Shabbat: Forbidden to Cook - Part 3 - Rabbi Reuven Lauffer

it is a problem on Shabbat with putting things into something which is very hot right so for example a big bowl of soup right or a couple of a cup of hot water that you want to make tea with if the thing is in what's called a clearish and a clinician is there is the the pot that sits on the heat source mmm right so for example if we're talking about a hot water so you've got one of these hot water things that are plugged into the wall right that would be a clear ish and clarissa means the first vessel right now clear vision is a considerably a source of hot heat hot heat no I said I deliberately hot heat not just heat but very hot and there because of problem with putting things into something which is in what's called a clear ition so for example if you want to take out soup and you want to pull your soup into a bowl that's fine the bowl then becomes what's called a cliche d that's your second vessel and then it would be okay to put in other added things so you want if you want to add croutons into your soup you don't put the croutons into the soup bowl that's sitting on the hot plate but rather you wait till the soup as we put into your bowl and then you add things in if you're going to put something in which going to enhance it's going to enhance the cooking process for a dyno you put salt into something right which is going to enhance the flavors that have been a rare that are being that are being used artificial sweeteners so into the suit also the question is where and when right so you can't put salt ah it just dissolves even if it's going to enhance the cooking process which is what salt does ultimately things that you need to be concerned about here with regards to Shabbat are things which may not be completely cooked or even uncooked and are going into something very hot so a good example of that for example is I've artificial sweeteners so if you add them into the hot water that say for example you know aspartame whatever it is or saccharin whatever whatever people use if you put them into your cup of hot water then what you're doing basically is that you are cooking it right and that's a problem how do you get around the problem so we've got a rishabh which is where the hot water is based that's the heat source with the hot water in it we pour it into a what's called a cliche d which is the next next vessel along and then we pour the hot water into a cliche she all right which is the third vessel and then you can add your tea and you can add your red you can add your sweet now whatever it is right now that the heat let's put it this way you can't put your finger into a clean rashon because it will get burnt right okay you can't really put your finger into a cliche she either write the the amount of heat that's being lost on the way is you know you're going to say hold on a second so if i put my sweetener into the cliche she into that third vessel so what's a big deal it's still going to cook along over there and the answer is that we're talking over here in halacha terms which means that once something is gone right a locker is Jewish law right so once something has gone into a cliche she then that's not considered to be something which can cook anymore even if it's going through some kind of the process once it goes in there so again you put sweetener in you want your sweetness a mix into the water you want it to taste that the whole thing should taste is and it's been sweetened not just you know that the bit that drops to the bottom or something and that's okay there's no problem with that because once it's got into that to the vessel then it's considered to be out of York now out of cooking range with regards to Shabbat look most the conversation is it like well if you transfer it over one time that's no no but a second time into a third vessel now you're in the clear so the amount the amount of heat that's being lost is sufficient to make some kind of a difference alright so once it goes from the clear ocean it's a cliche d you are losing heat there's no doubt about it once you put water into our into a cold cup in general right you know in England's well if you want to make a proper cup of tea in England you gotta hit up the cup you've got that right or you put right you pour your water into the cup and then you pour out the water and then you start making your tea because your cup has to be you know nice and warm in order to be able to receive leave the tea why can't you just pour it into one cup and then wait however long it takes right oh you know what the others did you you could do that most people don't have the patience to do that oh okay so you really is just a thermal yeah right you know you want a cup of tea not most people are not gonna say okay I'm gonna want a cup of tea in 20 minutes right so I'll pour my water into the whatever 15-minute vote is I put my water into the cup and then i'll wait for it to cool down enough that nothing's going to happen when I put my teens when I put my sweetener into it right so people want to be able to do it straight away was it can they not like a designer Thomas and that keeps the temperature that keeps watering the temperature it would be suitable for that purpose you know I mean like so they're also hot me oh I mean presumably they probably could I think the problem the problem is of course that that most people I think most people prefer to have their water hotter than what we're talking about which means that it's getting it into a third vessel is a method of reducing the heat illogically now I don't know we could you know if we had a thermometer that went into going to boiling hot water we could do an experiment and we could take a cup but we can work out you know exactly how much cooler it's going to get I don't you know heat wise thermometer why's it probably does make a pretty significant difference I'm not convinced that it's going to make so much of a difference with regards to the cooking ability the whole architecture must be based on like an empirical measure it must be there must be also it's interesting yeah the absolute it bore which is which is hot enough that you put your hand in it you're going to get burned you know that's that's a holic definition right yaad so Ledet ball like that your hand is going to be burned by the water and that that's that's if my memory serves me correct 45 degrees forty-five degrees that that's pretty hard yeah right now when you take 45 degrees out of it you know let's say out of out of your kettle which presumably that's what it's going to boil itself up right until not another shabbat you're just going to boil up the capital and the hot water with activity it's going 45 degrees you're going to move it from that into cup number one so that's now your cliche that's right that's really vessel number two and you're still not gonna be able to put your finger in there and then you're going to move into the vessel number three and I still don't think you're going to be a bunch of finger in there which means it's not that the definitions over here are not going to be defined through heat what once you once you once you've reached that 45 degree point moving it across from vessel to vessel is not going to be defined by heat anymore is being defined by how many vessels has it gone into that's how that's how that's how the law is defining over here what's what's cooking and what's not those clothes that's a girl it's like a kind of well I think it's practical pants and metaphorical at the same time which means that in order for us to in order for us to get beyond the problem of cooking on Shabbat you've got to practically move it from vessel number 12 vessel number two the vessel number three right that's not really making a huge difference in terms of the heat well again I think I think that it probably does make a big difference in terms of the heat but I'm not convinced it makes a big difference in terms of its potential to cook that's the difference between the two right which means by the time you've gone from the kettle into vessel number three I would imagine that your eve now you've probably dropped an awful lot of an awful lot of degrees i'm sure really yeah yeah it doesn't it doesn't make every what was it what was it the thing with water is that because it's one body of water and it's all very hot right but putting here like again put putting your hot water into a cold cup is going to cool it down considerably it's just not going to call it down enough for you to be able to put your fingers in it and I had an issue there's an issue where if you're pouring with you please is house watering it irregular like might be a problem as you might be right you might you might be cooking the water that's in there with a new water that's going in so tall again it's all it's all very it's all very detailed right which means that you've got to be careful when you come and you use your the cup that you're using to pour the water into it's got to be clean right it should be dry because otherwise if there's something in there it's going to end up being cooked here are the other things just in general powders right you know cocoa powder soup mix all these kinds of things they need to go into a third vessel because of the concern that if I put it into anything less than that then it's going to cook whilst it's a whilst it's in there now the exception to the rule over here is so you may you may go to somebody's house you may see that they're not careful about this thing why they're not careful the truth is they are careful about it but there are certain things which have been through a cooking process of its own before it gets into the jar right and that's something which is going to be a lot less complicated right we're talking up not just baking or roasting process but it's been through a whole process of cooking so I don't know if somebody can help me out over here but you know maybe some kind of powder that's used either to make a drink or to add flavor to something you know what sugar right sugar has been through our whole process before it gets into the bag right in order to be sold in the supermarket and it's been through a whole cooking process in order for it to get to get to where it is which means that sugar is less of a problem for example on Shabbat then some kind of artificial sweetener because artificial sweetener is vary depending on what it is has not been through that kind of the process okay it's looking quizzical inside of Jewish law inside of the goals of cooking there is a concept of a visual official which is you can't cook there's no there's no halacha cooking after something's been cooked okay so let's take the chicken right you could you could take a chicken which has been cooked and you could put that into something very hot and that's less of a problem because it's already been cooked even though it is conceivable that something might be happening i would add something might be changing it maybe it will lose maybe some of its pinkness but that's not considered to be the same kind of a problem as taking something which has not been through a process at all and beginning from the beginning but let's take off a minute because we're actually should have done this at the beginning just a bit of background all right there are 39 forbidden things on shabbat 39 categories what are called the llama tet malik art which is the 39 different categories of work which are forbidden on Shabbat what forbids them is that they were work that was used in order to to fabricate the tabernacle in the desert and that's considered according to halacha according to Jewish law that's considered to be creative work now it's a very important very important to definition the idea is what's considered to be creative work and what's considered to be non creative work non creative work is ok to do creative work is a problem what's the definition of creative work not what we think right not our definition but rather than a torus definition of the 39 what are called ave melaka they are the they are the 39 categories within which you'll find ok each one has got a whole bunch of offshoots to come out of it right so i would say like this like you just said yeah that ok so let's say that it's forbidden to cook on Siobhan so what's the definition of cooking he's taking sugar and putting it into hot water that's not cooking cooking is taking a slab of meat and putting it in the oven right so ok so I understand that you can't cook meat on Shabbat right but what's the big deal about having to move the water from one cup into another cup into a third cup in order to be able to have a cup of tea that's ridiculous right which again is a perfectly it's a perfectly rational response as far as somebody who's not familiar with the concept of what the halaqa is teaching that's a perfectly rational response right where is that the halaqa kicks in by telling us that there again creative work worth versus non creative work this falls into the category now it is possible but some things may fall into the category which are rabbinic prohibitions as opposed to Tara prohibitions so good okay so we've got like the rabbi's came along and they added a few layers of prohibitions just to make sure that we're not going to transgress the Torah prohibitions which is that's that that's a big problem right so let's take your mom for a minute so she goes to a religious persons house for shabbos they rinse off the plates they put them into the dishwasher the dishwasher course has to be off because if it's got you know which on and the lights are going to flash when you open up the door and when you close the door and it's going to beat the Bourbon you know whatever whatever sounds dishwashers make right then that's good that's a problem we don't have itself electricity is a problem right electricity is creative work but to store the plates away inside of the dishwasher so that on motzei shabbat on Saturday night when Chavez goes out you can just switch the dishwasher on and let it you know let it let it start its work that's okay because you haven't really done anything I'm not a big fan of all these things but is it is it halacha CLE okay it could be right if the main job is to wash up then it's not it's not my business how she washes earlier all right so she can put on the dishwasher or she could for all the dishes in there really isn't a lot of difference between the two you should know because it puts all the dishes in the sink and wash them up that way you're using hot water which is be going through the boiler right by switching on the hot water I'm causing water to be boiled up and to come out as heart which is it just it's a different prohibition but it's a prohibition on Shabbat anyway right I I can clean those plates lunch on Friday night if I'm not if I need them again for shabbat lunch right i can clean those clean those plates and shabbat friday night right just by doing it in a permissible way which is rather she was switched on yes i'm saying if it's somebody who's non-jewish comes in and takes care of all of this it isn't doesn't make yell i can use those plates on their own shabar because they're not transfer I'm just listening I'm it's where where the distinctions are it's it's difficult for me too because I'm coming from perspective of well electricity is just electrons which are all around us all the time or in us and are working all the time right now and they just have to be in a line in some kind of wire and they're just have to be flowing yeah back and forth in a why they're in in the form of alternating current which is what we get from out of the plug what our dishwasher it uses its the same electrons that are moving back and forth we're not even really going on the phone so the amount of work that they're doing is 0 here right huh so it's got it's got nothing to do with effort you've got guests coming on shabbat morning like is it permissible for you to move your sofa from one side of the of the Sun on to the other one for sure now you're not doing anything can I can I get work more than I can I take the sofa out of the room and take it up the stairs you know it's big this thing right and but but you look like a big guy right so you can you can you can you do that can you take it up the stairs and put it away somewhere right in order to make sure you've got enough space in shabbat yes you can because that's not considered to be creative work you've done that a thousand county for it it's all had at this point not great at all good when you when you switch on the light again that's a definition of the rabbi's and it's interesting that the electricity is an interesting thing whether it's a rabbinical prohibition or whether it's at our prohibition but when you switch on the light that's considered to be a creative act the 39 malach ought are that each one is like each one is like a like a category heading right so you know preparation of food heating up of foods they're not all food related right they've got all different whole series of different things over there we'll just in terms of like what why why turn out a light or or activating an electronic device why is that you know forbidden why is that a creative act of work but but moving your couch is not right so so there is there is a prohibition I again it depends which approach you take there's a prohibition or something called boner which means it's forbidden to build something what does the build mean to build something to finish up something on shaban right when I flick that switch according to one opinion what I'm doing is I'm built I'm building that circuit right without my flicking the switch then the light can't come on and making the last that's the last bit of the last bit of the puzzle that has to be done ok in order to allow the light to come on when i move the so far i'm not doing and I'm not building anything I'm not doing anything I'm just it might for it might be a problem and for example to to take care take a sofa that's in pieces and put it together right ok that that would be a problem of building but there are certain things which we that we look at it we don't look at you when we look at them we don't see building we just see you flick a switch and the light comes on right what do I done what's the big deal right but the circuit is being completed the circus being completed yet on that that's one of the definitions of you've created something with that without what you're doing it wouldn't have happened mhm whereas the sofa the sofa would always be there if I don't move it over to stay where it is it won't go to where it needs to go to but I feel like that's that that's what work is anyhow it look it without you it would not have happened that's that's what oh very good right so if you've got it depending on what you do right some work that we do all we're doing is that we're taking pre-existing things and we're putting them around in a different way and that's where that's what our work is coming from right other things that we do we are taking pre-existing things changing their status all together and turning them into something else night so the difference where I'm trying I'm trying to think of an example that's going to you know be easy to understand but taking a piece of pre cooked food and heating it up right as opposed to taking the food and cooking it right even though the end result is going to be the same are two different completely different categories inside a Jewish law and Shabbat maybe it does that does that help is that well that was only that I was familiar with and it if the goal is so that and this is you know economics focus so like what's what's you hurt the end result what's your goal what's your payout um what's the utility of the function um you can only do so much you can only do so much prep work you can't design you know a fourteenth course meal inside of your to be served on Chavez outside of the like there are some things that have to have it inside of that with it okay so what was what what you have to do I'd if you what if you want your 14 course meal to be served up on shabbat morning right what you have to do is you have to ensure that you're using foods which do not require immediate preparation and heating up right so for example you could you can take eggs and you can mash them up on shabbat morning you you can take a lot of a lot of food if you're familiar with you know traditional jewish food on shabbat morning so cello which we spoke about last week right Cholon is a stew that just sits there simmering until shabbat morning and then it gets eaten because that way you can have something nice hot and filling but it's unit you're not you're not doing anything you're not preparing anything on Shabbat itself which is going to transgress any of the laws over here you have no pets i'm talking like an exile prepare for sure you cannot make sense with perfect vision as well for sure you're saying that I just uses an example you know you wanna you want a fresh salad right so you can take all that all the bits and pieces all the vegetables that you want out of your fridge you can take them out on shove that morning you can cut them up and you can put them in your bowl and you can set up a nice fresh salad that's not a problem right actually for that but you couldn't do that finding that I is that correct like if you wanted to make a celica shutter stay you can prepare us should wait wait until shabbat morning and prepare it that right what's the issue it's preparing for the next thousand or normally we said I'd they said things that need to be prepared to be prepared immediately before yeah right in order that in order that it should be clear that what's being prepared now is being prepared for what's needed now that's like a that's like a technical a technical detail as opposed to preparing something which has to be cooked so my my understanding my takeaway is don't work on Chavez if you give its work don't do it hang out relax enjoy each other read a nice book online from like and that's that's your goal right if you're nitpicking up and this is this is my approach which is not particularly reconnect if you're nitpicking if you have to you know figure out how to split the hair you probably want to take a step back and like you're probably you don't you don't want it do it if it's if it's hair-splitting to get you into trouble back off just do the thing as hair-splitting to it so that you can do it you don't know what you you said that you don't use you don't you know you know this is not reveal but that's exactly what the rabbi's did really yeah there are a binnacle prohibitions what is the function of a rabbinical prohibition to make you back off like you said right I always describe you like this i have this one's from one of my Roby's many years ago that this was going to tell prohibition and a rabbi rabbinical prohibition at our prohibition is like somebody who is tossing a crystal vars up and down and catching it on a stone floor right all it needs is to drop it once and your game is now over the rabbi's came along and they put down a nice thick carpet which means that as you've tossed this vars up and down into the air if you drop it so you know what there's a good chance you'll get a shock right but there's a good chance that it won't break and that's what the rabbi's are trying to do the rabbi's are trying to ensure that we don't transgress Torah prohibitions so they put a few layers of padding around it to make sure that we're going to step back and you're right a hundred percent I'll give you a classic example is a concept in shabbat called matzah Muktar is something here a pen is it ok to carry a pen on Shabbat in a place where you're allowed to carry right is it ok to carry a pen on Chabad according to the Torah it is because the prohibition is what not to write on Shabbat there's not probably carrying a pen on Shabbat a long caring the rabbi's this is something very logical right let's say what ask them what do you do with a pen right with it right if you write six days of the week you write with a pen so you're almost bound at some point on Shabbat if you're walking around with a pen in your pocket to forget and you'll whip it out and you write something and now what have you done transgress at our prohibition that's like breaking the vars so longer the rabbi said you know what we'll do don't don't even touch a pen on Shiva finished I what happens if somebody forgets they pick up the parent sure but many seven remember they put it down again so the transgression is a lot less fearsome right a lot less ferocious then the other side dropping the vars on the on the padded carpet that that's what the rabbi's are doing they're making their ensuring that we should be able to do this in as comfortable and as best were softer you're right not to stand there and to say hold on a second I do it like this so I do it like that and if I do like this is going to be okay right but if I if I move a millimeter in either direction that it's not going to be okay so anything like that the rabbi's come on say what do you want to put yourself in that kind of the situation for all those are some of the maintenance let's say are such that they're very mind you like that they require a lot of thought and detailed it it's no listen there's no doubt whatsoever right there really is no doubt whatsoever that the Rabbinical prohibitions are there that their detail their complex and the more you know so the more the easier it's going to become for you to do this the way that it needs to be done that's for sure but the function of what they're doing is to make sure ultimately to make sure that it's easier for us and not how it sounds paradoxical right that ultimately it's going to be easier for us to keep shabbat that it is if we don't have those rabina commences i'll give you i give me another example in many in many places when i was a kid growing up these things first came out they were plastic colors to put on your light switches let's say shabbat kodesh just so you know this is this is Fisher but I don't have these at home right the truth is that that is exactly the kind of thing the rabbis are saying right on six days in the week you walk into the room you flick the switch it's it's second nature you don't even think about it you just flick the switch and the light comes on what on Shabbat there's a concern that you're going to do that as well right if somebody's not tapped into the fact that it's Shabbat you just woken up your you know like you're a little a little bit a little bit not with it and you sort of like you know just switch on the light switch so somebody came up with this idea let's put little plastic covers they're like shields that go on top of the light switch in that way if I hit the light switch I'm not going to do anything cuz I'm just hitting this plastic thing and it's not touching the switch itself you