Zevachim 87

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Today's d is and we have two lines from the bottom of so the topic of the ninth per of is the idea that the is says in the par it says in the parazal learned from both of these that even apostle that touches the which we said means that although there's no there's no with a but when apostle touches the is thus it gives it a with regards to the fact that even though it's still possible but there's going to be a that this ple Now the peric then digress and discuss different things that are technically not if they go on the is there or is there no for example the of that was it didn't have a if it touches the is there a dinar or is there not a dinar then the discussed the carbon which we know is but it's a little bit of a misnome Because before the carbon was put completely on the misbeh. So what would be the with regards to the and the and the no and in there's no now that it's on the could it remain on the do we say or maybe the would be the then discuss what would be if something was on the it was in the of the and then it popped out do you have to put it back on or do you not have to put on in other words a dber a part of an animal that was actually in the mar it started burning and now it fell off you put it back on you don't put it back on and that's going to be the topic of today's so Mishna said a very interesting it depends before you have to put it back on we say that once it started burning already at that point you don't have to put it back on anymore the gummor made the garra said that this whole shil is discussing when it was shiri where at the very least it was burnt enough that you could look at it as if the octtora took place but at At the same time, it's not at the point where it's cold. So, it's in this in between stage. It started burning. It's now off the Yes. back on. No, back on. Before you have to put it back on, but if it was at the time of at that point is equal, so to speak, it renders it to be 100% burnt. At that point, is you will not have to put it back on. Obviously, for this, we would need a Gar said there is a makar. says in the beginning of par that the of the was supposed to happen and then the says it was a mitzvah in the morning to do that this man of is really going backwards to this man of forwards to this man of how's it possible that the whole night you're supposed to do the whole night you're supposed to do aren't they contradictory means you burn it means you clean up from what was burnt says you divide the night into regardless that's the if the were on the equal so if it now came off after you don't have to put it back on but if it was before you would have to put it back on says two lines from the bottom what would be if the came off the before it came off the before this is important It's not just on the it's not even on the and now the when you put it back on but so at the moment that the clock strike midnight at that point it wasn't on at all meaning that's partial that the only time is if it was at the time of that's what is taking for granted the question is if it wasn't at the time of is there a backup Is there a plan B? Is there a aenu man, so to speak? Is there another time where we could say that it wasn't on the but there's a second man? You could still uh the second man. So Rabbi said, "Yeah, you know what it is? It's the next night. You could keep it until the next night. And if it's going to be at that point, it's going to be so that you're not going to have to put it back on. You don't have to wait until itself is going to be the meaning even though we had a for but really there's another there's a backup which according to is not the second but rather it's meaning we have a need for he said I know that's not you don't find anywhere that anything should be possib Bolina once comes but we know that there is a related to the if they're hanging around when comes so the aurim become possib to create is not so says it's a doesn't have to be it. So it's for that reason that said although I don't have a mafurish that can create this eagle but once I know I know that from the I can now use one of the to tell me that just like is going to be equal another what would be if aim came off the before and now. So the question is what's going to be the second man now? So according to that says this is says that's what's going to be says there is no equal at all. In other words, there's two in between and with regards to what happens if they were off the misbeha And the gar broke it down into two separate cases. The first case was where you put it up after before according to is not equal. You'd have to wait to said the second case was where it was off the at the time of it was even off the at the time of now you put it up after says who said that is not it was that was only the first if it misses the first at that point of He said, "Who told you? And who told you that the only time is meaning?" We learned that from a it's a it's a tremendous because you would think that is Napoleon's man. You don't look at your clock or your watch to know whether the food is ready. You look at the food to see if the food is ready. It's learned that from a but clearly presupposing that is only true if it's at the time of but if it's not it's not that's the if it wasn't at the time of is there a second that's the different variables and this is but if you would tell me even if it's not there'd be no this whole conversation would be moot because once comes whether they are on the or not on the is going to be meaning you wouldn't have a d to put it back on the so said it in a rather dramatic way he said who told you that the only time if it's Joshua doesn't say anything about it doesn't reference it says who cares if they are or if they're says the not just that they sent a brief a message a telegram from this asked that who's told you that the equal of only works if it's not is true meaning even where it's not thus this whole conversation at first glance between it said the same What happens if they came off before and you put it back at the time of meaning it wasn't at the time of you can't have but there's also no what does it mean if there's no it means it was right you could only be once it was there's no because by definition means to heish what gaza is to us mortals so just like let us steal from somebody steal It's the same concept as a famous says the of work with the of it's the same thing. You're stealing from when are you stealing from when it's supposed to go to it's not anymore so to speak it quote unquote at that point it doesn't pass. So said that there's no on these because came it means it was now where were these they were. So you see even though it wasn't still it's like said equal even if it's not said the same that if even though it was meaning it wasn't at the time which means it was which means that even when it's not in other words we began the gar What would be if the war at the time of so you don't have equal is there a second man and they all said no doesn't matter if regardless of where they been that they sent this hologram for that is even if it's not so what in the world were arguing about meaning was very bothered by it they made such a terrible mistake they thought look how wrong they were told they were arguing where the meat was so juicy it was so fatty there was so much still there that there's no way that we could have looked at it as being equal. So you're right, you're the concept of equal would be true whether it's or whether it's not buton where it wasn't for the to be. The reason is because it was too juicy. And as we saw right in the beginning of this sugo that the only time could be equal is if it's cooked to a certain degree. This was too shain in order to look at it as eal. And it's for that reason that we miss this man. And then the question is is there a second man? Is there not a second man? There's some very obvious they have to ask on this. But regardless we do what we do. So another very very important gum in the soa asked his rabbash. So rab was so the was asking the so we're talking about what does mean that if are meaning they weren't burnt so is that they become possible. So we know that all in the base of were done during the day. The says had to be done during the day can could not be done at night. What was the very notable exception? The of all the were done at night. So essentially during the day they would pile up all the and at night they would go along and they would burn the we know we dab in threeas every day in there's a discussion. Why do we dab in threeas? One says because of being that there were three of us there was three of us. So the three are connected the three of us. But the gum is a different shot. The gummor says that you know why we argued as a result of the which is the was instituted the beginning of dur when there was when there was and there was and the and all the everything that went on This all took place during bias wasn't necessary to have the structured that we have today. That's why the Ezra who lived in the beginning of who was an like the says in the beginning of so that's when real started kicking in again there's always a mitzvah but structured with that will happen more but the bottom line is says that are connected how soak is connected to what about It's a hakar was done at night. So felvis is the hakar. Now you had the whole night to do the hakara. The whole night you had to do the once the night passed at that point you weren't allowed to do the anymore. In fact the says in two places the says in par and the says in paris similar that you had to make sure that the the was going to be done at night but by the next morning at that point already you were out. But the bottom line is is that what happens if you didn't do the at night. So the imam became they became what we know asked what would be if the were meaning there was but the lina happened but it was at the time that it was comes nates it's the morning and there were that the never burnt it's now so the question is is are they are they now balina or they notify meaning there's no explain what was does he want to know if you can burn these of course he could burn the we're learning which is predicated on that touches the so it's even if there being but it's by definition. So it's posit could not have been is there a mitzvah to go burn the course to burn the that's the and it's so the must have been where it was now it's not in the anymore. So we know there would be no mitzvah to put it back on the and burn it. The question is if there's no when it was so maybe there is you could put it back on the says the what was the shim do you compare the as it relates to the and that's regarding the is which we know turned over every week right the turnover used to remain on the every shabas that's when had that was the changing of the guard in the base happened on Shabas and they used to divide the used to get half the used to get half that's when that's when everything happened so the had in it the what would be if you left him there you left it there for a very long time past the Sunday Monday Tuesday Wednesday never became possible why don't you say there's there's a mitzvah at once Shabas comes once the week passes the terret says as long because it's in the there's no so maybe the same would be true with the and the just like the so maybe the same is true with the maybe we compare them to and just like if something's that is the would become possible maybe it's going to be possible there's no says was from or I mean was rabb's you would think the asks is grace a reb a question you would think he'd be but says the whole night you could do what if it was you could be why because if it's even though it maybe is possible But right now it's this law. What if it was now it went off the rabb said y this that was what told he held that but what did say you can't put it back on. In other words, that's a that was not what he heard from his so number one. So we have here it's ask a very he asked that if you go through the rama stating that when the rama brings this he only brings it with regards to the says the raim that when it comes the next morning so even though it says in There's a concept of like not like that was bothered that is not only true it's not only relevant when you're discussing we know there's in as well the says earlier in the so had to be done during the day once comes the dam became possible So just like aim can be and now have absolut never brought the with regards to them was very bothered by that there's no that should be true with regards to there's no remnant in the g that this is only true for the we're learning a sugar But the the theory the has no more than it does to why did only bring the regarding to the why didn't bring the with regards to the very good from this that the reason is not is not related to peric makadesh in the sense that the is the so that now there should be no because if that were the case just like the is the when the at the time that the sun rises to say that there should be no the same should be true if the was on the at the time of the the was on the at the time of the should and say the same thing used to wait The way works is differently and that is that when they it's not long it's not in other words is the that really there is meaning the technical criteria of what makes something applies just like applies when it's there's an idea There is an idea of the when it's so not that it works with but rather what is lan means that you were negligent you just left it hanging around you didn't do with it what you were supposed to do with it but to the extent that you put up I did what I was supposed to do with it. Who said that means that I didn't do the maybe means that I didn't bring it? But as long as I brought it, which is the maybe that's enough for it not to be considered. And that's the sha said maybe whether or so again is the verb of that really it's long being that it's that there should be no so just like it could bead in a preemptive way as well that if something is one accomplishes that it never becomes possible you know or it's not working with the of but rather when it's not considered that it was l it's it just was never just like if you were it wouldn't be if it's not considered l either cuz l means that you never brought it to the but to the extent that you brought it to the even though you didn't actually do the that's enough to say that it wasn't simply because it wasn't said because the muck But the dam didn't go. Where did the dam go? So if the is that the to bead and it can work in a preemptive way to say that something that's supposed to go on at the time that comes that it shouldn't be possible it's a special but if the ver is not that it's working with no when I put a it wasn't I wasn't I did what I was supposed to do. What was I supposed to I was supposed to put it who said means I didn't do means I didn't put it in the that's true for who's never goes that wouldn't go there in other words and the fact that the only brings and he doesn't bring must be that the way works is not that the so that there should be no in a preemptive way that's not what it is what it is is it's not I think I think that it's very mashma like from there's two places in the where the mentions it's actually interesting because over here by us brings the it says clearly implying that there's absolutely you're not allowed to leave you're not let the morning you have to make sure that happens at night. There's another parish that says so very similar both same interestingly if you look at the first mission in where the mission over there mentioned the rash over there says what's the but by the next morning it's brings the other brings the parish brings the But regardless, it says says you shouldn't allow says away from the fats that's until the morning. I ask you is a mafarish which word is being when he says means outside of the doesn't say it says if you look in the par says the same thing again is what does it say was what Lena means. You want to know what Lena is? Lena is you left it outside of the that is the definition of Lena. The is when he wrote you know which word he was tied to. What does mean? Don't leave it around. It's it's a little ambiguous the term. So is helping us out a little bit. So it says the time we explain to you what it means. It means if it wasn't on it's that is the in other words when something is you want to know why it's not you want to know why it's not that it's so works preemptively the ver is that is the definition of lina I think from we have a right But either way, uh it's a first. But regardless, uh that's the that's the first. I'll just tell you something interesting. It's getting late early, but I'll just tell you something interesting. And that is that just a a nice mar. So the Mishna says in office there were 10 that happened every day in the one of the that the Mishna says was that the buser the never never smelled right you would have thought it's outside it's in it could have smelled the buser never smelled listen to what rashi rashi on pirates right if you look in the back of a garumar so there's rashi on the side there's r's the parish of rashi and the spirit of the rama. So this is where brings us incidentally says I quote when they didn't have time to be all day at night right was at night but let's say they didn't have time there was so many they couldn't be what they do is they would take and they would put it and they would leave it there for two or three days until they had time to be moderate. You don't have to worry. You can keep it there for three days. It's not a problem. What do you mean? No, it's not a problem because a miracle happened. Even though it sat there for a couple of days, it never that's what Rashi says. So the what's that related to? It's related to the we just learned. Now you know the rest of the story. But it's interesting wrote a pish on and then he brings this rashi and listen to what he says. Take a look at the which is known as pirish who says that there were times that the carb didn't have enough time to do what they need to do. So they would put all day they would st pile it up anyways they'd wait two or three days when they had time they would deal with it says it's it's very strange it can't be it doesn't make any sense bottom line is there's no way that that's what happened. So what did happen? So others say more posit more simply is that Azor was outside. I mean that's where physically the Azor was and it got very hot sometimes right get very hot during the summer for sure and you had column by the way that was so sometimes the you meet outside in a burning heat for you know 36 hours or whatever it is it can get very very hot. So the bottom line is it gets spoiled that nothing ever happened but to say that they would go and leave and there is such a concept but to go there for two or three days and when they're going to have time that's when they're going to deal with it that's already a very very big but I'll tell you something parenthetically says take a look at the pish that's known as pirish it's interesting it seems like he was suggesting of that he wasn't so sure if is is really so we know some say Rashy's daughters wrote it we know brings the billion at the very end of says that not I mean you have the rash some places and then you have the rean at the end of market so we know not all rashi is rashi but here you have from who said that rashi of voice is is not Rashi. The truth is that it's because in his that he wrote on has an and he says over there he has it's clear to him it's clear to him that is is not rash but I'll tell you something interesting wrote a called he brings this he says and then he brings from others who brought that really is apparently was a controversy. It is rashy. It's not says says says to me says I don't understand how it could be because if you look around at all the nobody really quotes and he says if there was a rashy on this it'd be checkmate right you ever hear says this and this one says that and then there's the medul and this right there's 900 if there's rashi everything starts with rashi and says I don't know I've gone to I mean doesn't say that but the proverbial pish here and your rashi is like an afterthought right is an afterthought when you learn all this how could it be an afterthought it's rashi rash that's where it starts it's not it's so how could rash be an afterthought he says it's clear look at all the it's clear they must have thought that that it wasn't he says a lot of things that I found in this that are very difficult to stand every word in Rashi. So they say who was Rash's grandson who was from the god of the Bali said that he could have written Rashi on he said he could have written Rash but Rash could have never written that's what he's saying one of Rash's said that he set wrote set it's an expression he said literally between every word that he wrote in his purish I mean that's rashi and says this purish doesn't doesn't feel that way it doesn't have that same feel that Rasha says and he says besides he says there's just this inconsistencies between rashi and obvious and then he has a whole simmon it's beautiful it's it's two three columns over here in where he has rashies from specific went through every single rashi and he brought ras from like 10 15 of them that he thinks rashy and obvious is not rashy regardless just interesting so this idea what was the nest the nest was the used to rely on this cool of eight. So sometimes it would sit there for two or three days and it was hot in the sun and still it was that was in fact a tremendous miracle. It's one of the that used to happen in the mik we're going to have to leave the second. So the said that just like the ish so the kesh was madesh the machin. So not only was the mbah madesh but the kevesh was also and not only was the madesh but that had an ability to so we know that's one of the two I would think only how do you know the ramp says this is referring to a that says is the rabbi is something that's tough to the what in this case is referring to the so not only is the madesh but the ish and not only is the madesh but the have an ability to be madesh as well either ways could the bead of apostles do apostle that goes into a is it so for example Let's say dpostle would be in the klesares the kicharis that's going to be used now to do this is the madesh the dust and now you could do and when you do you'll be able to do it was it somehow cleaned it or no so told it's a asking me a told him no I know that in other words very little rashy But the is that understood the mission says is a concept that is but he thought that maybe it's not related to the that we're learning even though it's a mission of maybe it's not coming to tell me regarding but rather regarding a different and that is that we know you can't be can't be once something is hacked unless it has you can't be a maint but you can't be the only time you can't be is once it was but if it wasn't you could be thought that maybe when the mission says it didn't mean maybe it meant something else it meant that if you have that's now in the so that now you cannot be but maybe not and that was I want to know if this is it only true with regards to being able to or maybe it means evenly. So he told him back said that's also a Mishna because when the Mishna went through the examples of cases of the Mishna said so if you remember the it was the second mission in the parish had a long list of it said apostle did the right that's pos the way you read it vizulin was going on the apostle did the Apost did the myulinar And it's that the only time it's au is if apostle also did the say what would be if apostle did the but would do the it sounds like then it wouldn't be au then you could leave the dam there you could even be why I thought apostle did the kabala it's true but once the ple was the dam in a even though the dam is and the cabala is pos so this person is not going to get but as it relates to the of could you do this ra and I could I do the hakaro at that point I could do this and the hako because the wasadesh because if you're going to tell me that is not mad to them then why does the mission say just say even if a kasha wants to do this or if a kasha does do this he can't be mocked because there's a problem with the kabala the ter is that once the puzzle did the kabala even though this we're missing. And you're not getting for this garbage because you don't have that but had an ability to so you see clearly said that see even if you want to somehow wiggle out and say the fact that the mission says so maybe this mission is not a but have another mission the same paric that is a because the mission is mashma only if the kabala and this were done by but if only the cababara was done by apostle you could go and do whatever you want vice that the was but they told him back there's no maybe the way to read the is not but rather maybe it means either or the bottom line is is that if you read the either or then saying to the contrary that's enough to say is enough to say but is only because it could be the does not have an ability to that it should be of the it's interesting the Rama that is the so I'm not going to have time to go through this on this but the pas that the is of the one of the says in is that if that's the case you have that the pasin like not like Yeshua in the first because the discussion in the pkin whether the raamita is like Yeshua which will be sure. So in the first we had only that is when we say it means anything that was the said in other words only something that went on the fire of the that we have the or is it true for anything that went on the not only on the fire of the Rhua said only royally is said anything that went on the says if the pas that is didn't go in the kicharis. It was the dam that went in the cliches. So obviously he holds relates even to something that's not royally. You see it works even for so it's very clear that the rama like because again if it's only the whole point it has to be the is not now what's the you sit down to learn this. What's the first thing that you're supposed to think and that is maybe and it's two different right that has to be butadesh who said that has to do with royal held that madesh is related to msades so that there's no way that could be mad something that can't be mad partially to a separate is mad in there's a concept of royal there's no concept of royal relation don't make any sense so that there's no royal madesh even not that way you see that the mikadesh is avad it's somehow a derivative of madesh so that it can't be more than so it's only that holds that it even makes sense to have a conversation whether or not because according to Yeshua you have to be royally there's no there's no it's not a separate so there's no that must have helped like that the could be as well either way I am. So we know that there's a concept of that's not really the even though it sounds like that's the other but that of course that's not what is there's to that was with regards to what if something touched the says you took a you took a pole you put meat of a carbon on top of the pole you hunger you suspended it on top of the do we say that is where the notadesh is the is also what does it mean the is on the you can now walk it up the and put it on the if you're going to tell me is not that is not either how could you take it from the when you take it from the you're going to have to lift it right so if you lift it At that point it left because if the can't be that means that when it goes into the it's like it left. So at that point how is it possible then to go put it on the this whole concept of the being doesn't really make sense. It doesn't work cuz how you getting it from the kvish to the it has to go via the so isn't that is but the gummor says no it's not maybe you slept it who said you have to pick it up maybe when you just you just shle it but the gummor says that doesn't either work isn't there space between the kev and the misbeh I mean that the space between the kev and the msb isn't that a now the truth is even though the space but we know it didn't go didn't go over the ground because the kev overlapped two the and the but the point is there is a little bit of a between the kvish and the albeit that that a doesn't go all the way down to the ground it's going to go down to the that's really where it's going to go to but right now you're on the of the so again you're at the end of the day you can't just shle it where it doesn't run into you're going to run into by that so mean you're going to run into by that and still it works so you have a but the Mara says no cabbage you go bust a so that was very very small so you make sure the is going to always be on the kesh or the schlling it is going to be on the kesh if on the look at if on the look at the point is you always make it go bus so even though at some point they'll be on top of the that doesn't bother me the sh the is where it's completely on top of the or is on the it's not on the back a little bit on the that doesn't bother me because you can go b for that the question is where it's completely on top of the so says the gum therefore you have no from there but the garra says you see the kvish was mad and the only way to get from the kvish is at the very least by going over that you're going to tell me it's not a ride that is with regards to the laws of because you're going to tell me that being that right of it is on the right of it is going to be on the says at the very least let's at the very least be wanted to know if part of the touch the regarding the of so you have a a piece of meat that's possible right did they touch the is that enough to say that the entire thing that touched the muzz entire piece of meat is now or do we say that whatever touched it touched it? Whatever didn't touch it didn't touch it. He wanted to know if if this do we look at all of his do we look at the entire piece of meat as if it's attached or do we now look at at whatever touched it is on the but whatever touched it is not on the says the shouldn't we be able to be that at the very least because if you're going to tell me that that whatever touches them touch them is whatever didn't touch them didn't touch them is then same has to be true when it goes through the that whatever is on the misb and not in the is on the misb and not in the but whatever is not on the mb is really not on the misb if that's the case you can't go bas so at the very least you should be able to bear says that doesn't bother me you could be we're going to stop