Daf Hashavua - Nazir 10b

Okay, good evening friends and we're continuing in last time we learned and there the mission says as follows on if somebody says this cow said I'm a noer if I get up the cow is lying down and the cow is having a hard time getting up and the cow said I'm a noer if I get up or the door wasn't opening and the door said I'm a nazer if I open says you're a nazer presumably that's consistent with bashameita that even if you seem to say something that's somewhat nonsensical in the realm of nazeros it's like somebody says I'm a nazer from figs by the way the garra is going to say you could mix up figs and grapes in this week's para brings There's such a Okay. So if the guy says if the uh cow get the cow says if I get up or the door says if I open I'm a nazer. Bishame says you're nazer. B says you're not a nazer. And then Rabbi Huda says even when Bash said it, they only said it where you explain where you say this par is a carbon to me if it gets up. So not that you're a nazer but your user as a carbon. The Garra started off by asking cows don't talk. Ramy Bar in the first answer explained as follows. Ram B said what the guy is saying is the cow is lying down and the guy said the cow thinks it's not going to get up. So therefore I will be a nausea not to eat from its flesh if the cow gets up on her own. So is if and the cow gets up on its own. So now the question is but even though the cow got up on its own but it's still ridiculous. There is no such thing as being a nuzer from meat. How are you a nazer from meat? So bame goes according to it goes according to it. Bashame says if you say I'm a nazer from dried figs you're a nazer. And here also when you say I'm a nazer from the cow's bus you're a nazer. And bas says no you're not a nazer. The gumar asked what do you mean? We already had this. So this was the old and the Garra explained why it's not exactly like the case of uh Giggorus. It's a little bit different. The Gumarra said we need really three cases. We need the case of Giggorus, we need the case of Basar, and we need a case of the door. And each one says its own. But Ra has one simple question. This is five lines from the bottom. Does it say this whole shot is contingent on the fact that the nazir that the guy says he's vicariously living through the cow and he's projecting his thoughts onto the cow and the cow says if I get up on my own I'm a ner and the cow got up on its own. Wait a second. The we're putting words in the Mishna and the Mishna doesn't say he just said. So now I would just answer to that question. Okay, drop the mayah business and say the guy the cow said if I get upl whether by myself or in anyway or you you shove me up then I'm a nazair raba could have said that for some reason rava didn't say that would be the simple answer the question was the Mishna didn't say so then drop the why' you say it to begin with but rava like just completely falls off of his answer. I still don't know why. Okay. What I don't what the point that I don't have clear is there was a specific question and the answer could be very simple. Drop the maha. For some reason, Rava doesn't give that answer. I wrote that question on the side of the garra. That's what I was hazy about in the last year and Yehuda as Yehuda asked what's going on over here and we didn't really have a good answer to that question. Okay. But we still don't. But that's that's what I don't understand. Okay. Fine. Now, what is Ra's answer? This is where we pick it up. The cow was lying down in front of him and he said, "I will bring the carbon of a nazir if the cow gets up." Meaning, I'm not going to be a nuzir from the cow. I'm not going to be a from the cow because that's the old if you say something that you'reing that is no sh to Nazerus does that create nazerus the guy's not saying I'm a nozzer from the cow the guy's saying I will bring carbon nazerus so Yehuda asked last time but there is no carbon nazerus from cows that's the the nuzer doesn't bring a cow the rash says on the second line from the bottom be parlor But another would bring carbon as an orim like it says fine but rather said I'm sorry. Okay. I'm sorry carbon. So Gar asks carbon. A cow could be a carbon. The delis is not a carbon. A delus is not a carbon. Even though there are a lot of doors that probably are carbon. A lot of people they have perfectly good doors, but it's not the same as the other three people who changed their door to something blue or slate gray. So they have to immediately up beer of their door. So the door became a carbon. But that's not the carbon we're told. There's no there's no door. There's no door. Um that's a carbon. So now we have to fall off of this. Ra said something else. The cow was crouching. And what happened? If I don't get her up, if I don't stand her up, I'm gonna shove her up. He um meaning I am a nazer if she doesn't get up. Now, what did the guy mean if I don't get her up? Right? The cow is sitting there like a stubborn cow. Cows are really stubborn. They they're like they could be like teenagers, the cows. And they they're really stubborn. And the guy said, "If he doesn't get up, if I don't get her up, then I'm going to be an Azer." That's what the guy says. What happened? The cow got up on its own. Now, what did the guy mean? Did the guy mean if I st in other words, he says, "I am another if she doesn't stand up. She doesn't stand up. I'm another." So, what happened? She stood up on her own. So, so he didn't stand her up, but she did stand up to says like this the like the the the principle of what this guy is saying is he wants to stand her up with his hands. He didn't stand her up. So therefore, he's a n he's a nazer. He said, "If I don't if she if if she doesn't stand up, she I'm going to be a nazer." What he meant was if I don't I don't ring her by the neck and stand her up, I'm going to be a nazer. So, but he didn't cuz she got up on her own probably to spite him. The cow that's how that's how stubborn the cow was. He when the cow heard he said he's going to be an if he doesn't stand her up the cow said okay I'm gonna stand up so you could be a nuzer said no the cow's lying down now she's up so you don't have to be a nuzer you said I'm going to be if she doesn't stand up she stood up no but what you meant is you're going to be a ner if you don't stand her up and you didn't cuz she stood up on her own sha is like you very makbid the shame knows what the guy was was was after right what the guy was after is if I'm not successful and ringing the cow's neck and literally shoving her up I will be another soi said you didn't do it so you have to be bas is more more tolerant let's just focus on the objective over here you want her to stand up so you got what you wanted you might not have gotten it the way you wanted basel is an unov you know it's okay you didn't get it the way you want it you said, "Come on, we know what the guy means." Okay, that's how the Gumar is setting up the Let's see. We have to do ais the Mishna says that he says I'm because of her and she got up on her own. We're not adding to We're only adding the word not because he says not immed. Not that's not such a big deal to add the word not. It was said that this is what the story happened that it got up on its own says. What does mean his revealed mind person says this to say is the world thinks the cow is sitting so strongly no one could pry her up. So my goal is I don't want to be it's a pain in the neck but if I don't have the ability to stand her up by force and if she doesn't get up certainly if she gets Certainly if a happens if no ma happens we're meaning like this I don't want to be a ner cuz it's a meaning if I don't have the ability to pry her up with the and if she doesn't get up from there um if it gets up on its own. You said if I don't get her up I you didn't say from the denim of what you meant was it was lying down if you don't get up. And the cow got up. Alena Zeros. Okay. So, the bottom line is Bishame looks at the the principle of what the guy said. If I do not ring the neck of the cow and get it up, I will bear. Well, you didn't. What do you mean the cow standing? Oh, it did it on its own. But said, come on. You You just said if the cow doesn't get up, you'll be a cow got up. So the gar asks wait a second. Let's look at the said even when I said they only said it if you say this cow is a carbon to me. But wait a second. What do you mean if the guy said that I asser the cow like a carbon? According to this answer, we're dealing with regular Nazeros. We're dealing with regular Nazerus. The guy said no. The guy literally said no. According to the earlier answers where you said no misara I'm a noer from the animal then you could conrue it to mean you're going to the animal to you like a carbon or you said harbon but according to this answer you're saying harini knows you're mion so how could there be a tana in the safa that holds that you're assering the animal like a carbon you a regular statement of the zeros according to this answer. Look in Tyus is the last little Tus we have to do. Four lines of Tyus um the Garra says um let let me read the Garra one more time. Tell me the He only said it if you say this cow should be on me a carbon. But the cow has no uh effectuation because you're accepting upon yourself from but nothing happened on the cow. Nothing happened with the cow. So now we're going to have to try another answer but rather for example he said I'm going to be a from the meat of the cow if it doesn't get up the and it got up on its own. So listen carefully. You said I'm going to be a nazer from the meat of the cow if it doesn't get up. And it got up on its own. So one one more time he's saying I am a nuzer from the meat of the cow. if it doesn't get up. Not I'm gonna take upon myself nazerus from wine. I'm gonna be a nuzer from the meat of the cow if it doesn't get up and it got up on its own. So look to the gist of what the guy was saying is he wanted it to ring the neck of the cow. He wanted to physically pry the cow up. He didn't do it. So he has to be a noir. Not that he said I'm a nuzer from yan if I don't physically pry up the cow. He's saying I'm a nuzer from the meat of the cow if I don't pry o up the cow. Now this is bashita who bame holds that even if you make a statement that seems nonsensical in the realm of neros will interpret it to mean you're from okay but you're saying and it got up on its own. The gist of what the guy is saying is he wants to pry it open with his hands. He wasn't successful in doing that. The gist of what the guy is saying is the cow's lying down. Now it's up. So therefore, you're not a noser. You said if I don't get the cow up, I'm going to beer. The cow got up. You're right. You didn't ring its neck. It got up on its own. Good. The cow did the job for you. Great. No, Basil is more tolerant. You got what you wanted. You don't have to get what you want, how you want it. But here's a million-dollar question. Let's say the cat would not have got up. Then you would be a nazer. Yeah. But why? But you made a nonsensical statement. And hold nonsensical statements are ineffective. Says Eloy kas have another if the cow didn't get up um if the cow didn't get up you would be a but says that if you say let's say a guy says straight I am a nazer from the meat of the cow it's meaningless so why here if you say I'm a ner from the meat of the cow if It doesn't get up. Why if it would not get up would it be a zero space normally says that it's a meaningless statement? No is speaking. He's saying it according to the reason even if it didn't get up. It's also not a even if it didn't be because it's a nonsensical statement according to you that you say have you should be mighty to us that the gist of what this guy is saying because the cow is lying down now it's standing up and says no the gist of what the guy is saying is if I don't pry the cow open I'll be a ner and he didn't does not agree. He says, "No, the gist of what the guy saying is he didn't stand it up. I remember when I when I started in Rabonas where I didn't have in in a very in a different place." Okay. Not when I started in in a totally different neighborhood. So you know I uh from the beginning I I you know made sure certain hakas were observed. So there there's always a difference of opinion though if there one guy would always tell me at the end of the day they were kept. It doesn't matter if it wasn't kept for the right reason. You know it's it's it's always a debate. You know if you want to accomplish something is it enough just to accomplish it or is it important to accomplish it the way you want to accomplish it or do we just say it's just about results is it result is it result driven or the or the means also valid bi says I said if I don't pry it open I will be you didn't pry it open bas says what you meant was if it doesn't if it's not in the end standing you'll be a it's standing in the You got what you wanted. You don't have to get what you wanted how you wanted it. Yeah, it just it's interesting. Anyway, there is an amazing sh tonight at 10:00 about rain on the first night of sukus being a simmon braha. Okay, turning the whole suga on its head. And then there's a app followed by a on the first day of sukas coming out on chabas if you're interested. There'll be more tomorrow. Um, and I'm gonna say goodbye so I could uh I could get it together. Okay. Okay. Good night for coming. >> Thanks. Thank Let me know. You familiar with this album? All right. Yeah. My body is worthless.