When Bread Is No Longer Hamotzi - Rabbi Yakov Zev Smith

Diamond is killing. We have spons. Hashem shame agent like to welcome everyone to today's sh from when bread is no longer wolfish at 7188518651 email.com Smith >> someone [clears throat] recently he's traveling and It's going to be hard for him to wash and bench and he wants to have a a normal breakfast. is there any way to have a bread that's really qualified to be a and he's wondering about let's say he suggested maybe French toast is any way to make French toast or something like that that would be so the question was about taco what's the bra on French toast is it always and then once we looked into that there's the question about someone asked they heard that it could we have to wash on that really surprising to him. And we'll try to talk about the newest shilus of um garlic nuts and mela toast and bagel chips and we'll soon see others but the common denominator for this morning is that it's a bread the officially it's a bread or it's a matzah. When does a bread or a matzah lose its in other words the assumption is that bread and matzah of course is a when does that change when you what when you you do something to it when does the go from [snorts] so let me give you a little more gishmak a little more clarity just a few weeks ago to talk about the sh on the brah on bagels and actually if someone would only cook a bagel dough he would never bake it the brah would be a Why? Because the alif of hami is baking. Baking makes something hami. So there we see something interesting that it never became bread because you didn't bake it, you cooked it. Today we're going to talk about the opposite chil. when it was made into bread. When it was made into a matzah, when does a bread or matzah lose a in other words was bread? Matzah bri was matzah and French toast was bread. Is that is this is this process that you did enough to change his bra? So first we have to realize that these type of shalas should be not be taken lightly. I mean those childs should be taken lightly. But the this one has four almost every time. For example, if you make a you really supposed to make you decided to make a mazinus. So it's not even because some po if gave a of making on bread. So anything less than that even though is like but if you're supposed to make a is not as good as a but good enough but we're not let's say let's say it's supposed to be a and you make a oh now you make too big of a and again many hold you're not you can't make a a on a shackle So how do you make onus? So here also some that has a potential again. So number one we have the number two if you're supposed to make a and you make let's say on on French toast or matz so obviously you're not going to wash until because you're making but really supposed to be a you have to wash. and you're eating. Third and most severe is if it's supposed to be a and you make a noise. So you're obviously not going to bench on on a you make and [laughter] of three. The fourth the fourth which is very common. Let's say you decide to make a miso on matz and it really is supposed to be a mitzy or French toast. So what are you going to do after you make a misinus on your on your French f French toast or matzab? You're going to have French fries. You're going to make an adama. You're going to have a drink. You're going to make a shackle. Those brahas were unnecessary. You should have made a and only and ped everything. You decided to make a mazist. Mistake number one. Then you're making other braas. So it's again a very serious sha. So let's think in let's think about you take a piece of bread or matzah and you make breadcrumbs or matzah meal. Now I want to say this once and for all we live in a world of mash. You buy breadcrumbs. It's a very nice product the flavored breadcrumbs in fact but it's not doesn't come from bread. It's not breadcrumbs. It is speciallymade type of topping which is very good and I'm not you know but it's not breadcrumb it doesn't come from bread. So breadcrumbs typically commercially made breadcrumbs are a bur suffic I'm talking about real McCoy breadrumbs or matzah male typically is matzah that's ground up it's the meal of matzah male is hear this word it's like matzah it's like matzah flour so let's talk about real breadcrumbs and real matzah mail they came from regular bread why should I think that the braha changed just because you ground Oh, but wait a second. Maybe the we just like if you take a piece of corn corn and you grind and you make it into corn flour, corn flour is a shackle. If you make cornbread or corn muffins from pure corn meal, corn flour, the bra is a shackle because you totally transformed it when you made it into a powder. Now I should mention that most almost all commercial um corn muffins are miso because they add a significant amount of floury just a but if you make corn from corn flour you make corn muffins or cornbread pure corn it's a shakari so maybe that would be a reason that once you made it into a matzale and then you made it into into canal So it's not a because it's not true because it's a very simple. When you take a a fruit or vegetable supposed to eat it as it is and you made it, you pulverize it. You pured it. You made it into a powder like corn flour, you ruined it. That's not the regular use of a of a vegetable or fruit. So the braha goes down. But raise aella. When you take a kernel of wheat and you roast it and eat it as it is, what's the when you made it into a flour, [clears throat] you can either make a or what's that? Because flour is unique that the more you prepare it, the better it becomes. You flour is supposed to be made into a powder and then you can make fina and you can make lux and you can make cake and you can make bread, you can make matzah. So make it into a powder. elevates it, doesn't emote it. And that's why probably the in he says the when something is and his example is crumbs, breadcrumbs when something was bread and you you totally transformed it, it doesn't change because it's Now his again his now the truth is the rajba does not spell out that you made it into a a a matzah meal flower maybe he's talking about breadcrumbs so if you that could be but you look in the simmon is the tour says explicitly if it's if if breadcrumbs are not cooked or baked we'll soon see about about the baked pot but if it's it's it's if it's not cooked It's even though it's it's no longer resembles bread. You took matzah made the matz. So the truth is pikamat is brown from the matzah. So you could tell but if you take regular you know kamata and make it into a powder you can't tell. We can't tell what it is. So that's what the Torah says. even though it no longer resembles bread or matzah the spells it out even further and he says you take a a one single bit a speck of bread you make a and follows this and Mr. says I feel you take a little speck of matz barely could see it. You have to make a why because nothing changed. So let's get practical. If someone's on a very strict diet and he he goes to work or yeshiva and he takes along a snack one breadcrumb. So he would have to wash even though says you don't wash but he quotes days that you should wash no okay washing is optional seems so you make you do wash you make and no so here we have this established and again our is three and this is test and one works with the other bread or matzah If it was changed totally into a powder puree, the braha is still again it's different than corn or other fruits and vegetables because by wheat products the process is grinding it and using it. So now the question is where do we go from here? So what does change matzah or bread if was so here we come today again to just about two lines of of the and that's which is probably the for today and basically the says which we're going to touch as crumbs pieces of bread and don't forget crumbs is crumbs anything less than a kazayas has of crumbs So here's what Makaba says. He says it with puts it very beautifully. Now if you cook bread or breadcrumbs. So Maba says it depends. If there's a kazayas, you cooked a a piece of bread, even if it was cooked and there's no longer, but if there's a kazas remaining, a kazas of bread never loses its status as bread. And as the says, Even the mime. So rule number one as clear as day is bread or matzah that's still a even though you cooked it. You make now what what's said cooking should make it is very positing factor of bread baking. If you cook something luxen or you cook fina, it's never. So here the is saying if you take a bread and you cooked it, maybe that changed it because you took a a cooked and you baked you took a took a bake out and you cooked it. But if there's a kazayas remaining, nothing changes. The same the same says if there's no and you cooked it this is important even though it has to it has it has but less than a that's cooked the becomes what's the between a kaz and less so I didn't find the first could be it's because a kazayas a bread has very much kashas first of all on a kazayas you have to bench You know, even if there's no sphere, but you have to bench. Number two, you have to wash with at least without a very much in. So here is the mish in in one line. Bread that's cooked might lose its bra because cooking is the opposite of bread. So here's the line. Bread that's cooked and is a kazayas is automatically. Nothing to talk about. Cooked less than a kazayas automatically a mazinus. Even if it has theresa. So bread that's cooked and is a kazayas even noises hama is ai kazayas is a done deal less than kazayas that's cooked is an mus even if there's dama [clears throat] now the misha as we'll soon see adds one more factor and that is how about if it wasn't cooked but it was changed and has noa we'll soon see that's also a factor let's talk number one cooked bread might lose its braha and depends on size. So we have two factors cooked and size and also theres is lacking that's also a reason that it becomes now we have enough time to discuss the whole so let's start with a says that what does it mean has to have what does mean is one example if you take bread and put it and soak it in water for long enough the water starts to become white. So why is the water whitening? Obviously the bread is changing its whole. So they're soaking bread and the water turns white. That's the bread no longer has sapas and gives an illustration. He says one of the bal one of the we met he was uh he had a he had he had a shar and he had to give a share. Now obviously his time was very limited. The half a minute was a lot of time in his life and he push didn't have the time from davening to gashir to have a regular breakfast. I guess he wanted to have some of the school of pakas. So how do you have pashakas without washing and benching? Because he didn't have the time to wash and bench. So he used to take breadcrumbs the night before, soak it in water and then the next morning, I don't know if he drank the water, whatever it was, but he had that that those breadcrumbs that was soaked in water and he made a misinus and alya because it was soaked overnight, it lost its teresa. Now what do we see something very very important when something lost its hama? It's no longer well maybe the reason why it's because since he soaked it is only because takes away the right wrong he soaked it the night before and he ate the next morning he didn't sleep for like they say two bagels he didn't sleep 24 hours when is only 24 hours. So here we have one of the balis that made the first legitimate mazinist bread maz crumbs but it was legitimate and the would be a mazinus and al and what's the because it's lacking and this is but we pass like that and loses That would be a maz I for the same money why don't you soak it in water a big piece and eat like a mench there it is we said be fair before when somebody even if you cooked it if you soaked it now I just want to make a point has to be mentioned this that still appreciates washing and benching we live in a da no one has time to wash and bench there's an aversion to wash and bench And I don't know what's you know it's a you wash you bench it's a and I believe if you bench and you say if you have parents I think it's keep it well how do I know that because the says if the makes for someone you say you have a because you're giving you're you're reinforcing the so if you give your parent a isn't that of I didn't find it but Mustavra but anyhow washing and benching should be done unless you're a super master like mitz fine but but the aversion to wash and bench I'm not sure why where it comes from but it has to be stopped it's a to wash and bench but didn't have an alternative so he shouldn't be oppressed see he also didn't want to wash and bench he couldn't do it he couldn't do it okay so this is simple so we have se test regarding matzrumbrs breadcrumbs is a is a unless changed is cooking and then is noises less than the okay now how about French toast so those not familiar you take a piece of bread you dip it in eggs whatever and you fry it what is regular French toast so the misa this is simple if the piece of French toast is a kazayas or more then forget about the whole your whole story. It's ana kazayas never loses. Now a kazayas is not so big. A kazayas is the way the p say if you don't hold of the ishuru I'm changing a quarter of a slice of rye bread. A kazay a kabay is a half slice of rye bread. It's a again a kazayas is a kibbea. So take try to visualize a chicken's egg. Half of that is a kazayas. A kabaya is no big no big fish. A kabaya an egg picture an egg that's a kabaya. So again a good approximation a quarter slice of rye bread the center slice not a two pound and not one pound rye is a is a kazay. So if you make French toast out of anything more than a quarter of a slice of bread it's now the question is let's say you make it on less than a kaz of bread. So here the question is how are you making it? If you deep fry it that means you put the piece of French into boiling oil. So we mentioned once as Alman says it in in the shab is that mali mali bish if you cooked it in deep fry means you're cooking it in oil like in French fries it's cooked in the oil itself. So that's bish. So that would be a legitimate maz again has to be small. You deep fry it. So you you cooked bread. No theab says in cooked bread less than a kazay even if it has to be. So that again would be a legitimate someone has to travel. He wants to take has bread but he can't wash and bench there's no water available. Whatever it is, that would be a legitimate m. Again, I'm not a cook, but I don't know if it's going to work. Maybe you put the bread with with with um with the with the egg topping and deep fry it. Maybe it won't come out good. I don't know. But more often than not, we don't deep fry it. You fry it. So now the question is, what is the status of a fried object, a fried item? So and says if you fry something with very little oil just it shouldn't burn fact today they have a spray you don't have to use oil [clears throat] but the oil is just there it shouldn't burn so the Ramos says that's not considered bishial for sure so little oil that's considered a or or because it is only the medium of heat you're not cooking anything so the says that mashk is not considered a mashkid respect. So if you put very little oil or you use a spray and you fried your [clears throat] the French toast even if it's a half a gazaya less than half a gazayas that would be like re-baking it but it's not cooking. How about if it's it's what was called pan fried. So pan fried means that you use more oil than you really need. it shouldn't burn but people do especially you know the young children they like the taste of oil and they're not worried about cholesterol so they put in a lot of oil and it's you know it's splattering and it's comes out more oil than than the eggs but the that's what's called pan fried more oil and says that this is and he says we have to treat pan fried like a suffic bishel and suffic of just baking because it's not enough oil. So that's why if you again if you deep fry a French toast less than a kazai it's taka legitimate maz if you pan fry it or certainly if you stam fry without with very little oil it's a regular now this is why it's not very practical but I would mention has two places it's important to mention is in the back of a saint the quote and he wrote it down agreed to what was written. That's why it's legitimate. And also in the say from Alman's nephew, you also heard it from Alman that if you want to make a a French toast mush that should be a leg a legitimate mazois and you can't deep fry it, the is take a piece of bread less than a gazayas, cook it in water for just about a moment. The cooking is the shem bread that we said everybody agrees. Then take it out. If you want, you could squeeze out the water and then you could make it any recipe you like because once you reduce that less than a kazai is by cooking it is then you can make regular French toast and take it on your trip and make a maz and but more than this this particular application it's the sight of it when you legitimately cook something. We'll soon see what that means. It loses it. So leisa these are the foratak you make less than a kazay less than a quarter of a slice of bread you could you could either deep fry it or certainly if you put it in water and then you fry it matzah bry used to be even for those that don't eat katy pes it was after you put all the dishes and it was a stickle of a incentive to work hard you make matzabri now those that make it on pes whatever it is matzah basically is a matzah that's that's corrupt made in small pieces and you add eggs and you make a food out of it. It used to be like after pay after you clean up it was like a you look forward to that today there was something that misplaced this very nice school this nice um attraction it's called tanarishian pizza so that took over for the um for the matzabra but anyhow lisa matzabra used to be you know something of a of a delicacy but anyhow the question is what brah do you make on matzra so this is mamish mishya if you make the piece of matzah more than more than a kazay nothing to talk about no matter what you do if it's less than kaz pieces. So now the sha is maybe that's a mazitis but the way the mish says if you pan fry it it's is a suff that's not an it's a big is and I don't know if it's even sh to use very little oil but very little oil is even more less of a shik so this is why the say that basically the mats has less than even if it's more more has even more pit it would Now here again said if you want to have a real mazinist matri [clears throat] the ais make it into pieces less than a gaz and cook it. That's right and themes [clears throat] people that make matsubri properly they don't just crumble it and and they fry it. You typically soak it in water until it gets softer should be more workable. No, if you if you're soaking in water for the same money, put water in a pot and cook the matzah for a moment and then you have a v a [clears throat] so this is why it is sh to make matzah again it involves the stage of cooking cooking makes it a no sh because it's bread now the was asked about matzab which is matzab he says I know what the sophag is it's totally in the in what we learned see if you but [snorts] then he says maybe it's another another reason to be maybe even if you pan fry it maybe you can make him m says it's a suffic and we don't play around with [clears throat] because there is a and that's the meaning of that matzah regular matzah is mus it's only on p they make because that's the of the but regular matzah for is misin so maybe we'll make it like axum first of all maybe it's mus matzah even a big piece and even if not pan fried is a suffic then maybe it is bishop so then it concludes but I'm afraid to say this and I know [clears throat] exactly why because use matzah as a bread but it's very commonly used as a bread now that you're deciding you're considering matzah like a snack Oh, that's good for today. And what about you make make you're not consistent. So basically the and I saw in the safe 108 he quotes that you don't use that as a maz because we don't make a maz unless you become a but it's not a but I did see the infat and he says the way to do it that we that we'll soon see that is and then he says but Maybe also that mat is only is not is okay. So said it but for us it's hard to take that the approach then we are implying that we hold it it's you can use it for now in he calls it but it's also what we call and he says matri has a different it lost its soay and lost that would be a good Now all the can wonder is this that we have if you make matzah it's does that you could see it it's you could see the matzah I saw the tak says I don't understand it he says I heard from older people that they used to make matzah something like from matzah mail the matzah bri was matzah mail if that's the case okay but if our matzah is noticeable even though it's broke into smaller pieces is it does have but as we said matzra should be treated as a hamoi unless you soak you cooked the piece of bread for a moment or more and it made it and then you made it from a mazist to a better mist a little of a more challenging issue is kalakugal was always very common because it was leftover kala and uh what do you do with it I say for today it's it's not so popular the bak never heard of kalugul for two reasons. Number one, today if you don't have leftover bread, what do you do with it? Throw it out. Or today we have so many dips, there's no leftover. Whatever the case is, it's becoming sort of a a, you know, ancient meaning, but was taking all the old bread and [clears throat] processing. We'll soon see how. And you made it into a kala. So what does that mean processing? So basically you took the kala soaked it in water and then you squeezed out the water and you made a sort of a dough we'll call it a dough and you baked it and it was something like a lux I mean of course different but the same idea it was a baked kala called a kala dough that was sort of refurbished the bread was soaked squeeze the water out and you made it into a kala cook so if you soaked long enough pieces of the small pieces of the kala and or if you cooked small pieces of the kala. So then it was ice, it's ice bread and then you squeezed it out and you made a dough. But here's the problem because once you put it together as a dough and you baked it that might recreate it as a mui and Mr. The Buraka says if you take the kala you you soak it in water and then you add eggs whatever and you put in the oven. Obviously when you're re-baking it you're you like you're taking non you're taking little crumbs and making it into into bread. And this is the shita of the the saying that if it has a toy and typically does sound like that it has a if it is baked it should be a and back to points to the that says in the end that when you rebake a a new dough it's like it's the first time and it becomes However, very often the is heavily flavored. You add um sugar, cinnamon, raisins or or anything that gives it a heavy flavor. So that's like a cake. The big the best mush I think that really highlights the point. Cockish cake has the exact same dough like kala and yet it's a mis even [clears throat] the end piece. Why? because it was made as a sweet food as a snack. It's not a bread. You don't eat tuna fish with with kishk. So if you make the kalugul as a lux type of thing, it for that reason the flavoring makes it. So then even though it has a it's like a like a dough a dough is still if you made it into it's a so this the all the Mr. actually says it. He says, "But if if you bake the unless then it becomes like a and the can say that that this would would be no different than a regular cake that is basically a real ammoi. But if you made it as a nonbred food, the ingredients significantly changes its identity. And say that in a of the troops in the back of if you make a regular that you add shemen and eggs and and or juice that would be a rabbi was a little weary of it because it comes from bread. So he says the best at would be this to soak the bread not just in water soak it in may peris in juice. So when you do that it really gives a major change to the identity of the bread and then you bake it it becomes a bina because of the flavoring of it. What I found gishmak the p can discuss I don't think you see this today but some people made the same kala dough. They took small piece of kala, soaked it in water, made it into a we'll call it a dough and didn't bake it. They put it into the kishka as a kishka. They put it into the chunk as a kishka and then they wrapped it up. So instead of making a dough and then baking it and making it a kalakul, they took that same recreated dough put it in aluminum foil put into into the chant and that was their kishka. What's with that? So that has a because if it was less than a kazay and that was soaked. So really it should be no if you bake it. So you create it as a but this quote kishka was not baked. It was cooked. It was cooked with the heat with with the moisture of the chalant that you submerge it and it cooks. So this type of situation where you cooked the quote unquote as a kishk that would be a so that's basically is should be typically if it's baked it's it's a unless you do something making in the in the dough in the in the flavoring of the dough and if it's only if it's cooked so that would stay a mus now the next questions is the beautiful part of the suga is using matzah or kala crumbs. Again, we're talking about real matzah crumbs and real kala crumbs not the breadcrumbs. So as we said and this is that when something was made into a breadcrumb we saw the rajbah we saw test that is a now someone asked me that he has now typically on shabas is very common says you're supposed to eat the crumbs so but there's no shil because you washed anyhow the question is he has all these leftover crumbs from Shabas and now it's Sunday night he's not washing and he he didn't want to throw it out this about maybe tashkas why should he throw it out so he has a good idea he's having hot soup hot hot hot chicken soup Sunday night leftovers from shabas he'll put the crumbs into the soup what he make on those crumbs so he thought well once you cook crumbs less than a kazay then automatically becomes a misin but I'm making a mistake Mr. spells it out that if something is cooked, it becomes it has to be cooked cooking is only or if you took it off the fire but it's still hot enough. So has the capacity of cooking even. So when he say in the in the it's cooked, it means cooked either is still very hot. A bowl of soup is a cliche. If you're a real barasel, you'll probably get a cle because they put it into the serving bowl and then a ladle and then you get to your bowl. So that's a cle. But there's no way you could get it soup in a bowl that's not a cliche. And that's why Mr. says does not have the so it's regular crumbs is and that those breadcrumbs should be now the poison not discussed I'm not sure why but let's say taka put it into your hot bowl of soup is a cliche but now after you did that the the breadcrumbs are very heavily flavored from a chicken soup so is that enough to make it oy because now it has that distinct flavor of the soup no one says this. I'm not sure why, but it would make sense that if you took take at the breadcrumbs before you eat it, it's like it would be like a that's very heavily flavored. If I'm wrong, please correct me, but I think that's what makes sense. But that would be a reason why if again is totally changed. Now, if you consider it that it's like heavily flavored, that that again that might be a again a factor to make it a miso, but again, no one says it. I'm not sure why. Someone asked me this and I kid you not. He wants to know what braha do you make on chopped liver on Sunday night. I says the same braha like Monday night. So he said no no my house is different. Why? Because we have liver by chopped liver by the table shabuda and the children they they unc. But they take the they dip it into the liver and they take out the liver. He says he told me he says it's a secret this crumbs in the liver. Okay. So lama misa he'd probably right in the that there's crumbs there and those crumbs are not like significantly changed like in a hot soup but we have a end of says that even though it's automatically a it's only if is there either for taste or if you add flour to a clear chicken soup to give it a to give it a little more texture to make it a little thicken it to taste The on the soup is not a but you're only putting the flour there to thicken it not to give it taste or so it's like that type of flour is ble that's why on licorice even though this 30% flour but the flour was there the dab to hold it together it's a shahak that's why on gapilta fish and and meatballs although there is some zenus added it's only to hold it together to give body. So the miser liver on Sunday night is not. So even though it's a breadcrumb that should be a in theory but not in practice it's not there. Now the next question is fascinating because you live and learn who would think of this but the question is when you make what is it? Now kak again comes from ground matzah mail and I was told by a muma that you the mat the kak have a certain texture only because it's matzah. If you take flour and try to create your own it won't be the same. The matzah sticks together. He told me a whole science of it. He's a professional cook. But the end of the day the matzah matzah matzah ball soup the goam call it because it has a certain taste that it's matzah that's ground. So I'm talking about real matzah that was made into so here's the question this is because once you had once matzah was a crumb it should be a perfect because a crumb remains a crumb. Now I want to make a point. I could have to have to mention this. The Mishkin in in the chuva simal and the mash the plat in in the chuva beautiful chuva simal they both say that really you look at the the the rajba he doesn't say that matzah flour or bread flour is still a he says a breadcrumb. They both are on their own that if you made it into a powder that is so it lost. So that might be somewhat of a relief when you're dealing with real ground matzah. But what should I tell you? The tur says the rav says it says it. So he could argue on whoever he wants but we have the and the rav both that say even if it's a powder it's totally unrecognizable. Bread is bread. So now we're back to our problem. What do we do with with canada? So lisa, listen to this simple but beautiful point. Let's talk about canal that you take mats and you put in whatever little ingredients and you typically bake it which really you don't but in your case you bake it. What brah would you make on a baked canal? Why? Because before you baked it, you had crumbs that were that were amoi. Matzah crumbs are now you baked it. It didn't go worse. So all agree Mr. B says it all can say it baked is a even if it's less than a because the crumbs themselves are a again if you make it heavily flavored that's something else but we're talking about typical not heavily flavored. Listen to this. You took bread, matzah crumbs, matzah, and you made it into a ball, right? And you cooked it. So it's because once you made it into a ball, so now it's a prayas. Now we know once you cook a gazayas it doesn't help doesn't change. So he says we that a gaz that's cooked never lose. So a canad first you made into a ball of kaz and then you cooked it so it remains and this is a of that even if there's noises but a cooked of bread is a case closed and that's what the is he says we pin the pask even if there's no isi What's the sha? So this is why no doubt about it the is quoted in very good that you know always had shabas morning and he didn't have cake have cake maybe he didn't want the sweets I don't know why but he had every shabas he had he had but it was to have two or three but it was they should be made less than state everybody knows that was not to have That's more than a because it's a however in something very interesting the way he puts it in look what writes he doesn't say what he writes but and that's on so he basically says look at of he didn't even mention it because it was so ug right right now I'll tell you another and that also sounds right and he brings the he I don't understand who doesn't know every child knows that if you that something that's less than a kazayas and you that and then you cooked it. The bra is so you see he held before it became one by cooking the cooking impacted the crumbs and made crumbs less than a gaz cooked what's less than a gaz and you didn't re-ake it. So you're reg you're cooking regular crumbs less than a kazayas says this but it's interesting the he he he breaks it down scientifically because before it becomes one as one kazayas canal. So the cooking affects each little p piece of it. So each little piece became a less than a gazayas that's cooked. That's that's the end of the end of the shila. So they that's why they all explain if you make a canal and you bake it. So you baked it into a kazayas. That's But if you made it into your matzah ball raw and you cooked it says you're cooking, it's a mi say wrong. Before it became a a kazayas, it became cooked pieces of of matzah. Cooked piece of matzah is a mazinus and nothing changes. So here you have that all agree if you would make a matible more than a gaz and you bake it it's a actually even if you make it less than a kazayas if it's baked baked is baked but the the the focal point that son gave to us is the the typical matzah that are really a kaz or more the the isav but Mr. says it's a he does add and now was heavily flavored. There's another reason to say that it's a mus and that is like a cake but our of course we don't flavor it with chocolate whatever sugar but the point is if it's heavily flavor that's another but in the is not so simple there is a to be that it might be so says and that seems to be the way we ask him and again some people want to follow I think he have to have a little of a they said tell the the wife I want small but it doesn't look nice she wants to make a big canal she so really making a big like is a problem but if the so many come it's a to make a bigger canad and make someone wants make sure his family are also on board with that [clears throat] Next question which in a certain sense is much more intimidating and that is what we call a uh pesak cake actually say is a non- gabbrupt a gabbrupt cake and notice some people call it pesak cake because they don't want to feel guilty they're eating gros they say it's pesak cake some people call it gabbrupt cake because that's what it is but I'm talking about gross cake which is made from matzah and flavoring so right away the bell starts to ring because you're taking mats and you're baking it. No one cooks uh gabro's cake. So you're baking real McCoy hami. you're baking matzah and that's why the the p can discuss what's the brah the I saw two very beautiful tubers the bafim inf and the I mentioned earlier and they both speak about this this pes the pes cake and basically they say it really should be a but since there's so much flavoring added so it's not worse than a kakush cake is real flour and water real dough but it's not made as the bread. So therefore the place can seem to say non- gabbr or pes cake, whatever you want. I'm going to say I'm sorry, gross cake or pes cake, however you call it really if you make it into a very bland taste. you're making something like a bread and it's it's baked but typically we have flavoring added and that's why the both the the mentioned and the bas say it's a it's tak and that's the of all was not so excited about this he said because the ma it is matzah is matzah matzah is matzah but he say al says that's the minam and we follow that mig as well so this is the matzah issue I I also saw a chuva from the cut in hay. I never saw them. He speaks about they have chocolate matzah. Apparently they take matzah they cover it with chocolate. So he says la the matzah is unchanged. Your coat is you know what it's like? It's like if someone takes bread and puts a half an inch of jelly, a/ inch of peanut butter and that was very sweet. But nothing changed in the matzah itself. If you cook it, if you if you bake it, I'm so if you cook it, that changes, but putting mats on it doesn't change the mits discusses a beautiful shape for those that eat. Can you eat a pes cake, a gabbr cake ones? Because we don't eat anything has has a trace of matzah in it because the is of eating matzah ones, right? But here's the question. Since laa you make it you you make it and you consider it o matzah because you changed it maybe it changes enough that it could be actually it's no longer matzah. So something that's more matzah like we don't eat because you could the matzah potentially could even be but he seems to be comfortable that this would be enough of a change that those that eats can have it on error pace. The last group of questions are the so to speak and basically it's very simple once we know the simplest shila is mandolin yellow we call them yellow mandolin call mandlin but real name is mandolin which are basically made from a dough has nothing to do with bread they didn't make a bread and take it color it yellow they basically made a a whatever they made the the batter and that those little yellow mandlin are deep fried. So there are two excellent reasons why mandlin are undoubtedly a mazinus. Number one, it's not bread. It's not matzah. So it's part a regular mazinus mixture. And number two, it's deep fried. So it's even if it had have been a piece of bread, but deep fried is bish. So the mand the yellow mand will call them a mazinist. The more of an issue is lately I started manufacturing more and more as called croutons. So croutons are made from bread or kala. You cut it into cubes and you rebake it with flavoring and that's called crouton. I'll use the word ma versus croutons. Now laa if you think about it objectively nothing changed. It was bread. It is bread. There is absolute teresa deama. What's the problem? What's the shila? And the emmes is there was a store here in our neighborhood long before they sold croutons. This [clears throat] wonderful store made their own croutons. They had leftover kala. They didn't sell leftover bread. So Sunday they had available croutons. And it was amazing. You could see this is the crust of of a kala. This is the crust of a rye bread. This is the bottom. This is the top. It was mish. And they they were they were very transparent. They said, "Listen, we took bread and we made a croutons and the brahas are without a doubt. There's nothing to talk about." Now that would that wasn't uh didn't last too long because now it became a whole big product. The the new product is pretty similar with one made in a nafkamina. The new croutons that are made today is made from regular bread, regular bread, but it's not made for bread and then you get leftovers and then you collect the leftovers and you make uh croutons. That would be that would not be a good business. You you can't make a product that's told you how much leftovers the stores have. So they make regular bread and they process it from that bread. What braha would you make on those croutons that come from regular bread? So what's bread is bread. However, and his father as well and they say if the bread was made bread to eat as bread and you made it then into crouton. Nope. That's takoi. But if it never was made into a bread, it's only midprocess to make it into croutons that would be a mazinist. Now I think the heb is very posh because as we said many times verse mus is not totally in ingredients cuz kauish cake dough is regular kala dough. It's totally in function. If you make it into a kala it's you make it into a cockishcake snack it's a miso. So it's totally in function. So if the function of bread is to eat as bread and you have leftovers you make it into a product that's but if you make the bread for no purpose of eating just to make it into a crouton why was bread there's no there is no but be that as it may this is why you'll notice that I'm I guess but I imagine it's true the they sell they write and that's under the and I hope they're responsible enough to write that that Because the vadats that gives the ha also certify that it's a mus if that's true I understand why because they would accept this this understanding if you made bread the shame bread it's you made bread croutons bread now raash is quoted told me this as well that who told you that well you don't find anything in it's regular bread so if you make a very thick dense bread so bread but this is regular regular bread there's no definite texture so that's why you'll hear two sheetas I think the oh you go they tell people to make a that's sak but at least you can understand the different shittas it's all it was a bread but never breadm bread many people tell me they have a minute mic whatever the word is that shabas they have these croutons it's like a more shabasic because you washed anyhow and during the week you want to have croutons you take the mandlin so you avoid fakers That's tal bagel chips is mish the same idea when they started making it in pizza shops I think I was told that the pizza shops that make their own bagel chips from leftover bagels so they slice the bagels making the chips and they they they make the whatever they make deep fry it doesn't make a difference deep fry if it's more than a kazai is then now the reg the the the commercial bagel chips You could be you could be certain they don't buy all the leftover bagels every day otherwise you have a business that's going to be very uh you know unreliable. They make bagels same story make bagels bagel chips. So those that hold bread is tolly in its bread. If it's totally and what it's designed for this would be the same that was not made to be a actual piece of bagel that's eaten as a bread. Melbos again you look at it you see it looks like a terresa hama but it was definitely transformed it was made to make me Melba and that would be the same musk and last but not least which is the most most challenging is garlic nuts garlic nuts as I'm told I did my homework was is is exactly a regular pizza dough but instead of making a pizza they make it into a knot and they make it garlicky and it's sold the person that knows the maze told me it's very rarely if ever deep fried. It is baked. Sometimes they deep fried to get more flavor, but it's baked as a garlic nad. So, it's a regular dough, but the but the reason why some say it's miso is number one, it's royis. So, which is questionable, but at least that's one factor. And number two, the fact that it's so garicky, it's no longer bread. It's heavily flavored with garlic. In fact, not only after they make the dough, they dip it in garlic, but those that want to get a cutting edge on the on the market, they put garlic into the dough itself. So like a double kak of garlic. So that again must be unless it's inedible as a bread, then it would be a snack. It's taken with apple juice and milk pears. That's what he said. Is that was that more than right like a big for today's Wolf one of the board members of sponsoring today's sponsor 8651 one. Hey, I'm from Amen. Amen. Amen. >> They make it again. It doesn't make a difference. >> What say there's no there's no change from the sh to the secum the shinistana. >> Just to review today. First of all, these childs should be taken seriously. We're talking about a question of making the wrong or vice versa which is not even the fact that he's not going to make when he should he's not going to bench and also he'll make a other food. So these shaken with of course with the right to understand it's a serious sh but the basic and it's pretty simple cooked dough or cooked bread actually is almost a steer to bread. In other words, since is based on on the dough being baked, when something is cooked, it never had. And that's why bagel that's only cooked would be and that's the only time we're going to say that bread lose item bread when it's cooked. But even that is limited. So basically on a kaz on a breadcrumb that we know for sure, a breadcrumb or matzah is a mo. When you take a piece less than the gazay of bread or matzah and you cook it so that the would be bur because it's enough of a change to change this small piece of bread. If you soaked a small piece of bread in water then it becomes bread not because of the soaking because it's it's not kish but because of the lack of once something is a kazay nothing could change it. So [clears throat] French toast would be very rare to to make a French toast unless you take a piece less than either you deep fry it or if you cook it first and then make French toast and that would be a legitimate burn and even if you can make a suda it wouldn't be a problem because this is already a cooked food. Cooked food is no suda. Deep fried is tak pan fried very little oil is like a pan fried with more oil than needed but to give it some flavor is a suffic if it's like considered like cooked or not. Matzah bra is almost always unless you cook the crumb the the piece of matzah first then it would be a mazinous pieces. The point of matzah crumbs or breadcrumbs we said even though there is those that hold it doesn't have a ham but our pkim hold that breadcrumbs even the smallest piece of matzah meal is a you made it into soal typically I think that's the meaning you make out of it because you either you soak it a long time or cook the small piece of bread or you make a heavy flavoring but that's baked that wasn't affect ffected by heavy flavoring should be if you cooked the you made it as a kishka in the chalant that also would be a because it is considered cooked not baked a the crumbs as we said even a little bit even small pieces as a putting in a hot soup in a cliche is a unless for some reason the change taste that the taste changes so significantly crumbs that are found in liver or any foods whatever it is that's negligible doesn't count. If you add crumbs into a food then it would be to make even on bigger than a kaz unless you bake it to make it less than a kazinus. The yellow mandlin are a miso vi the croutons again there two different it's bagel chips and melba toast are we consider them as mazoinus even though bagel chips if it's made from bagels is somewhat of a sophic and the garlic nuts should be treated like a mossy unless again it's heavily flavored then it becomes a mazinus