesn't need may slice. Meaning when we say under you don't even have to be under. As long as you pushed the other it's going to be fine. Same is true as it relates to walking. If it stretched lifted its leg to walk obviously even if it didn't walk then it's going to be okay and whatever that of is in the corner of you won't even need a bedika. But say near even if it just moved itself to get up even if it didn't stand and here's the even if it wasn't pushed even then it's going to be okay. So review that said under even about said in the name of even pushed is the equivalent of under. But took it a step further. He said even if it's near us the near is just like it chuckled a little bit. Pushed that means it actually stretched out its hand. Under means it physically got up but even if it's near on the word of then it of itself is going to be okay. Little more I mean we skip the parenthesis. In the name of of Tam. The foolish Amram. When we say that an afula sometimes needs bedika, so the halacha is what kind of bedika does it need? Sricha bedika keneged benei mayim. You have to check the benei mayim area. So that's the area. It's in the intestinal area. Amora Masutra. Acharei Mishnah Rabbah. I'll tell you what they say in the name of Rabbah. Sricha bedika keneged beis hacholo kulai. No, you have to check the entire animal. It's not enough that you only check the benei mayim. Amora Hunah Mar. Mar brei d'Rav Nechemia lei Rav Ashi. Simanim mai? Do you have to check the simanim as well? Like do you have to make sure that the kan and the veshet were in place? Amalei simanim kashin in eitz on the field. No, the simanim are protected keneged the filo. So as much as you have to check the whole cholo, but in terms of checking the simanim, that's already something you don't have to check. The next Gemara is going to pivot and it's going to talk about birds that fall. So till now we're talking about beheimos that fall with all the halachos. The next Gemara is going to talk about birds. It's going to take us knee deep into tomorrow's daf. So we are going to stop here. So baruch Hashem another intense week of daf yomi. But just to end with two very light horas. The first story is yesterday we spoke a little bit about the pasuk in parshas Kedoshim that tells the lo sasei of treifa. The anshei kodesh ti'uni ubassar basadeh treifa lo s'cheilu. Lakalev tashlichu oisah. The ikkar point of the pasuk is ubassar basadeh treifa lo s'cheilu, which is the backdrop to perek eilu treifos. The Torah prefaces the lav with the words v'anshei kodesh ti'uni. Additionally, the Torah tells you what exactly you're supposed to do with the treifa. What you do with it is is lakalev tashlichu oisah. And yesterday there raid, talked a little bit about what's this Akdam of Anshei Kodesh Tiyuli and we related it to the passing of Parshas Re'eh that says Ki Ki Am Kodesh Ata La'Hashem Elokecha in the possuk that talks about the neveilah and says that the neveilah is not something you're allowed to eat, but you're supposed to give it to the ger or you sell it to the nachri. Additionally, the psukim in the end of Parshas Kedoshim and Parshas Shmini that talk about how Kedoshim Tiyihu is an inyan that governs very much machalos asuros. So, whenever you find machalos asuros it comes together with this idea of the Anshei Kodesh Tiyuli. We spoke out the Chasam Sofer's kasheh that why do you have to take the possuk of the asur and treifah and give it to the kelev as if some last resort because you have nothing to do with it. Why can't you be mevatel it? Be mevatel it and once you be mevatel it, at that point you'll be allowed to eat it. You'll tell me eim mevatlin issur l'chatchilah, that's only issur d'rabbonan and the Chasam Sofer was mechadesh that you see from here that even though eim mevatlin issur l'chatchilah in Sugyas Shas is an issur d'rabbonan, that's when there's a taruvus lach b'lach with a davar osser is literally botel. But, to the extent that the davar osser is b'ein, it's going to be a taruvus yoveish b'yoveish, kulai alma meidi that eim marvin that eim mevatlin issur l'chatchilah is going to be an issur d'oraisa and the raya is literally from this possuk. We mentioned that this chiddush states on the night of Yehudah, but the bottom line is that was one hora'ah that we spoke about. Another we mentioned was is why can't you give it to a katon and don't tell me chinuch because chinuch is d'rabbonan and katon oichel neveilos basdin is not mitzvah So, how can I if lo sachilum is true for all these issurim? But, the Chachmei Ne'emanim have a chakiya that it could be it's only neged the three issurim that I mentioned meforash in the Gemara in Yevamos Daf Kuf Yud Daled Amud Alef and treifah is not one of them, neveilah is not one of them. So, why is it when it comes to treifah the kelev tashlicheinu and so on and so forth? When it comes to the neveilah, you give it to the ger or you give it to the nachri. Why can't you just go ahead and uh mevatel it? And we spoke out that it and give it to the cotton. So, we mentioned that could be the Anshei Kodesh Tiyun Lei, it's related to the Timtum Alef, the Kedusha, [laughter] and there's an element of Timtum Alef that you have even when there's a Bittul, right? That's the Heter that the Piskei Teshuvos brings in Siman Kuf Tes Zayin. And even though the Soiles LaMitzvah BaShem the Torah Sheleima says, "No, but we mentioned from the Chida that Mitzad Kedusha Uma'ala Umuktzah in the world of Kedusha is allowed." So, the Anshei Kodesh Tiyun Lei is not only why Basar BaCholov is Assur but it's also why LaCheil U'Tashlich kind of that's just a little bit of Hazara of what we spoke about in yesterday's Daf. But I saw just going through some of the Rishonim on this Pasuk the Anshei Kodesh Tiyun Lei something that made me stop in my tracks. And that is in the Abarbanel. The Abarbanel who KeDarkei BaKodesh is being Mefareish the Pesukim Al Pi Peshuto Shel Mikra. It's been a while since uh we did Chumash Shiur or even the Haggadah Shiurim which featured the Abarbanel very prominently. But the Abarbanel on this Pasuk says as follows, "VeEfsher SheYihyeh HaMa'amar Zeh KeMashma'o." It [snorts] could be this Pasuk the Anshei Kodesh Tiyun Lei U'Basar BaCholov DeTreifah Lo Yisa'cheil LaCheil U'Tashlich Na'aseh is meant to be taken KeMashma'o. Very, very literally. The year in Yana and the Inyan is as follows, "SheLo Yihyu Perutzim Lechol HaTreifos SheNitrefu BaSadeh." That you shouldn't be reckless and just eat the Treifos that were trampled in the field. "KeDarkei HaGoyim Nichbideihem VeSareihem." Which was the custom of the Inyei Yehudim. Their Nichbideihem, their nobles, VeSareihem, and their uh ministers, "SheYelchu LaTzeid BaSadeh." They would go hunting. "VeOif O Achaya Asher Yaharogu Im Kalbeihem Yoichlu HaTzeidim VeYarvu Lahem." And when they would go hunting they would bring their dog together with them. And they would hunt and the dog would hunt and whatever they would catch they themselves, the noble people, would eat. Tzeifah." So it's for that reason the Torah said, that you should be kadoshim, says the Torah. Cuz in the event that you're going to decide, you, you want to go hunting, you're going to do exactly what the NOBLE WILL DO. THAT'S FINE. BUT IN THE EVENT that you're going to go and you're going to catch animals through the club, I mean the club are going to be the ones that are going to catch. The kadoshim, you shouldn't eat it. The dog should go ahead and eat it. So it seems that there was this old custom that people would go out and they would hunt. And when they would hunt, they would go together with the dogs. They would catch, the dogs would catch. And they would eat everything. It didn't matter if they caught it or if the dogs caught it. You shouldn't do that. So that when you go hunting with your dogs, if the dog catches it, LIKE HE SHOULD eat it, you should not eat it. SO THE TREIF WHILE YOU'RE HUNTING, had it become a treif from from the dog, the dog is what tore it apart, let the dog eat what it tore apart, because that's already a beginning of an kadosh. The noble seems to be saying that it's okay to go hunting. In fact, the Torah is talking to the hunter. And by the way, you know WHAT THE SCRIBE TOLD THE HUNTER IS, SO WHEN YOU HUNT, DO IT LIKE AN KADOSH. DON'T DO it like regular noble and sorry. Your hunting should be different. Our hunting should be kadosh hunting should be holy. That's what we're saying over here. The kadosh hunting and that's the way that you should go out and you should do the hunting. And the main after you know, in the event that the club is going to go ahead and he's going to have something, so they would say, "Oh, perfect. Dog works for me. Thank you for lunch. Thank you for dinner. No, if the caliph is the one that created and caused in that situation what's the matter where this fellow sends the shiva to the night of Judah. Remember his name? So since the shiva tonight of Judah, he's this very very wealthy person and he owns acres and acres of land and he likes to go hunting sometimes and he asked him from a perspective. This is his famous line that he tells him to open up >> [laughter] >> THE SAYS I COULD JUST TELL YOU COULD HUNT. BUT YOU HAVE to do it differently. You don't hunt the way the people that are not from hunting. This is fascinating. This night of Judah is the gift that keeps on giving. This is the first very light heart. The second light heart is So the told the story in today's stuff. Few stories. But one >> [clears throat] >> a little longer than the others. The year that came from Israel. The army said my name is my name is a story. Is that's the way the story was presented initially where somebody brought a animal base there was a that was there on one side and he said it's a treif. And when I buy it or this he says what? I thought only if it's on two sides and if it's on one side and I buy it goes to great lengths literally track down and he asked tell me exactly how did the story go down?" He tells him the rest of the story and then for this this story that I was told is not really the way it happened and you know, I regret I'm told you why I even went to go and track you down because really there was nothing newsworthy over here. This whole story was really a mission. So when Rav Safra tells the story initially to Abaya, he doesn't when he came to Israel, we asked him his name, he said Rav Avira is my name. My name is Rav Avira. Rav Avira Margolis like only Rav Avira Margolis could ask a question on this Gamara. A question from a Gamara in Daf P. The Gamara says Rav Huna of Nosson once Rav Huna of Nosson once came he was a guest by Rav Nachman bar Yitzchak. On the way, so the people in Rav Nachman bar Yitzchak's house turned to Rav Huna bar Nosson and they asked him, "Mash mach?" What's your name? "Omalu say he told them, "Rav Huna." My name is Rav Huna. Omalu say they said, "Nisa marapuya." Can you please sit down? Yosiv, he sat down. They gave him a glass of wine. This was old school. Kablu soon as they offered him the wine, he took it meaning he didn't say, "Nah, it's okay. I don't need it." Oh, you want me to take it? No problem. He took it right away. Vishna b'chazminni and when he took the wine, he didn't twirl it then. No, he just took it in two gulps. He drank the entire cup of wine. Not just that, but he had there's a certain minig of that when you drink wine, you know, you go a little to the side and you know, you drink it. That's not what he did. Omalu say they turned to him and they said, "My time of course you know, >> [laughter] >> I asked your name, you tell me your name is Rav Huna. I mean, your name is Huna. Who talks about themselves that way?" Omalu say Rav Huna said, "I'll be honest with you. Bala she money. Rashy says, "Mikat Nusik Rav Huna." They used to call me Rav Huna since I'm young and and you ask me my name. I know since I'm a little boy I'm known as Rav Huna and it's for that reason that's what I TOLD HIM. AND THEN they Gemara said they asked him all these different minhagim that he did that the Gemara thinks was a little bit much. And that's the whole Sugya that's going on over there. But here [snorts] we have a Gemara where Rav Huna walks into Rav Nachman bar Yitzchak says, "What's your name?" And he says, "My name is Rav Huna." And they're very taken aback. Rav Huna? You call yourself Rav Huna? That's gaifa, right? Why would you call yourself Rav Huna? And he responded his response was that you know, since I'm young they used to refer to me as Rav Huna. So I don't know, since I'm a little kid this is always the way they were called me. Well, if that's the case, how come when this Sugya mirabbonan whose name was Rav Avira came to Rav Safra and they asked him, "What's your name?" He said, "Rav Avira shmainey." How come they didn't ask him, "Rav Avira, call yourself Avira." That's Rav Huna mirabbonan in Sukkah peh vov mem beis when Rav Huna said that my name is Rav Huna everybody was very taken aback. Why you calling yourself Rav Huna? It's No one talks that way. If that's the case, why is it that when Rav Avira said that my name is Rav Avira they didn't call him out for the same thing. Sukkah mirabbonan the Torah teaches pashut. What did Rav Avira say? He said, "Rav Avira shmainey." That was what he said. Chazimara mirabbonan mem aleph v'omar Rav Avira shmainey. My name is Rav Avira. This is the whole lotion is a little bit funny. My name is Rav Avira. They asked him his name he said Avira. Rav Avira shmainey. He said the Torah teaches what he was trying to say was is that my name is not Avira. Oh, but I prefer to be referred to. I prefer the moniker as Rav Avira. What he was saying is my name is Rav Avira. Like this Chaim Yankel, I'm Rav, my first name, Avira is my second name. When Rav Huna was asked his name, Rav Huna said, "Rav Huna." He didn't say Rav Huna Shmany Doses my nomen, and that's why they were very taken aback. Rav Huna, no one talks this way. And what was his response? His response was that "No, this is always the way I've been known." In fact, Rashi mentions a little bit. Rashi says that What does it mean this is always me? Katnusi Kakh Koirli Rav Huna. It could be what he was saying was, "No, no, my name is not Huna, and I like referring to myself as Rabbi. My name is Rav Huna." But the reason they asked him was is cuz when they said Mashma, he simply said Rav Huna. But when they heard Rav Avira said Rav Avira Shmany, they understood that his sofa was coming to say that my name is actually Rav Avira. But here's the point. The point is is that Rav Avira's name is not Avira, but he prefers the title Rav. His name is Rav Avira. What Rav Avira say this? What's his objectives? It's mentioned by Kitzur right here in the Tut Say Yar. It's mentioned very much not by Kitzur in a safer Shemos V'Kinuyim, and it's under the Mekar called Bal Du Shem. So we've mentioned many times over the years the Chasam Sofer and the Nadvir Yehuda, they're both very Myrich than Achas Shiver, and they talk about how once upon a time nobody had two names. This is one of the most brilliant Mekarim in the whole lexicon of Torah from the great going Rav Avira Margolios. But he says that they all said that you don't find anywhere anywhere that anybody had two Even in the S'man of the Rishonim, you couldn't find people that had two names. Everybody has two names, three names, four names. But once upon a time he said nobody had two names. Instead, Rav Avira Margolios, he goes through nuanced ways where he believes he found people with two names. It's not obvious. It's not What's your name? Rav Chisda Papa. That'd be easy. But no, things that you would never think. And this Gemara right here, Chulin on Aleph Amud Aleph, in the world of Margolies was a person that had two names. What are the two names? Rav is one name and Avira is THE OTHER NAME. THAT'S RAV AVIRA SHMEINI. THE RAYA, THEY DIDN'T CALL HIM OUT on it the WAY THEY DID TO RAV in the Gemara of Perek Eilu Metzi'os. This is classic, classic, classic Rav Margolies. And Rav Margolies has always a punchline, right? He says, "I'll prove to you I'll prove to you that I'm right." This is this is epic. So subtle, but again, classic, right? We do this a lot. This is classic. He says, "We know We know Everybody knows Anyone that's ever learned Gemara knows this. That in Bavel, someone that got smicha they used to refer to as Rav. And in Eretz Yisrael, if somebody had smicha, they would always refer to him as Rebbi." Right? There's a Rashi in Sukka that talks about Rav Zeira. Rav Zeira and Rebbi Zeira. So Rashi, Rav Zeira was from Bavel, cuz in Bavel everyone's a Rav. And Rebbi Zeira is from Eretz Yisrael, cuz in Eretz Yisrael everybody's a Rebbi. Who is this person? "Amali Rav Safra l'Abaye, chazima hait suvim rabbonan d'asimen RAV HE CAME FROM ERETZ YISRAEL. SO IF HE CAME FROM ERETZ YISRAEL, WHY IS HE RAV AVIRA? He should be Rebbi Avira. The terutz ne'eman is that was his name, Rav Avira Shmeini. Rav Avira Shmeini. And he goes in the footnote, Rav Margolies says that it could be With this he could be meyashev, he says, cuz there are other examples where you find some of the Bnei Eretz Yisrael were referred to as Rav. And he says, "Mi oidei'a?" He's thinking out loud. "Mi oidei'a if all those Ravs attacking our Ravs and it's not a kasha on Rebbi's on Rashi's klal that every single time you find Rav it's Ba'al Korcha of Bavel, and when you find Rebbi it's from Eretz Yisrael. It could be in those cases also these are Ba'alei Du Sham. THESE ARE PEOPLE WITH TWO NAMES, and that's why it's Rav, cuz Rav is actually the shem. Now, where did we speak about this recently? We just spoke about the name Rav. We spoke about it in the Machlokes Rashi and Tosfos that we had not so long ago. Where Shmuel used to refer to Rav as Abba. And the shaila is, why do you refer to him as Abba? Rashi says he used to refer to him as Abba miloshon koved. Tosfos says he used to refer to him as Abba, that was his name. Abba Richol. And the question is that according to Tosafot, so Rav's real name is Abba. Now, why is he known as Rav? Rav means "master of the world". But according to Rashi, that he was referred to as Abba Milashin Kovea, and presumably Rav Milashin Kovea. Well, if that's the case, what's his name? So, Reuven Margolies, you know what I think his name is? I think his name is really Rav. I think his name is Rav. I think that's his name. I actually think his name is Rav. And how about Smicha? If his name is not Rav, and they're calling him Rav because he's "master of the world". So, small when he wants to be him, he downgrades him, and instead of calling him Rav, he calls him Abba. Doesn't make any sense. Elema, his name was Rav. Now, where do you find Reuven Margolies anyone whose name was Rav? So, at the time we mentioned four examples. We mentioned Rav bar Shabba. We mentioned Rav Aha bar Rav. We mentioned Romi bar Rav, right? We mentioned a few different places where you find the name Rav. Here's another Rav. Rav Avira Yishmeini. It's one of two names. His first name was Rav. His second name was Avira. The bottom line is, this is classic classic Reuven Margolies. And where is he coming through to this case? His name was probably Rav Avira. No, cuz his name was probably Avira, and he's calling himself Rav because "I'm known as 'master of the world', BUT I DON'T WANT YOU TO CALL ME Rav Avira." If that's the case, how come the Gemara didn't ask the same kasha on Rav Avira that they asked to Rav Puna in Gemara Pesachim 112. It's interesting. In one of the footnotes here, Reuven Margolies says that it's Yitkan, that the reason people would give their child the name Rav was because, you know, they were hoping. It was like a Tefillah. They wanted that this child should grow up and should be to become a Rav. He says, "Moshe Rabbenu you find in the Gemara the name Kashisha. Mar Kashisha." Kashisha, Reuven Margolies says, was a name. What does Kashisha mean? It means old, right? It means old. Mar Zutra, Mar Kashisha. But he says Kashisha was old. People used to give the name Kashisha. It's one of his theories. It's a real name. It's a shame etsem. I Where do you even find something like that? So, he says, "What do you mean? In Yiddish, people today give the name Alter." Right? What's the name Alter? Alter means you should be to be So, you see there's a name called Alter. That name Alter has its roots in the Gamorah already, he says. He says, "You find the name Kashisha." He says, "I'm going to tell you one other one. I'll tell you one other one, and that is the name Bachya. The name Bachya. That's a Sefardic name. And who is Bachya? So, there's two Rabbeinu Bachyas, right? Rabbeinu Bechaya, Bachya. I know everybody gets excited when you say Bachya or Bechaya. You say Bachya or the Bechaya everybody gets excited, and if you say Bechaya, you don't know who's Bachya. It's a shiyel. So, the bottom line is Rabbeinu Bachya. [laughter] It was the Baal Ha'Emes Al Ha'Torah is Rabbeinu Bachya. And of course, Rabbeinu Bachya the the Rabbeinu Bachya. So, he says that there's a lot that academics are like very mesupak. No one really knows who Rabbeinu Bechaya or Rabbeinu Bachya Al Ha'Torah is. He says he's heard he's heard he's heard a lot of write on this. So, I'll just tell you a brief to one last excerpt. But in this biography of Shelley, okay, so some biography work, "O k'shem Bachya eino shem o etsem. It was never a real name. Kim kinui skuli that you should be to be LIKE ALTER. SO, RABBEINU BACHYA IS LIKE SAYING RABBEINU ALTER. IT'S A VERY very similar concept. That's the idea. FOR RABBEINU BACHYA the Al Ha'Torah, the Kad Ha'Kemach, the famous Rabbeinu Bachya who wrote his Pirush Al Ha'Torah and who wrote the Kad Ha'Kemach, right? It's the same author. Rabbi Yehuda Ish Mai. You should know his name was Rabbi Yehuda name wasn't Bachya. His name was Rabbi Yehuda. U'vei kol fin b'ksav yad mefurash b'sof sefer Kad Ha'Kemach. He said that he found that in the end of the sefer Kad Ha'Kemach, now this Kad Ha'Kemach he found in Ex Libris Yad. I'm going to try to read this. It's Les Manuscritos Hebreo La Real Biblioteca Madrid. So, he said he found this ruble in my dollars, right? So, he saw it once and obviously it was stored away somewhere. But, the bottom line is this came from some uh hebreo biblioteca in Madrid, Spain and he finds there in this library a savant of the original cada can make amazing. And this is what it says at the end. The kind of Islam cada can make a shiver a rabid Yehuda been Arab usher have the owner rabid back here who's known as rabid back here. But, anyway he said he found it before it's in in a library in Madrid, Spain. The bottom line is back here says the only thing was a shame at some but it was like a keynote a keynote of the school. Rabbi was also cute. So, I don't know does it mean that at the bris who's you can make me stroll back here don't sound like rabbinical back here. Out there is a name you give it a bris. Rab, I think also name you give it a bris but it goes off on a little bit of a tangent and he talks about different names that you find that people used to give partial blessing in school. Rab, back here out there but I shouldn't again in your name with the name Rab is a little bit tricky. You have Rab as in Rab and sometimes Rab can be a shame at some and it has fascinating after minutes. Number one could be that was the name of the great American Rab just like small saying with small. Rab's name was Rab. It could be if that's the case you going to have people that have two names with some sort of TO SAY NO ONE EVER HAD TWO NAMES. WELL, IF RAB COULD BE A SHAME at some Rab a viewer could be two names. So, anyone who has the preface of Rab you might have to ask yourself maybe his first name is really Rab. And it would also be me a shame the cloud that every child knows that the Russian school is that Rab is from bubble and Rab is from America. I am all you find some of the constant like Rab a viewer. And you find that he's referred to as a Rab. The truth is he's not being referred to Rab as some sort of lotion of hashish. He's being referred to as Rab because his name is Rav. So you saw it there Rav could be a shame or etzem. And once you know that, there's a lot of mechkarim that can flow from there. I and hate even the seforim of Rav Reuven Margolies. This is very much divrei picham chain the Uyin Hadvarim the Misha Umra.