Menachos 82

Today's daff is pay and we are eight lines from the bottom of alfid. So again the topic is the carbonid. The carbon was a carbon with unique characteristics. Number one whereas as old the carbon was additionally the carbonid was brought together with breads also known as the 40 breads. It was really four minim each min was made up of notes but rather of the 40 breads 10 of them were 30 of them were so the Mishna and onto had discussed whether it's okay for a person to fulfill his obligation to bring using my so if I have my sheni can I now take my sheni and use it to bring again what's my mi is one of the types it's one of the maesters depending on the year in the cycle that a yid was obligated to give stating that it was different than shuma it was different than mser different than bikurin different than kala in the sense that didn't have to be given to a it didn't have to be given to a lei what the yid had to do was he had to take his mseni set it aside bring it to yushai and eat it in yushai So all of So just because I have a feel that doesn't mean I'm living in I could be living in but what I'm obligated to do is take my go to and in the is where I was supposed to eat my mi what happens if it was difficult for me to take my and bring it to Jerusaleam by the time I'll be able to make it there when I go to begle the next time the food's already going to spoil. So the Tyra gives us a plan B. You're allowed to take the and transfer the kadusha onto money. It's what's known as it had to happen da outside your has its own. But the point is a person was able to take the he transferred over the money. What do you do with the money? You take the money, you bring it to the money doesn't spoil and you buy food. It's a Mishna. It's in the aravan from all places that discusses what foods you're allowed to buy with mosseni. But the point is that mseni you really had one of two options either take the masheni itself bring it to your that seems to be the preferable option and eat it over there. If it's too difficult to do that, you have a plan B. You could be p the which means transfer the kadusha from the onto the money. Take the money and bring it up to. So the question is if somebody has for example that's and he wants to use those to satisfy his obligation of was made from wheat. He wants to use his wheat that's and use it. So that was the topic of the Mishna and the Mishna said really it depends on whether the person who's bringing this carbon had obligated himself to bring the carbon using the magic words alive or whether he had used the words. If he set a ray that means he created a he now the person has an obligation to bring a carbon so much so that if he sets aside one animal as a a carbon if he sets aside breads or wheat that he's going to use for the carbon and then later something happens to it as the Mishna says in the first par of migillah being that he now has a to bring a carbon we look at his obligation to bring the carpent as a and as a rule We'll see more about it at the latter part of today's d that being that is he would not be able to fulfill his obligation using if he'd never said but rather what he said was so then the is he never obligated himself from the gra perspective all he said was is that this animal should be aid these wheat should be over there the is that if he would say that at least At least at first glance, it would seem to appear that it would be okay. The is you would be able to fulfill your obligation. Stating that the Mishna said that it could be if he specifically says that he wants to bring a and he's going to bring it then it's going to be okay to bring and that's where we pick up. The Mishna said he if the person specifically said that I want to bring it meaning the carbon and its breads then seems to say you should bring it says the you have to bring iter the fact that he said he's going to bring him should allow him to bring him the word seems to suggest you have to bring him it doesn't mean he has to what it means is he So not he has to bring him in but rather he can bring him in but certainly he doesn't have to bring him then the said that even when it's okay whatever the circumstances are to bring a carbon from you're never allowed to use the actual that grew in the ground that had theious what you'd be allowed to do is is take and buy and use But to actually use the that's not something that's okay. So if you want to use the it's never going to be okay. Meaning even when it's okay to use you can never use the itself. That was the last line of the mish. What you would have to do is is take or take whatever the mi is transfer it onto the money then using even though they both have the same but still as we'll see soon it's only from a that even when it's okay to use to buy it's never the itself it's only the money says of when we say that it's not okay to use it means that grew itself. What would be if somebody had he transferred the onto money he used the money to buy not intending to use those and then later he says you know what I have an obligation to bring a carbon let me use that has because I bought it using to fulfill my obligation said that's going to be okay and Even though at the end of the day I'm using but when the Mishna says it means the original is it's something that grows it's fu it's something that has a so we say you can use it means the original but if I'm using but it's not the original I had my I transferred it onto money then I used the money to buy so at the end of the day I'm in the same place I have what we would know is that I would be able to use was sitting in front of and he told the same exact when the says you can't use it means means the original but if you use then it's going to be okay was he said I disagree You can't even use. So just to stop one second. If you can't use what can you use, we're saying you could use to buy. But if you're telling me that is like the itself, then what can you use? The mission said you can't use you can use what are you going to do? You're going to take the money you're going to buy. You're going to end up with said what it means is very simple. What is saying is that when the Misha says you can use my it means you have and you go and buy the with the intent to use it for the that's okay. But if I take and I buy not with the intent of using but with the intent of just transferring the kadusha from the to the and then afterwards I want to use the that's not okay. So again if I'm going to take the grew in the ground and I'm going to use that that's the you for sure can't use. If I have and I buy the with the intent of using it that I certainly can use that's also the chimed in as well discussed this is what would be if I had and I bought not with the intent of using it for so now I have and I want to use the form so it's not the original that grew in the ground it's also So not where I'm using to buy the I have that I want to stick in an oven right now and stop baking that's between he said I respectfully disagree but at the same time let me explain your and let me explain my first I'm going to explain your first explain his again what was histo It's only the actual that grew in the ground that's not okay. But if you took you bought even though you didn't buy it with the intention of using so right now you technically have regular albeit not that grew in the ground is that you would be able to use he said because what's the use to buy wheat to fulfill your obligation? It's learned out from how do you know that you're allowed to use to fulfill an obligation of a carbon? It's learned out from but at the end of the day the use to fulfill your carbon is based on the fact that there's a connection between the says there's four types of schlan one of which is a carbon. is a schlam it's not just learned out from it's a a subcategory of but the bottom line is it all comes from when we say that you could use to fulfill an obligation of a carbon so somebody said and or he wants to fulfill his obligation of schlim using in a case where it' be okay work out the the fine print it's it's okay for me to now use my macheni for a garbage is it possible to use the actual macheni for the no is something that grows in the ground is an animal. So it's just physically it's not the same thing. So that's certainly not going to be possible. It's based on that we learn the even though practically speaking I could use the because part of the carbonid is bread which comes from wheat that does grow in the ground but at the same time I learned from that just just like when we say it's okay to use the miceer also is going to be so said if you took and you bought that is not I mean the whole reason that you can't use the is because the you could use from you can't use the actual micer. So by you can't use the actual micer but in your case is talking you took the you want to use that is not I think it would be okay. So that's time let me explain to you my position again. How do you know? You're allowed to use forl. How do I know? What you're going to use is going to be something that's not the min. Not only by schlub can you use the micer. You can't use something that's the same min as the messer, the same species as the messer. Because at the end of the day is an animal. And the micer is something that grows in the ground. So it can't be from the miniser. You can use at the end of the day the fact that you can use to fulfill your obligation of carbon from by a carbon you can't use the min of the you can't use the actual so the question is when we relate it to how far do we relate it to they held we relate it to just like you can't use the actual you can't use the actual but as long as it's not the actual even though it's the same min as the original musheni nobody cares that would be enough for me to use it so I can't use the actual that grew in the ground but I can use as long as it didn't grow in the ground whereas held that you learn from schlim even more than that bylim not only can't I use the actual sheni I can't even use the min of the mseni because there's no way to take the min of the mseni use it for because the min of the meni is a do that grew in the ground whereas the is an animal so Do we learn that you can't use anything that's thus you can't use for the carbon not that grew in the ground and not even that was bought with a new topic if somebody has money and he says this $100 that I have I want to use to bring a carbon to that gets it gets the question is what happens if somebody has and He says that I want this that I have what's the you bring it to your you buy food incidentally the you know what you're supposed to do with so this isn't just like a random case what happens once upon a time there was a person up this is actually he's following the he called his rabbi told him this is what you're supposed to do so he has money he knows he's going up to and he's going to bring a carbish so but he says already before he goes I want this mo to be used for for the question is is it right now on this money or is it not? So Ra said it's not we'll see soon it's a real discussion but said to me it's simple if somebody has and he says I want this money to be used to buy because over here the money is not the money has the Yeah. Then this declaration that I want to use this money for would create a on the money. But when the money already is it already has I would need a really really serious to be on top of this is not strong enough. And as a result from and really the proper way to learn these next few lines of Garra is with a fiveminut background but we'll do what we do. If somebody has he goes up to and he takes the money and he buys a a kosher and he says I want to use this as a carbon. Now this person's an because we know that you can't put on the so obviously he could buy I mean that's technically theoretically maybe on some level okay but is certainly not okay or he says he's going to buy and he's going to use which is also wrong because ideally if you're buying a you're supposed to buy a carbon like we mentioned earlier but the bottom line is let's focus on the first is the the skin of this doesn't go and again in the context of the introduction that we didn't speak out this makes a lot of sense either way says the what does that sound like it sounds like it's now on this it's just the go but for sure this kadusha which kadusha kadusha what's the kasha It sounds like this. Now this all it has is a den of the reason it has a den of is because the you all you theoretically did was transferred the kadusha from the onto the right transfers. So you started off you had wheat that had then you transferred it over the money. Now you took the money you bought a can't be as a result the has in it of some sort for it can go in. So in theory it's like and you're telling me that means so you see clearly that's all we need from this. So even though money but not a money that already has the says clearly that if you took you which essentially means that now this has in the sense it's like ship that's really all it is doesn't have any like all it has is is and you're telling me which means really it's not the whole thing is it means something else what it means is there's not even on this animal sheni as much as it transfers and transfers and transfers But you have to read the fine print. It doesn't always transfer. And if you take and you buy with it something that you had no right to buy the will not transfer. And when the says it doesn't mean that it's not just the opposite. It's the opposite side of the spectrum. Means it's it's has no at all. It's not not it doesn't even have it has absolutely zero. Why doesn't it have to do because it never transferred because you bought something you had no right to buy explains and just like if somebody buys a moi right and you decide you're going to buy a business with it you can't do that you have to buy food that's the whole idea you ask your accountant but I mean you have to buy food so if you bought a then it the kadisha wouldn't even transfer that's what happened over here being that you bought a ka that doesn't transfer but at the end of the day could be direct. He's not from this. So again was that even though if somebody's said what said but both and are arguing with the great because said that even Conor explains according to that holds that is so for example a man who has right good what happens if somebody has moien he transfers over to money he has a draw he keeps his sheni money has $1,000 sitting there now he wants to get married he has to buy a diamond ring so could he use his moseni to buy a ring to go over to his wife and say I read is that something that's okay so really what it depends on is is he a 100% bum on this money or is there any right the the barometer always used to determine basis is could you be mad with it if you could be mad with it it means you're a full-fledged bum if you can't be mad with it you're not a full-fledged B so it's raud holds a man can be mad with mo holds a man cannot be madish with The discusses this at length and the says the beer says that holds is thus the full on it. I can do whatever I want with it. I can even with it holds no it has kadusha because it has kadusha it's not everybody agrees it has kadusha. The question is at the end of the day is a mid or is good. So the says really should be telling the according to that holds out his m says the it's that it's in the sense everybody should agree that if you're now on top of it it should be who says that says who's that and re law they hold this is ra 101 ra says it's m goaya so if it's m goaya how's it been again it already has it already has kadusha how's it going to be that says that no it is even according to at the end of the day you agree you agree that you can use to buy carbon that's the topic of the D that's the if it's learned from you can use the to buy so at the end of the day can convert into when you actually buy the question is is when you declare that you're going to use the money to buy the is it already at that point or not so says I hear what you're saying you're telling me that maybe according to mayor that my is maybe it shouldn't be on the money that has The problem with the logic said is that at the end of the day you see that my at some point will convert into when you actually buy the so being that at some point it definitely can convert why can't it convert on the money level as well says I'll ask you a cash when you're if somebody has and he now wants to be Like the Tory says you can do you have to beh the same is true if somebody's mish something and he wants to be the we're applicable you have to be it's only when the owner does it that you have to be but there's an idea that if the owner himself wants to be his or his he has to be he has to be actually I have a ber that says if somebody had and he was he said I'm going to use this to buy now he wants to says when it comes to you have to be not one but two why because the money has two and what do you see from here that it was so isn't that gave gives the obvious answer already established that nobody was arguing who hold that you could the fact that you found a that says that it's nobody's arguing with that that could very easily be going according to that price can very easily be going according to they said their according to so before we go v I just wanted to go back and really do part two of three of some of the raid that we didn't speak got yesterday. So in yesterday's datar had discussed a case where somebody had a carbon and then he took another animal and he said so he had a tida and he had a tida and then one of the animals died. He doesn't know which one died. So he's left with one animal. He doesn't know if this animal was a tida or if this animal is a turida and it's a big problem because a tida needs to auras cannot have. said that that reverbated throughout the and and apparently made a tremendous tuml in the and that was there's no way to bring this animal. You have a that you're not going to be allowed to put on. There's no way to be ma it's a very very big problem because to bring it with bread maybe it's a tida to bring it without bread maybe it's a real said there's no way to do it clarified is really only true if the person said it's not true if he said and then the brought eight on eight potential ways to technically circumvent this issue the last one involved where you would bring two additional animals with 80 regrets, you'd be mafish them and you would come up with some sort of loophole to somehow work around this issue and the Gumar said that this idea was presented once to Ravina when he was in Damurya and Ravina told him that it doesn't work because the Gmorra without going into the technicalities of it would involve somebody getting up now and saying and said to go up and say is not an option because you're not going to just go ahead and make a frivolous nether are something that we're very much discouraged by said it's better not to make a nether than to make a nether and and even fulfill your we don't want you to make a so the presented to ra involved going ahead and saying we do not make we do not say we spoke yesterday that really this is a mishna in says if somebody makes a nether using the it's a nether if he uses the it's not a nether make don't make bottom line is there's an idea said even though here you're doing this right you're making a there's a there's a reason to do it doesn't matter ra at the end of the day it does not work. So we mentioned that as much as something that's frowned upon and Rea didn't even want to do it to this carbon so that you should be able to put the the animal that has on there are times where it's clear from that it is okay to make an we mentioned yesterday who brings that we learned from that there's an idea to make a we spoke at the bottom That was some of yesterday's rate. But the truth is that there's another very notable exception to the rule when it is okay for a person to make an and really it begins with a Mishna and so it's gimlishnish says the topic of today's but what we need is is that if somebody wants to be a parish and he's working on his and he's he's up to which is one of the major that talks about in his very good tool to use this is a good thing. So too in the same vein you want to be an oyer give me micer you want to be a parish make an so it sounds a little bit like is a good thing the truth is the it's at the very very end of the very often at the very end gives a a smoo so the rub of the ra of is right it's it's the the ram's summary of of the but but the truth is at the end of the he very often speaks out so this is the very very says somebody makes a he's doing it because he's working on his and he feels that where he is right now a nether would be a very useful tool says it's a beautiful thing he says I'll give you an example If somebody was a he ate too much and he made a and he said that I'm not going to eat for a year or for two years or someone had drinking problems and he says one year two years might not be enough time but he says there I'm not going to drink for his or he says unequivocally cold turkey he's never going to have a drink again or somebody was always running after money and or somebody was feeling very handsome and it was getting to him and he made he was says these are all these are all things that are very So it says there is an idea and he quotes this mission of that if a person makes a or his purpose is not true that you can never make an there are times where it's okay there are times it's okay whether it's The ramic what's the makar to this is the said he says he never wanted to eat from the carbon asham of another was a was a kay he was allowed to eat from any he was allowed to eat from the carbon asham with his kacham but he said he would never eat from the asham of another because he felt that a nuz and and he didn't want to get involved he didn't want to eat from the meat of this carbon even though it was his right to eat it but he never wanted to touch it. He said there was one time and he made an exception. What was the story? There was a that came from the south. He was an extremely handsome person because when someone completes his say he has to cut his hair off and and he felt that by doing that he was affecting his you say why did you do that? He told me he says, "I want you to know I was a I was a I was a shepherd for my father and I went to fill up water from the well and I saw myself for the first time in the mirror. I saw myself through the reflection of the water and as soon as I realized how handsome I was, my came running after me and wanted to completely wipe me out. He wanted me to do a vis where I was going to lose everything." I turned to my and I said, I started talking to him in the third person. I said, "Russa, what you you trying to make me into? You want me to lose anything?" He said, "At that point, I took upon myself that I'm going to be a nazer." So said he had a policy. He never ate from the asham of another of another. He felt that that the naz was wrong. But when I heard this person's story and I realized why he was he did it with the right I got off and I kissed him on his head and I told him my son may there be many like you and this is the right type of says this was the ra the saw from here that even though it's true but sometimes a person needs it sometimes It's a critical part of a person's growth and to make for him to be able to continue to grow. And he says that's what I'll tell you something interesting. I once saw a chuva from one of the he was discussing back and forth with the whether it's to make another. Apparently the from it seems like it's you're not allowed to make another. You cannot physically make another. It's not but he said it's awesome and that's the theme of there's other for this as well that it's not okay to make an so he wrote back in this he says how can you say the said it's meaning it's clearly discouraged and frowned upon and it's very bad you ask your rabbis don't do it but at the same time it's not asser he says why not said the taz so which taz the taz who says many times in in the spirit that the have no right to make and to say that something that's in the is going to be awesome have no right to do that they have no right to do that so for example the ask why is why don't you worry that you may carry the baby you may carry the now would be like it wouldn't be a problem but we don't pass like we pass like says only something that you couldn't have done before Shabas is we just had it but something that you could have done before Shabas is not meaning is not so doesn't it seem like a very reasonable concern you don't take because you're afraid afraid the famous why aren't you worried that you may go ahead and carry the baby or the knife so let's be can't be because if you're going to go ahead and do this means no we learned that from a you can't make a you can't make that's going to blatantly be a same why do you blow on why aren't you worried you may fix it you can't play music on chables so why aren't you worried about blowing you don't play on shabas So don't blow even on behavior. So this in the tru of us I saw so the so the god that you can't tell me the said it's to make I hear it's all very nice there's there's good reasons not to do it and clearly disseminated that point very very clearly they made it very clear don't make another buter it's not that's a why because at the end of the day the terrorist says it's in the there's a par there's a par of the says clearly that there's a concept of making said don't do it but at the same time you can't tell me that the said it's awes but the truth is I mean I didn't really have a chance to think about this too much but I don't understand because no one's saying that you can't make a nether ever and you can't be maberous ever we just spoke out two times where it's okay the says there are times. So if we would say that we're you're not following either or this you don't have one of the exceptions rule when it's okay to make a that it's awesome to make a not a mitzvah in the par. It's like saying that there's no falls down. It's like saying there's no whenus falls out of chavas. You're not being because you're going to have when doesn't fall out of chas because you're going to have when sukus doesn't fall on a chabas. Here too, if you're going to say that it's to make a when it's not okay to make a not when you're still going to have a par of which is also there's other by the way. But the point is is that anyway I thought it was a very interesting regardless we'll speak on a little bit more raid. we'll do part three but in the meantime. So again we're discussing if somebody says so now the obligation to bring a becomes if it's you cannot use now you can never use we clarified that you can't even use to fulfill your obligation. The question is how do you know that what's the that this is something that comes up often this is the source it's the how do you know this how do you know if somebody says now to bring a carbon it's only the says clearly the is talking about a carbon pes and it says the carbon pes is or fake the you bringing a from you can't bring from cattle you bring it either that's a parish so what do you mean at first glance in very clear it was and now you have in that says must be coming to teach me something must be is one thing is something else means all the totality of that are brought either besides for the but as far as animals go we're comparing all carbon to how so just every for that reason or if he says makes it now it's by the way always has to come from. So how do you know you learn that from the carbon is clearly not explaining the carbon is not that's the carbon is all carbon they're put together in the same heish just like is only so too all carbon are only the one piece of information that the Mishna didn't disclose was how do you know that is only so how do you know that itself is only this will take us pretty much to the end of the says you know how you know that the carbon was only the first carbon pes that the yidden ever brought was a that pes was only it wasn't brought from example because there was no all they had was so it was so if the first p was only so to all so you want to know how you know only so that I can now learn all from there it's very simple we learn from was definitely only because all they had was how could you learn something from they only brought the obviously all they had was that if I want to bring or when I said and I have money sitting in my drawer that I set aside for that I can't use the money now to buy the you'll tell me and there was one and they didn't use my money of course they didn't use my they didn't have maybe if they had they would have used the money from how could you learn a situation where I have an option from a situation where I didn't have the option told him I hear but argued with meaning so the is and even though there was no Doesn't matter. You could still learn from there. At the end of the day, they didn't use you cannot use any wasn't comfortable with this because another question meaning in theory the conversation could have ended here. They could have ended by Rabza holding done in Misha Raba holding ain't done in and that would be the the end of of this discussion is going to ask soon why this is not the end. But there's a there's a part two to the between you're gonna learn from that that was a very different type of garbage. The blood didn't go on the didn't go on. Now there was a to put the blood on the mash and on the right so that the could jump over all the houses but not on the it wasn't an ordinary carbon and being that it wasn't an ordinary carbon maybe you can't learn from is learning from and you have a that's all the problem is how do you learn from how do you get this off the was a very different type of carbon. There was no part of the carbon wasn't even there. I have an answer to this too. The context is a familiar with. So what's the saying? The going to go and which the carbon which is telling the you should do now in you should do this init. So you see over here we're comparing the to the going to be brought and we learn from that should be the same I hear on learning but I have a heckish and mean that I have a heckish that's a whole different story. Why? So the gar later is going to say because but for right now the gar didn't explain it yet say I hear you but I have a time on that either either way. So there were two give and takes between and first says now you know that the carbon the is only I learned it from the was only so there there was no other option there was another option said no done in then there was another give and takea told how could you learn had no to that responded. I have a that's referring to. So you see there's a connection between says obviously held so why did he need a second told why couldn't the conversation just end there? Why is said no I maintained my position that ain't done in okay and says to so you'll tell me that maybe was and came around to he says okay maybe done in that's why he needed another reason and what was his other reason his other reason was he can't learn from although it was only because there was no but at the same time it was a different type of carbon because nothing went on But what about the midbar? They only brought one carbon p in the midbar. Brings they only brought one carbon in the midbar. What was the reason? Because they weren't gamal. They had no and being that they had no they couldn't bring another carbon. But regardless there was a carbon p that was brought in the midbar. Now the carb was brought in the midbra had they had the mishk where they were able to do the and the and that was also only because there was no when they were in the midbar is the gor what's raba's telling you can't learn from maybe you can't learn from but why can't you learn from the pak that was born in the midbar so the is asking it like as a it's not clear what the is but the is asking it as as a rabb why do you need a second You already said and if you're coming around and you're telling me that maybe and your whole argument is now based on this that you can't learn from but maybe learn from the says just talking. So as far as I'm concerned that's the reason you can learn from the response was meaning answering the first the reason needed a second wasn't because he needed a second it was happy saying aimed on but you obviously argue so it was all rebel but what about the Why did he need a p of there's an obvious flaw in like the just spoke out? Why didn't just say even if you can't learn from but you can learn from the was also only because they had no and they did have so says really could have said that he was all talking according to me you worried about meaning he himself could have just said and mishar he knew the whole Tina wasn't such a was wasn't such a good anyways he wasn't taking it so seriously because he didn't really need it cuz he felt at the end of the day the real reason you can learn it from is because but you know we're going to go back and forth there's a anyway says how does the resolve anything why does the change anything meaning the now is checkmate argument he's saying you want to tell me have a says why does that change anything if you can't learn from there matters you see from here that being that there's a heck you can't ask if you can learn just you see this is a that's a this was only that's also only then you could But if the is that's why by quoting his he really ended the whole conversation says they had a problem it comes out then the regular is learned out from it says We're comparing which is all to mean. How do you know? Because we compare. So it's being through the second. I we know in this is Kch 101 that doesn't work. So the says we're not learning from and then what we're doing is we're saying through the said that all they're all lumped into one category. So that when the says the word when it says that the quoted doesn't just mean it means all I can learn all from the would mean if I learning from I can learn from but that's not what's happening over here what's happening is I have a heck that puts together and then I'm learning all from the combination of directly from so at the end of the day what really comes out is that it's going from it departs it says that was the mission how do I know is only how do I know is only rebelza learned do from pesak How did Rebel learn it? He held I learned it from I could you learn a hold you could learn even if you want to tell me but at the end of the day just one thing that emerges a little unclear is that really came with two ters on his first Tina was done and The second title was how could you learn from had no and it had no it was a very different type of carbon right there were other differences as well it had to be brought on the 10th day four days before right these special that was done on the he can't he you wouldn't be able to learn from there the garra immediately rejected that or the garra suggested you should be able to immediately reject it because even if you can't learn it from you should be able to learn it from and the garra seems to accept that argument. If that's the case, why even mention that argument? What's what was being when he said the was very simply by saying even if you can't learn it from you'd still be able to learn it from the but that's not clear but at the end of the day the rebar that holds that the was only it's learned out from was only how do I know that because there was nothing else other than as a result there must have been only brought I learned from and I learned carbon from what about who didn't agree with in this he held you can't learn from aimed he didn't seem to hold this either that's tomorrow's stuff.