S2 Eps 11. Let's Talk Bullying (feat. Dr. Rona Novick)

the things that they answered when we were kids were, you know, today they're like, "We wish the kids would be into that." >> There's 50 kids in their children's grade or 100 and they're all wearing a certain backpack. If he at least can see the first 10 minutes of the game so that he knows the names of the teams, he knows the names of the quarterbacks, he saw a play, he could talk at the lunch table. Welcome to the learning curve podcast brought to you by Mishbaha magazine. >> We are raising children in a changing and challenging world. >> So let's tackle the important issues facing from families today. I am Rabbi Neil Garfield Manal of Yeshiva Terrace Emis in Houston and I love talking about >> I am Rabbi Iris Shfeld manel Ishiva Katana of Manhattan base tipper of Manhattan and director of camp. I also love talking and sometimes fishing. >> Join us as we answer your questions and discuss the topics that matter to parents the most. and welcome back to another episode of the learning curve. Rabbi Garfield, how are you? >> I can't believe we're so deep into the season. Time just flies. It's amazing. >> It's like it's time flies when you're having fun. >> Yeah, I guess so. It's like hard to believe. I think this is uh what is this? Episode five already. Wow. >> I think we're up to five. And Bar, we've gotten more feedback with more ideas about topics which we hope to discuss in the near future. And onward we go. Yeah. >> Let let let's let's go straight in. >> Okay. >> And you go first. Ask me a question and we'll take it straight. Let's go. >> Okay. Here we go. >> We don't want to waste time with chitchat. We have so >> Oh, yes. Yes. So much to do and so little time to do it. >> Yes. Go us. >> We're living. You see, we're we're teaching by example. Okay. Here we go. My daughter's high school has a handbook of rules and almost half of them are. And it's not just for show. They enforce every rule of dress with consequences and with schmoozes and scary stories. All I will say is that this does not make my daughter want to dress more modestly. Is this done in every vase? There has to be a better way. I don't believe this. I listen, I didn't write this question. I don't know where it came from. You know, I know we get a lot of questions, but I don't believe this question. I mean, it's obviously an over. >> It's an exaggeration. Yeah, I imagine it's not half, but but definitely SNES is a very big emphasis. >> Okay, we'll take the we'll take the kernel of truth and and just say to you, how do you think we should handle SNES? How do we handle SNES? And are we overemphasizing things in an unhealthy way? >> Would you like to ask a question? Maybe you should ask the question. That's my question. This is a little Listen, >> you when you when you ask questions that are just, you know, bombastic, it sort of to me >> it it makes >> I I think the point I think the point is is is is clear in what this >> Okay, >> mother. >> Fine. I will let you answer now. Now that >> here we go. So I I'm a Talmud in the suga of I'm a Talmud of my father. I'm my father in many areas of life. So, you're going to decide whether you like what I have to say or not. And but this is how it goes. I don't believe so this is a little I'm gonna be call me a copat. I don't think I'm copying out. I don't believe that the proper way to deal with sne is in a public forum in other generally I don't believe for sure by men should not be discussing in I think that is not sneic. So therefore me and you maybe this conversation is almost bordering on that. I I think to discuss the Gmoran says right Barabim. I think when you have these very specific conversations about and by the way the says that the says it is referring to the case of the isnosa. So is is encompassing a life. >> Tell us more about that. What is the reference? >> The garra is quoting a snar says what's means to to live a life of the gar's example of living a life of isal is making a modest wedding. So the example that the garra uses as like the paradigm of is not in dress, it's in life. It's interesting that that modest weddings was an issue 2,000 years ago or I don't know if it's a brace AB Renberg or AB Ramberg wrote a song about >> oh so it's what is it 30 years ago but I'm going back to the 2000 years ago >> I heard recently from Baron Lapansski an amazing tidbit in history that in the 1960s there were signs and he saw them hanging up in Benabra from the stipler decrying the lavishness of bar mitzvah This h I imagine this is the benra what's >> yeah like what do they have already >> yeah they serve two types of of I don't know what of so but anyways so the world of tneas is is much larger than just dress even though this question is specifically about dress but I do think that public conversations about sne are itself a lack of sne and and now I'm not saying that there isn't a place for for especially in the world of mos and women to discuss this but in in general eneral I think it's it's yeah >> let's assume the questionnaire is talking about a girl school a girl minahales a girl handbook a girl it's all female >> right no no I'm not saying that one second I'm not saying that the concept of sne is is an issue I'm saying that it's almost like I know you asked the question but I don't think it is appropriate really to discuss anything specific overall about sne on a podcast between two men I don't think it's in general appropriate for or or or my derk I should say for Rabanim and to get up definitely in front of men or even in front of women to discuss and I think is notic and and even so if there is something in my yeshiva that I feel needs to be addressed I'll try to have someone else address it not me I think that's I'm very sensitive to talking about sneam I think it's not sneick once I'm not answering the question I'd like to answer the question and that is so I'm going to give an answer unrelated ated to dressing modestly into and I think or anyone who wants can extrapolate and and and you plug that in to this conversation and that is I think this is a about and we want to instill our kids with our values and our I heard once an amazing Zug um insight from Daniel Kish in Waterberry I think I was one of his first talid ever not in Waterberry I didn't learn in Waterberry But in 1997 he just got married came back to camp Heler and he was giving shear. I think it was his first year. I was in 10th grade in the canteen and I sat in the back listening to Danielle but he said the following. He was discuss he was he was talking about lashar and he said if you if you want to solve or help someone work on lashhara. Yes. When I when I was in South Falls, we gave it the after bear spend five minutes learning with us the 17 and the 17 of course I'm not shalom belittling the and the severity of the lav but generally a person who wants to work on his lash and the avenue and the way to do that is not to talk about how bad it is to speak bad but it is to teach fill a person up with a we don't say lashhara about our own wife hopefully and children and father and mother because we see them in a better light because we love them and therefore give them benefit of the doubt or I I would never say anything negative. So the way in which you fix lash is by speaking lash is by teaching yourself to go to fill the void that lash is is kind of creating. So in general in all areas of life it's like this. Someone once asked this this like very now viral clip of a person talking and the father was trying to get Raban Lee to somehow help him get his son to break up with his girlfriend. Right. You saw this video. >> No. >> No. And it's it's Raban was probably close to 100 and his his insight and understanding of human psyche was was chilling. So you see this person ask Rabbar Lee I think Manalesh Abba there's this father that has a son Nebak is going around with this girl you know and how do we how do we convince him to break him up and le said he lurs him and he said does the son know that the father loves him more than this girl does because if not why should he break up if you want to replace that nissan right that that relationship that you obviously don't want your son to have you can't just say no no no no obviously something in life that he's searching for and you have to fill it yourself. same thing lash the same thing that and right so in the world of I'm not going to discuss specifically but when you want your daughter to have values it's not just about this is user and this is user and cut your hair and wear this length it's she be she has to appreciate the value of of she has to be because obviously if she's struggling with that means she's looking for a certain certain validation or a certain feeling self-esteem, however it is that or or she just wants to fit in with everyone else. So, you have to work on her self-esteem, on her validation, on her fitting in. And you have to pump up her pineas, right? You have to pump up her heres because if all you're doing is just pushing down, pushing down, pushing down, you haven't filled the hole, whatever that hole is or whatever the challenge is. And you know, in in the the the word inesh for a face is pim right panim there's no singular because we believe that the that the inside of a person the pim is supposed to mirror the outside of a person interestingly I heard this once strikingly the word for a face in English comes from the word facade which means fake a facade is a fake exterior right so we we believe in in molding and in you know stemming the inside with the outside. So that's why again without getting into any details about sne I I I I think the mahalak the successful mal of course you need rules. I'm not saying every like everything in life of course a school needs rules and of course you we don't let kids but if if we're having a bullying issue in school right like we spoke to Dr. Novik about if we're having bullying issue in school of course we need rules or if we have an in inel in school then the mahal to do it is not to tell the kids how horrible it is to be mean. Of course, if a kid is mean, you're going to do X, Y, and Z. But the real Malik is to create a culture of AVA in the school and a culture of friendship. So, I think it's not. Of course, you need rules, dress codes, and y all this is true, but the icker in the tuffle, the icker has to be to make the girls feel proud in a crazy world of dress, proud of who they are. That's my non-answer to this question. >> It's a great answer. It reminds me of something we've spoken about here a lot from like control is not and like you know if we double down on the control and make everything about control in any area and in which is a very obviously a visible you can't it's hard to sneak it I mean it's like very controllable >> in school at least so if we make it about the control then we're missing the and it almost is counter to the so we have to always offset it that along with the control has to come a very healthy dose of to you know make sure that the control doesn't become the focus and it's so easy for it to become the focus like you know what's so interesting I was listening to a you're reminding me now we had a very hush of a speaker woman an older fa woman come to Houston I forgot who it was but like someone who goes around and speaks and she was talking about some Indian related to this and she said she was like 50 years old and she was on a ferry or 60 years old and she saw her basak of principal she said, "I'm I'm a grandmother." And her first reaction was to check that her skirt was the length that it's supposed to be. And she was saying like how how crazy that that's the association that she has with that person. It's like like when you see someone is that the first thing you want your your relationship between and >> right if I see my rebi and the first thing I think of is is my hat. >> Right. There's something off. Right. >> Right. Right. like like it should be about he cares about me or he's care wondering about me or I miss him or I love him but like do I look the way he would want me to look like that is not the goal of that. So, >> Rabbi, did did I mean maybe I should ask our listeners, did I ever share the story that happened with I know I shared it about the haircut with the boy in your school? >> Yes. >> But the my cam story I've shared >> about dress I don't remember. >> So, I'm going to share a story that happened. >> Hold on. Let's clock it in. The episode has been going on for 13 minutes and we are now talking about camp. Go ahead. >> Oh, yeah. So, this hap this story happened a while ago. not going to say how long ago and I'm trying not to give away the details because I'm sure this boy is going to be listening and his mother will be listening. But you know what? I'm going to say the story. I think it's okay. His name is Yankee. >> That's the name of all the boys in my stories. Yankee came to camp one year, showed up >> with a haircut unbecoming of a yeshiva boy. And this is a boy and I called his mother and I said, "What happened? I I knew this boy. What hap what happened?" and she said, "Yeah, he struggled this year." She she she wasn't sure. Bottom line is he walks into camp with a really really really what I felt was an inappropriate haircut. His counselor, a Matsuian Utsum, but very yesish, so had like just didn't know. He comes to me the first day like, "What are we doing here? What are we doing with this kid?" He walked into my bunk and he he looked like he's from who knows where. So, I'm not saying every case is like this and I'm not saying every scenario is different. I knew the boy. I knew the camp. I didn't think this boy's hair would bring down the rest of the bunk. So I said to his counselor, here's the deal. Yankee came in with a haircut that or a non-haircut, whatever it was. We are not going to say one word to him about his hair the entire summer. Machnik, it doesn't exist. We're going to ignore the hair. It's going to be hard. It's glaring. It sticks out. We're ignoring it. He's like, we crazy. That's what we're doing. And we did. So we did. And he had a wonderful summer. Again, he a boy. Whatever summer was. So mother calls me the day after camp ended. I remember where I was standing crying and she says show and follow the Yankee came home from camp. And he said, "Mommy, I'm ready for a regular haircut." And she said to him, "Why?" And he said, "Because finally they didn't judge me for my hair. They judged me for who I was. So I don't need my hair." >> Wow. This boy today ising. And it's a small small story but the point is we could have and I'm not saying that there are scenarios where control is important where you have to make a rule and it could ruin the environment of the kid you might what happens I'm I'm I'm using it's a muscle it's not you know do not use this at home right but the point is that we decided to fill him up as opposed to focusing on his one struggle or whatever it was it wasn't right on on his and and and I think there's a tremendous tales >> 100%. >> All right, let's go on the question now that we solved that one. >> Well, and anyways, there's a question that you didn't think was was real anyway. So, anything >> way there's no I mean, it was written by someone, but there's no way it reflects an actual reality. I don't believe maybe I'm too out of touch. >> Okay. >> You know, as we discussed with with Dr. Novik, right, we live in a in a society where our president speaks a little bit in exaggerations. So, we have picked up that uh I think I think the point is made. Fine. Speaking of sensitive topics, Rabbi, you win the sensitive question of the year so far. And I'm going to ask you the question. I will leave and come back and you let me know when you're done. >> And here we go. Why would someone ever live out of town? No. That's >> No, no, no. >> Maic isn't out of town. Cut it out. Don't stop putting down your own town. >> While while experience and wisdom grow with age, there is also the challenge of staying connected to the changing world of today's youth. Should yes prioritize keeping seasoned rebim even if many struggle to relate to the newer generation? How should yeshivas balance respect for experience with the evolving needs of tamidim? >> Wow, that is quite a I don't want to say toxic but a sensitive sensitive question that has to be handled extremely sensitively for so many reasons. Mostly because anyone who's a Rebi for that age, you're talking about someone who's getting up 65, 70, 75, whatever the age is, has committed their lives to Kalisrael. They are Tashmish Kadusha. They are a a a person who has committed years and years to the Helga work of of being mechanic children and they need to be treated with that respect by by all of us. Now the the challenge would be I I do not accept the premise that experience means you're less in touch at all. You know I don't think that's true at all. You could have rabam that are old and very in touch and are younger or totally out of touch. So I don't think it's a I don't think I would agree with that formulation of the question. But I but I would say that there are rebane who get older and less effective. So it's not it's not a function of age. it's a function of you know whatever else is going on or however they're burning out or whatever is going on with them. So the question I think that is a fair question to ask is how do you balance the need to be respectful of rebum who have committed their life to and are not at the same level that a younger person would be and like how do you how do you address that and you know so but I do want to say that it has nothing to do with with age like I said there are many older mankim who are exceptionally connected and aware and effective and that that's not a concern at all that's a gay that's actually a very that younger is better by definition, >> right? >> You know, certainly not a if anything is that, you know, we respect age. We we value age, we value experience. So that said, I would like to think that the work of this question is that every school should have a retirement plan that starts when the rebay are younger so that you don't get in this position and if you are in such a position the rebby no one wants to spend the money to support a rebi respectfully but if we're able to set up a scenario where there is sufficient funds I think most rebane would be okay stepping to a secondary position or a resource room. >> Depends how long you're in the school for, right? >> No matter how you're long. Let's say you're there for 36 years. That's three years of salary. >> Three and a half because you get paid 10 months a year. >> Okay. So now >> three and a half month. Three and a half. You're talking that's $300,000 or whatever something like that, right? >> That is not enough to live into your retirement if you're 70. The average life expectancy bar hashem is is much higher. The guy needs 15 years. >> So what so what are you suggesting? >> I'm suggesting that instead of let's take that scenario. The guy's 70 and he's been in the in in the mess for 36 years. So he gets three years or three and a half years. So if he takes a he's 73 and a half, okay, when he runs out of money. Now obviously he has to be smart about how he allocates that money. So he could be 76, but it's not enough money to live comfortably. Yep. So I would rather suggest that 36 years ago the school has a 403b or whatever kind of retirement plan and they do a 3 to 5% match and they encourage him to put away money for all those years and it grows for 36 years. You're dealing with a very different scenario. Plus the school can make sure he owns his house at a certain age so that you know that'll be a appreciating investment and then you know that's a whole different scenario. So, we don't do it because it's expensive and it's hard, but then, you know, you you uh have to live with the the the bed you make. And I don't have much rahman for a school that tells me they have a 70-year-old rebellion who's not effective and they don't know what to do because they can't afford it. I'm sorry. The guy committed his life to you and now it's time to pay up. I will just say that I'm very connected to yeshiva is I'm an there and they see it as a lifetime responsibility. I don't think they pay particularly well. I don't know specifically. I don't get the sense that, you know, they're very Baltimore in their salaries. Let's put it that way. But they recognize that you've committed yourself to their their kahila to their school Yeshiva and and they take care of you. I may have asked him and your almana. I don't know exactly the numbers, but they do it in a way that you're have an apartment. You can live there. You're taken care of. And that's really the way every ma should see their >> beautiful. I want to add a couple of of points when I got when I was part of my interview process five years ago to get the job in Chicago Manhattan. So they had a whole list of questions. How would you deal with this? How would you deal right and this they asked this question with I don't know this not exact language but this was a question how do you deal with with with rebim in general and then in the future and I said to them that I heard bishameski that this is the tough toughest question in >> really wow >> of of of right that being said I said to the board the way you make this question easier you should not be asking me this question you should be asking everyone in this room this question because as you said when When people find out what Rebane get paid, they don't believe it. Like, yeah, I'm sure the average rebby gets like 18 180, right? I mean, I mean, I know it's hard to live on 180, but we're not having that. >> We're not having a podcast about >> the 80 part, right? It's the one >> and they're like, what a starting salary for rebies is what? How? But how could he live? The answer is that we don't pay Arabame enough. >> Period. We want Arabame to be superstars. We want Arabame to be available at night. We want Arabame to be psychologists and therapists for our children. We want our bam to be gushmak and to be talented to have and know how to use a smartboard and and have all the different modalities and and we pay them a wage that is not livable and they live hand-to-mouth and every we're raising money for them. We as as we I know and I'm not breaking grounds, right? This is I know has been banging the tables at for a long time. This is something I don't have there's no good terrorists because yeshiva don't have money is a start. But if there was a way to make their entire career then when you get to that situation and scenario and you have to make that decision about the rebi if the reby's finances are set up as you said I think it becomes more tenable. I want to add we we in what do you call our our monthly meetings? Yeshiva leadership group. >> Yes. >> What's it called? >> Yeshiva leadership group. Absolutely. >> V Garfield in one of his many hats and scarves. You you run the yeshiva leadership group. It's a it's basically a you know a a chat room a kosher chat room for anal. It's an amazing amazing kra of man around the country. So we once I don't know if you remember this three years ago maybe we had a Garishian Miller from Detroit and this question was posed Gian Miller who's who's I don't know if he's a household name to everyone he should be an Adam Kash a really special person originally from from Gatesad Manchester some of that has an English accent and this question was posed and what he said was two things he said first of all it is a to have a school with just young incredible that 33 and 36 and were very young. There is as you said taken, but there's also not there's a certain that Rebby that's a little older, you know, and maybe, you know, isn't as fast as he used to be up the steps and and and you know, isn't able to play ball if they do the kids anymore. But the fact that he's and the fact that he has a certain, you know, serenity about him and he could talk about amuna in a way that that a that a 35year-old Rebi can't talk about. He said having a balance in the yeshiva is incredibly important and there are values that an older more experienced super experienced brings that a young rebi doesn't have. That being said, he did say that he felt because I think someone asked him does should I carate to a Rebi who's been this incredible Rebi for 30 years. Should that play a role in keeping the Rebi on even if listen maybe is not so whatever it is he's not up to but a sat. So his response was a little sharp I felt sharp but but he said who owes him a carat the mosid or the current boys in the class? The current boys in the class don't own a carat. They never had him. So it's unfair to use someone else's or to therefore if the Rebi isn't a good for this class to to to have these boys be the ones to be to someone that they don't have that to. There's an interesting spin. >> Yeah. Referiv once had that I tried to get a boy into Shotra and he didn't take him. So I called up my rebi and I said this p this person did a personal favor for common personal favor and I tried. I said Rabbi I I I wasn't a you know whatever it is. So common said to me was just a great line to get away when you don't want to accept kids into yeshiva said if he had done a ty for the yeshiva then should take his son I he did a personal for me after yes it's >> wow >> me to to to let someone into yeshiva because of something personal for me it's >> great >> right it's a good one it's a good one to keep but but yeah it's this is this is the the it's it's the toughest question in the world and there is also how you deal with an rebby toward the toward the end of their career how you pay them. >> I I don't think it's the toughest question. I hate to to disagree with Gersian Miller who said it was the toughest question or Gian Miller because it's a money question. >> It's not only a money question. It's not true. >> It's it's a lot of a money question. >> The these are rebeing that this is their this is their this is their life. This is their identity. They teach tyrant to children. That's how they get >> I know. But if they had enough money that they could continue to live nicely and learn and tutor and spend time with their grandkids and move to Lakewood to Jackson or wherever they move >> when they're ready, when they come to you in this area Garfield, I'm done. But what happens when you go to them and get to age whatever? And you're like, I I think it's time. And they're like, what are you talking about? How dare you? I'm rocking. So you tell them, no, I'm going to pay you off. >> It helps >> everything. Kessf Kess helps for everything, right? >> Yeah. I'm saying I I think most of the cases if you look at it, you know, a lot of it has to do with the pressure, financial pressure, >> right? So, so then like I think Berlin has a mandatory retirement age, correct? Age of 70. >> Correct. >> YSB I don't want to speak about the YSBas are trying to create >> but I want to know what they do. I I'm sure Berlin would imagine that they take care of a rebi you know they don't just drop you there with >> that was made what 50 years. I don't know what the source of that is but the world it's but but if you if you you have to real for 30 years is $350,000 that's not bad severance so person right retirement funds right >> that is bad if it is bad if you talk to a retirement planner about how much money you need to live in retirement they tell you I've had those conversations it's a lot more than >> right of course I know it but it but it's but it's It's definitely a >> and the rebi can't put away money all the years because he's poor, >> right? >> So, so it's a self-fulfilling issue. He that's why the mis has to facilitate him to put away the money. By the way, they're also putting away money. You take off the from what they put in. >> So, you know, the the mis is also saving I guess you know setting >> is above salary. You're not taking it out of the salary. >> No, but let's imagine if Arab's making 100,000, right? >> Which is a nice imagination by the way. Right. If if you would take a a a poll of what percentage of RBE are making $100,000, it would be in the it would be 1%. >> Right. No, no, I know. No one is. I just want to keep the numbers easy. >> Okay. No, but I think it's important for people to know they're not making $100,000. How crazy is that? >> Okay. Fine. $50,000. So So 3% is 1,500. So if he puts 1,500, >> right? >> The school will put 1,500. The 1,500 that the school puts is on top of his 50, right? Okay. So, they're really paying him 51,500. Right. That 1,500 is used off of at the end. Meanwhile, the rabbi has put away 1500. >> It's off. It's instead of >> Well, you have to do the math that it should. Yeah. Meaning that counts towards the debt. >> Towards. Okay. >> But meanwhile, he's getting the interest or whatever investment of of 30 years off that >> and the group is saving because he's taking off one and a half. No, he's not saving. They're not saving. It's not necessarily saving, but but his money is going to grow at a much higher rate. Plus, he puts away three of his own, like 1,500 of his own, >> right? >> And it and it compounds. You know how that works. Like the 3,000 if it goes up x%. >> You keep every year it compounds on its own. So, you know, I think that that it's not it's not a full solution, but it's a very significant step. And I'm proud to say our school does that. And I and I'm looking forward to hearing that Victown of Manhattan joins us as well. You know the the challenge is that if a rebi is he only gets of 30 years if he's in your for 30 years but what happens when he's he's been a rebi for 35 years but he's only by you for 12 >> that's the beauty of the system is he takes it with him >> right >> you don't lose your 403b when you go from school A to school B >> right right >> you know so in theory if everyone would just agree to do this it would help everyone and I think terms tried it in meetings and and then the principal president's conference they act about it but But it's the kind of thing like, you know, everyone has to do it. >> Yeah. Right. Everyone has to do it. And it's about money. It's about the the community who all we want is ourame and and if we could pay arame another I don't know. I mean talking about a lot of money but $50,000 more for each rebi. >> That's another para. >> But that doesn't I'm talking about retirement. We're talking right now about older who need to retire who don't have the financial ability to do it. Bakas. They have to do it but not bakas. Okay. Let's move on to our spotlight question. >> Oh, very good. I like the way you did that. >> We need to get some kind of like cool music in there. Maybe we could talk to postp production about that. So, we could say >> spotlight question. All right, here we go. Okay, go ahead. You read it, Ryan. So, you read it with seriousness. >> I'll try to read it with seriousness. Dear TLC, my teenage son and daughter come home every week with another part of their upbringing that is quote unquote against. Concerts are press sports is Harry Potter is family vacations. On and on and on. How can we be expected to raise healthy and wellbalanced kids if every mode of entertainment and fun is looked down on? >> Okay. >> The end of the question. >> Yeah. Wow. >> So, I asked it. So, you get to discuss it first. This is >> I wasn't ready. >> It's one of those questions before you bring on and you'll introduce our guest, but before we bring on our spotlight guest of the week. >> The challenge with with a question like this, it is so tully on where you live and who what part of right is this person live in Mardim? Does this person live in I don't want to say other neighborhoods, right? But there are different neighborhoods that different standards whether all of these concerts, sports, Harry Potter, family vacations. So it's it's very hard to for me and you to have a conversation doastic right micro as opposed to macro because and I'll you know because it's so vast me and you are not the reby of these parents. >> You're saying Harry Potter and Ben Brock is not Harry Potter in Houston. >> Correct. >> Yeah. >> Correct. And I I mean I'll just share that a a mother called me this year her they got tickets uh to a sporting event and she wanted to know she said I have a bunch of older kids. I've never taken them to a game. We never take them to a game. We got these free tickets. My son is in third grade. Do you think we should take them? And I said Mrs. Goldstein I don't think you should take them. You should send them to me so I can take my kids. I said to her I go to sports games. I take my kids to sports games. I maybe I have a little bit of a a hide so no one can see who that I'm there. Well, talk about that separately of of which people I've met at sports games. I've taken some sports games, but I said if your family does not follow sports and doesn't go to sports games, then just because you got free tickets, you should not take your son to a sport game, you know. >> Right. That's not a reason to change your whole Ashkava. >> Right. Right. represent and yeah I was just going to say that like my reaction is a little like parents play a bigger role in this than the school like I would tell my kid okay that's what your school said but our family is comfortable you know and like trying to balance that >> in missa I think the missifas are impactful and make a big imprint on the hashkuffa of that child >> that's true okay well we're lucky we have a a true mechanic an expert someone who really has put a lot of thought into these matters with us Our spotlight guest is Rabbi Nelson Mueller the Manali of Shiva Jonah Dax Byakov in Chicago and the renowned mechan public speaker Rab welcome Rabbi Mueller. >> Thank you. Thank you everybody. Good to be here. >> Okay so welcome Rabbi Mueller. We are talking about the issue of culture entertainment and how to find the right balance between you know a home ashkafa and a school ashkafa and then just the general sort of stance that so many of the things that our kids find themselves doing become user or become inappropriate. It's almost like you know you could almost predict when you see something trending that it's going to be asserted soon. Remember those spin toys? I don't know if they're still around >> fidget spinner with a fidget spinner. Did you ask for them in your schools? >> Actually, >> no. What do you mean? If I asked them, what would I use? >> I remember at first they're like, "Should we answer it?" I'm like, "It's not worth it. They'll come out with the next thing before we answer it. >> We got crazy bones, you know, everything. Every there's always going to be something." >> But I But I think it goes the other way. It goes the other way, too. I think the things that they answered when we were kids were, you know, today they're like, "We wish the kids would be into that." Like, you know, like like Moraba was like the worst thing ever. And now we're like with all the songs and music going on, please bring him back. You know, he should be vis I love listening to him. But but you know, we got we got bigger problems than that today. Right. So I want to jump right to that muller because there's this thing of of the reason why we have to ask all these things. It used to be you could go to a bowl game and it was SNES. It used to be you could go to a concert and it was and nowadays everything is much worse. But 30 years ago they were saying the same used to be right in the 1970s they were saying oh after the Beatles came out what happened to music and sports it used to be they wore hats to Yankee Stadium and now they don't wear hats there's always the freed gesser right there's always what used to be was better so and in 30 years from now I don't know what's going to be but oh isn't that true >> so I guess the question is you're telling me oh I the 1960s sports games were fine to go to the reason why we were allowed to go to games in the 60s or watch cartoons in the 80s is because they were fine then. But 30 years ago, it was the same shai from the there were plenty of people that were screaming then that these things are horrible. >> I mean, listen, I I could tell you, you know, a basketball game, for example, like when I was a kid, there were no cheerleaders and dancers and all this stuff. It they didn't have that. The 76ers at the Spectrum with Julius the Dr. Irving. I'm telling you, >> you was sitting so high up, you didn't have >> No. And even even the screens, even even those those huge mega screens, you know, nothing nothing happened, you know, but during the seventh inning stretch, they would go around and you'd wave and, you know, somebody would always stick their tongue out and that was it. Today, what they're showing on the screens and, you know, it's not the game that's that's so bad as much as the commercials and everything else that that comes along with it. >> I was shocked. I went to a Dallas Stars game maybe 10 years ago. I live in Houston. We don't have a a hockey team, but Dallas has a hockey team. says, "Oh, we could go see a hockey game." They had cheerleaders at a hockey game. I couldn't believe. >> Wow. I didn't know that. Cuz I always tell parents, if you got to go to a game, whatever. You know, you you need to give yourself some that outlet, do a hockey game because there it's it's it's >> right. Well, I don't know. Maybe it's only a Dallas thing, but I was shocked. I mean, I can't speak. That's the only game I've been to. >> Rabo, could you give us, you know, a little bit of, I guess, your bird's eye view of this suga of finding that you want your kids to be kosher entertainment. Rabbi Schaeville, why don't you read him the question? >> Yes, Rabbi Garfield didn't like the question, so I'm going to read it. My teenage son and daughter come home every week with another part of the upbringing that is quote unquote against concerts are pressed. Sports is Harry Potter is family vacations on and on and on. How can we be expected to raise healthy and wellbalanced kids if every mode of entertainment and fun is looked down on? >> Change their school or move out of town. You just labeled a lot of things there. Again, I I could see sometimes what's wrong with the concert, sometimes what's wrong with sports, sometimes what's wrong with Harry Potter, but but it's it's all relative and I think you started with that word called balance. That is the key word to is balance. There's got to be balance. First of all, you got to know your child. You got to know your city. You got to know your school. You got to know your people. It doesn't always mean the whole family is the same. I think, you know, Manuel said that a long time ago. Let's just pick one of them. Sports. You know, I think sports is an unbelievably healthy outlet. First of all, for sure to play. It's it's important. If you know, almost I would tell you if if your son is not good at sports, buy someone to teach him how to play. Most kids need that. They need that following sports. You know, it's something that we all get swept away with. Most of us and you look at a lot of Israel today, previous generation, you talked about good, wholesome today, who are huge fans. And you're talking to one of them right now. Montreal Canadians was we lived it. But but that was maybe a little bit the problem. We lived it. Lived it is something that I do talk about a little bit to the boys. You know, even even if you're going to follow a sports team, don't live it. Don't don't idolize the boys. You want to say, you know, when I say the boys, I don't mean I mean the players. Don't don't idolize them. They they're not our friends. They're not the people we look up to. So on and so forth. But I I'd rather a boy, you know, throw himself into sports a little bit or even, you know, music as long as it's good music, which we could talk about soon, but but do that because >> I I want to ask you a sports question. I won't be about to Canadians, but I want to ask you a sports question. I don't know what happens in Chicago. My sister I cards on the table. My sister works for you in in Chicago. Mrs. Lavitz and Rafal is a Tom of I know. So whereas yeah, so I don't know what they did in Houston. I don't know what they did in in in in Chicago. Super seder, right? This is a thing that certain Yeshivas did by the Super Bowl. They incentivized boys. Forget not I'm leaving BetterH out of this. Sixth, seventh, eighth graders. There was a certain push in yeshiva not to watch the game. There was a sader obvious the night of the game. Is that a great thing? Is that a power thing? Or is that maybe not? Where where I don't know what you did, but where do you land on Super Seder? We didn't do it for for various reasons. Again, we're we're the city mister. We're a city school. There's a a lot of people who wouldn't, let's put it this way, the spectrum is there's a lot of people who wouldn't dream of of of watching the Super Bowl and like almost like what are you doing? We're not watching it anyways. And then there are some people that no matter what you're going to offer, they're not coming to the super seder anyways. So you're dealing with the the in between. I'm really serious. It's like it's like interesting. The the in between part that you're going to get because you're going to give him a few chicken nuggets and French fries that he's not going to go watch the game is is very few far and beyond. So what usually happens is that all the people who don't watch have this great supper, which I'm very happy for them, but it didn't do so much of pulling away a guy who was really really going to watch the game. Well, we do talk. >> But would you be interested in pulling away? >> Again, if a boy is is serious about it, I I don't I don't see why not. Listen, you can't compare black Amara to anything else in the world, right? So, the answer is yes. >> No, what I mean is and there are boys in Mayish, we did not have super sad. There were boys that were proud of the fact they did not watch the game. They learned, you know, at that time I remember elementary school boys, we have we have boys. But but the message of Super Seder is a way of saying that that watching the Super Bowl, which is something that that for better or for worse most people do, is wrong. Right. That's it's it's a it's a it's a statement and that kids therefore the kids who go to watch the game and don't go to Super Seder now feel like they're maybe doing the wrong thing. >> It's all in presentation. Again, I'm I'm I'm a little guy, but we we've all been there, done that, and Bam turned out pretty good. pretty good. We're actually doing a podcast together. So, so it's not so bad. It's not so bad. So, to say that it's it's it's you're degrading the other boy, I I wouldn't go that far. I really wouldn't. That being said, again, we don't do it in our Yeshiva, but I will talk about it. Come out every year, the Friday before during the the kind of it's not a Super Bowl, but there'll be a reference to to something happening on Sunday. And just remember who we are and just remember who they are. And just remember not to get carried away so on and so forth. >> You know with my own children I have a a rule. We we don't do rules go for the record because we want influence not power. But one of the things that I was tried very hard to be makan is I don't let them buy jersey with names of athletes on the back for a long time. Not saying I won that throughout our but for this nuda follow sports but but we don't wear their names on our backs. And don't don't say I but I saw your son last you know I'm not saying I won every battle but but you know the idea of hanging up posters in rooms and you know and and and the jerseys or name in the back you know I had a tom once came he was so excited he showed me some I think a towel or something a sock that an athlete threw at him after a game and I right I said I hope you know hopefully you don't get any diseases but it was it was like that's that to me is the gather of following it. It's fun. It's exciting. Yeah. Okay. Next, concerts. We're going to We'll see how much time we have when we run out of time. Concerts. So, so con concerts creates a little bit of a of a of a different issue. Again, it's not so much the singer. If you're going if you're going, you know, it's almost if you go to, you know, a Beat Hovven would be would be, you know, somewhere out there and he's, you know, he's shooting holding a concert and, you know, you like to listen to certain types of music, it could be calming, it could be inspiring, it could be obviously if it's either music, but I'm just I'm going I'm going all the way to the left. You know, again, it's it's part of the atmosphere like like like we said earlier, you go to a baseball game 40 years ago, there was everyone dressed properly. There was no commercials. There was no blaring. Who knows what going on? Okay, you you knew if the person next to you was a male or a female. It's it's all different today. So, so you know when you go to the concert and and you know if they're singing, let's let's just change the word concert to kumitz and you have a whole different question. Correct. >> Why isn't it the same thing? What's the difference between concert and kumitz? One thing is different. Kumitz conotes uh >> one makes money. No inspiration. >> Yeah, I know. I know. I meant this because something there's ty there's tyken a person could grow a person could is unbelievable you know I don't think most people are going to concerts to grow and and and on the contrary many times as you've seen and heard you know there could be tuists there could be preachers there could be you know improper behaviors and then that's we put our foot down we say no we we we don't do these things now if it's a children's concert it's different let's say again just for no better Miami Boys remember Silva Zmer all those things and and you go do that or Uncle Mishi concert you know that you're not going to have Kai you're not going to have preach so if you really need to take your child like we said earlier if you got to go to the game go to a hockey game except for in in Houston if you got to do it do there so then I would say to if you got to go to a concert make make sure it's an uncle concert make sure it's a it's >> you know so on and so forth it's not >> I remember after after co we had Joey Nukem come it was you know I don't know how popular he was. I wasn't familiar with him. >> It was so inspirational the whole place cuz we were like so cooped up, you know, like we needed to let it out and he lit Joey's a holy brother and again his style is is totally different and and his sura is different and and you just pointed, you know, what about an Abish brought concert. I mean, come on. >> You're not going to ask that question. You're not going to ask that. I thought that's >> so it's it's you know, it's not fair question. Parents have to realize and know what yes, what no where the boundaries, you know, and again, not fall for the Kool-Aid of everybody's going and everybody has it. You know, that's like we all know that. We've heard it so many times. We've tried it on our own parents so many times. >> Let let me ask you a maybe like a macro as opposed to macro. Forget any of these specifics, concerts or or sports, Harry Potter. It seems to me that and maybe I don't want to give you the answer that it used to be that rashiba's raanim parents children the culture was not something that we ran away from reading novels right reading newspapers you know following sports that you know that culturally being part of American culture was it was you know done we become a much much more sheltered insulated better word thank you society now there's a lot of there's a lot of possibilities for why do you do you first of all do you agree with that >> not at all I disagree fully we we we become so much more open and so it's just the world has become crazier our our doors have opened much wider we're we're listening to more eating more we're going more places I'm ask you a question 10 years ago you know you know anybody 10 years ago went to the Bahamas what do you mean we're getting more now Are you kidding me? You know how many restaurants there are on one street in any town, any kosher that even used Houston? Are you kidding me? We are becoming more and more and more and more open and that's why we're having these podcasts and that's why we're having all the issues because nobody knows where the boundaries are going and how much we're spreading out. And where do we stop? Because it's seeping in all over. I'm not saying word to blame. The world has gotten crazier. But but you knew anybody 10 years ago went to the Bahamas. You ever met a guy who went to to Mexico? How many kids went to I had one boy in my class who went to Florida for midwinter one. >> I I never got on a plane growing up so I I would I wouldn't know. So it's interesting because you're making it you're you're you're comparing Rabbi Mueller which is I'm I'm I'm like this conversation was all about hashkafa and culture and sports and you're saying that to you that's the same. It's such a good insight because he's saying that the the hashkafa is seeping in in ways that you don't we don't appreciate it. >> Right. Exactly. Because you turn the table and >> it's kosher because it's it's a glot kosher Cancun hotel or whatever. So you think it's kosher but fundamentally the idea that we have to go to Cancun is a tra idea >> that you have to again everything everything is perspective. Everything is how you label it and really really everything is how you look at it. And that's why it's hard to you know say okay this family should it's good there are certain families that might have to go certain places and you know whether it's for Shan buyers whether it's for one of the children so there are so many reasons why you should and I will encourage sometimes a father to take a boy to a game I will but but threequarters of my school I won't you remind me of a story my father was once asked to speak a r for a long time retired recently was asked to speak in a pretty affluent community and the topic was he was asked to speak onne and he got up and he spoke about expensive cars and homes and vacations you know like like is right that sometimes we get so focused on Harry Potter that we forget this so instead of reading Harry Potter you're going to read I don't know what and in that magazine that you're bringing in >> and by the way it's not you're saying it as if it might happen I I know so many people like that I know so many people like that who haven't brought in let's call it the Jewish newspapers and and again I'm not giving out scum here on any newspaper or on any magazine but I can tell you and and again there's fault with with everything right we can always become better people right we can we can we can always work on everything and anything but what are the options and and what are what what's the alternative so you're going to tell your son you can't read this newspaper or this or this magazine and so on and so forth again if it's tra it's t I'm not I'm not but we're talking about stretching the boundaries what when do we say Yes. When do we say no? What's the balance? Every parent has to think beforehand. >> What's the option? What are the alternatives? We can't just lock everybody up and you know you can go and that's the same thing of going to that concert, you know, to say no concert, no sports, no 24/6. You you can't do that. You can't say that. You can't say those things because because we're too big of a se and the world is growing very fast. And and I wonder if this is like an out of town like a perspective. I'd like to know what you know Chicago and in New York. It's >> I was in Lakewood for 25 years. I was a rebby an eighth grade rebby in Shiva 3 by Rey Gwex and then I was manal for eight years in Tusana's comates in Brooklyn. >> Take that take that for out of town Garfield. You're talking to a New Yorker and no I consider Chicago but I grew up closer to >> I grew up in Montreal Quebec. So, so >> okay, you have all my >> 51st the 51st stage fr So so >> Oh, here we go. Here we go. I'm just I've seen it all and and and and you know this is my question. I want to you know >> I know I'm close with many rebs when many you know had connection with with it's not there's a broad perspective here and again it all depends you cannot make a a blanket statement this is us or this it just can't >> my my question is that it seems to me for my kids who go from Houston to to some of them went to schools in yeshivas in New York or camp there's much more of a group think in town meaning I feel as a parent in Houston that I could influence my children's entertainment or what we do a lot more than I feel like in in town there's like this group expectation like this thing you were saying like everyone does it you know >> the mob mentality >> mob mentality is that true and what would you advise people parents who are like experiencing that where they feel like you know there's 50 kids in their children's grade or 100 and they're all wearing a certain backpack or I don't know like when you go to camp I know we send our kids to the like you have to be exact in this. >> Well, who's talking camp? They were not talking camp on this. >> Girls camp, not boys camp. >> Oh, okay. Good, good, good. >> So, you know, how does one address that? >> So, it's a that's a great question. I I do think in the smaller city, which I'm not going to call Chicago a small city, you have more of that. Like you said, the the first thing you got to do is you got to check out, you know, verify. Is it true? is everybody have, you know, this knapsack, this bike, these sneakers, these shoes, these this this headband, whatever, whatever, whatever it might be. Paper clips are already a style. You know what I'm saying? Everything has become something. So, you need to to really know if that's the clientele. If yes, and you've chosen, you've made this decision for your family to move to Houston and and and or any other small community and that's what they do there, then you you've made yourself a decision. And it would be almost unfair to tell your child if your 50 kids in your class are doing it, 51 are not. Now there are people who have been successful doing that. Where I found it a lot is like when you know almost more successful when it's like you know the a type of place where you know it's everyone's bala except for them like he's the rub who's being macar the whole city or there's oneb and every but nobody else is kasidish. So then there's such a stalt of who we are. We're the reb's children. We're the rashiba's children. So then somehow they they're they're they enable their family to feel so and fill it in with different things. They give them more potato co what whatever they're doing they somehow manage to to keep everybody afloat and heads above water. Usually unfortunately one or two kids can't handle it. Let's be open and honest. But the regular guy who's moving to a town and all there is is one class, one school and everybody's doing it. You got to do it. Unless again, of course, it's something that's clearly Trey or your your RV tells you, hey, this is no way user. But if your RV is the one who told you to go to Houston, then I'm assuming he holds going to the to the game is not the worst thing. >> I think in Houston there's more diversity. So you you could get away with more individual. But I think in town, you know, is where the problem is. There's like less diversity. >> You see the katana of Manhattan. How's that for in town? >> Is that is I don't know that clientele so well. >> It's not an in town. our clientele go is is about as diverse you know as as it comes >> again but there there are there are standards every parent and every family is entitled is entitled and and should I don't want to use the word enforce because we don't use that word but we we use the we don't use rules here either the word is expectations there are certain expectations that that that our family has certain expectation that our you know our our our school has our our our parents have we want our children to have Hopefully most of them go with the flow. And again, a big part of it is making them feel >> proud to be who they are. >> So if we do that, then then you don't have to fight with your child to watch the Super Bowl or other things or or read Harry Potter because in all honesty, let's go back to 40 years ago. Again, we're all giving away our age here. There was nothing else to read. So, you know, okay, today there is so much to read. There is so much we saw chocolate there. There is so much we I didn't have saw ice cream in Montreal growing up. We didn't have it. We had seal test ice cream. It was very good. We didn't have it. What was it? Seal test. >> You didn't have Carell. That's an Americanisha food. Carville. >> Hagenaz. >> Hagen. We cross. No. Because I remember when we crossed the border we had it. Kobe. Now there is. I'm telling you that's what we had every day. So So it's like today there's so much there's so much good reading material we can give our children. There's so much good music we can give. It we didn't have that. You know, if if we were to have listened to that one rebi who asked Morai David, I'm really serious, we would have to almost have to go to Gishian music. It's not the case today. There's 75 75 there's a thousand singers out there. So there's so much on the table. There's there's such a smorgas board. You know, I think you started your question was what how do we like limit and and and shield our children? I I think it's just the opposite. There's so much out there. There's so much out there to give our children music-wise, sports-wise, activity wise. There's so many innovative people. You know, we started now in Aushhiba. We have an afterchool program. We have a father in our school who's running a soccer program for the younger kids. We just started now a chess program. We have 40 boys who signed up for chess after school. We have a choir just, you know, and they they perform twice twice a year by the dinner and by Kaneka. It's great. These these are healthy good outlets playing instruments. The Walder Center in Chicago does has, you know, a science center. There's so much that we didn't have when I had to do something. I have to go to the Y in Montreal and try and break my teeth speaking French to people like like Rab Garfield just tried. We we So there's so much out there in a sense. We just have to be strong enough to you know be be balanced and and and keep the guards up what's kosher, what's not and everybody. So what what what parting advice you know as we wrap up would you give a parent who is uncomfortable with what their children want to do but lice most of the kids are doing it. How would you how would you say a parent should assess you know most kids are watching the Super Bowl let's say as an example the parents not really comfortable with that >> but twothirds of the boys in the class wherever it is are doing it. It's like any question, it really depends. If if if you can if you can easily take him out for pizza and and buy him over or take him to the Super Serb obviously that's the easiest way to go. But if you have a child and there are so many out there, boys and girls who for whatever reason have a bigger burning desire for fill in the blank. Sometimes it's food, sometimes it's videos, sometimes it's sports. There are children like that. We've seen it and knows that. So then it's dangerous. Then then you you have to speak to your local Makal RV who understands who understands first of all obviously who knows your family who knows the child and and you got to you got to barter meaning meaning let's just go to the Super Bowl we're watching two quarters no commercials certainly bomb show this >> I had a parent who called and it was a younger kid and they from Shiva katana and there were a bunch of boys watching the Super Bowl the parents didn't want it so much what should they do with their son so I said I think there is social value in him he was young very young, they're not staying up for the whole game. But if he at least can see the first 10 minutes of the game so that he knows the names of the teams, he knows the names of the quarterbacks, he saw a play, he could talk at the lunch table, I said, "Let him watch for 10 minutes and then and then turn it off because this way at least he's not an outcast and feeling proud of it." And I have this when when I moved from Lakewood to Chicago and you know, Supo was a bigger thing here than Lakewood, you know, at least nine years ago. So my son my son was in seventh grade. comes home something. He heard something about the Super Bowl and he really wants to exactly what you said. He wants to be part of this tomorrow morning. So I wasn't as like if there's another social piece here. >> We have to set that's that's the the the after the podcast conversation of how we what do we do with our children but that's not for >> but no a lot of I said you know listen to it. I told him to listen to it on the radio and and and you know not he was sleeping within 10 minutes it was in his ear. He fell asleep and and it was all over and like you said he felt good. I didn't I empathized I validated and and you know we gave him that piece it wasn't and it was over by the next morning there was nothing nothing nothing terrible happened. >> Yeah that's a very insightful thing again Ryan Muller about finding that balance right and knowing that >> but to to to scream and say it's Trey and this and that unless it's really t don't not not >> I'm going to call you back when the Chicago Bears are in the Super Bowl. We're going to have another conversation about this by the way. >> All right Ray Muller, thank you so much. We really appreciate you coming on and sharing your insight and you really did give us a lot to think about. So we appreciate it so much. >> Take care. >> That was really really awesome. um a great conversation with a uh with a and really there there's I get rebar from speaking to people and insightful people and and and that and I and I think you know I think it's not just manalum I think rebim kids I think our system is so much better than it ever has been in terms of the way in which we approach parenting and children and gifted children and struggling children and and just all different areas of of this and every time we bring in a manal like like this who you just hear the balance you hear the the the pick >> the insight the real understanding of kids like what they need and how to make sure you're not overreacting and it it's a real it's a real art it's a real art >> it really really is we are lucky we have uh man Mueller around and and and and thinking and leading and yes, it really was good. >> So wonderful. >> Wonderful. Before we sign up, I think I think you part of your I think it's in the fine print of your contract is you have to give the email. I don't give the email. That's not I don't give email. You have to give the email. >> I get my hands dirty with that. But I would say that we've been getting great questions. I wish a little that we could do a few more each time because right now, thank God we have, you know, whatever number of great questions in the in the uh in the >> hopper. And the hopper and the hopper >> in the hopper. But uh we still will put out the email because it is >> when are we gonna have regardful when are we gonna have like one of those like live events with parents and take questions and do like a road show >> like a gorilla conference. >> No, no, I don't mean live like that. I mean like a zoom where you invite parents on to like a a Zoom, you know what I mean? And then you take questions from the audience. >> You know what? If our if our listening audience wants that, they should send us an email to the learning curve.com. Uh, please send us any of your questions, comments, or or ideas. We love hearing from our listeners at the learning curve at mishbah.com. And please make sure to share our podcast with anyone you think would enjoy it and or they wouldn't enjoy it. >> And we are now on No, we are now on the solo. We got we became not just we're not a podcast. We're I think I think it's under Hashkafa and Tyra. So the the bakim that have been begging me to to get. Yeah. the Bakram now in um all the different yeshivas in Shotyra in Schwarz's in in in Clifton all these Bakam they were looking to get involved now they are all right Garfield all right the best pleasure as always take care >> take