Daf Hashavua - Nazir 13b

Okay, good evening everyone. Shalom aleichem, baruch haba u'varech Welcome everyone. Uh as the session this coming Sunday night we're starting Havruta Hilchot Hilchot Mikvaot. If anybody wants to join us Havruta Hilchot Hilchot Mikvaot Siman Reish Aleph and Reish Bet in Yoreh De'ah. Very beautiful image. Okay. We're learning Daf Yud Gimmel Amud Bet. The Gemara had a shaila about someone Ben Rechumi asked Abaye if somebody says, "I'm a nazir when I have a son." And another guy heard him and he said "Ve'alay and upon me as well." What's the halacha? Does he mean on your words? Meaning uh when you have a son, I'll be a nazir, or does he mean when I have a son? And if you're going to say no, he means when I have a son let's say somebody says I'll be a nazir when I have a son and his friend hears and he says, "And I." What does he mean? Does he mean when I have a son? When I personally have a son? Or does he mean I love you like you love yourself and when you have a son, I will be a nazir. So the Gemara says, "Im timsal omer kol de'amti." If you want to say that as long as you're in front of the person "Kisufei milta" it's he's embarrassed to say no when it's when I have a son personally. It's like embarrassing to say here the guy, he doesn't have a son finally he he is praying, you know, if I have a son, I'll be a nazir so it's embarrassing for the listener to say, "No, you know, uh when I have a son." In the guy's presence, he he means the person who whose presence he's in. What if What if Reuven says, "I'll be a Nazir when Levi has a son." And his friend hears and he says, "And I." So, he doesn't have to be embarrassed there that he's referring to himself. Do we say not in the guy's presence? He's talking about himself. Or maybe this is what he's saying. Rechem alei kvasach. I love him, the third guy, just like um you love him cuz you said you'll be a Nazir when he has a son. So, interestingly to me, the Gemara says "Teyku." That we happen to point out in Nedarim, when we're learning Nedarim, that the word "Teyku" uh Rav Nachman of Bresslov has revealed. And actually, it's a Befeirus Zohar. The word "Teyku" means they're missing the the Shin Nun. Teyku means they're missing the Shin Nun, and therefore they have to wait until Eliyahu is Megaleh to them the Shin Nun. And we explained that's why it doesn't say "Teyku" in Nedarim because the Mekubalim teach the Masorei Keh, the Bnei Yissachar, that Nedarim is the Masechta of the Shin Nun. Therefore, it doesn't say uh "Teyku" because it's already an era of Tikkun. They just say "Teyku." Ask him. So, it's interesting that in Nazir, it says "Teyku." But on Amud Aleph, it said "Teyku." So, here on one Blatt, on Amud Aleph, we have the word "Teyku." On Amud Beis, we have "Teyku." Okay, let's see Tosfos on Amud Aleph. Im tim selomar kol ba anpei kisufalei malsa. Dilma mistama hachi kamalei de rechem alei kvasach. There, it means I love I love you. Like you love yourself. I'm not Ruvein he knows she levy Ben. Or do we say that none is present and after he come here. He's referring to himself. Okay. Let us see fighter in the Gamara. >> Maybe the reason that it says take with someone is because we have a subject to what the Halacha is. But here it's not a question of what the Halacha of the subject Halacha we don't know what he meant and ultimately we don't know what his carbona is. So it's not a subject in the in the Halacha it's a subject in the sea of some what this person meant. So ultimately we could always ask him but let's say for whatever reason we can't ask him. >> Well, that's a good point. In all these question in all these cases why don't we ask him? Why don't we ask him or is it not relevant really what he says he means? We have to interpret what the words mean. So we don't even Okay. Um I mean the the Rishonim say it means take who. And okay. Let's see further in the Mishnah. Says the Mishnah if somebody says behold I'm a Nazir the Nazir K'Shlomo Ben and I'll be another one I have a son. So, he's taking upon himself one Nazirus straight up, and one Nazirus when he has a son. So, his mineh ashlei, first he counts the Nazirus that's not dependent on a stipulation. V'achar kach nolad lo ben, if afterwards a son is born, mashlim ashlei, he finishes up the Nazirus was unconditional. V'achar kach mineh ashlei b'nai, and then he counts the Nazirus for his son. Let's see Tosafos. Hareini Nazir v'Nazir k'sh'Y'L'Y Ben. D'hasha k'sh'sh' kibbel Nazirus d'nafshi b'reisha, here he accepted his own Nazirus first. V'his mineh ashlei, he starts to count his. He accepts it before the Nazirus of his son. V'im lo y'siameh nidrei, when he finishes Here, it's interesting Tosafos says when he finishes the days of his neder, m'galeach, he shaves. U'meivi carbonos l'Nazirus d'nafshi, he brings carbonos for his own Nazirus. V'achar kach mineh ashlei, and then he counts. Mhm. When he finishes the days of his neder, he's m'galeach, he brings carbonos for his Nazirus. V'achar kach mineh ashlei b'nai, then he counts the Nazirus for his son. B'chein k'sheyashlim es Nazirus b'nai, y'galeach v'yovi carbon l'Naziruso. So, according to Tosafos, he's going to shave and go through the process two times. First, he counts his own personal Nazirus, he shaves and brings his carbonos, then he observes the nazirus that he committed if he would have a son, and then he shaves and brings the carbonos for that. That's the first case of the Mishna. The Mishna continues. Hareini nozer k'she'yeileid ben. If first he says, "I'll be a nozer when I have a son." V'nazir, also I'm a nozer. So, first he made the nazirus that was not dependent First he made the nazirus that was dependent on the son, and then he took upon himself a stam nazirus. Hischil minei shel eilav. He didn't have a son yet, so he start He first started counting his own nazirus. Let's say on day 20, v'achar kach nolad lo ben. Then he had a son. What does he do? Maniach shel eilav. He puts his personal nazirus aside, his 20 days, u'mineh shel b'no. And he counts the 30 days for his son, cuz first he said, "Hareini nozer k'she'yeileid ben." The only thing is, he didn't have a son at that time, but he's first committed to that. So, as soon as he has a son, he pauses his personal nazirus that was unconditional. He observes the nazirus for his son, and after that he counts the nazirus of his own. V'achar kach mashlim shel eilav. Then he completes his own. Now, regarding shaving and bringing the carbonos, well, what happens? Does he He certainly doesn't do it after 20 days. Does he do it after the nazirus for his ben? Does he do it uh twice? So, we have to see. Let's see Tosafos on Amud Aleph. Ma ma ma ma ma ma ma Tosafos on Amud Aleph says, "Hareini nozer k'she'yeileid ben v'nazir. D'hashta kiyvan d'nazirus d'v'no b'reisha." In this case, he accepted the nazirus of his son first. The Nazirite alone Nazirite of the newborn baby accepted all of Once it's had how do you read this? The harsh decree upon the Nazirite of the newborn baby The Nazirite alone Nazirite of the newborn baby accepted his own Nazirite upon himself. And then besides the Nazirite of his son he accepted his own personal Nazirite. His counting of the days shall I So he starts by counting his own. The newborn baby first actually he shall remain young before he finishes counting the minion for his own. My near shall I he drops his. He pauses his own minion I shall be nigh. Counting the counting of all of the days shall I Nazirite of the newborn baby. He was first the Nazirite of his son. Who is compelled to observe the Nazirite of his son as soon as the son is born? The after he shall remain Nazirite of the newborn baby After he shall remain the Nazirite of his son He shall remain the Nazirite of his own after after he shall remain the Nazirite of his own. Wow. He's not allowed on his on his son's Nazirite. He He does his son's Nazirite. He does not shave. He doesn't He does not bring carbon ice. He completes another 10 days for his own Nazirite and then he is on both of them and he brings two carbon ice. After he shall remain the Nazirite of the newborn baby After he shall remain the Nazirite of his own. I will allow you to after he shall remain the Nazirite of the newborn baby. He doesn't shave after he finishes the Nazirite of his son. Because then how The reason he doesn't shave because how could he complete his own Nazirite? He shall remain the Nazirite of his own. He shall remain the Nazirite of his own. He would not be able to take and cut his hair after his own nazirite. The end give those are positive Wow, you hear what's going on over here? The reason why he can't shave after he observes his son's nazirite is because if he's going to wait if he's going to observe 10 days to be mashlim his own nazirite then it will come out he's cutting his hair after 10 days. There's no such thing as cutting hair after 10 days in the process of nazirite in the case number one where you said first I'll be a nazirite and if I have a son I'll be a nazirite. So, we say first let him observe his own nazirite and then [snorts] he'll observe the nazirite for his son. So, he'll shave and bring the carbon is after 30 days and then he'll observe another 30 days. The rule is you can't cut hair as part of the process of nazirite if it's less than 30 days. When he hear that's what this points out in another nazirite maruba she he nisha after nazirite the benai shloshim yom. The truth is if he said if I have a son I'll be a nazirite and I'll take a 100 day nazirite that and he observes let's say 30 days and then he had a son. So, he could shave after the 30 days. I'm sorry. He could shave after nazirite benai and then he has another 70 days to go if he shaves for son's nazirite he won't be able to be gulach on his own nazirite. So, therefore he's not until he's mashlim both nazirite and he brings two carbon is okay. That is the Gamara. Boy Rava. Rava had a shaila. Amar Hareini Nazir l'achar esrim yom. The guy says, "I'm going to be a Nazir in 20 days from now." A delayed nezirus. In 20 days from now, I'm going to be a Nazir. U'mei'achshav u'venah now, I'm going to be a Nazir for 100 days. So, he says, "I'm going to start a nezirus of 30 days in 20 days, but right now I want to be a Nazir for 100 days." I would like to meet this guy who has all these interesting plans, life plans. So, what do you plan to do in the new year? It's after It's after the Yom Tovim. What do you plan to do? I don't know. I'm going to join Chavrusah. I'm going to join Daf a Shavua. I'm going to join By the way, listen to fundamental themes of the parsha from the Ramban. It's out of this world. Also, the Rambam on the parsha. But, this guy says, "You know what I'm going to do? In 20 days, I'm going to be a Nazir, and now I'm going to be a Nazir for 100 days." So, then you're going to miss the Chavrusah share. Yeah, that's what I was my kavana. I don't want to go to it. I can't go to I'm not into Chavrusah, the guy says. I want to be a Nazir. So, the halacha is that which one does he observe first? Mahu? Keivan d'cholin meya v'esrim lo shamin. Mahu? What's the halacha? Since the 100 days lo keivan d'cholin [snorts] meya v'esrim lo shamin, he won't be able to observe the 100 days in these 20 days. Make cuz he In 20 days, he has to start a new nezirus. His first commitment was in 20 days, he's going to start 30 days. He can't get in 100 days in in 20 days. Lo cholin, maybe his 100 days is not a dilemma. Listen, even though it's like you don't sell a life. This is what he's going to do. He'll have 30 days afterwards. Meaning, he could get in 20 days. When 20 days come, he has to observe 30 days. And then after the 30 days, he'll do another 80 days. So then Hollen, mean the shala is do we say he can have a right in 100 days and 20 days? So the 100 days are not Hollen or okay, he'll have a right in 20 days in those 20 days. He'll observe the 30 days when the 20 days kick in. And then after the 30 days, he'll finish up another 80 days. Let's see Tysus. By Rava. By Rava. Amara Harenia Nazala Kofia Mayaxam Mayayama Kiven the Hollen Maya. Yaim. Loisha Bahana Mayaim. He won't be able to finish in those 20 days. So the Hollen is your shala Mayaim Allah. Mayaxam, maybe those 100 days are not Hollen. The Mistama in Das Hoisha Hapsek Nazir Shiyumna Asim Yaim Minam Mayaim. It's not It's Mistama the guy never had in mind all of my 100 days I'll observe 20 now. And after 20 days, I'll count another zeros of 30 days that I accepted and vowed myself to kick in after 20 days. And then I'll count another 80 days of a Shiyumna Shiyumna Hashima Mayaim. Al Acharai Shina Yachala Hashima Zisa Kofiam Bahalen Kof. If he can fulfill 100 days in those 20 days, Daitai. His mindset is Shaeel Kofiam you Penuim. I'm going to be free for 20 days. Fia Bia I'll be able to drink wine of a Tag Lahas in those 20 days Bahana Kofiam. Bia Yim Lamiyam Ligaliah. then I can't 30 days to shave your weak carbon. And what rather means is after that I'll observe 100 days. When we say the 100 days is not how it means it's not how before at all, but it is how after that's for sure. Even though from the maybe there's a side 100 days is not how no it's not how. It's not how before it's how after. And will observe 100 days with sufin the guy the only carbon. So in on day 20 of 30 days will kick in on that 30 days will be over shave and hold bring carbon is and then we'll count 100 days and we'll shave and bring carbon is my mayor. Why did you say from It means also now I accept upon myself 100 days. Obviously they'll kick in when they're able to kick in namely after the 30 days. Okay, I do must give four lines and Titus I do my. Will he be able to observe 30 days after the zeros to be able to shave after growth of 30 days? So we're not concerned for the interruption. In this case he'll even be left with 80 days. Therefore he counts 20 days the zeros to me I am he counts 20 out of he interrupts the the only Carbon the Acharei Kein, Yimna Peyom, then he counts 80 days. L'hashlamas Mayah Yom. The Hochi Nami Aminam B'braisa. This is also said in a Braisa, the Maiseh the Kaman, that we bring later on. Acharei Shmona Lamed Yom. In a Min Peyom L'hashlam Hamayah Yom. Alo Esam Shmona Kodem Shishim Yom. You only have to observe 80 because you already observed 20 before. The Af Gav the Tiglacha Susa. I, usually when you shave, it undoes a previous Nazirus. Ainu K'dei She'eil Acharei Tiglacha Shishim Yom. It's only so that you have at least 30 days worth of growth to cut. K'dei Gido Se'ar Aval Nish'ar Acharei Acharei Tiglacha Shishim Yom. But if you can have 30 days at Kol Nazirusai. Ainu Shoshe'a Klum. It doesn't uproot anything K'dei Se'ar Gido Se'ar the Tiglacha Tahara because you have a a growth of the hair growing as a Nazir. V'acharei Amira Perek Gimmel Minan. And here you have 80 days. So the Gemara asks Rava why did you come up with such an unusual case? P'tei Baylei Nazirus M'tus. Rava should have asked the question even by a short-term Nazirus. What does that mean? Rava should have asked this question even by a short-term Nazirus. Rava could have presented the question of somebody, let's say, he's Mekabel Nazirus Stam that it's going to start in 20 days. And then and he then he accepts not 100 days, Stam Nazirus, 30 days. Namely, so if he's going to start the second Nazirites for the first 20 days, so then he has only 10 days left. Again, he wouldn't be able to shave after the the Nazirites that starts after 20 days. So, why did Rava have to talk about a guy who said, "I'm going to accept Nazirites in 20 days from now and may ask of 100 days. Why 100 days? Why not 30 days? What is 100 days adding? Now, the truth is what it adds is it allows you to shave after the standard zero that begins after 20 days. But, that's not the question. The question is does the guy mean to observe part now and the rest later or push the whole thing off till later? So, why did Rava have to come up and ask this question and present the question by 100 days? Says the Gemara, the truth is khada migo khada coming by night. Rava asked one question along with another one. And because he asked the question along with another one and the other one needs to be with 100 days, this question, which is the operating principles of the question, would be the same whether it's 100 days or 30 days, but he picked the case of 100 days. Says Tosafot, the tibay lay Nazirites we learned in the bottom of the page Nazirites the standard Nazirites to shloshim yom going to amar. Hareini nazir alacha ason yom. A guy says I'm going to be a nazir after 20 days. And he knows he has to add him another now. So, do we say it's khol now? He'll count 20 now and he'll leave the rest for He'll count them 30 days and count another 10. And he won't shave until after all 60 days? Or do we say no, he'll push off the second 30 days until after he observes the first 30 days? So, why did Rava have to present this question with about a guy who says, "I'm going to observe Nazirites in 20 days from now and now I'm going to observe 100 days. He could have said and now I observe 30 days. And we'll see next week Vayikra and Baruch She' heyanu v' kiy'manu v' higi'anu la'z'man ha'zeh that we completed the daf and it's Tuesday. And we're up to date in Ian Shiurim, so that's also a big chiddush. And you have the whole week to review or and you can come to our show we review it on Shabbos. Ya'akov Ya'akov will be there. Me and Dr. Vine we review on Shabbos together, right? Okay. Have a good night. Tota. >> Yishar koach. Yishar koach. >> Baruch tihiyeh. Yishar koach.