The Surprising Debate About the Torah's Very First Mitzvah - Rabbi Daniel Glatstein

The mitzvah of pur when I say what is the mitzvah in order to know what the mitzvah is you need to know what to do by l of anro everybody knows what to do you hold the l of anri the mitzvah of you know what to do you put on the titus you wear the you light the shabas candles obviously um if you haven't learned by now you also have to have kavana to be the mitzvah for so for example If let's say we learn to right now but you forget to have to the mitzvah of then at least you didn't speak lash for an hour but whether you get the mitzvah of the says no that's why right now is a good idea to have kavana we're having to the mitzvah the of you're listening to the sh you might as well get for it yeah now the does you'll you'll get but who wants you know when you're when you're on the line upstairs you want to get it's like if you go to the pizza store and the the guy you you give the guy I don't know when I was a kid a slice was a dollar now I don't know it's like $5 I don't know how much more so imagine you give him five bucks and there's a big bubble that takes up 90% of the slice so you say the guy I paid five bucks you call this pizza he says bedv It's pizza. So you don't want to go upstairs and you're going to say I want reward for and they don't give you the full reward and you're going to say that's reward. They're going to say you did the mitzvah. We're giving you said no I did I did I had to anyway we're going to talk about what is the mitzvah of purvu. So you say what exactly what are the choices here? I mean uh you to procreate then it requires the act of relations. So presumably that's the mitzvah. The mitzvah is the act of relations. [clears throat] Actually the Ramban has a very interesting on the Raman says something amazing which again not for general audience. The Raman says originally Adam and Kav were created do parts back to back. So then how would they procreate there? Obviously there was some way where they were able to transfer what needed to be transferred to create a child. Yeah. But that was complicated process. So Hashem said listen carefully. would be easier if I split them and then they would be opposite each other because that would facilitate okay that's the Raman the question is what is the mitzvah of what are the choices again presumably it would be the act of relations it would be the however the shagasar has an amazing question you know um I'm making a bar mitzvah coming and parasara. So for for many years whenever one of the boys got bar mitzvah I would give like part of the baritzah series. So I found a line I use it for all the all the boys. The the line is like this. This is great from Kyvki. Eliovi comes to every bris and the shagasar comes to every mitzvah. It's one of my favorite lines. Yeah. Elio Anovi comes to a bris and the shagasar comes to why? because you have to quote the shagasar at anyway here's the shagasar this is not bar mitzvah I'mra I'm just it's a nice line about the shagasar the shagasar lived from 1695 to 1785 and the shagasar is reputed to have reviewed shas >> reconation so otherwise >> 1,000 times 1,000 times and the shag wrote a parish called and he asked the following question. Ask the shagar. The garra says like this. What if somebody had uh children when they were goim? Somebody was a gentile and then they converted. Um so the rabbi said you know once you convert you can't bring your phone into the schul anymore. The guy said okay I'm going to convert. I'm going to convert. And the rabbi said, you know, from now on, you can't eat mazo for shalashudas. Once you're Jewish, you have to actually wash for shalashudas. He said, okay, I'm going to wash for shalash. So the thing is he had a boy and a girl and then he converted. So said that he fulfills pu even though, think about it, he didn't have any more children once he converted. But if he had children as a guy and then he converted says he gets the mitzvah here. Let me make it uh see if I can make it bigger. Um let me see if I could How do I do this? Make it a little bit bigger. Um okay. No, I don't know how to do says you get the mitzvah. Says you don't get the mitzvah says you're puru because you have children. Why don't Why don't I get the mitzvah? The guy converted. Does he have to go buy groceries? Yeah. Does he have to buy toys for his kids? Yeah. Do they keep him up at night? Yeah. Are they loud? Yeah. So, what what didn't he do? He brought kids into the world. He's the father of kids. Says, "No, they're not his children. He's not related to them. He the the rule is that when somebody converts, it's like they're born. He has no relation to his former relatives." So says, "You're mimit the mitzvah." Fine. Comes the shagasar. And the shagasari asked the following bum kasha. The garra talks about somebody who had bouts of insanity. Sometimes he's insane and sometimes he's normal, you know, like many people. Yeah. Sometimes he's mishuga and sometimes he's sane. So the garra says, "What if he ate the matzah when he was a mishuga and then he snapped out of it?" So the garra says, "You're not y because you did the mitzvah when you were you were not a badass and you you um did not have says and perish since at that moment you were a fool. Okay. So, says if you ate the mat when you're crazy and then you became normal, you don't get the mitzvah cuz you did the mitzvah as an normal that night. You have to eat again because the original eating doesn't count. In that case, why does Raban say that if somebody children when he was a and then he converted, he's mim the mitzvah, but he did the misa mitzvah as a are not in the mitzvah of so they were not they were not they're not are not mitsua in puru by the way. Do you know why? because it's a mitzvah that [snorts] was given to Adam and it was not repeated at hari any mitzvah said to the benak not repeated oni only Jews are and go so ask the shagisar if regarding matzah if you eat the matzah in a state of insanity and then you snap out of it you don't get the mitzvah and you have to eat the matzah again Then why if you father children as a go as an and you convert you should have to have the children again. Friends, clearly the shagasar learns the mitzvah puru is the bia is the act of relations because the shagasar is asking the same way if you ate matzah in a state of insanity you did the act as an so then when you snap out of it you're say likewise if you fathered the children as a gentile so you did the act of the bia when you're so when you become Jewish, you should have to father more children. And yet says you're in the mitzvah. That's the but one thing you see from the that shag understands that the mitzvah of ravu is the act of relations. Okay. And that would have been uh the simple way of understanding the mitzvah of puru. Bab 1801 to 1874 brother-in-law of the and the has a completely different take on the mitzvah of says you know like but the brings a different what if a person father children and Leoleno the children died you get the mitzvah you don't get the mitzvah you get the mitzvah I'm sorry you do not get the mitzvah what's the if you take a l of ank and then the l of ank blows up you got the mitzvah yeah but the l of blew up okay good it's a good thing I I shook it before it blew up what's if you lit the shabas candles and then they go out you get the mitzvah Yeah. Why? But they went out. Okay. It's a good thing I lit them before they went out. What's that? If somebody uh gives saddaka to ani and then the loes the money, you get the mitzvah. Yeah. But the lost the money. Okay. But it's good thing I gave it to him. But the is if somebody father children and the children die, you don't get the mitzvah. Pervu. If the mitzvah was the act of relations, I did the act of relations. So why does a person lose the mitzvah if the children don't survive says the says the from here we see the mitzvah is not like other mitzvah it's not like lul it's not like matzah lul and matzah have no duration once you do the act say here the mitzvah is not the relations is not the mitzvah the bia is a mitzvah what's the mitzvah having children being the father of children. And if the children die, you're not the father of children. The mitzvah is not the act of relations. The mitzvah is having the children. Pu is different than every other mitzvah. Every other mitzvah is an act. Take the eat the matzah, shake the lul, put on the fillin. The mitzvah is not the b. The mitzvah is being the father of children. Oh says in this would answer the says in that according to pasin like that if somebody had children when they were and they convert the mitzvah and the asks why you mim the mitzvah just like by matzah. If you ate matzah when you were in a state of insanity and you snap out of it you have to eat it again. So to if you had children as a go when you were in so shouldn't you have to father children again but according to what I've advanced in it's not a question at all matzah and lul as soon as you ate the matzah as soon as you took the lul you're mim the mitzvah therefore if you did that if you did the act when you were in a you got to do it again but the mitzvah of having children is that the children should be there. The mitzvah of having children is having the children. Being in a state that you could check off the box, I have children in this world. So when somebody fathered children as a gentile and then they converted, do they have children right now? Yes, they do. Is there somebody whining in their ear? Yes, there is. Do they have to drive carpel? Yeah. Yeah, but they produced it as an we don't care when they produced it. The production is a mitzvah. It's not the mitzvah. The production of the children is not the mitzvah. It's a mitzvah. The mitzvah is having them is having them. And they should be attributed to you. Well, you have them >> anymore. >> What? Oh, good. That's opinion. Would say they're not related to you. But says they're still your child. You you are the one you are their biological father. Right? If we took if we did a DNA test, are you the one responsible that they came into? In other words, are these children attributable biologically to you? Yes. So then you're in the mitzvah. I but you produce them at a time. The production is not the mitzvah. The mitzvah is being their father. Says that's not called your father. Says we don't have to call it the father as long as you're biologically the father. Now says the the you know it's analogous to what if somebody made matzah as a He baked the matzah as a with the and then he converted their opinions. you could fulfill the mitzvah. Why? Because I'm eating it as a yid. I only baked it as a guy. The baking of the mat is having children is like baking matzah, says. Having the children is like putting them in the oven. I put them in the oven. I press 450. The be is putting them in the oven and pressing 450. Then once you take them out of the oven and now you have them at your table, that's the mitzvah. Okay. And therefore your say the mitzvah and therefore the mitzvah is the proof is that if the shag was right that the mitzvah was the bia then why if they die do you lose the mitzvah. Nobody would say if your lulaf died you lost the mitzvah. It's irrelevant that the lulv died. What nobody would say that if after you put on fill and they became pustle you lose the mitzvah. you put them on when it's kosher. Therefore, the fact that say the fact that the garra says that if the children die, you get the mitzvah, that means the mitzvah is having them. And once they die, you no longer have them. The mitzvah is not producing them. Okay, that's how the answers the kasha of the shagasari comes along and Feinstein disagrees with the understanding of puro and actually this is rather amazing. He says that the understanding of Revu is not logical. You know why it's not logical? God can only command you to do something that's in your control. He can't command you to do something that's not in your control. We know the mitzvah puru is a boy and a girl. We pass like a boy and a girl. According to the what's the puru being the father of a boy and a girl what that how could God command a human being be the father of a boy and a girl some people you know they have their first kid is a boy their second kid is a boy their third kid is a boy their fourth kid is a boy their fifth kid and they're not stopping because they were not ma in the midst of Peruv they literally have 11 boys they're not I you know they they're not capable of producing a nava they can't do it for whatever reason. I don't know what it is. They drink too much orange juice or something. There there's some there's some couples, you know, they just produce boys. Some couples they just produce girls. What? So theam is telling them you you have to produce a girl. You have to produce a boy. It's not up to them. They do their part and the rest is up to the shay. So says it's not that to define the mitzvah as being the father of a boy and a girl because it's not within a person's control to be the father of a boy and a girl. Raosha therefore says the mitzvah of puru is the attempt is the act of beia that's the only thing that's within human capacity the act now still but the act doesn't do anything until 9 months later a baby's born the baby being born is not the mitzvah when after you do what you have to do a boy is born and a girl is born at that point you're exempt from the act of in other words to fulfill the mitzvah the mitzvah is like the shagar says the mitzvah says is the by I and says you know how you know what the proof is the mitzvah is the bia um the proof is tois and babas Take a look at number 10. Okay, take a look at number 10. Do you remember the I call him the most interesting man in the world? Who's the most interesting guy in the world? The most interesting guy in the world is the you know he it's hard to quantify what exactly is this guy. He's a soar says that the Misha says he holds you force the master and you make him free. You know why? because he can't marry anybody. He can't marry a basin because he's half anes he can't marry a because he's half free. So we force the master to free him completely. Ask why do we force the master to free him? Let him live with a a Jewish girl. I he's an a let the mitzvah rev that rides on his half of being free push off the isser of his half living with a Jewish girl says what do we need to free him for? let him just live with a regular Jewish girl and we'll say okay answers tois no there's no here cuz at the time that he's mim the he was already violating the ra the lav when is a person violate the ofadesh of living with a gentile mish har is The beginning of is the mashik is when they the when they come into contact however the mitzvah ravu you're not mim until the gy until a complete act of bia is done says you see clearly from tyus the mitzvah of puv is not having children it's not Being the father of a child, the mitzah puruvu is a complete act of bia. A by that's capable of producing a child. Now we it may or may not produce a child. Maybe it will successfully and then it will produce a boy and then maybe the next time will also produce a boy. But the the mitzvah that is within human capacity to perform is not being the father of a child. It's the full act of byur as says explicitly the puru is the complete act of bia because you can't say that the mitzvah is having a child. It's not within the capacity of a human being to have a child. That's up to God. The mitzvah is the garb. I the brought two proofs against this. Proof number one was the gumar and yamas. The garam says that according to if you had children as a guy then you're the mitzvah. But if the mitzvah is the bia you did the bamura as an says ifus is correct that the mitzvah is a gamar then the mitzvah is performed at a time that you're not a mitzvah says an amazing the mitzvah purvu is a bumur and okay and at what point is a person exempt from the mitzvah. One becomes exempt in the mitzvah if they have a boy and a girl. The mitzvah is not having a boy and a girl. Having a boy and a girl exempts you from having to continue to perform the mitzvah. The learns the mitzvah approves having of the boy and the girl. She says that's not logical. It's not within human capacity. Human capacity could only do an act the results are up to the shay. So says why is it that if somebody produced a child when they were a guy why is it their m the puru? The answer is because they no longer have an obligation to fulfill the mitzvah. Why? because they have a boy and a girl says that's the reason why if their children die they don't get the mitzvah. Why? Because now they no longer they lose their exemption. So long as the children were alive they were exempt from the mitzvah. If the children do not survived they lose the exemption and now they're in a state where they are not exempt anymore. Now they have they have an obligation again. Now it comes out so it comes out according to Misha something very interesting that when the garama says that if somebody produce a child as a and they convert they're the mitzvah according to they don't actually get reward for the mitzvah it's just they don't have an obligation to to fulfill the mitzvah according to they actually fulfilled the mitzvah. You see the difference? According to Mosa, if they had a a child as a a if they had children as a according to Mosa, they're now exempt from the mitzvah, but they don't get for the mitzvah. According to the person is the father of a boy and a girl. He gets rewarded for the mitzvah. So says Mosha his interpretation of is actually in the Mishna because the Mishna doesn't say how many children is a person obligated to produce. It says you should not nullify. You should not cease from puria verbia unless you have children. Meaning having children is not the fulfillment. Having children exempts you from further attempts. So we have a basic how do you define the mitzvah the shagarinstein learned the mitzvah is the act of bah it's just that that act must be performed until you're exempt and when are you exempt when you have a boy and a girl therefore the Mishna says at what point therefore the mission says don't be mato from puru until you have a boy and a girl that's says that if you had a children as a and now you convert so you're exempt from the mitzvah and if the children die you're not exempt from the mitzvah says no the mitzvah learns the mitzvah puru is being the father of a child brings a straight up from that the mitzvah of purvu is the gamaria I want to bring to your attention some other uh interesting points regarding this mitzvah. The uh we know that only men are in Peru. A woman is not in the mitzvah of Peru. Thema says interesting reason the there's a rule that means Hashem is not coming to bust your chops doesn't ask of a person something that's painful or extreme extremely difficult. Therefore because it's a difficult process for a woman. This is not a command Hashem gave a woman but it's a command Hashem gave a guy even though you know in the labor and delivery room usually the guy is the one hyperventilating and the woman is fine you know and afterwards the they ask how was it the guy says it was really rough you know you know but that's only because uh you know it was >> ask a question >> yeah go for it >> if you a boy and a No. So why do all people have a lot of children? >> Ah, good question. Because there are two mitzvah. One mitzvah is puru and that mitzvah is a boy and a girl. And then there's another mitzvah. The world was not created to be empty to be. It was created to be populated. The greatest thing you could do in this world is bring more children into the world. It makes Hashem very happy. The more children you have, the happier you make. >> Yeah. Because he needs people to >> Yes. And also Raba Raba, I tell you what I heard from Rabbi Victor Miller. you know in the beginning. >> So how come how come they come to that you don't know the guy but they have a beautiful woman >> okay I want to >> okay one second that's uh I'm not getting into that topic today but regarding uh the mitzvah Puru the Gmani says like this the vama says why does the juxtapose pur ravu to indicate that those who do not engage in purvu it's like murder why the garra says something amazing the garraar says that by not engaging in you cause the to leave the Jewish people it says When you have children, the has a place to dwell. If you don't have children, where do you want the to live? You think theina lives on? You think if you build a nice house in the five towns or in Flatbush or in Queens, God lives in the house. God doesn't live in houses. He lives on Jews. He lives on Jews who fear him. So the garra says that if you don't engage in purvu you cause god to leave the world. So I once heard from a victor miller in the beginning of boratious it says the world was astonishingly empty when darkness and the spirit of god hovered over the waters. So of miller asked why does the spirit of god need to hover over the waters? Why can't it land on the water? There are many planes that could land on water. If a plane could land on water why can't go land on water? The answer is God doesn't live on water. He only lives on Yidden. He lives on Jews and there are no Jews in the world. There are no people. So, by the way, the mitzvah of a woman does have here's another interesting uh uh understanding of the mitzvah of Purvu and the rad. The rad says Peru is having the children. Ravu is raising the children. So for example, if you feed your kids breakfast, you're the mitzvah. If you do homework with them, you're in the mitzvah. You teach them some manners, you revu. Peru is having the children. Ravu is raising them. In the safer he brings Peru is raising them physically and ravu is referring to the mitzvah of which by the way according to most the mitzvah of is only on the father not on the mother even though the mother ends up doing it but the mitzah of is mitzah on the father specifically which might be another reason why the mitz of purvu is only on the father. Now here there's another aspect of the says on the words there should not be among you one who is barren or infertile. The says that one should be fertile in matters of says every day you want to expand and increase to procreate in spiritually. The same way you need to procreate physically, you need to procreate spiritually. Your mind cannot be static without producing novel ideas, new ideas. Like it says in Perov, those who don't increase their knowledge will be wiped away. Don't just learn what you learned yesterday. You want to continue to learn new things. You always need to enter the base mish with a if you don't try to constantly add then you become like a dried out piece of wood. So the same way Hashem says says something amazing. He says the same way Hashem recreates the world there's no day that doesn't have a novelty that wasn't in the day before. The same way it's so too a person should learn something new every day that they didn't know the day before. By the way, it's human nature to want to learn new material and to want to uh create new Torah ideas. Now, the way the makes us expend that human need is that he constantly draws us to follow the news. What's new? What's new? So if a person um expends his his drive for newness on the news then he remains like a dry piece of wood because really in there is no news. Most of it is made up. Whatever is not made up is completely fabricated. Whatever is not completely fabricated is just invented. And whatever is not invented is recycled from yesterday. And when they run out of yesterday, they'll report something that happened a year and a half ago. Sometimes you see, oh, this unbelievable thing happened. And then you see, oh, I think I saw that happened. Yeah, it did. It happened like 6 months ago. But they don't have anything new to report. Human nature is a drive for newness. Newness and Tyra, newness and Tyra, creativity. And the same way Hashem recreates the world daily, one should every day try to expand their knowledge of Tyra, learn new material, learn new ideas. Actually in the on the he says you want to be vera to create novel ideas. actually regarding the suga of Benazi where the Gmorra says in that someone who doesn't engage in purvu it's like and they told Benazi that you're cuz you never got married said what should I do so in his explains What did Benaz mean? Says the what Benaz was saying is I'm not able to fulfill the mitzvah physically but I'm able to fulfill the mitzvah by teaching others and my Torah creativity. That was the production. That was the prov that's how he was. Actually there's a very nice three times we have the words we have we have and we have the the says this is a that the mitzvah of was not repeated from therefore it was only said to not to bak remember I said in the beginning of this year any mitzvah that was said to Ben and not repeated at is only incumbent upon Jews and not Ben. So the way we understand the Mess when when did that kick in? When was that binding? from. And at that time the ceased the mitzvah of Puru is considered um from one of the most important mitzvah in the Tory as it is the very first mitzvah in the Tory. What that mitzvah is by the way I want to come back to the lumbus for a moment. The shagari says says it's the bamura and says it's having children. It comes out a very interesting as my brother-in-law Shiman Pinter the uh Kel of the Freehold pointed out there's a very interesting between and the and that is what's better let's say a person has is it better to have 10 boys and then finally when you're 99 years old have a girl or is it better to have a boy and a girl right away. What's better off? Is it better to have the boy and the girl right away or is it better to not until when you're already 119 years old and you're already in an old age home in a wheelchair, that's when you have you're a girl. So the would be if the mitzvah is the act of by. So every time the bumura is performed that's a mitzah da purau and you're exempt once you have a boy and a girl according to the longer it takes to fulfill the mitzvah the greater the mitzvah is cuz you've done the act multiple times many times each time is a mitza and you were never exempt until finally in the end you had a boy and a girl according to the mitza is being the father of a boy and a girl. So you're better off getting married at 13. At 14 maybe you already have a boy and a girl and then for the ne next 106 years you're being the mitzvah of being the father of a boy and a girl. That's that would be a interestingly in the I would add another is is if somebody had a boy and a girl when they were go and then they converted do do they get reward for the mitzvah according to they don't get reward they didn't actually fulfill the mitzvah they're are just exempt from the mitzvah and according to They are fulfilling the mitzvah being the father of a boy and a girl. It's a very interesting between how do you quantify the mitzvah of puvu. Okay. Wishing everyone a wonderful day. May stay tuned. Uh we have this year the series on the malb the all para malbam series. Very beautiful material. Also, we're going to try for another series on the Ramban all para. So, you could uh follow that on Torah anytime or other platforms. Have a good day everyone. You want to say something? >> Yeah. Just wondering, let's say somebody has a boy and they died, but he has grandchildren. So I believe then they they I believe they um they in other words there they they continue to be exempt. In other words, they did get the mitzvah. >> Yeah. So those grandchildren so to speak them. >> Yes. >> Yes. Then help the grand if he couldn't. >> No, no, no. But >> no, he goes to Ghana then. >> How does he want to try? When you look forward to where his children mean that