Live Call-In Show ☎️

Hey, wow! Wow, dude. Wow. Wow! Do you realize how long it's been since we've done the live call-in show? It's been a yavel. My grandmother, alav shalom, she used to say that expression, a yavel. It's been to Yavel is a jubilee, 50 years, 50-year cycle. Seven sabbatical years. Sabbatical is a 7-year cycle. So, seven sabbaticals is followed by a 50th year, which is called the yavel or yovel, which is actually the word jubilee. Where do you think the word jubilee comes from? Now you know. Anyhoo, yeah, our grandmother, alav shalom, she used to say yavel. I remember one time she said it. I don't know why. It was like we had bananas, and she was like, "Oh, banana. I haven't had a banana in a yavel." One of my memories. We haven't done the live show in a yavel. But we are back. We are back. We are back. What do you think of that? So, I want to thank all of our loyal listeners and viewers who are tuning in. So much has happened since the last live call-in show. Uh baruch Hashem, tedal kel, we surpassed 100,000 subscribers on the Soul Words YouTube channel. Baruch Hashem. And I received my silver plaque. Where is it, you ask? Where's your silver plaque? Well, it's not here. It's not with me. The silver plaque is actually at the SoulWords house. You all know, I'm sure you all know about the SoulWords house, which is a center of Torah study and gathering. And we did a big event there Yud Aleph Nissan, the night going into the Rebbe's birthday. We had group of women there learning a letter of the Rebbe, the 30th letter from the 30 letters in 30 days series. That was awesome. Um So, the SoulWords house, in the basement of the SoulWords house, is a state-of-the-art video production facility. It's a podcast studio. See this thing I'm sitting here right now is a really a You won't believe it, but it's a garage. It's not even a whole garage, it's a half a garage. It's my studio right now. Um but we built this awesome, gorgeous studio. Shamai and Yisrael from 321 Motion, who are my go-to guys for video production, they went to B&H and I don't even want to tell you how much they spent at B&H. It's a lot. It's a lot. You won't guess the number how much they spent at B&H and um they brought all that equipment over to the basement of the SoulWords house, in the studio in the basement, and that's where the plaque is. Cuz we're setting up a little set and I figured, well, it would be appropriate on my new set to have my new plaque mounted on the wall attractively so that everyone can see that I have a silver plaque. That's for 100,000 subscribers. God willing, um a million subscribers is a gold plaque. 10 million subscribers is a platinum plaque. Let's see. With our sham's help, maybe we'll get there. Moonlight, what was Moonlight's name? Monique? Is that right? She says, "I'm so happy you're back." I'm so happy you're back. Thank you so much. Um thank you. By the way, you're you're wondering, "I want to write in the chat." Well, if you want to write in the chat, you have to be a subscriber to the Sol Words channel. And I there's a reason why I do that. No, it's not cuz I'm trying to get your $3 a month or whatever it is. It's because I don't want wackos and trolls writing in the chat. So, I figure being a subscriber is somewhat of a barrier to entry, and it weeds out people who are insincere. But I suppose if you really wanted to subscribe, if you really wanted to troll that badly, you could invest with a little foresight and you could pay the subscription fee and then you could post in the chat all you like. Okay. Anyhoo, um Speaking of subscribers, yes. We have a fan of the Colin show live with us right now. Yes. Um her name is Miriam. Are you ready to take her call? Well, I think I would sound foolish if I would say no. So, yes. Hello, Miriam. Welcome to the call. Hi, thank you so much for taking my question. Yeah, absolutely. Okay, you're the first caller of the new I don't know if it's called the new season, but we were on hiatus for a while. Now we're back, so you're helping us to get back into the rhythm. Okay, I'm so excited. Um I'm going to ask Okay, so you recently mentioned the soul and body alignment uh when a person is depleted or tired. Yeah. Correct me if I'm wrong. Okay. Um so so from what I understood, it's not the soul because it's composed of pure energy, that's what you mentioned, resulting in the body not being met with its needs, and that's why we think we're depleted, like we're exhausted or tired. So, how do we understand the body's needs then? Like if we think we're giving the body what it needs and it's exhausted. And then and then is it the I I'm I was thinking is it the traumas, but is it like the tikkun of the soul that needs to be addressed and healed in order for the body to be balanced? Okay. Therefore, having its needs met. All right, so a lot of a lot of questions out on the table. So, let let's go Yes. Let's go slowly. One at a time. Okay, one at a time, right? We're we've got We're we're in no hurry over here. We can luxuriate in our exploration of these ideas. So, first of all, for everyone who doesn't know what you're referring to, I think you're referring to a an a short or a YouTube short or an Instagram reel that I posted where I was answering a question about what do you do when your soul feels depleted. And I and I said, well, actually that's a misnomer because your soul can't be depleted. Your soul doesn't get tired. Your soul is pure energy like you just said. Um so that's not what it really is. It feels like your soul is tired but your soul isn't tired. Your soul is is is is vitality itself. What happens is the body, the vessel is not um interfacing well with the soul. And so that's what creates that feeling of being tired. But it's not really the soul that's depleted. Um so that's just to clarify for people who didn't hear that or or or who don't who don't who don't remember it. Maybe they saw it but they don't remember it. So you're you're asking a question which is, okay, fine, I get it. So then how do we address the needs of the body? And how do we know what they are? How do we identify them? Um and then you suggested perhaps some possible interpretations of I think issues that arise that cause the body to um have unmet needs. That's what it sounded like you were saying. But you know and as you said, correct me if I'm wrong and I'm going to say the same to you, correct me if I'm wrong. Did everything I say adequately represent what you had said? Yes. Okay, that's so awesome. I'm out of practice. We haven't done this in a while so I'm thrilled to know that I'm actually capable of paying attention and retaining information. Um yes. So let let me switch things up on you for a minute, okay? Um Okay. All right, let's make this not so theoretical. Cuz you know, I don't think you're writing a paper on this topic. I don't think you called about this because uh you have a homework assignment due tomorrow about this the subject. Right. Right. It's probably something that personally is relevant to you. Yes. Okay. So, can we talk about it a little bit from that perspective cuz I just think it'll help us to Yeah. Of course. tackle the subject a lot better, yeah. Yes. So, so um I'm going to backtrack Okay. I I'm going to backtrack and say that I never had issues with anxiety until ever, thank God. And Until? And um until I would say a few I I don't know the exact date, but I would say a few months or right before October 7th. Okay. Uh and then and then and then October 7th happened and then I had an I had a lot of insi- I had a lot of anxiety and it just escalated. And then I also, once I once I realized that, you know, stuff might like it might be something I need to get therapy for, I I started therapy and then I started having insomnia. Mhm. So, yeah, so so all these things were going on and I and I over time I realized that um that the anxiety was because October 7th happened and I basically went through some traumatic situations in my life Mhm. that October 7th triggered. Okay. So, I so I tried to do therapy and as much as I felt that I did well, and I put it behind me, like a little bit of an insomnia went away, and I started sleeping a little bit more. I I would get like, let's say, 3-4 hours of hours of sleep a night. Yeah. I started sleeping like maybe 7 hours again. Yeah. And then, more recently, I'm going back to the insomnia, and I can't I can't figure it out, and I'm and that's what I'm basically referring to when I say that I'm trying to give I'm trying to meet my physical body's needs, but I'm also just relapsing again. Mhm. Mhm. Okay. So, let me try to understand this. You never really had issues with anxiety your whole life. Then, suddenly you started to have some anxiety. Happened to be, in retrospect, you saw that it was a few months before October 7th. You're not sure you're not certain if there's a connection. Maybe a month, but pretty close to it. So, you're not certain there's a connection, but it seems to you that there's a connection. And you do know that October 7th itself triggered some stuff in you that was personal stuff, old stuff, which came up. Uh you didn't say what it was, but you did uh you you mentioned that. Um Yes. Okay. I'm happy to go into details if necessary. Okay. Um yeah, I might ask you to do that. I just want to get the the basic flow of what you said. Um you said that you sought therapy for the anxiety. And then, am I correct that you said that when it was when you were getting the anxiety dealt with, it actually brought up insomnia instead. Yes. Is that correct? Like Correct. So the anxiety was was being dealt with, but then it got replaced with insomnia. Until I was doing as I was doing therapy regarding the anxiety Yeah. it opened up it opened like during the process I began to become I I got insomnia. During the process of dealing with the anxiety. And the in the process of dealing with the anxiety was effective? It was effective but I don't think it was completed and it's Okay, but it was exhausting. It but it was effective to some extent. Yes. And but at the same time it had a let's say it seems like it had a side effect of bringing up a new issue which was the insomnia. Yes. But then you got over the insomnia. How did that happen that you got over the insomnia? So once I once I acknowledged what my anxiety was from and my fears were from then once I acknowledged it and I brought that to light, then the insomnia it calmed down. And then I and then and and then I stopped the therapy. Mhm. And then it's it's slowly trickling again back again. And you said you acknowledge what the fears were about. Um do you want to share that? Yes. So when I gave birth to my first child Yeah. Um I experienced I experienced near death. Mhm. And I thought that was what everybody goes through. I thought I mean women all the women go that have gone through labor have experienced uh near death. You thought that. But I still believe that. It's a very It's a very Yeah, but I'm going to just stop you. I I don't know what it's like. Okay, I'm going to stop you. Okay. No, I'm going to say this. I don't know what it's like, so I'm not speaking from personal experience. I've never given birth. But Okay. I I I I I never did a statistical like study. I didn't stand on the street and poll 100 women who have given birth, but that's not generally a thing that people say. I mean they say it's difficult, you know, they'll say a lot of stuff. Near death, I haven't heard. Yeah, I haven't heard too many people describe it as near death experience. So I think that's kind of unique to you. I only say that I only say that because my sister-in-law also described it like that. Yeah. And we both did it without an epidural. So I don't know if it's people who experience it without an epidural Mhm. experience near death. But I know that through my therapy I learned that on my first labor it was uh it was not a normal experience that perhaps everybody experiences. Yeah. So One of the producers One of the producers of this show, you know who produced by the way did you How often How often do you watch this show? Um This is my first time knowing about the show. Oh, so But I did do the I did I did I did the sole parenting. That's excellent. Very good. Thank you very much for that and I also did the follow-up um uh the the second course that was the first time you did it. I forgot what it's called. Oh, that's the complex kids that I did with Dr. Bass. Complex kids. Yeah, that's great. No, I was asking if you Yeah, how often you watch the Callen show because I often mention who the producers of the show are and they're basically they're my kids, my married kids are the producers of the show. So, one of the producers of this show actually did a home birth. And I would like to ask her Yeah, well, yeah, that's it's my daughter, of course. By the way, she didn't ask me. She didn't ask me if she should do a home birth, but she doesn't have to ask me. Anyways, I want to get That's incredible. What? Yes. the producers of it Two of the producers of the show did it without an epidural. Okay, but not a home birth. Okay, but two of the producers of the show did it without an epidural. So, could we get get the I don't know if they want to come on and and tell us if they had a near-death experience or if they resonate with that expression a near-death experience, but I'm I'm just curious. Israel, you think we could get some of our uh producers on the show who have given birth without an epidural and tell us if it was a near-death experience? Mhm. Um she says it wasn't necessarily a near-death experience, but there was lots of moments of like uh despair and wanting to, you know, Mhm. Meaning it's called labor It's called labor for a It's like labor, it's intensive labor. Mhm. So when So when I went through that, I I was fearful, and I was panicking, and I and I went through all these um emotions, and uh and I and then I realized that every night when about Also, I didn't I can't mention that when I was having insomnia, I would after waking up after 3-4 hours of sleep, I would wake up in a panic. Yeah. And I my heart was racing, and I had an adrenaline rush, and like I literally went walking at 5:30 in the morning. Like that's how much energy I had to get out, and I had I'm sorry to backtrack, but I think I got a little bit hung up on the words that you used. I I tend to do that. I'm I use words so dramatic? No no no no no No, because you used the word near-death experience, which has a very specific official meaning. I'm I'm now realizing that that's probably not what you meant, and I would like to go back and clarify. Near-death experience, if you Google it, okay? Um it means like people who actually are clinically dead, and they have a very specific experience of often like a white light, a tunnel, seeing departed loved ones, floating above their body, looking down, seeing themselves, seeing their own body. I don't think that's what you meant. I think what you meant is that you felt like when you were giving birth, you really felt like you could die, and you felt the fragility of life at that moment in a very intense way. Is that more correct? Yes. Okay. So, you didn't have like a white light tunnel with like your great-grandmother telling you, "Please come into my loving arms." Okay, that's So, I just wanted to know Okay. Okay. So, but you took the course about complex kids. Yeah. So, I'm just telling you if you you have if you took the course about complex kids, that means you have a neurodivergent child. So, I'm just telling you from my little neurodivergent brain, you use the term near near death experience. I got really hung up on that cuz that has a super specific meaning. Like if you go into YouTube and write near death experiences, you're going to watch like hours and hours and hours of videos of basically the same content of people saying, "I got hit by a bus. I flew up above my body. I looked down. I saw the people. I saw the doctors." Okay, that's a near death experience. But that's not what you mean. What you meant was Right. Right. When you gave birth, it was an extremely intense experience where it became very in a completely new way that's not comparable to anything you've ever had in your life before, it became very very like apparent to you like how fragile life is, that God forbid you could you could die. You maybe even felt like in some ways your brain was telling you you you were dying. Um when someone points out by the way in the in the in the in the chat, something very um accurate, which is that according to Torah law, a woman who's given birth is considered to be someone who's in a life-threatening situation, which is why for instance, you can desecrate Shabbos to not only to do medical treatment, but anything that would bring comfort to a woman who's given birth because it is considered life-threatening, what we call pikuach nefesh. So, it There there is validity to this feeling of hey, I was just in a life and death touch and go type experience. So, there is there is real validity to that. Okay. So, and I'm looking in the chat. Lots of stuff is flying in from the chat. Um Someone is saying um Yeah, they're they're clarifying. No, her heart didn't stop. She didn't go into another realm. That we clarified what it meant. Okay. In medical terms, perhaps maybe this is feelings or the onset of feelings of doom, perhaps. I don't know. Does did you have that? Feelings of doom? Yes. Yes, she did. She did. She had that. Yeah, it was it was basically when I surrendered that's when it all stopped and the baby came out and everything was like over. Mhm. But Mhm. But yeah, it was very When you surrendered meaning when you accepted the fact that you could die. Yeah, when I said okay, I'm done. Like I'm done I'm I'm done trying to fend for my life. Like I'm just ready to go. I could I could die right now. Yeah. Then that's which is a very intense feeling of surrender of like I'm not even I'm not even trying to use my survival instincts. I'm completely done. Really done. Yeah. And then you gave birth. Um yeah. Uh-huh. Someone's writing in Someone's writing in the chat. Did she give birth only once or more than once? You said this was your first child, so I don't know. kids. You have four kids. And this but this happened from I I I went through it four times. And you had similar experiences each time? So, the So, the other So, the next two children I gave birth also without an epidural and they were smooth, easy uh deliveries. Great. After shushan And also no no epidural. And then uh, and then my father passed away. Mhm. So, when I when I went into labor with my fourth child, Mhm. just uh, just a quick add, um, when I was going through labor, I also told myself, I made this up in my own mind. Is there truth to it? I don't know, but I basically said like, my father's going through so much pain, he had cancer. If he could go through all that pain, like Hashem, if my pain could take away any of his pain, then so be it. And so, like that gave me strength to go forward and like revisit something that I basically trauma- I was traumatized by the the feeling of death. Mhm. But I was happy to revisit it if it would take any pain away from my dad. And then, when it came to my fourth child after my dad passed away, I could not face my like I couldn't face death ever again, and I was scared of it, petrified. And so, I needed a epidural. And um, I think and I know that my father's passing also was part of the triggers of my insomnia and my anxiety. Mhm. Mhm. Okay. So, let's get this all straight here. You started having feelings of anxiety a few months before October 7th. You went to therapy for it. It was helping to reduce the anxiety, but then it brought up brought up the insomnia. But then, you were able to basically get rid of the insomnia or significantly reduce it when you realized that when you look back in your life, what was this really all about? It was about the trauma of your labors. Specifically, the first and the fourth one. No, not the fourth one. You did the epidural for the fourth one. Specifically, the first one. Yeah. Okay. And and and your father's passing, that was also part of the trauma? Um it yeah, it had to do with the trauma. It had to do with it. Because he was my rock. Um like as long as he was there, everything is fine because he like like he could take care of everything. Mhm. And once he left, he also had a presence to him. And he was very well-loved in the community all over the world. Whoever knew him loved him. So, once he took off, I felt like the love he had for me went away, Mhm. which was very painful selfishly. And then um the fact that he wasn't there, just his presence was enough to like make everybody you know, do the right thing or go on the right path or you know, but once he left, like it was kind of like an earthquake. Mhm. Like there's uncertainty and like it's just there's like it's just I don't know how to describe it, but but basically like like yeah. And and he passed away between the births of your third and fourth child. Yes. Yeah. Aha. Okay. And if you remember how we started this whole conversation, it was about um addressing the needs of the body. Right. And specifically, I guess in your case, we're talking about sleep. And then we were sort of getting into uh things that could cause the body to have problems meeting its own needs. Okay. Okay. Okay. So, you know, you have a lot of self-awareness here. I mean, you know quite a bit about your your story. Um there's a lot of there's a lot of information here. I'm saying in a good way. I I just want Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Thank god, but it was a it was a it was like pulling teeth through like through therapy because I didn't I didn't realize that I went through panic and fear and trauma with my first labor. And it was a lot it was a lot of trauma. me that you spoke to your sister-in-law and she had a similar experience. When did you speak to your sister-in-law and find out she had So, I assumed everybody No, after I gave birth, we talked about it and I assumed Oh, but you just assumed everybody had that and so therefore you didn't think anything special about it. Right. Okay. I said, "Everybody goes through it." And then and then it wasn't until I went to therapy that I learned that I went through a very unique experience, which I still don't fully understand because I feel like everybody goes through some intense level of labor especially on their first child and especially if they have no epidural. Right. Okay. So I still don't fully understand how mine was different. Well Because your your your bones are moving and it's all it's a lot of Yeah. So But you know that there are many many factors and there are a confluence of factors that create an experience. What I mean by that is that first of all there are different kinds of birth. Like every birth is different. You yourself know that you had you gave birth four times and it was a different experience every time. So first of all different births are more difficult or less difficult. Secondly everybody has a different th- a pain threshold. I'm saying neurologically literally the amount of pain they actually feel or don't feel. And then a third factor is psychologically psychologically how much that pain bothers you or doesn't bother you. And that could vary from one person to another person and it can even vary within one person meaning sometimes when you're feeling more psychologically ready for it you can actually deal with more pain. And other times when you're psychologically not ready for it you you can deal with less pain. So there's so many different factors. You follow what I'm saying? Like from that vary from one person to another and even within one person there are so many different factors. And um you know every experience is unique. Truly every experience is unique. Um Right. So I I don't know if it I don't I I I I feel like you have like this desire to make some type of a general statement. And what I'm going to tell you is I'm not going to tell you don't do that. But I'm going to tell you you don't need to do that. I I'm going to tell you that I don't think it's as important as your I'm picking up from you that it you would very much like to be able to make some type of general categorical statement about birth. And I'm saying I don't think that's important. I think it can just be your personal experience. It can be unique to you and not just unique to you, can be unique to that one birthing experience. And it doesn't have to be a doesn't have to be a general rule that applies to anyone else or even to yourself in in other circumstances. So I guess let me ask you the simple question. Um do you feel that you have healed from the psychological and spiritual upheaval that you went through? No? You still have it? Okay. No, I have it. And now just to complicate things a little more, I'm going to add that um you're you're a thousand percent right. My my mind's like what I could handle was out of out of 10 I could handle a 20 of pain. Okay, so I could I handle I I felt like I could could more than any anything. But, when I went through the experience, I also got um uh I also got uh I forgot what the term is, but um my nerve um my nerve basically like one of my nerves uh uh I forgot what it's called, but basically one of my nerves um on the bottom right side was also sciatica. Yeah. I was having sciatica. Yeah. So, that happened 10 days before I went into labor. Um and I and also I was experiencing insomnia because of the pain from that. And recently, I feel like this this same issue is like revisiting me with the sciatica. Mhm. So, I like I don't know why this is like revisiting me, but it's it's like knocking at my door and I and I know I'm trying not to give it all this attention, but now I am because I'm speaking to you. Thank you. Really really thank you for making this available so I could share it. But, I don't know like I don't know what it's trying to get my attention for. What I don't know what I'm supposed to do. I'm like I I'm not as scared as I was before because I addressed the issues. Like I I was so fearful before I addressed the issues that uh that like my I made sure that my husband and I got guns and we knew how to shoot in case we needed to do self-defense. Mhm. And like we got vehicles to be able to escape, God forbid, any situation. Like that's like a different level of kind of crazy insanity. Mhm. And like and I'm fully aware of that. Mhm. And now I'm like So now I took care of that part, but now I'm getting the sciatica uh visit. And I'm again I'm fully aware the sciatica or are you afraid of it? I didn't pick up on that. Are you actually getting the sciatica or you or you just afraid you might be getting it? getting No, no, I'm getting light hints of sciatica. Mhm. Like I notice it when I'm walking or sitting. Yeah, the gid hanasha. You know about the the gid hanasha, the sciatic nerve. Well, it's a Uh-huh. the story in Genesis about Jacob and the angel, Jacob wrestling Esau's angel. And he uh gets his hip socket uh dislocated. And he damaged the nerve, the sciatic nerve. And that's why it's prohibited for his descendants to eat the sciatic nerve of an animal, even of a kosher animal that's been slaughtered kosher. We don't eat the the sciatic nerve because of because of that incident. So the the the sciatic nerve injury is uh goes all the way back to uh our father Jacob. His his struggle with with Esau, who in many ways was, you know, it was his twin brother. In in many ways it was an extension of himself or a mirror image of himself. It was an internal struggle. Jacob and Esau are twins. They're often compared to the two souls, the godly soul and the animal soul. The the two inclinations. The evil inclination, the good inclination, struggling within us. Yeah. So, you know, I'm not saying your sciatica is completely spiritual. I'm I'm sure that uh there are physiological reasons. Like and and and being pregnant is a very common cause for sciatica. It just puts pressure on on the body. So, it's obvious physiologically why that would happen. But, it's interesting also that spiritually it does have significance. It's a specific It has specific significance regarding struggle and specifically internal struggle, struggle with one's self, struggle against one's lower self. Struggle Yeah. dealing with your your your your demons. That that lower self, that base self, that animalistic self that wants to take over. Right. I think it is applicable. Yeah. It might not be, but I'm going to share just in case it is because like I'm shomer Shabbat and I'm um I wear skirts and I cover my hair, but I felt that I felt that you know, self-expression is very important and the way I would wear snood was a little bit on the rebellious side. Mhm. Like I would wear skirts, but it would be a little shorter or I would uh maybe at the beach I would wear something more comfortable and relieving revealing that I wouldn't wear if I wasn't at the beach. So, when I was doing the therapy, I also um I also realized that like part of the therapy was realizing that I felt like I was being so good that this was the only autonomy I felt like I had. So, I was rebellious in my dress. And over time through therapy, I decided, "Okay, like I don't need to be rebellious. Like I'm mature and I know that my body's holy and that um and that holy things do have a cover. Like you wouldn't let a mezuzah or a Torah just roll out wherever it is. So, I really took that to heart and I um and I tried to be more like strong in that in terms of covering my elbows instead of a short-sleeve shirt or covering my knees better with a skirt. But the truth is I struggle with this a lot because I don't see how a the length of a skirt covering my knees or my elbows is going to make such a huge difference. And I feel like I am bottling up my personality and who I am. And I do feel like I kind of have lost myself because I'm not dressing the way I would dress in my personality. I'm not. Mhm. I know I'm not. And I And I feel like maybe this is a trigger. Yeah. like it's a trigger. It could be a trigger. Well, it is it is it is a trigger. If you're telling me you're being triggered, then uh it is. I think it's significant. You You were You weren't sure if it was connected, but I think it is. Um It's interesting. I'd like to explore that. I'd like to understand that a little bit better. Um You know, I guess tell me more about this. Like, when did you start to struggle? When did you start feeling resentful about these uh laws of modesty, the restrictions, the the regulations? When when did you when what when's the far as far back as you can remember? Like, how far back can you remember feeling the first time you were consciously resentful of this? Uh when I So, I I started I stopped wearing pants and I wore modest clothing when I was uh in high school because I learned of a divorce and that what created the trigger for the guy to treat the woman not good and all of that. So, No, stop. Stop. Stop. Stop. Stop. Okay. Stop. And then fast forward You were in high school and you heard about a couple No, no, no, no, no. No, I'm going to I'm going to interview you. Somebody you knew close to you got divorced. Yeah. And you I think he had psychological problems. Yes, he did. And you were 15. 100%. Uh you didn't say how old you were, but how old were you? 15? 14 or 15? 14 or 15? And in your mind, it was because his wife or now ex-wife was wearing pants. And that's why the marriage fell apart. No, no. No, no, no, no, no. No, no. I said what causes men to uh do things that are inappropriate it's because they're allured or they see something and then they his wife was modest, but somebody else was being immodest and he went outside the marriage. And that shook you up. No, no. I I think I think it just it just brought to my mind Where What the Hold on a second. I'm I'm I'm interviewing you now. I want to understand where this 15-year-old got this the There's a whole jumble of stuff out on the table. I want to understand where your little 15-year-old brain got this story. Uh I made up a story in my head of how to prevent of me of myself how to prevent myself from creating like negative energy like that. To not be a home wrecker. Yeah, to not be a home wrecker, exactly. Okay, so basically somebody got divorced because the guy was doing inappropriate stuff outside the marriage. No, even in the marriage. He was treating her not very um proper. He was treating her not proper. He was being disrespectful in their in their personal life. Yeah. Okay. In intimately in Intimately. And I'm not going to ask you who this couple is that you would cuz I'm Follow what I'm saying, okay? I'm not going to ask you who this couple is that you would have such intimate knowledge of their personal life and you would know that he was being inappropriate with her in their intimate marital life. I'm not going to ask you who this couple is, but obviously you had close access to know this kind of information. Right. Right. Okay, I understand that. I hear that loud and clear. I understand that very very, very clearly. So, the the the breakdown of this particular marriage Hold on. The breakdown of this particular marriage, of this couple who was close to you was an upheaval in your life. Yes. Yes. And then fast forward. No, I don't want to fast forward. I don't want to fast I don't want to fast forward. You're fast forwarding cuz you're uncomfortable cuz I found where your sciatica comes from. Because because No, we're going to sit on the 15-year-old narrative. That is where it all comes from. So, let's slow down. We're not going to go away from this. With your permission and if you get freaked out and you need to stop, we can stop. But I want to stop and focus right now on being 15 years old and the breakdown of this very, very um this couple that's close to you and I'm trying to be super sensitive. So, I I you know, and I understand that there's privacy and there's No, you don't want to You know, I'll be as open I'll be as open as you'd like. I'm totally okay with that. So, So, it was Yeah, go ahead. to be very open. Okay. It was basically it was my It was my dad's nephew and it was my mom's niece. Okay. And because of that uh they were only married for maybe 2 months. Okay. at most. Okay. And they were very young couple. But how did you know the nature of their intimate life? Because it was a very it was a very ugly divorce and her my mom's family and my dad's family had like a catastrophic uh future things to this um event that took place. So, you're 15 and you're hearing the adults talking about things fighting that are inappropriate to discuss publicly, let alone to discuss in front of a 15-year-old girl. Um actually Go ahead. It was when I was probably 10 years old or younger, 8 years old. Oh, even younger? Um but when I Yeah, I It was younger, but when the event took place when I was 8 9 years old. Okay. But I learned the details when I was 14. Okay. Okay. So, it happened when you were 14. realized the details. And this was something that was so destabilizing in the family that 7 years later people were still whispering about it or maybe screaming about it. I'm not sure which one. Um and talking about the dirty gory details of this this marriage. And it's so interesting cuz they were only married for a few months. And people were talking ad nauseam about it 7 8 years later. They were talking about it longer than the whole marriage existed. Right. And you hear this and you're 15, you're a sweet innocent girl and you're hearing this like the gory details of this breakdown of this marriage and you're traumatized. Yeah. And you're losing your innocence just hearing these things. Right. And you're thinking to yourself, well, if this is what a woman's sexuality can do, it can cause so much pain and destruction and havoc. I I I better start dressing modestly so I don't cause that kind of pain and destruction and havoc. Right. And so when you embraced a higher level of modest dress, it wasn't out of love of God, it wasn't out of love of yourself, wasn't because of self-respect or trying to have a more noble way, it was literally a trauma response to oh my God, this is what happens. Uh this monster um a woman's sexuality comes and destroys an extended family. Well, I'm not going to be the one to have that happen. It's not going to happen because of me. I'm putting on a long skirt right now. Mhm. Is this correct? I'm making stuff up. looked at it that way. Yeah. I didn't look at it that way. I looked at it as like just uh like I would rather make positive ripples also. Like when I was younger at that time, if we were walking to a store or walking on the street, like cars would drive by and like the gardeners would whistle. Yeah. So I think that was more of it was more of like I don't like being whistled at. So I knew I need to look more Okay, but you're you're you're you're changing the subject a little bit and you're saying things that are true. They're true. They're not untrue, but I I I want to Okay, I'm I just want to keep us It could be that it was a trigger. It was like a traumatic trigger and I saw it in a positive way. Not as much as a negative, but it's true. It was a negative. Okay. a trauma response. You're right. Okay. So, what you're describing as a teenager becoming aware of the fact that men are noticing you is a universal I mean, I never gave birth I've never gave birth and I've never been a woman and so I'm speaking based on certain I don't know assumptions, but I I can't I I I I just I feel funny saying this cuz I don't really know what it's like, but this is a universal female experience. This is when you're I mean, you you I don't know how old you were. You were saying you're 14 or 15. Some girls start even experiencing it even even younger where you realize that that that men are noticing you um and it's not necessarily a good feeling. Um it's a weird feeling. Right. Um Yeah. And at the same time that's happening you're getting information about a dirty divorce. Right. And you're identifying with that story while you're processing your own coming of age and sort of plugging yourself into that story and being like well, you know, if the gardener is whistling at me, how far how many steps removed are we from me being the one who destroys a marriage and creates a ripple effect that that devastates an an extended family for years. Mhm. Right. So, what I'm saying to you is it is not at all surprising to me that you still struggle with modest dressing um because it's not something you embraced in a in a as something that you value as a as a virtue. It was something that you did to because you were you were witnessing devastation and you were trying to mitigate some of that. And this was the the in your little 15-year-old brain and I guess you didn't really process it with It sounds like you didn't really process it with anybody. I mean, did someone help you come up with this narrative or this is basically your own 15-year-old No. thinking. This is your on your own. This is what you came up with and you made this decision. You're not wearing pants anymore. That was a big decision, wasn't it? Yeah. Yeah, that was a big decision. You remember making that decision? Yeah. Yeah, what what did that mean to you when you made that decision? What was the significance of that? Uh that I wanted to be different. Different than what? to be different. Than what? Than than than how I grew up than How did you grow up? that What does that mean? Different than what? Uh I don't know. Different than you know, I I don't know. I I just I don't know. Can I I want to be float something out and you tell me if it resonates with you? Okay. Yes. You're looking at your family and you're seeing a broken marriage, which again, lasted a very short time. People were talking about it. I'm just doing the math here. It lasted a few months, which is like a quarter of a of a year. You're talking about it for 7, 8 years. So, they're literally talking about this marriage 32 times longer than the marriage itself existed. I think my math is correct. Yes. Okay. So, that's how you grew up. And by the way, I'm not saying that you grew up in a you know, you had a terrible upbringing and your family's dysfunctional. God forbid. I'm not saying I think you have a wonderful family and I know that you adored your father and he was your rock and I I know that just from talking to you for the for the past 30-40 minutes. So, I'm not saying you had like a messed up childhood. Okay. But, one of the things one of the things that you associated with the way you grew up was um a lack of sexual safety. Mhm. I you know, also to add I went to I went to private school, then I went to public school while all my siblings were still at private school. And um we were allowed to wear pants and tank tops, but my mom was also very controlling of how how I dressed or how I went out or if I went to sleepovers. Like she was just very controlling even now as an adult. And I feel like I feel like that also has to do with it. Because I like if my if I was wearing a tank top, she would say like you have to pull it up more or you have to wear a jacket or you uh you can't wear shorts. Like she was just controlling. So, Mhm. I started wearing modest clothing. And Yeah, but can I point something out to you? I feel like yeah. Yeah. Sure. Your mother made comments about the way you dressed for for years. Yeah. But, you didn't make that change in the way you dressed until you found out some inappropriate information that you shouldn't have known. Right. Okay. So, you you actually when you're saying that your mother used to comment on the way you dress, you're actually proving my point, which is it what had it really didn't have to do with her comments because for years she made those comments and you continued to dress the way the other girls in your school would dress. But when you were traumatized for finding out dirty information, you know, the the brutal uh sordid details of somebody's personal life, which really shouldn't have shouldn't have been discussed. I don't know how you found it out. I don't know if you walked into a room and people were talking about it or whatever. It doesn't matter. The point is they shouldn't have been discussing it and they were and because of that as a as a result you found out about it and you didn't know what to do with it. And then all of a sudden Right. Negative two. all of a sudden you were you were traumatized and then it threw you into this new level of uh the I I of of dressing modestly. So, what I what I'm saying is to me this story is not so perplexing when you say that you resent or you struggle with feeling resentment about dressing modestly. It makes perfect sense to me cuz I I see how that came into your life. It wasn't a pleasant thing. It wasn't You didn't embrace it out of love. But I But I But I seek I sought the truth and I felt like it was a very I I identified with it strongly. Well, well, that's Jacob and Esau. If You understand what I'm saying? Jacob and Esau. Right. So, because the there's two parts of you. So, you're saying that even though it came to you in a dysfunctional way, in a traumatizing way, but once you did it, you did connect to it. There is a beauty in it, and that they can both be true. They can both be true. In other words, there there is spiritual beauty in modesty, and and and there was a part of you that that felt that and appreciated that. But at the same time, there was a part of you that felt like, "Oh my god, if men could just not be creeps, I could just wear pants and not have to worry that I'm going to destroy someone's life." Right. But then what's like Why do we need Why do we need a cover specifically the elbow and the knees? Why can't we just wear a skirt? Yeah. And not have it too tight. Yeah. So, if you want to get into a discussion of the Halachas of Tzniut, um I think everybody's going to leave this call. They're going to just They're going to see them dropping off. I I I I It's not interesting to me. Can we Yeah. Can they Can they comment if they want to know if it's necessary to cover the knees and the elbows or and if they're not interested in it, then we'll move on. Uh you want me to do You want me to poll the room? I'm not interested in it. So, let me let me tell you something, okay? I'm not interested in it because Okay. Here's the thing. Here's the thing. Everybody should ask their rabbi, and they should receive guidance in how to follow Halacha. So, I'm not going to discuss knees and elbows, just like I'm not going to discuss the nuances of Shabbos observance or of how to keep kosher. Right. Right. I I I That's not not not interested in that because everybody should just consult their rabbi and get guidance and adhere to the level of halacha that they were told is appropriate for them. So, that that's it. But, I'm more interested So, I'm going to add Yes. I'm going to add I didn't I was not rebellious about my dress until I graduated high school and I went to Israel for the year. Up until then, I was still wearing long sleeves and below the knees. But, once I went to seminary and I had a rude awakening with uh with the school that I was trying to attend Let me just guess. Um Yeah. Because this would adhere to certain stereotypes. Um the administration had a draconian approach to the girls dressing. No, no. No? No. No, it wasn't it had nothing to do with that. It was I decided I I just I just It was a It was a nice learning experience and a great year where I got to know myself better and I started doing things on my own terms in terms of like if I wanted to wear short sleeves, I was like, "Why am I Okay. So, it was more about your first experience out of the house on your own experiencing the world, experiencing freedom. Yeah. Okay. So, basically, let me just retrace the story cuz I got to make sure that I'm following. All right. So, you had this traumatizing experience where you found out the the gory details of somebody's divorce from 8 years previously. You internalized that as sexual shame and you started keeping sneas in this neurotic way. You were able to to basically maintain that without any feeling of conflict for a number of years for a few years and then you went away to seminary you experienced the big world yet a taste of freedom and you were like why am I maintaining this extra restrictive level of modesty? Right. Right. Like I still continued wearing skirts and Right, but the story makes perfect sense. I just I just want to point out that this all makes sense because All right, so you took on this restrictive level of of of sneas of of modesty but because of this traumatic experience. You got away with it for a while because really there was nothing to make you feel conflicted about it. Like it was fine. It was there was no you didn't really perceive any other option. There was no temptation. You got out of the house you experienced freedom and all of a sudden there was this other option. It was like why am I still restricting myself? So then that's when you started to experience the feeling of conflict. So that to me that makes perfect sense. But um Okay. Are you still with me? You following all this? Yes. Okay. So people. Okay. Now here's here's the story that I'm hearing. Okay. So this is an incredible story. Okay. Here's where we started. How that. Okay. It it is. It's amazing. People are amazing. But you know, you are amazing in a in a unique way. Each one of us are amazing in a in in a unique way. Okay, so here's the story that I hear. You um never really had your whole life. You started feeling anxiety a few months or maybe even a month before October 7th. After that, you sought some help for dealing with anxiety. It was semi-effective, but it brought up this new issue of insomnia. The insomnia started to improve when you started to realize that you had uh some trauma from the the birth of your first child. So far, so good? Yes. Okay. Which was that you had this experience of really feeling like you're going to die or you might die and having to just become psychologically okay accepting that fact that you're letting go of the survival instinct and allowing whatever happens to happen. Okay, and that was Yes. an intense experience. All right. Which you thought was universal, you thought everyone had that, so you never really explored it. Okay. All right. Prior to that birth you had sciatica during your pregnancy. When that was actually the first time you experienced insomnia. Right? Yes. Yes. Yeah, that was the first time you experienced insomnia. Okay. Um we spoke about sciatica and about the the that it's Jacob's wound that he gets from struggling Esau, who is actually in some ways his own lower self. And I threw that out there and I was like, "Does that resonate with you?" And you're like, "Yeah, I have an internal struggle with my lower self." And I'm like, "Tell me about it." And and basically you told me the story of how you struggle with modesty. But then we found out why you struggle with modesty. Because the the way that you came into it, you weren't raised with that standard. You took that standard on. And the way that you came to take that standard on was because of something traumatizing that happened that corrupted your innocence as a as a teenager. Is this all correct so far? Right. Yes. Okay. Okay. Very on the dot. Okay. This is your life. I mean, this is amazing. It's amazing. All right. So, I would like to try to make peace. To make peace. You know, when when Jacob re- confronts Esau, he tells him, "I'll meet you at Mount Seir." And we're told when that will happen, it will actually be when Mashiach comes. Well, all of Mashiach and the heart Esau of Lishpeit. About the heart seeing Lishpeit is a a a Esau of Well, he saw that I'm a loser. And the kingship will be God's. That means in the Messianic era. So, the real peace between between Jacob and Esau doesn't happen until the Messianic era. However, I do believe that there's a concept of a Gullah practice, which means an individual Messianic era, which basically means um in microcosm in your own life to have like a little Mashiach moment. So, even though bringing peace between Yaakov and and and Esau, between Jacob and Esau, really only happens with Mashiach, I would like to try to, if it's not too ambitious, I'd like to try to bring Mashiach a little bit here. A little bit. At least for you in this specific area. Okay. That's fine. I think first of all, somebody needs to go back and tell your 15-year-old self that tznius, the Jewish laws of modesty, um, are not a reaction to men not knowing how to control their lust. It's not what it is. And you know that intellectually already. But I want to tell it to you as a 15-year-old. I want to tell you that if you would like to start treating yourself with greater dignity and self-respect and cherishing yourself by dressing in a more regal way, then that's a beautiful act of of of self-respect, self-esteem, and that it should be very meaningful to you, and I hope that it I hope it will I hope you'll find it very fulfilling. But it has nothing to do with men not being able to control their lust. It's something you do for yourself, and it's between you and God. Right. And the fact that you have this need for self-expression. And that sometimes this the clothing that you would like to wear is not halakhically necessarily acceptable. I get it. That it makes sense and you're not you you're not trying to attract attention. When you say, "You know, I would love to wear that outfit even though it's revealing." It's not cuz I'm trying to get attention. I I I don't it's I don't even care if other people see it. I think it's nice. I want to wear it cuz of the way that I like it. I would feel like this fits my personality. It's just something that I I feel is more in line with with with with who I am. And I totally get that. And I think that that's a totally acceptable feeling to have. And that halakha comes and governs our behaviors and and tells us um what's acceptable as far as behavior and what's not acceptable as far as behavior. And that sometimes you can say to yourself, "You know, I would love to wear that outfit. It would really feel like self-expression. I think I would look great in it. I think it would make me feel good. But I'm not going to do it because Torah, which is God's blueprint for reality, has revealed to me that ultimately it's not truly aligned with who I am. It's aligned with a part of who I am. But it's not really who I am. And so I'm going to forego the the fun and the self-expression of of wearing that. You still with me? Yeah. Yeah, I'm listening. What do you think about this? Yeah, I think it's correct. I think it's important to look regal and and not not from a from that negative place, but from a beautiful kingship. Yeah. I think that's very important. I think it's an immature part of me and it's probably like I'm trying to um be that 15-year-old girl that like Was deprived? like held off. Yeah. She was deprived. Cuz that little 15-year-old girl didn't really even know there was anything wrong with the way she was dressing. And then all of a sudden she crash course in this very traumatizing way and is like, "Oh my gosh, is that what I'm doing when I dress that way? That's terrible. That's awful. I can never do that." Right. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense to me. I'm trying to dress in in my 15-year-old self. But it's 15, yeah. So I wonder now like how much of the anxiety and the insomnia and how much of the struggle really goes back to that. Like if you could make peace Right. with yourself as a modest Jewish woman. Make peace with it. Not that it's something that a confused 15-year-old thrust upon you. You know, I personally I've had this experience of like resenting my younger self for making decisions that I've got to live with. Because what a 15-year-old version of me had a neurosis and that's the way that he responded to something, now I'm stuck living with the consequences? Right. So, you know, and I'm saying this personally, I've had that exact feeling. Um and I think it's fairly common. So, it's almost like I got to keep these laws of knees and elbows because this 15-year-old was traumatized. Give me a break. Right. And the answer is no, you don't have to keep it because a 15-year-old was confused and scared and didn't know how to deal with things that she shouldn't know about. You don't. That's not the reason. You keep the laws of modesty because it's an act of spiritual self-care. Spiritual self-care. Yeah. I like that. Yeah. That definitely resonates. So So, the sciatica is a trigger. Well, sciatica is the wound of the struggle between Jacob and Esau. Right. So, it was just to bring this to my attention. Indeed. To make peace between your higher self and your lower self. Your higher self, which recognizes the beauty in modesty which you described earlier. And your lower self that's conflicted about it. Your lower self on one hand says, "Well, I have to be modest or it will cause men to be lustful and destroy families." But at the same time, your lower self is like, "But, it's fun to dress in things that are cute and feel like they fit my personality." Mhm. So, your higher self has to have a nice discussion with your lower self and gently, lovingly bring it on board. And I think when you can achieve that inner harmony, um it'll address a lot of the underlying stress that is manifesting as anxiety, that's manifesting as insomnia, and it'll allow you to feel more whole with yourself. At peace with yourself. Yeah. Amen. I hope so. Yeah. This is fascinating. Do you find it fascinating? Yeah, I think it's I think it's uh interesting, for sure. Yeah. Pretty cool. And I and I believe I know you said that I could be unique and different. Yeah. In my own personal way, but I think it's also a collective trauma that we all I know you said not to, but Okay. All right. You were You did such good work with me. I will indulge you. Go ahead and give in. Make your general proclamation. Go ahead. Yeah, I truly believe that we all, in our own ways have experienced a collective trauma after October 7th. Like That's true. triggered this way, somebody else got triggered triggered in differently. That's true. And we're all just like trying to heal all of our wounds that we all have cuz we're here cuz we wouldn't be here if we were perfect, right? So it's triggering everybody's wounds to heal it and we can only we could only heal it if we acknowledge it, which is what I wasn't doing through in therapy. I I spent like at least I want to say like eight of my sessions trying to cover up that I was fearful and Mhm. panicking and had anxiety. Like I was just I was like everybody like why like I didn't get a job because I'm scared. Right. I got it because Everybody does. protect myself. So So until I didn't acknowledge it, I couldn't go forward in my therapy. And I feel like it takes a lot of work. And it's hard. Yeah. Yeah, so so yeah. But I feel like tonight was extremely productive. Great. really I know I already said thank you, but I really appreciate your time and everyone listening and being able to share it. Well, I appreciate your committing to doing this work because it's you know, it's not easy. I mean even intellectually you have to focus. So but not let alone like you know, the emotional toll that it takes. But in in the end I mean you you you feel good about this. I mean, yeah, you said you feel good about it. So, and God willing the the effects will be more recognizable as time passes, you know, it it things hit you. They they don't you don't get all of the clarity all at once. It's sort of time release. But, I think Yeah, I think And I'm good. And if I struggle if I if I struggle again Mhm. Cuz it's a struggle. Yeah. So, like I'm just supposed to Well, you know, what did you do when you thought you were going to die when you were giving birth? What did you do? You surrender, yeah. And maybe that was the lesson there, you know, and then you gave birth. So, you were fighting for your life, literally fighting for your life. Your most basic survival instinct, fighting for your life. Then you said, you know what, I'm not fighting anymore. If I die, I die. And then you gave birth, and not only you lived, but you brought life into the world. Right. So, I think that's your lesson there about struggle. So, silly. Yeah. And so, what does that look like, you know, when when you start to struggle inside when the Jacob and Esau wrestling match is happening. But, I want to wear this cute thing, and it would be so in line with my personality, and you know, and then you start fighting back and forth with yourself, and you have that internal dialogue. I think I think it's time to just surrender and to say, you know what? I can't I can't fight this fight. And by surrender, I don't mean go ahead and do something that you know is incorrect according to Torah law. What I mean is just refuse to fight the fight and and allow God to take over. Right. You know, you'll you'll do the right thing and it won't have to be from conflict. You can do the right thing from from a place of just seamless flowing energy. Which is I think where we started from. I think that's where we started from when you said you saw me talking about the soul can't get tired, the soul is is energy. Mhm. Right? So, when we're in conflict, that's when the soul is not flowing through the body. But when we're at peace, then the soul flows through the body and we feel energized. Right. Wow. It really went full circle. Yeah, we did. We came all the way back to the beginning like any good symphony. Incredible. Thank you. That was really cool. Thank you so much. Okay. I could thank you a million. Yeah, no problem. All right, that was awesome. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. All right. Have a good Shabbos. All right. I don't know if we have any other callers, but I'm going to I think that's enough as far as phone calls. You so Are we Are we okay with that being the last call? I think so. Okay. I think I think we're done with calls. I could sing if you guys want me to sing. We have a custom around here. After the show is over, I start singing. Um Yeah, he said it all says yeah, we're done. That was a great call. And Mama is amazing. Someone's writing in the chat, great point expressing the feminine is not the same as sexuality. Profound observation, I couldn't agree more. That's correct. That's why there's a term sexualizing. What does that mean? It means to um attribute sexual importance to something that in isn't inherently so. Yeah, agree with you. Michael says I should definitely sing. Michael's my voice coach. And he says to sing and I think that I'm going to trust him. Cuz he knows what he's talking about. I think You know I think I sing at the end cuz I I I I've said this before and I'll say it again, I'm not under any illusion that I'm a good singer. But I think it's catharsis for me. Because when I talk to people, it I don't want to say it's unpleasant. Like this call was not unpleasant at all. That was a really like amazing caller. Um but it does I do pick up stuff. Like cuz the degree of empathy that's involved in trying to live somebody's story like that, I absorb all this stuff and then like I got to unload it. So like the singing offloads it. I think. I think that's what's happening. That's my theory. I think that's what happens. Um Yeah. I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I Yeah. Yeah, I do think it's healing. I do think that it helps me to get settled. Okay. Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, children of all ages. I'm going to have some in uh exciting news soon, God willing, about Lag Baomer. But I'm not ready to give it yet. But God willing, soon going to make some announcements about Lag Baomer. How we're going to observe Lag Baomer in a meaningful way, in a special way, in a in an unprecedented way. But I'm not ready to talk about it. Okay. Everyone remember count Sefirah? Last night was like 18. Okay. All right, ladies and gentlemen, I think we are done. I think we did an awesome job. Congratulations everyone who took part in this. You You were all um indispensable. And I do believe that. I really do believe that. Maybe this sounds like I'm trying to flatter you, but I believe that when we have something like this, it's a product of the combined energy. And that's not just me and the person who's on the call, or even me and the person on the call, and the people who are typing in the comments, in the chat. But I really do believe everyone who's watching this, and even in a way that transcends time limitations. I even think the people who will watch this later. Like this is live right now, but someone will watch it tomorrow or in a week or in a month. I believe that everyone who is energetically connected to this experience is bringing something to it that creates the uniqueness of this experience. So that's why I say thank you for everyone who participated because you're responsible for making it what it is, really and truly. Okay. Yeah, make a bracha achrona. Someone's writing in the comments, yeah. Make a bracha achrona. All right.