Eps 9. The Holiest Rothschild

Did you know that the forgotten founder of Zionism went on to play a leading role in a good Israel or that Rafatka was responsible for the continued presence of the Muslim wack on Harabas? It turns out that the margins of history tell the real story. Behind the Times dives into the big concepts and overlook moments that carry vast meaning all through the lens of Torah and rabbitic thought. This is Jewish history like you've never heard it before. Behind the times with Rabbi Ephraim Zalma Galinski and Gdalia Gutag. A visitor to the opulent Frankfurt mansion of Baron Wilhelm Carl or Shimon Wolf Rothschild, grandson of the dynasty's founder, who spent some time taking the fabulous wealth of the banker, had a question. Since you spend your life so surrounded by wealth, how do you prevent yourself from becoming haughty? In response, the baron led the visitor deep into his mansion. He opened the door. The visitor was shocked to see that the room was bare besides a coffin. Santaim say for ma yab yabik a guide to sickness death and mourning. What is this? The visitor asked. This is how I remember my life's purpose replied Baron Rothschild. I come in here every lie in the coffin and say safetim to ponder the fact that my time here on earth is so short. And that my dear Bry Zama Galinsky has all the hallmarks of a legend. There's no source attributed variously to different Rothschilds. But that is a great introduction to the legendary life that's the episode of this behind the times. We're going to be exploring the fascinating figure known as Hassar Hatsadic, the great and holy the holiest Rothschild as I like to call him. By the way, legend plays a very large role in the Rothschild dynasty in general. You have a lot of legends which are hard to to authenticate, but that's part of the story. Well, as we've said, as we've said, and this is so central. So, let's just dive in with this for a minute before we're going to get back to some bio and etc. But our normal c customer is to do things entirely out of order in this podcast. So a so but as we've said the function of legend is not so much about the stories and the legends themselves as what they say about the subject. It's so often the case that as we've said multiple times here in the past that they don't say those stories about other people, right? So the stories and the legend making about the Rothschild we're going to be discussing in this episode but particularly the fume the legend making built up that's that stretch from Hungary to Galitzia all the way to you know to Germany about the life of and of course about the life of this very unique member of the Rothschild dynasty that is itself >> and by the way his Hebrew name was Shimv right you forgot to mention that name >> Shimanv I think has said well To be perfectly honest, it was there on my first in my opening lines. Shimva or Shiman Z, right? But his name, okay, let's jump in over there just to frame our discussion over here because the Baron Rothschild, his various known as Vilhelm or or Shiman V was a legend in his own time. The only f member of the of this famous family's third generation, right? He was close very close to Falh but beyond that to Gdali is across Europe and we can find documentary evidence of that right throughout the the late the latter half of the 19th century the early parts of the 20th century and in fact various legends are told and retold about him journals till today you can go on >> a fascinating source would be that Adaras who if many of the listeners don't know who Adarus was Darus was the r of me of Panovich You can imagine how what a great person he was and >> and the father-in-law of >> Ravk and then he became the rav of that's how Ravuk has a claim to the rautal because he was the son-in-law of the Adaras. >> So Adas is one of the big dom of his generation and he's something has to do with >> and something that he saw by the Sarah Sadik very interesting. Yes. So there's the he was as we're going to see a serious Tamil Kim and a man I would say like this a man who was part legend and part reality right he died in 1901 not that long ago and yet so much of it is shrouded in lack of clarity and so in this episode of behind the times which it's now a much more occasional series so we're going to give you a bumper episode there is lots to unpack over We're going to be trying to untangle some of the legends. I mean, there's so many legends about even facts that we know he was close to the Kasava and yet there's radically different versions about how he met the Kasava, who came to who and what was said and was it Mariam Bader and Frankfurt to was the Prebber version correct the version correct was all part of the legend. But >> we do have things in writing from the Kafer about him, right? >> Yes. >> No, that's not legend. That's >> that's what I'm saying. What is the his he was he's a figure who's so grounded in we can trace through his sodaka great giving who he was giving them to where to the he gave to Radhiva you know he gave to Pbisha a princely son >> gave to the the Muslim movement as well >> right and he founded he he endowed very you know important institutions medical institutions educational institutions in his hometown of Frankfurt or his adopted hometown of Frankfurt so I'd say what I want to understand is the legend and also the wider meaning of the Rothschilds. And one more thing is what I find to be his bittersweet legacy almost tragic legacy because a great person who was swallowed because his descendants didn't follow the same way. And so I think it's >> that's a general talk. We're going to have to talk about it. A general topic of how the wealth really influenced the Yiddish kite which is a very sad story but it has it in a very important lesson for us because you know that Mishbah put out lately this past week a whole addition a whole issue >> in the Hebrew edition. >> No in English about the the issue of of wealth and of standards of living. Our cover story this week about the struggles of the room community. The struggles are plenty. >> Exactly. And we'll have to talk in this episode. We'll have to talk about the fact that the Rothschild family little by little left kite completely. And that is a that that's a very big Muserm for us. Mushmoose will be delivering it. Listen. Stay with us for the Musm. We'll we won't concentrate it all. We'll be dropping it like bits of honey throughout. But agreed and I'll just say it just one more trigger. Why now? Well, we wanted I wanted to explore this topic for a while. But there is a peculiar fascination with the Rothschild dynasty. It's something out there in in non-Jewish world an absolute till today Rothschild is synonymous with conspiracy theory with massive wealth controlling the world. And so there is in the f world in the Jewish world in general there is fascination with him. And we received a couple of weeks ago a reminder that they are still around because the French Swiss and the news was reported last week or a couple of weeks ago that the French Swiss dynasty who I thought they would they did they ended and yet no there's a last struggle. Apparently there's a mother-in-law and a daughter-in-law who are arguing it out now in court the last over the last few hundred million of the dynasty as well. So very sad, very glorious, very I don't know whatever it is such a story and here we are to unpack it with the story of the holiest Rothschild. So let's start with I think if you will let's start with some historically clear stuff and then try and untangle things. So very basically the story begins with a founder of the dynasty who was a prime by the name of >> Maranchel Rothschild. >> By the way it's very confusing in the Rothschild dynasty. >> Yeah. >> Is that the names we keep repeating themselves sometimes backwards. Mayor Amshell had a son who was Amel Mayor. >> Exactly. That is shocking when you were trying to study this family. You become confused so easily. >> Yes. And what's more confusing is that often they give the middle name identical all the kids. So for example, we're going to see again jumping the gun. A family brothers were called Mayor Carl, Adolf Carl, Wilhelm Carl, Anthem, Alexander Carl, right? I mean, how do you know? Imagine if they just called the mother wanted to call Carl and then they all run down the stairs together. So obviously it was very confusing in the names. And this was unique family practice. We're going to see a lot of unique family practice here, including the fact that they kept the money inside the family. >> They married inside. >> They married inside the family. And this was donastic marriage not between dynasties that happened rarely this was and this is literally very much part of the story and I keep promising things we're going to dive in over here. So, so Mayor Amir Rothschild, 1744, died in 1812. Fascinatingly enough, we're talking about the world's richest man now is Ellen Musk, who's just basically on 750 billion dollars, right? And these no one has ever known figures like this, but it's actually when May Rothschild died, they his wealth is estimated to have been something like 400 billion pounds. So that's a lot of money that is in today's money. Otherwise he would have been worth trillions. The point being mayor had five sons the five arrows because he sent them out all different parts of the world. He had his son right so mayor amshaw had the the oldest was called amshaw mayor and he stayed behind in Frankfurt. He will be part of this story here. The vianese branch was Salomon Mayor Rothschild who won't be part of the story. The the London branch similarly not Nathan Mayor Rothschild. Then you have Par Paris the James Mayor the Rothschild who was somewhat part of his story his son but crucially our story begins with the fourth son who is in Naples in Italy Carl Mayor von Rochield who was born in 1788 in Frankfurt obviously when his father was a very wealthy man by that time died in 1855 and with him this story begins although >> so we have to mention some legend over here please >> I thought until the Hebrew through Kulmus magazine put out their recent edition. I thought it had no source in our sources at least. But I found out the legend does have a source and the story goes as follows that Azo that Mayor Anel the first wealthy world child by the way one of the things that I found out was that he wasn't the first one in the family to deal with money. His father already was a money changer as many many European Jews in at that time because they didn't have what to make a parnasa from. But his father already dealt in money and collecting coins I think and Mayor Anchel the legend goes as follows. May anchel was a Yasum at the age of 12 I think and he was living in the house of the RV of Chovv not the Rebe of Chart but the RV of Chartov if you want to know his his precise name the RV of Chartov. >> Where's Chkov? >> Chkov is in Galitia. >> Okay. >> Okay. So it's not next to Frankfurt, but that's the story. Okay, I'm just telling you the story the way the legend has it that he grew up or stayed or was a vent bias at the Rav of Chart and Rav Chkov collected money for Yusim for Armon and at that time Mechel got married and left the house and right after he left the house they discovered that there was like a massive theft in the house of this RV of Cha >> and so they naturally assumed >> and they asumed assumed that that since he was a Benbi, he knew of the fact that the Rav was collecting money for Islam. >> So they thought he'd take it. >> They thought that he took it and the RV comforted him and and Manchchel said that he'll pay back the money. >> Okay, >> he'll pay it back. >> He says, "Give me some time. I'll pay back the money." >> Months later, some someone goes into some kind of, you know, a what they call a No, a tavern. Is that >> tavern? An inn. >> An inn. Right. Right. And someone became shiker over there and someone like he released information that who the real Ghana was and they find out who the real thief was and they got the money back and >> why did Mel cover up for him? >> Very good. That is the question. So the Rav of Chart goes back to Meanchel and he says why did you confess that you were the thief when you were not? So he said, "I saw the tsar on the face of the rov that it was so great that'll he won't have money to give the almanus. I decided I'll pay it back and when when they'll find a thief, then uh they'll get the money back." And that's the story. The legend goes that the ro of chskov blessed him and all his descendants with great wealth. >> And where where's that story written? Oh, so when I was studying the history of the Rothschild in not non-Jewish sources, this story does not come up. Okay, so I thought it was pure legend with with no source at all. However, in the recent Hebrew Kulmos, they came up with a source from a cafer. The cafer is called Minas Shabos and the author of the cafer is the son of this r of chkav. And he writes that I myself heard this story from Chkg was the main in Europe before World War II. If you know the famous pictures of Shapira and Kanuka of Lublin, right? So you had the tall founding member of a >> right. Right. Yeah. The tall reb with the big spotic and the long white beard laying the cornerstone and giving the main dash. That's how we saw Chkov. He was the most important in Europe at that time and he told over this story to the son of the RV of Chkgov. >> Very interesting. >> So we have we have a source for it. Okay. >> Beautiful. Beautiful. I mean it's a story of honesty of sensitivity and who knows Hashem wanted this dynasty to have to be blessed with wealth. >> There's no doubt that the Rothschild dynasty helped a lot the Yeshu. That's for sure. And so this is going to be connected to the to to our story today because we have the fourth son of Mayor Amshel again his KL mayor otherwise known as Kalman mayor right he was born in Frankfurtain fourth of the five children and he actually became known as Khl by the family except the English branch who called him Charles right and so what has happened is that how does he end up in Naples I mean visas Naples you might ask he says that when the Austrians invade they did in Italy Italy in 1821. So that was just opened up another opportunity for business. It's what the Rothschild said in that era. Let's set up another branch as well and they set up a branch of the bank in >> so what from what I understood is that the wealth was due to the fact that they had many branches. I mean the ability to transfer money through branches was very crucial especially when you're talking about wartime right and you have someone who wants to guard his money. Okay. So you give the money to one branch who through his connections to the other branch will secure those funds elsewhere. >> That is very true. Plus, if I understand correctly, the fact that they were lending to all sides in the basically the revolutionary basically this is the Napoleonic the revolutionary wars and the Napoleonic wars which take decades afterwards as fighting and they were able to somewhere some Rothschild's going to benefit from the war because they were playing all sides and this was before the days of kind of insider trading that it was illegal. They were the ultimate insider traders because famously they were able to use they pioneered the use of lightning quick communications by carrier pigeons or whatever it was or they just had a quick tip off from the crown prince that there's going to be this and this political movement they're able to sell you know to buy a loan sell high and etc. That's where they made the money like this. So that is Carl Kalman Mayor Rothschild there in Italy. Now how it happens to be he was not from second generation already about half of them not from there's only one the oldest one Amal Mayor who was a child who was the oldest son stayed in Frankfurt was the head of the dynasty and he they called him Rabbi Amshell right because he was he was from but he didn't have kids he was childless and this is what's going to happen over here because his nephew and we're going to talk about his nephew here but basically his this was we're talking about amir oldest son living Now fum he has the fourth his younger brother is living in massive wealth inside inside Italy where he brings up his family Kalman or Kala is bringing up his family there and they are now there's an important source I want to introduce everyone to this one the important sources who helps us kind of distinguish between legend and fact at least as in some way is the great agura leader Marina of Yakov Rosenheim who was a wrote to Zakarin's very interesting and important recollections memoirs about all different great people he met and he knows Baron Rothschild who's a subject of our podcast today. He knows him because his own father Elio and his mother whose name I forget were basically acted as the gaboim of Baron Rothschild for many years Gabo. So he knows now he says like this. I consider in my duty to devote a few lines within the framework of these memoirs to the uniquely remarkable personality of Baron Wilhelm Carl von Rothschild who passed away in the year 1901 whose life to this very day deserves far greater historical appreciation he has received. He says he's such a central character and he has forgotten. He was just forgotten because he only had daughters. They didn't inherit the money and there was no more giving and basically the whole he died and that was it. It was finished. He says like this, "The years of Ilhelm von Rothschild's childhood and youth enables are shrouded in obscurity. It's known only that his father Carl von Rothchild had already begun a return to religious observance." Now that's very interesting because generally the story is told that he didn't keep anything and he basically as his son became fum he basically said oh get out my hair. That's generally the impression you get. But no, Jacob Rosenheim understands no, he's become, you know, stronger in some way. And I think the family took a journey into bit more orthodoxy. Yet apparently he said, and this is in line with the way we generally tell it, gave no serious thought to educating his three sons, Mayor, Vilhelm, Adolf, and a Jewish religious spirit. Right? And that is a fact. One of the facts is one of it's a fact that he had to his son became >> I don't know how much Swedish guy you had in Italy in in that Kufa. I mean, not the way we know it today. Okay. I mean, I don't know how many big fume communities we had in Italy at that that Kufa, >> right? I I know that inside inside this Baron Carl's house in Italy, they had a shul, but that was, you know, they had everything. I'm sure they had stables. They had it wasn't a hard thing for them to dedicate a shul inside inside the house, but they had one. But, and this seems to be the crucial fact. It was towards his bait mitzvah that he starts to become that his son who's born I think in 1828 Wilhelm known as Villi Villivvon Rothschild O Shiman starts to become interested in Yiddish kite and the reason is because he said he's got to study for his bitzvah as someone said and then the father said well and this is again it wasn't clear to yak Rosenheim but the legend goes that the person who taught he said okay who knows the Bible well we've got to get the best only like in true Yakasha style Right? It only the best will do. Who the best scholar of Bible in the whole province is a Christian? The bishop. So the bishop recommends someone and this and the bishop recommends a young priest very bright and learned young priest. And the legend goes that this bishop this young priest is in fact Jewish. And this is where things get sticky because there's actually a work out there called >> who was Jewish who was forced I think into Christianity as a child. Not well. So this is where there's a book out there recently a few years ago published by Velheim in which it says it's history but it's actually there's no sources you can't really follow anything. So it's it can chapter after chapter fascinating of this apparently about this legend apparently and so the story goes according to this that he seems to have come if I'm not mistaken from he was one of these classic cases of you know impoverished child of a of an almono living in Urusim didn't have enough food and the and basically went over to the Christians to get to you know to make a life for himself but bitterly regretted ever since was sent to I don't remember but at Naples actually and when he saw this trusting and eager and very clever and very serious child. He basically plotted. He said, "This is my ticket back to Yiddish. I'm going to help him escape from what and I'll escape as well." Anyway, long story because it has shades of a crime. This story has shades of of you know, Count Potsky and the Gavin Avam, the power of the church and needing to run away. And yet, none of this is some we don't know. I mean as this Jakob Rosenheim says that legend I do not know whether it's fact or legend that during Vilhelms of rebellious youth in his parents home a Jewish convert serves as a tutor that's all he says about it and yet it manages to fill chapters and this other thing so who knows anyway the point is again part of this incredible legend building around this figure vill we do know that that he took his Tanakh studies which is very seriously and he wanted to keep everything he was reading his Christian translation he wanted to resolved to fulfill everything written in there. And then you have Ryak Rosenheim writes a fascinating story over them. In any case, he says it's told that while still in his adolescence, Wilhelm von Rothschild revealed his inclinations under the influence of his Bible studies by parading through the streets of Naples with his sites trailing behind him determined to fulfill the commandments of that you may see them. Right or in that incident, the truth finally came out. In other words, his father said, "Enough with this humras over prancing around embarrassing the whole Rothschild dynasty for these waving strings. Back he goes. We better give him something. Get someone to whip him into shape." He sends him to Uncle Anchel. Anchel may von Rothschild who's a baron and you know with all the titles, but he's the Fuman childless older brother living back home near the ghetto in >> and he becomes his main mentor even in in the in tradition. >> Correct. Well, he becomes that mentor, but he's obviously and we're told by Ryaku Rosenheim, he was given clear instructions obviously, you know, keep him middle of the road. Don't let him go to the extremes. And one of these instructions was apparently don't let him learn Gomorrah. That's what Rakar Rose is learn Musa and Tanak and things like this, but things that are respectable, but nothing too orthodox. You can hear the overtones. You hear the overtones of the family. Yes, we're very respectful of tradition, but nothing too orthodox. Nothing too we're going to stay. We're middle of the road. He would have >> fascinating that the learning of Gimarra was always perceived even by the Goyam. >> Yeah. >> As being the main threat for everything to they're totally right. By the way, >> Gomorra is like that's the generator. That's the nuclear. >> They all get it. And by the way, it's back in the news. Sorry to sorry dear listener, a total aside over here, but now that you mention it, we have the tremendous anti-semitism coming out in parts of the American right at the moment. You have famous, you know, Rashant of a podcaster, Candace Owens, spouting increasingly venomous anti-semitism and saying to Ben Shapiro, a famous Jewish media personality, she called, she said, he's a Talmudic Jew and it's the Talmudic Jews who are and literally dripping medieval anti-semitism. Horrible stuff once again. But you're right, the they always identify the Talmud, the Talmud. And that's why, by the way, by have you noticed from people that we don't call it, you know, we're studying Talmud. They're correct. That's the correct thing. We talk about Gomorrah, right? Because we want nothing to do with being called Tal because it's got such horrific overtones, although it's the correct term. But anyway, back to his. So, young Villi Rothschild is sent to Frankfurt. Revaka Rosenheim describes this young Italian baron distinguished by his tall hat. I don't know what tall hat he would have won, but whatever. That's obviously back in the day they would have worn something different. The Italians and the Germans stopped in nearby mines right on his way to Frankfurt without revealing his identity to anyone who appeared early in the morning at the synagogue for shakare. The young man made a striking impression both by his dignified appearance and by the intense concentration of his prayer and the shul attendant invited the gaba invited him to breakfast only afterwards he revealed his true identity. He was then escorted with great honor all the way to Frankfurt. So this is how he's going to be treated throughout his life as this kind of curio a person who never loses. He never becomes this kind of Balua like a Haime Balcha sits at the back of Shu. No, he remains a baron. He's so incredibly wealthy, so incredibly aristocratic. We're going to see the his connections to royalty at the very highest levels of the German Empire, the Ger Germany, then Austrohungarian Empire. He never loses that. He's always a step above, but he >> by the way I saw in the beginning I saw pictures only from from literature of the Sarah Tadik. >> Yeah. But but if you look deeper down, I mean, he looks like a Baron in in the pictures that are out there in the world. >> Bareheaded, right? And he looks like he looks like a Baron Rothschild. >> Yeah. >> Those pictures were censored out when >> you know, but I think that's so important, Rabagalinsky, what you're saying here because I think it's important to remember and this is why he I think jumping the gun, but you can we're going to see this thread even this great saintly figure, he could not tear himself away from the family's structure. the idea that Rothschilds must marry Rothschild. We are aris aristocrats and the money and the marriage and the dynasty must go on. And that's part of the tragedy, right? Imagine if he just said, "Okay, I'm worth I may be worth $2 billion, but whatever it is, but I can just go into the ghetto or just live like the highish Jews." I think things could have turned out very differently. Does this sound like a criticism? I'm not who we to crit. It's not a criticism. It's just I think a fairly a cause and effect over here. But let's just go back to the story over here. Essentially they sent him it was a son-in-law the Vertzberger was his for many years and >> just a word tell the listeners who the Vertzberger or Rav was. talking about Rabin of Bamberger >> correct >> who was known as the bar plug of hir regarding the Frankfurt controversy if to make the >> to whether to split off from the general secular community >> but he was he was one of the one of the big dom of German jewelry yes the Brit so his son-in-law was a rock called Ravelgman from and he was the ro of Hamburg and he wor with him for 10 years but afterwards he learned with other abonum as well and he reached the level where he's a genuine heist said later on you know many great people suddenly saw when they met him came from Eastern Europe various places in Eastern and Central Europe they said hey there's Baron Rothschild you know he can learn we have to quote a line from the cipher go on quote ahead Voy beautiful. Unbelievable. I mean, what a testimony. What a testament that the he was saying his great beakus his great sidkas his saintliness his holiness the great you know erudition across vast areas of shas he said it's impossible to believe I mean that is an incredible thing imagine how many that he was that is you understand his stature over the kavifer kav didn't have to write this he was writing someone else he was a very genuine that this was a very a person who from nothing had attained attained great stature >> just to mention you remember if you remember one of the words that he said about him was is goel titus vigosi right >> so there is a source in a Jewish German historian by the name of maybe you'll help me out with this Paul Ernsburg >> don't know >> okay he called him a a mystic or someone who was like a a noir how would you say a nozzer a uh a hermit >> yeah in some way well yes and by the way he was known when he wasn't you know he lived in these lavish mansions But he would have a roll on a coffee for breakfast. Right? And as the story that was said at the beginning indicates, you know, about this the thing that there was at least the perception it was well understood that this was a man who was may lived in opulence that was just part of his status. It was far from reflecting his essence. He became a he became from the kid who was brought up just not knowing anything. He became that's where he got to. And when he settle as he settles down in Ryak Rosenheim, again going back to his as a principal source, he talks about him, he calls it the Torah of Gdul, he talks about it as the existence of Torah and worldly material greatness in one place. He said that you could that he served Baron Villi Vchild served as the Austrohungarian console which is an important position because remember that this is the Germany the mid-9th century. It is still I think still the junior power next to the Austrohungarian Empire and so representative of the of one of Europe's great empires diplomatic representative it meant that what he had to receive when Emperor France Ysef who was famously a very beneficent leader to the Jewish people in the Austrogarian Empire when he came to visit the palace when he came to visit his consul who was this from baron he didn't what would normally do you take off your hat in respect Okay. But he says that he didn't, which is a bit strange by the way. Hold on. And now that I'm thinking about that because we know in pictures he did. So I'm not quot but again you know here it is genu putting everything on the table. A genuine struggle to distinguish between legend and reality over here. But I said but again this is Vak Rosenheim writing. He says I recall the Austrian Empire once arrived in Frankfurt for a visit on Moz Shabas shortly after you know t Shabas in order that the baron could carry out his official duties after Shabas calmly without haste. He rented several rooms in a hotel near the railway station for Shabas deposited his official uniform there which tells you a that he was a tremendous yka right and he had this ability to think ahead in that way but again it was a medactic commit didn't cut corners and say that is a good entry to the other legend that talks about the brush on chabas >> there's a legend and I'm going to wrap it into something else as well because this was a well-known legend about brushing the hair on Chabas but I'm going to quote it in it from the ver the version or the the recounting by Ravk Cook in his hesper for Baron Edmund the Rothschild who was the son-in-law and nephew the saint the baron and he says like this the great baron and he's talking about the son-in-law remember this is Jack Baron Edmund the Rothschild who was known as >> Baron Hanadiv here >> Hadiv he was the great benefactor of the of the Zionist movement >> whoever took a deal to Zikyakov would know that at the entrance to Zikyakov >> there's A beautiful simply if you know if you were never there take a few minutes it's kad go the beautiful grounds it's called ganhanadiv >> it's officially the grounds of the caver of Baron Edmund Rothschild and his wife but it's actually like sprawling gardens it's simply stunning and uh >> is that near I think it's near the winery >> yeah it's right because the winery was another of his projects so he was again we're gonna we're thoroughly Sorry if we're thoroughly confusing. Let's try and straighten this out. The third generation of the Rothschilds, we have Baron, the great Saint Le Sadik of the Baron Billy Vilhham the Rothschild, the son-in-law, Baron Edmund Rothschild, who is the great Nadiv and the founder of and founder of so much of early Zionism. Anyway, in of Cook's Hesper for the Baron, who's the son-in-law, he says he was a great man of Jewish tradition. Note, he wasn't a for man, but he was a man of Jewish tradition. Then he says his father-in-law was a sad medit speaking in a hespin-law and he says that the sadic he said once he was in his summer vacation area whatever it was and it was a shab one approached him and said you know your hair is not brushed and and there's kus that said that someone who is someone who has to interact with royalty is allowed to brush his hair on shabas because he's got to appear in front of them. So you can said we can find some that that you could look correct and say you sort yourself out and brush your hair. So the baron responded Azrauk said you know honored rabbi he says I can't use this heta of kavalus why because I'm not kovalus the malus is carved to me I don't need the kings and the princes they need me for loans >> right in Hebrew it is >> just to finish off my quote from this hesit over here says The family continued this connection to Ms. But notice, and I'm really sorry for jumping the gun, but this almost is makes you weep because here is Rukus struggling to find connections of connections to Msuran honoring tradition, which was the language that you would have used about the Rothschilds in general, right? Till very recently, only a few years ago, probably two or three years ago, two years ago, the last of the great Jewish Rothschilds died in England. I think his name was Lord Jacob de Rothschild and he was a man in the late '9s, but he's married Jewish and he was an highly aristocratic person. And that was the last of them. He always say about the Rothschilds that they were close to tradition and yet that's not quite the same as the father-in-law who was the baron had sadik who was baky in the kulas. He said no the no kiralus doesn't help me over here because I'm not kalus they're k to me it's a very very much an indication of his stature as a etc. Can you let me say a word? >> Please get in a word and edgeways. >> Right. We promise that we'll talk some go for it some somewhat. >> A few years ago I hit upon a ramban which is a relatively famous Ramban. It's Rambanu. It talks about the Shirinu. >> Okay. >> And the Ramban famously says that Shir Azinu is actually like a history book of Amisaw. >> Yeah. And the Ramban says there's something which I didn't catch at the first moment. >> Mhm. >> When I reread the Ramban, I realized he says something very scary. Can you allow me to to read? >> Go for it. >> Just the two lines from the Ramban. So Raman says as following meaning that starts off by the fact that took us as his nation, right? and brought us there to the kindness and the good the goodnesses that they performed in the desert. >> Let us inherit these lands of these great nations. >> Okay, that's step number one. Step number two says >> the trigger for serving Abador and make and breaking being disloyal to Hashem was the great material wealth. >> So in the first time when I read this I didn't realize what the Raan was saying. It's I understood it in the manner that that even though gave us such great wealth, we still rebelled against him which is not what is saying is saying that like you said just now that was the trigger. Now that is scary as the Torah itself says in the exact why did you s why did you depart? Right. >> So that is the question. The question is I can understand that a person because of the wealth like he indulges in in I can understand that right but why is that a trigger for a forashm raan stresses the bashm rebellion against why is that what what's the shikas over here okay so I was at a sim after I saw this raan I was very troubled by this ram I was trouble because what we're experiencing thing now in certain places in the world especially in the United States is that certain parts of society society are becoming very wealthy right and we see how sim are done today in certain places and it's scary it's scary we don't we never had this before as like as never had and my feeling is that we have a masures of how to deal with has to do with the the test of poverty, right? You have many we have that talk about how be you know stop and to be happy what you have and we have ms in that but we don't have a mas on how to deal with the and that's scary because as the Ramban is saying the carries within it a very dangerous outcome which is so but aside from the practical thing I just wanted to know what is the shas Why should that bring it? So I was at a sim and I met one of the big bal today who is >> right my nephew happens to be his son-in-law. So I was at a sim with him and I brought this ramban over and I showed it to him and I asked him the question like what is the shikas? Now I'm going to quote what I think he said but I'm not saying that he takes aas for what I'm saying. Okay but this is the way I understood what he told me but it's a good in any case. Okay. And he says, try to imagine a situation where any need that pops into your mind is easily accessible within seconds. No matter what you want, like the most fanciest car, the most the best food, whatever you want. I think his example that he gave us then was that today you can order an AK machine gun rifle and it will arrive at your doorstep in 5 minutes. something like that. >> Yeah. If you get it from Walmart, if you live in America, it's like 20 minutes you get >> something like that. I think that was the example that he gave me in in in when I was talking to him. And so he told me what happens through time is that you lose your ability to say no. And that's shocking. That is mid of >> And that leads to a desire know. But it leads to midm meaning you don't have the ability anymore to say no. And to say no means to observe Hashem's laws. Okay. So when we're talking about wealth and when we're talking about the great tragedy of the outcome of the Rothschild family, we have to keep it in mind there's a new it's called not everyone has it but those who have it >> I don't think that so much by the way >> strangely enough >> but there are people who have it in our generation you cannot deny this and it's something they have to put their mind to I'm not going to tell them what the it is they're going to have to look into it themselves >> all of you tycoons who's now listening to the podcast. Yes, that there's definitely food for thought. I think in this case of a frame, the incredible thing about the baron, the holy baron was that he withtood that. What he didn't withstand was the test of family tradition. >> The family tradition, >> the structure, the family structure. >> Correct. And to and will help us understand this. We have to understand we've not covered one very important thing if a mention of Shamsh but he's very much part of the story of the family because he comes and just you know this baron is already famous for donating you know famous he became is such a supporter of etc he met we've mentioned the cyer we've mentioned his own learning we've mentioned I think the fact that he traveled with a with a with a cow when he went he with a cow part of his entourage was that he should be able to drink kov stall he avoided walking between men and women in a public street and he and he bought he had a cypher all over Eastern Europe constantly writing for him new ciftora new he had right >> he had and he had but he was a way to give parano as well he said he was even sent this is a remarkable little thing that was by our colleague Rabel Gut who wrote about him about 10 years ago in the pages of Mishbaka had some interesting things he anonymously sent pesak matzas to British prime minister Ben who's the mushid Benjamin and he sent them from a different year for a different each year from a different European city to avoid recognition. I mean this is quite this is really quite a Rothschild Rothschildian thing to do with you know endless money to do endless invasion. >> One of the legends about the this sadic of a baron was that he found out that one of his sifim requested to write down the the date on the check or something like that and using the goes date. >> Oh and he sacked him >> and he right and he said and he stopped using his >> stopped using him. Why? Because he said he's thinking of it in a go way. I mean again legends are true. These are just fascinating about the stories they tell about you the connection between Raersh and the Rothschild. So Ra Yak of Rosenheim writes something phenomenal about it. He calls it a nace galoy an open miracle. fact that Rahers and basically Rahers and the Baron arrived in Frankfurt at the same time because he says basically Rahers was the of was the you know was supported in a spiritual sense and developed and sustained the entire Western European jury but his revolution was only possible because the funding they received. But who arrived at the same time in Frankfurt as him? It was Baron Rothschild the sadic who who was who funded his school that opened in 1852. He's and then he went on to fund a later school building by Dr. Mendelhers was son and he was now very interesting thing is that he as you were mentioning before there was a great split that was between the vertsburg and hers whether they indeed over alstrits whether you should break away whether and to break away from the secular general community once had been taken over by and become secular in that way and reform held that he struggled mightily that all the members of his should but man but some stayed in both and one of them was Baron Rothschild who stayed in both. So you see, it's important to remember that the idea that he was sitting there with a bowed head in front of every godly be Israel saying, you know, tell me exactly where I should spend my money and I will. That wasn't the case. He was the Baron Rothschild. He still made his own decisions, but the relationship was very good between them until the break. There was a break between arangement between them when this is tragic. his his first daughter Baron Rothschild's first daughter married this you know a traditional cousin who went on to become Hana deayodor Edmund from Paris his second who was called Mina or Minka she met a young banker of Frankfurt who was totally irreligious I think his goldmid if I'm not mistaken and she wanted to marry him and she went to her father and her father said uh he didn't know what to do because he was a f man imagine such a f man having such a son-in-law and he went to her of her she said Rahers said you have to stand up to it. So the baron said but she threatens to commit suicide. >> Wow. >> And Raersh said even so Raersh stuck to his guns he refused to be Messi Kadushian for them. And after Rhif so vill was spoke out against Ravuer's taking over. He says Ruer who was Rivers son-in-law very great figure in his own right. He said let's open up the elections to wider candidate. Eventually they rec reconciled and he became a major fun of the broers. But there was this break over this shed over the marriage which was again this dual life. He was sadik. He was so recognized and such a recognized as such an unusual saintly person by all including he was in touch with one more thing we have to mention again is what he was doing was his connection to your and you said and you mentioned this earlier but we have to just explain what it was because one of his biggest donations and this is where he made his mark on uh you know the institutions in which he donated the schools referred to schools the orphanage in Frankfurt this has no continuation anymore but his philanthropy and extended to Israel where he built paid for the initial building of B mak right baka and there the figure comes in that is that I've recently written about mandalbam of turv the tur of who was a great karolina the turv was greatassid father of a great dynasty he was a contemporary and in fact literally a kusa as a as a teenager of that's to give him an idea of who he was and on the way to where his great-grandson was cook which I've recently written about. He stops for a week and stays in Frankfurt with a baron and he says can you donate some money to port and eventually becomes the neighbor who tried to describe people today going to the kaisel when they're coming down from the old city parking lot. You're walking down from the old city parking lot. So you have one way to go down to the kisel is that winding road that goes downwards right along along the and the other way is to go through the old city. Once you go through the old city you see the famous arched building. >> Yeah. >> Which is uh >> now it's but that was the Rothschild donation. That building was the Rothschild donation. >> Yeah. And so he has this connection to Israel and indeed did his 70th birthday. There was massive tributes to him paid in your person of global renown and some of the things that we find just random you know different parts of the traditions in different places. For example in bells they talk of his great connection to bells. Aaron Bella said that he yes until the war in Bell's the actual place there was a Tahillim sent to the Sar Shalom of Bells the founder of the dynasty and they and there was some legend there that it was every you see everyone wanted a part of his cha process because the legend in Bells or or a story in bells let's not call it a legend it was Aaron Bells had quoted his ancestor the Sarah Schalam is saying that when he was in there was a bellid who ended up in a hostel in Frankfurt and this young baron comes to visit him and they start talking and eventually establish a friendship in which part of his religious journey as he became f. So that was it. So again you see bells who would think bells and the in galitian and the thing but you find on the big post game >> who was the major post of Galitia right so here's got in the end of his in he's got a hesper that he gave for etc. There's all these things that was the dichotomy you have over here this great renown known as a sadic by not one not two not just people he gave to everyone from prebug to to to Lov to wherever it was was busy understood this was an exceptional figure and yet what was he living in so just to give some idea his some of his mansions still exist and his wife who Hannah Matild Hannah Matild >> tragically many of the Rothschild mansions were confiscated by the Nazi guys >> by the Nazis right and So there's a picture I've just got over here of one of them is it's outside in a very huge country estate place called Kennstein outside Frankfurt built in 1887 for as a summer residence and it's and they naturally what they did is they bought all the surrounding manners and demolished the manners and these big mansions and just to make Parkland like an English country manor now who visited there it says Empress Victoria the Empress Darage of Victoria and the Prince of Wales attended the opening. Now you have to understand Empress Darrow Victoria was the daughter of Queen Victoria and she was the mother of the and the wife of Frederick III who was the beginning of the German you know these imperial Germany. Her son was Vil Wilhelm and her grandson was Kaiser Wilhelm of the Second World War >> who was the the last ruler of Germany before. >> So in other words, what you see over here again in the visitors book at this very Kosha man's house was a regular guest was the empress, >> the mother of the king of Germany. >> Correct. And the prince of Wales, the future king of England. And she was they were close friends and they lived nearby. And the empress bought a house a few miles away so she could be close. the kurva lus there was something quite exceptional and very dangerous and perhaps I think we've speculated enough on what it was that perhaps it's obvious to see what happened to their dynasty that nevertheless doesn't detract from the poignency of it I think just the end of the story here let's leave the final words to Rosenheim who says that he only once had the privilege of meeting when his father sent him on some mission to although his father worked for so many decades interesting they didn't meet but he says he calls him his sar godly Visali died in 1901 and he said on the night of his petira late in the evening he still received my father in his home in his palace in Genberg and approved a final wish a Torah scroll whose writing had just been completed. He says it was cesarak Rosenheim says it was a symbolic conclusion to a life devoted to Torah mitz a life that for 50 years constituted a public sanctification of God's name in front of all amra beautiful. Thank you for listening to behind the times. We appreciate you joining us as we explore the stories and people that shape Jewish history. If you enjoy this episode, please subscribe, leave a review, and share with friends. Until next time.