Menachos 65

Today's is and we are at the top of Mishna. So the topic of the sixth peris is the carbon which was primarily a carbon thus it's a also known as the so the is discussed in very great detail in par. It's actually tucked away right in middle of the paray. So the Torah talks about the of PES and right after the of P the P says as follows. So we going to come to says the you should cut the you should take an literally means an amount. It's a the first thing that you cut and you should give it to the what does the do? He brings item and he does. When does he do this? And these are the magic words. the the day after and the continues together with this with the of was brought. Additionally, there was a so the says the day after you're supposed to take it's made up of a and you're supposed to bring it says the car. This is a very very important I say and very controversial whether it's or it's not but once upon a time this was certainly very very profound and that is the Torah says that before this carbon was brought you weren't allowed to eat not caramel you weren't allowed to eat from the any new grains until the carbon was brought then the says says that from the time that you bring this you should count how much how many days do you count seven weeks in total it's going to be that you counted 50 days it's really 49 days they and then at the end of the 49 days meaning on the 50th day you should bring another carbon. And then the Torah describes that second carbon that's supposed to be brought. It's made up of two breads. It's the topic of so many of the that we've learned over the last couple of weeks. And the Torah again in great detail describes the carbon that were brought on the carbon of the and then at the very end the Tyra mentions the of very very doesn't say anything about Tyra. It says And then finally, very mysteriously, the terror throws in one more. You should know I'm talking about bringing all these different you're bringing from the and then you're going to bring that's also says there's something called there's something called regardless these over here in paras are theim that make up the source to the carbon But within this para you have two additional very important paras. You have the paras. You also have the para of so what was the was it was brought me and the reason it was so important is because the says you were not allowed to eat from the until the carbon was born. It's interesting the carbon is mentioned in par as well but the talks about the so the mentions it says if you're going to bring if you remember we had a whole last week but regardless the here is talking about it refers to it as So what's the it means and the reason it's called because if you think about it the carbon was very similar to what was just like there's a concept of you take your first born so the what do you do you give to the kay even a forborn child you're supposed to give to the kay that's why you do so you shouldn't have to give the child to the kay you ped for five But the point is there's a concept of racial there's a concept of that permeates many mitzvah in the is really a in the laws of the because that's what you're doing you're taking the and instead of keeping it for yourself you're going ahead and you're giving it to the kite and a classic says that with this point you could understand why the very mysteriously at right at the end of that throws in the of and throws in the of he says the terror is coming to say that even if a person spends his 9 to5 at the job and he he does what he needs to do but at the same time his should be surrounded with and he says that's what the terra is telling you the says the first thing you do you're a farmer you work the field the primary source of income even once upon a time was farmers right we all wore overalls once upon a time but either way that's the way it once was right So the first thing is what are you supposed to do? That's the carbon that goes to then there's something called is the guide the way you're supposed to be and then finally when you're done says the talks about the so you should be with mitzvah the beginning of your work in middle of the day and then at the end. So literally from 9 to 5 you're surrounded you start with the which is the carbon then you have that's as you're being and then when all is said and done you have regardless this is the introduction to the carbon but there's one other important thing that we need to speak out and then the daf is going to flow and that is the never said when you're supposed to bring the carbon t makes a very big deal about the carbon there's so many in the tra a very rich para here tucked away in the middle of the parad. You read this, this is creates a butra doesn't say when you're supposed to do it. In fact, what the does say is it's supposed to be which literally sounds like on Sunday. So, pick a Sunday that's convenient where the weather's supposed to be good and that's when you're supposed to do it. So what does Shabas mean? There was a mus between the pushian and the bus the pushian were of the opinion that means that was the messiah from going back to that it's referring to the day after pes and in fact the yont that's mentioned right before this par here in par in the parad is the y of pes so after the first day of pes after the first day of pes in other words the second day of pes on the calendar there's mitzvah to bring the carbon. So what was the carbon brought? It was shabas. Shabas over here is a code word. What it really means is the second day of pes and which is the first day of that's when the was brought the busimum disagreed. Busum said it sounds to us like is supposed to be on a Sunday. So they said it's the Sunday after pes starts. So if pes is shabas that's the first day then it's going to be Sunday. But let's say Pes was on Tuesday. Let's say it was on Wednesday. Then it's not going to be then you're going to have to count whenever exactly it's going to be. So it's going to be around P time but it's not the second day of PES meaning the day after the first day of PES but rather it's a Sunday regardless with that backdrop you begin to talk to. So what was the process of cutting this? So the Tory says that so the itself was a mitzvah. What was the process of would go on? So this is and they would make they would tie the that they were going to be cutting. Now they were going to be cutting the the carbon was going to be brought the next day. All carbon have to be brought during the day. With regards to the can actually bring a PK that it had to be brought during the day but the mitzvah of that didn't have to be during the day that was done at night and there was such a a took place over here that they would prep the so like this they can just go and they can cut it. So how did they prep it? They prepped it by identifying exactly what's going to be cut and they would tie it with anybody that was able to come and attend this cutting this ceremony was encouraged to come. The reason was because they wanted it to be a grace. They wanted a big toml as soon as it got dark meaning the and as we're going to see soon one of the three that cut the the would turn to the yidden that were there and would say did the sun set meaning it's already it's 72 we could start cutting they would say yesh they would ask it the other kind would ask the same question the mission doesn't mention the third kind but there was a third kany as well. So there were three khan that would ask the question and as long as the yidden would answer in the affirmative yes yes yes then they would move forward and then they would continue. They would say should we use this mangle this sickle is is this okay to use. Should we put it into this koopa after we cut it? If let's say it was Shabas, this was they would say yeah on this Shabas we could do it should we cut they would say yeah point is you get the gist right so every would say this and by the way so it's a little confusing here but basically what's happening is there's three that are saying this and each is saying it three times So everything was said nine times shabazoo shaboo nine times because three are saying it and each is saying it three times and the Mishna asks the very obvious question the question we're all asking why says this was and we wanted that it should be an as people should be there and we're going to make a big fuss about it a fuss that really didn't have to be made. We could have done this a little bit more. No, but we da want to make a big tummu because there there was a whole k a whole group of Jews that were of the opinion that this was not the way it was supposed to be done and really it was supposed to be done on a Sunday. So we want to show that we're not doing it on Sunday. We're doing it because our means the day after the first day of PES and to emphasize this point. This is what we just like you find in the beginning of this is a very very similar concept. It's not but rather it's so we'll get back to the some hashtag rest of the story in a moment. Let's just learn a little bit of the following are days because of something very good that happened to the Jews on those days and some of these days is even more not only can you fast but if somebody who dies and there's you can't make a one of those days from until the eth day of Nissan he took him to the carbon was established meaning it was established that the carbon here to forward would be brought in the proper way and it's for that reason it was a it was like a miniature and and it's for that reason no on that day from the day of until after it was during those days that the of when exactly is supposed to be celebrated was established properly and as a result the changed the g and it's for that reason that you're not let fast. Rashi says you could make a hesp But you're not let fast on the day. What happened? What it means the carbon was established during the first eight days of used to say that if a wants to donate the carbon he could bring the what was their basis for what they said sounds like even is able to bring the carbon so that we're of the opinion that if somebody wants to donate he comes to the mikt writes $180 check says I want you the next is on me. It was okay. That was something that was what did the meaning apparently this was an 8-day debate and then finally it was established what was the final argument that was that eventually reigned. They said and we learn from and again this is something that we're very familiar with right everybody knows that the once upon a time and there was a mikdash there was a mitzvah essay for every single Jew from the age of 20 to 60 mitzvah but there was an idea to give a purpose in a was to buy the carbon sour such as the Tid such as the musafen the carbon that were brought on Yv and the reason it was done that way was so that every should have a he should have shears in the carbon that were being brought. So the way every member of the was by contributing and you contributed a that we give today is a for the we once gave because the real wasn't just a mitzvah you know give a $150 and and the stock should go to somebody no this was money that was given to the bikto these were it was like a tax but the point was so that every year should have a look at the carbon and carb money see what had to be brought by the you were not allowed to go and a big vir couldn't show up at the mikd and and write a check and say I want to pay I want to cover the doesn't work that way the had to be paid for by each individual apparently the didn't agree it's went back and forth eight days which eight days the first eight days of and as a result it was listed as one of the many that once upon a time existed okay and then from the eighth day until Y they establish of and therefore and that too is a Y it's not as big a Y but it's a Y as well fast on those days what happened but used to say that always falls out on a Sunday how do you know that there was nobody that knew I was like I don't know we never thought of that connected was and he answered and he said you know okay he knew that it's one day the whole is only one day so what he did was he made fall out on a Sunday it's like this you can have a a two day you know once told me that he thinks the reason is you have two days yontiff and it's only one says the rewarding because they support I mean from but the point is right there's there's merit to the to the thought the but so this is what he told him he says no I'm tell always falls out on a Sunday it's like this you can have a two day also want to have a two-day it's like this you can end up having a a two-day guy told this by he says if really loved the Jews so much maybe you could explain this to me there 11 days from the promised land what took so long so why did it take 40 years in so thei this turns to he tells him this is come on You know that we we all know what happened. They were in the for 40 years. Not because didn't love the Jews. I told him, "Of course I know I'm telling you something silly. But the reason I'm saying something silly to you, says Rashi, is because you said something silly to me. What I'm saying is as what you're saying. You're coming here with and says it's supposed to fall out on a Sunday. That's absolutely ridiculous. Now the truth is let's take a step back. What was the basis? What was the the scriptural source for what this busi was saying? It was the Pik the Pik says that you're supposed to bring the carbonas and then you're supposed to count 49 days and on the 50th day which is again going to be do the math right 50 days after will be Shabas again and that's when you're going to celebrate the so they by sus means Sunday 50 days from Sunday is going to be a Sunday again. So the bottom line is that's how I know that it's that's how I know that it's supposed to be on a Sunday of course had the of the from which doesn't mean Sunday means the second day of P it means doesn't matter if it's a Monday Tuesday Wednesday Thursday or Friday or Sunday but it doesn't have to be a Sunday but the question was is there a scriptural source to the argument of the push and this is told him, he says, "I'm going to prove it to you from the I'll prove to you from the that I'm right." One Pik says, and another says, "So one says you're supposed to count 50 days." And again, it's not 50 days. It's really 49 days. Incidentally, if you take a look at the top right here, we're not going to go into it, but the top asks that if the Torah says this, then why do we only count 49 days? So Tyra says in the in the PK that although the Tyra says but the way you're supposed to read it just push it the way you read the P is not count 50 days and then the following day celebrate and bring the but rather count 49 days the 50th day is the day that you're supposed to bring. That's different than for example when the terrorist says give 40 mal and we know it's only 39 say that you see from there the of the that the can sometimes trump the came along and they said it's not 40 it's really 39 this is different this doesn't fall into the same category over here when the says take a look at brings one of is the is telling you that on the 50th he's supposed to count 40 But the point that says you're supposed to count 49 days. Another Pik says it's seven full weeks. What's the ste in one place it sounds like just any random 49 days to seems to suggest a full week. A full week starts on Sunday and it ends on Shabas and then you go through the end of the week, right? That's what a week is. So is it a full week or seven full weeks or is it just 49 days? It doesn't matter if it starts in the middle of the week seems to be must be it could be either one. If a Sunday says it's going to be if falls out on a Tuesday then it's not going to be then it's going to be but to the instead of us arguing over silly arguments you're going to tell me that you think means Sunday because then will fall out on a Sunday and who loves the Jews he wants to have a two-day come on that's not the way we're going to reconcile this argument the way we're going to reconcile this argument is with and I'm telling like me this sounds like any 49 days as long as they're in succession but starting even from a Tuesday to me sounds like it has to start on a sense before we go v and the Gmorra is going to go from here and bring many many many many scriptural rias to the pushim not like the busim let's just give a little bit of an introduction who exactly were the busim so we're familiar with the come up throughout this that that's something that is feature theim aren't mentioned as much but the truth is that the history of the are very much interrelated and really it begins with an the right in the beginning of when it discusses the was from the he used to say And he had a that he gave over histo's name was used to say it's the third office says that had many many amongst his Many there was a fellow named and another fellow named and when they heard say this don't serve Hashem because of that you're waiting to get one day you should see yourself like who's not getting paid who doesn't get a paycheck who does his work 100% and who this was that made it the office. this was part and parcel of his this is what he was always teaching his and they heard it again and again and again and then something for some reason clicked in them that made them think you know something maybe the Rebi keeps on saying this not because he wants us to have a certain mindset in terms of how he wants to serve Hashem but maybe because there really is no reward and maybe he's telling us because frankly there's not going to be an award and one thing led to another and by the time they were done they boyfriend and they left the fold and they started mo movements respectively. Saltics started a movement known as the Sudokin. Bis started a movement that would later be known as the Busen says that like many movements like the movement of at the time of Bis's life they re they really have that much of a following. Didn't take too much root started off with a with a minion of of followers. But as the years went on the movement of the tadikim and the busim became stronger and stronger. And if you read Bengorian also known as Josephas he talks so much about the saddest doesn't talk a lot about the busim I don't know if he mentions the busim but he talks a lot about theim about the saddest and they were a very very very big deal and you see in the very big deal you see kazal went out of their way with the why were we so worried about them because obviously they they were a real movement and and the spent a lot of time and a lot of energy to defeat the eventually they were defeated but but it took up a lot of time during the the tufa of regardless those were the busimum. Now it's interesting sometimes you find the mentioned and sometimes you find the basusa mentioned in this that we just learned now on you have one that talks about the first eight days of Nissan are were a minant and then the next several days were a minant as well the first eight days because they defeated the to establish the carbon and then the next week or so was a yontiff because they defeated the busim with regards to the yim of you see the busim even though they're synonymous with each other they come together very often but they're clearly not the same what exactly the difference was so we'll have to leave that up for the historians to figure out but it's not so clear what the difference was between the and the what it is clear they were not the same movement but I tell you one interesting thing the truva so at the very end in perur it's every ra is classic but the ra in the end of every ra every has a sticker but the ra the end of he talks about the the premier way of how you're supposed to serve Hashem and he talks about serving and says the rabb here's the punch line to so after the talks about a person shouldn't serve not for reward even it should be this is what used to tell in short says the that's the translation of that. So the Rama brings the it's the third it's but the Rama prefaces it by saying two lines says, "You know why the Rambam goes out of his way to say that would only tell this Mishna over to they didn't tell to everybody? It was something that was said for people that can handle it. It wasn't meant for public consumption." You know why? Because because look what happened to who clearly were not on the pay grade where they were able to handle this. For that reason the Rambam wrote not for everybody because not everybody is ready to handle this. It's interesting that the Mishna says then the Mishna says so in the past we've spoken out but I was thinking maybe that's what the mission means to say but this is the got people into trouble and that's why the Ram says says not everybody was supposed to have it. So says the what's the what's the very simple I'm telling you something but make sure you keep your because this Mishna actually caused others to lose their regardless the a very big deal tell you the I saw in the he brings from the so the brings that when we count so the first day that we count is then you know is is a rashi famously asks why it should have said that would be the proper grammar. So why is it says and that's why he says I'll ask you the same when we count why do we say it should be if it's going to be right in the beginning of safe and gracious so why do we say so he said because if you would say on that one day what does sound like it's sound like it's Sunday you don't even want to say so you say notic either way and had a chuva he told this that I'm going to prove you wrong and he proved him wrong by reconciling this apparent contradiction between tupsukim that describe the mitzvah of on the one hand it says it sounds like any 49 days on the other hand it says it sounds like it has to be seven complete weeks and the only way it makes sense is if there's two sometimes it's sometimes it's only 49 days if the on counting on a Sunday it's going to be if not it's going to be the middle of the week regardless this is one of many many that's going to take us 23 of the way down to so we'll start the we'll finish it tomorrow said and there's a lot of issues with the in this you have to hold on tighter says you didn't need to prove this wrong from it's more it says that now this is actually not in it's in but it's also talking about the and it says over there we learn from this that we're dealing with a that's skip to Yeshua I'm But the point is says it sounds like the should start depending on a day that's controls the month. They don't control the days of the week. doesn't decide when it's shabas, but decides when it's how so because decides when it's based on that they'll they're indirectly deciding when it's so if it says so it sounds like means after a day that has some control over it must be we're talking about which is something that indirectly controls as opposed to shabas which is something they have no control over says the said you should count days and then make And the Torah also said count days 49 days and then it should be just like right around time. You already know it's going to be because how did they know it was you saw it the moon disappears at the end of the month and then as soon as they saw so they knew that it was so it was has to be as well. So that only works if we're going to go based on the month because if you're going to go based on the day after PES, so as soon as it's PES, you're always going to know when you're supposed to start counting. But if it's the day after the shabas after pes so it's not so intrinsically th that's what Yeshua said that's the means after pes because everybody knows when the first day pes is similar to the fact that people see the so it's saying oh today's pes oh tomorrow right that's the way it is you know when you're counting sphere when it's pes oh today is p tomorrow you're counting but if it's going to be the Sunday then you already have to start holding it's the day after that it's Regardless that was a fourth and you bring just like when you bring it's and it's also the beginning of is one day so too you're supposed to bring the carbon on but which according to the it's always going to be it's always going to be the second day Whereas according to it's not always necessarily going to be says again in the context of it says in the context of the just like over there it's here too with regards to the carbon it's to be very similar to the previous take a look at rash not sure I understand 100% the difference between the two but regardless it's very very similar in that we're dealing with that regardless we have five over here in this bryer from the zak we have we have we have we have that all brought this is of course a messiah but they all had mccaris in the itself to prove that we're supposed count meaning not on the first Sunday that follows now is going to bring another that's going to bring a whole another list of in the how exactly you know means so we're not going to go through the whole we'll pick that up tomorrow morning but just to pick up now the first line of the B we'll speak out some rate on that so following the bringing of the carbon yet count 49 days says the it says why come to emphasize that everybody's supposed to count if you took take a look at the one line everybody's obligated to count what would have been the not everybody's obligated to count so already addresses the question says that being that you find The says and means has an obligation to count. So there would have been that maybe it's that has the obligation to count maybe not everybody's obligated to count maybe it's says it says in the it says that's over here it says what's the emphasis of that it's not obligation but every single has his own individual obligation to count stating that there's another and that is the raja and the raj the chuva says an unbelievable it's like the he says you know what the emphasis of is that every we know that anytime there's a mitzvah to say something you don't have to say it you can hear somebody else say it say amen and you can be with what we know as so for example Friday night you can be ydesh with somebody You don't have to hear your own as long as you say what if you weren't in the end of but this is that something called and it's something that we all rely on on a regular basis could be so you're going to count the night of the and I'm going to listen to what you said and I'll be with your sphere. says, "No, that's this." Not that everybody's obligated to count. Of course, everybody's obligated to count. That's not I don't need the word to teach me that there's an obligation is coming to teach me that every single person needs to count on his own. that you cannot be even though ordinarily in there's a concept called but when it comes to there's no such concept of it's interesting this is brought down in the beginning brings this says second supposed to do it right away right after but if you didn't do it you have the whole night to do says there's a mitzvah for every to says says it sounds like sphere is different than ordinary the you have to count by yourself. And if you don't count by yourself, you can't be that when it says that every person is doesn't mean that you have to count by yourself as opposed to works then it's as if you counted. So that's not what it means. What it means is that is not up. Who's the other that's so regardless the learned it in this these two in now it's interesting this is with regards to the actual counting of the sphere what about the what about the could you be and that comes in handy if you ever forget to count and now you have a suffix because really it's So clear that if you miss one night that you're not allowed to count with a bra anymore. It's really a suffic. So you essentially have a suffic. What's the let somebody else be invites you but we just said that it's not so could be there's no so what would be the that's the whole issue of regarding is with regards to the actual sphere. But as it relates to the mitzvah of there's no difference between the and any ordinary and of course that you would be able to read in fact if you look at right here in he brings that the is and it's the proper thing to do is to have one person make the mitzvah and everybody else should be with him and the reason is says you want precedence for this take a look the the laws of and over there the says that when it comes to making the one person should make the he should be mighty everybody else which is of course the you don't make your own but you say to the and you do that why what's the reason for it so the say because so there's actually an idea of to have one person be might see other people. So says it's true with regards to the actual sphere that's already it could be that even though the but it comes to this there's not going to be but that's only with regards to the sphere itself but as it relates to the to the contrary it makes sense for one person. So if seemingly suggesting that the should get up after he says the and then everybody else will just say amen and gives you less incentive not to miss but everybody else will say amen and like this you have no problems so you'll you'll make this but then just adds one line he says sends you to the mid if you take a look at the mid the mits says that the minute you saw was not that way and so brings that even though it's that this regarding is only talking about the spirit it's not talking about the but at the at the same time the is read it to you and the is this that was being but the question is is is very very obvious So it's brings it that even though but when it comes to there's no and the reason is because it says two understandings in the what exactly that means but according to one and the way the understood so that would seem to make it the is you can't be the question If ordinarily if there's ever a that's you could be that was a pun then why is it that you can't be the there's a lot of that all really hinge on the same idea which is that the mitzvah is not a mitzvah to recite the day of the meaning it's not a mitzvah but it's a mitzvah the sphere and counting and talking are not the same thing. You can be talking with you can't be counting. But I'll tell you something that I saw in the that's the and he brings what he refers to as a in the again why is it that this when it comes to the mitzvah of and that is based on something that is brought down in the safaris was one of the and and the says as follows. So somehow the in the words of that it's not enough to say but it has to be has a that it has to be based on that the raid by between the goes up to could one say the other with or no? Does each have to do it by himself? Is there or not? One of the writing benefits that came along with going after. He was he was so just obviously we're talking about right he was if you're then you're nice anyways every is supposed to be nice because really is like every other mitzvah that's and that was the minute one person one would get up and he would be mighty all the so who had the to be the one to say it and everybody else is just saying it was the one that was and he's the one that's going to be he's the one that's argued he vehemently argued with and he said he said you know why because the says that has to be it's not enough that the gets up you know the scream they're supposed to they're supposed to scream it has to be have to say that it's as if I said it. But is it rum? I'm not making any noise. How could it be? That's not and really it's totally in the lness of how works is that when I hear what you're saying to your so whatever you did through my it's as if I did so even though you're talking I'm so to speak even though you're the one that's talking I'm also talking I'm a or is the Not that I'm a divor but ordinarily in order to talk you have to talk over here you can be a just by being but the it's the so to speak ordinarily that so is my or my is really your it's just through my that I'm aber if there's the din if the is that I have your debbur if your debra was bor why shouldn't I have the bor but if the ver is is that I don't have your I have my own debra my debra was my so it's very nice is a but it's not because you're not making any noise it reminds me that you know by when we land the migill so everybody says right everybody says it so why does everybody say it why can't you be with everything else So Frank said, you know why? says that it has to be you can't get with says the deeper that you can get with but that you can't get that could be that is like it's like it has to be whenever there's a you can't be here too you wouldn't be able to be either either And tomorrow we'll speak at a lot more raid regarding spheros.