S2 Eps 14. Let's Talk Anxiety (feat. Shifi Lieberman, LMFT)

I don't believe that parents realize what it takes out of a manal that has hundreds of kids under his wing to try to pick out those boys and really try to give them proper attention. >> They're hearing the child's perspective. They're hearing the child's story. They're not there. It always sounds worse when you're not there. >> Here you are punishing him with my movie that everyone else should not learn from him. diet. You cannot do that if he doesn't deserve it on his own. >> Welcome to the learning curve podcast brought to you by Mishbaha magazine. >> We are raising children in a changing and challenging world. >> So let's tackle the important issues facing from families today. I am Rabbi Garfield Manal of Yeshiva Terrace Emis in Houston and I love talking about >> I am Rabbi Iris Shfeld Manala Katana of Manhattan base tipper of Manhattan and director of camp. I also love talking and sometimes fishing. >> Join us as we answer your questions and discuss the topics that matter to parents the most. >> And welcome back to the learning curve. >> Oh yeah. >> Yes. The summer months are upon us. Not just spring, but summer months are upon us. We just came back from an invigorating Manal conference that I think you rabbi had a lot to do with. >> Yeah. Yeah. I was on the committee to help uh get it going and we started, this is the third year. We started with 60 Manal and then we went to 80 and now we're like 110 120 I don't even know. It was really successful. Great energy and a great group from all over the country. It really is the the like a group therapy session when and that saba the commonality and we'll talk about it a little bit and we'll hear about later um of really I think the strides Ali and the from world has made in leadership and in understanding children is really it was it was palpable um at the uh invention in the illustrious resort in Stanford Connecticut um emphasis on the word illustrious Um but we we have a special program in that we recorded this was our first right we had a live recording with me and you were actually saw each other >> you're much smaller in person you know I I felt >> um and we we interviewed a bunch of man together side by side at the night that was a lot of fun and we'll we'll play that soon um but let's recap happy recap um of the uh Manales conference give me a takeaway rabbi tell me something special. Go. >> Oh my gosh, we had so many, you know, wonderful speakers. So, there's a lot of things to take away, but I guess something that I don't know if it's come as a surprise, but would be of interest to our listeners is we had Rabbi Ram Fukandler. For those who don't know, he's the, you know, he's a he's a businessman, successful businessman who's been the main supporter of Yeshua in Berlin and the president and etc. for for many many years and he's made a real investment in his life into that community. So he came and spoke about different big picture issues that he has seen and he was extremely passionate about the need for us manal to advocate for higher wages for rebane and this is something like everyone gives lip service too. >> We discussed it recently a little bit the need at least or the need. >> Yeah. >> Right. >> Right. We were talking about retirement I think in that context. But he was he was talking about you know that basically he was saying that there are some in some environments like in a uh in the type of work that he does sometimes a secretary in a in a corporate environment can make more than the revy and how absurd that is and that he really was putting it on us to go to >> but is that's not fair to put it on us. We're not. We need medium paychecks ourselves. And know we're not the board. We're not Yes and no. Because we do we do own Listen, it's a group. We all are responsible. If you're listening to this, good news. You're also responsible. Okay? So, we're all responsible. But that said, I advocate for things that I feel are absolutely necessary in my school and I do with passion. Let's say we need to split a grade. We have a grade that has 25 students or 26. Do we need to split it? Do we not? It certainly saves money to keep them together, but I might advocate and say to the board like we absolutely need to split this for there's nothing to talk about, right? And that is going to carry weight. So, you know, I am willing to own to some extent that we need to push and we need to advocate and we are at our school. We are we we try to take care of Arabam and Moas and general studies everybody more and more and more along with everything else. But what what I guess Rabbi Fandamler's number was interesting. He shared that the package that he gives his now granted it's New York Brooklyn is $120,000. >> What does that mean? Package. How many years is a Rebi in Kimberlin? Talk to me. >> I don't have the details, but that was the number he said that I guess the average what they consider they pay is, you know, I think there's some parsonage, maybe some yontiff bonuses. Maybe maybe it's 110 plus 10. And like I wasn't clear but he said it was 120 broadly and he was saying like you know reb have to be getting more and more and uh so I thought you know all of us walked out it was a little stunning to be honest but listen I think that's something we all need to hear as cla grow >> as much as that number is not what most professions make that's still a stunning number for most who make half of that >> correct but at the same time you know who thinks you could live on less than that no one mathematically it just doesn't work and he was uh imploring us to join him in this sort of advocacy and uh okay you know it was inspiring it was meaningful and I think anyone listening should know that this is on our minds you know I don't think I think we're getting good rebain but we're they're really living difficult lives and uh let's not forget it what about you what is something that you walked away with >> I want to share something I already quoted back in yeshiva we're back only a couple of days since the convention and an unbelievable statistic or an anecdote from Dr. David Lieberman. But first from Rabbi Uri Deutsch Rabi Deutsch who was my first time sitting in an audience Deutsch who was very very special. It was a very special um just and a to hear the the kite and the the the care and the drive and the thoughtfulness very um doesn't need my scama but very nonetheless. And he said something imploring us man Allan to think about something and I quoted him today to a parent. >> Wow. >> Sitting with a parent >> and the debate was what to do with the child for next year. You know hold you know one of those things and I said to the mother I said I have my opinion and the other administrator has our opinion but I was just at a term man conference and an Urich begged us no one knows a trial better than the Yiddish amalo. And I said to the father, he didn't say yiddishata maybe a little, right? But the yiddish sham. And I said to the mother who had who had insights, who had thoughts, who cared. And I said, we are partners in this. I don't know your child so well. A child was young and it was it was why they tried to come to our school. What do we do with the child? I said, you know your child better than we do. You're the Yiddish man. And it was it was such a a light bulb moment. We you know, we like to say it. Yes. mother knows best but but what to hear it from a rub's perspective was I to me was really it was >> that was beautiful and it it is uh such an important lesson something else he said and it is very much related but not the exact same thing he was talking about I I forgot if it was about policing vaping or technology but basically he said the school can't set a standard that's not the reality for that child at home and in his world so like in the reality of his world adults are vaping I was vaping technology or maybe both. I think he said it both in both contexts. If like technology is part of his world and vaping is part of his world for good or for bad, but that's just his world. And then school wants to take a stand that's totally out of touch with that. It creates a really unsustainable situation. And he's like the schools go ahead and they sh and this is user gummer and whatever the words are. And like the adults in the kid's life are broadly doing that. He's like it's an impossible situation. It's a message that won't be successful and it really doesn't ring true and therefore it's there's no end. He said better you should educate about it in a realistic way I think is the message I don't want to misquote him but that's going to be more effective. Did you hear that? >> Yes. Yes. He he was talking about challenges that I don't want to say which which vice but certain you know certain some of the one of these some of these tendencies where are even seen doing it in public. So how can you tell the kid not to vape if he has right but he he he did delineate I thought the difference between as you said shring against it screaming against it and this is very cultural you know there are certain communities that this is a much bigger challenge than others the technology and and you know whether it's vaping smoking I'm drinking all of that but he did say that there is something called school rules and you're of course a responsible and it's a demand on you to set a standard in your school but when You try to get into the hashkuffic push and yet the kid goes home on chabas as you said smartphones vaping drinking right and and all of a sudden people are doing it it becomes very very challenging I I want to share an amazing anecdote from Dr. David Lieberman who was awesome oh wow I could have you know for someone who doesn't like to sit so long that was great >> people full of for those who have never heard of him you can go to Torah anytime and type in Dr. David Lieberman. He has loads of great stuff. >> He said the most unbelievable two anecdotes that were perfectly related and he was speaking about the power of listening and just being there for a parent. Um being there for kids and it's unrelated to whether you say yes or no. That was the most unbelievable thing he kept stressing. It's not about giving into the kid what he wants. It's about hearing him out. And he said a study was done. You remember the study with 200 felons >> with 2500 people sitting in jail >> and they asked those people they took a a poll of whether they they thought they were treated fairly or not, right? And the question was, "How fair do you feel the legal system is?" And what was incredible was that their answers did not hinge and depend at all by how many years they got. This guy was in for life. This guy was in for 6 months, 18 months. It had nothing to do with their sentence. The entire correlation and exact connection was it was Bob Amida. It was in measure of the amount of time that their public defender spent with them during trial. if their public defenders, the more time the public defender spent with them during trial, the more fair they said the legal system is even and nothing to do with their sentence. One guy got just mindboggling. One guy is there for light, he says it's fair and the other guy's there for 6 months and says it's not fair. Just being there to hear and then he said something which this is his story, not mine about the he said he was at a a shabatone with divorced people. I think it was women in the audience and he said I asked one question and if the answer is yes I asked the question if this and this would have happened during your marriage would you still be married and he said three quarters of the hands went up three quarters of the hands went up and his question is when you went to your spouse with an issue and this is amazing had your spouse he or she emphasized validated heard you out but still didn't do what you wanted, would you still be married? Three quarters of the room raised their hands. I'm not I'm not a bucking show bias. I barely um in in you know try to be a little bit of a of of you know having experienced it is to me it was almost terrifying in that it's not about whether you give the present. It's not about whether you give the extra recess. It's not about whether a parent you agree with a parent that the rebi was right or wrong. It's just listen. It's do what I try to do to to Garfield all the time. I just >> Thank you. I thank you for it. >> But how it was it was I was stunned by by by those two stories. Absolutely blew away. In a way it's empowering because it means that you know you if you learn the skills of listening and validation you know that you can really be more successful with more difficult conversations and issues but uh it's also very very powerful. Yeah. All right let's introduce the next segment which is this unique thing. So we we discussed in advance of different manal to give different perspectives on the life of a manal sort of let our listeners hear the back what goes on in a conference when we're hanging around together late at night and what we really >> I'm sure people are waiting with baited breath just the the excitement the tingling of a manel conference what could be more exciting >> right what's it like so we got myself and rafeld and four others as you'll hear R goen from Toronto Rashes Forester from Chicago, Rabbi Yuda Brasher from Waterterberry, and Rabbi Aaron Gabia from Lakewood. And as you'll hear, we all come from very different perspectives, but certainly shared a lot of good times and good insights together. Uh we apologize if the audio is not as good as you're used to because we were sitting around in this sort of less than perfect environment, but hopefully our tech team will polish it up enough that you'll be able to hear it and enjoy it. And we hope you enjoy this very special interview recorded live Stanford, Connecticut at the Tyra Umasura Manalm Conference. So as we continue on this very special episode here live in the Manal Conference in Connecticut, we decided to do something a little different this week Garfield and as opposed to taking emails from parents, we're going to bring parents under the hood. We figured we're in a conference with over a hundred of let's bring the most allow you to introduce them and then discuss the life the day maybe or the year or the week in life of a manal. >> Yeah. Wonderful. It is very special to sit with such of manal and talk about these issues and I love to conferences. Anyone who knows me knows that. So to be here with you and to bring the whole learning curve tiur with us in the conference is awesome. Okay. So we have four very diverse from all over. Looks Rabbi Heshi Forester is the manal of Yeshiva Orbar in Chicago. Welcome. >> Good evening. Thank you so much. >> We have Rabuda Brasher the man of town of Waterbury. Welcome Rab Brer. >> Welcome. Thank you for having me. >> We have Rabbi Dove Gopen the man of the Toranto. >> Thank you for having me. >> And last but not least Aron Gabia the manal of Shagasar and the older graves. That's fifth, sixth, seventh and eighth. >> Thank you. Looking forward >> where is Shagasar? Lake >> small little. >> Yeah. >> Yes. >> Okay. Wonderful. So, Rene Shfel, how are we gonna how are we gonna break this open? >> So, I think but we're gonna have maybe the manalum say a little bit about themselves. >> Great idea. >> And then we're going to discuss we'll throw Shilas to the audience about some of the challenges that we have. This is a little it's like an off thereord, you know, conversation that maybe people could listen in on about what what we do as Malim. Some of our challenges that maybe this is not just a therapy session. This is hopefully something that people can gain from. >> All right. So, let me ask right far to tell us a little about your background just like you know how long you've been in and a little about your school. How many kids and who does it serve? >> So, we've been in the business if you can call it that for about 20 years now. Mostly in New York last 5 years in Chicago. Our school is about 380 boys now. >> That's K through eight. >> K through eight. All boys. >> Okay. Wonderful. Right. Brusher. been for 27 years. Oh wow. >> The last 25 of it has been in Waterberry, Connecticut. For a few years of Waterberry, we started with 10 >> students, five boys and five girls. So I was a rebby in West Harford, Connecticut. We have close to 800. That's from daycare through 8th grade. My job is in the boys division 250 and also the preschool. >> Oh wow. >> So 250. >> Beautiful. So you're preschool and boys. These are the separate manales for girls. And is there a rashet? Is there a dean? >> They're working on they're working on that. But I think brother Garfield, if I'm not mistaken, you're a Roshamoy. >> I am. I am. >> You happy in Houston? >> Very happy. Couldn't be happier. >> Okay. So, I guess we'll go to the next word. >> Yeah. Yeah. Maybe open rather golden. How happy are you? No. >> Been in Toronto since 2011 when they opened their first parallel class. And I bark some parallel classes straight through. >> Wow. >> Yeah. So, I've been Rebby and then Scamal. >> What grade rebby were you? >> Seventh grade. Best best year >> I taught seventh grade Russell says seventh grade and 10th grade the hardest two grades to teach >> the most. >> Yeah. Yes. >> And then >> how many kids? >> 330 kind of art. >> Beautiful. Beautiful. >> Is your goal to make it bigger or is that like full capacity? >> Make it great. >> Okay. Rabbi Gabf, tell us a little about your little Lakewood school. >> All right. So, 21 years. >> Whoa. Three years. Seventh grade. Oh nice where >> in bay ruven countets then I became the sky manal there for seven years and now I'm 11 year finishing my 11th year in yeshiva shagasar as the manal of the older grades >> and how many kids in the whole school >> 320 in the older grades 740 something >> where where does shagas land I don't know if this is a fair question to ask in gamut >> middle of the road >> middle of the road in lakewood okay >> anyone to the right is extreme and anyone to the left is modern and he that's how he involved. Yes. I think we are a road trip. Talk about a great road trip. You start out in Chicago, you go to Toronto. I don't know how you get to Houston, but then you go to Waterberry. You stop off in Manhattan for a good steak. You end up in Lakewood for a better steak. >> Yeah. >> Then you come down to Houston. We know meat. That's one thing we can do. Okay. We're okay in the meat department. >> Yeah. >> So, what we're going to try to do is ask questions and if anyone really wants to to hop in to join, you'll feel free and we'll take it from there. So, as we said, we're going to try to be a little bit of maybe vulnerable or um under the hood to try to talk about what our job is as Manalum so parents the next time they come to the Manal's office can know what to expect. What's one of the most challenging parts of your job that parents may not realize >> now? Only one person could speak at a time. >> Yes, Savia. >> Okay. I feel that the parts that parents do not realize is when a child needs special care, special attention, ags that a child, not the mainstream child that comes in, the autopilot kid, every other kid needs something special. Some of them need extra special. I don't believe that parents realize what it takes out of a manal that has hundreds of kids under his wing to try to pick out those boys and really try to give them the proper attention and the proper need and the proper care. >> How does that express itself? >> It could be a one-on-one with the learning. >> No, I mean when the parent doesn't understand that, what do they do that tells you they don't understand that? they resist your trying to help or they give you a hard time when you try to offer something like >> no no you just realize that they I don't want to say I you know no one expects a thank you but when you don't hear from them >> you realize that they don't they're just >> they don't appreciate what you're doing >> not catching on >> they're not appreciating the the the measures that you're doing to really reach their child >> the home say that no one realizes it >> right but in general >> in general you know parents pretty much say I send my kids to see all the intricacies isn't always realized Hey Forester, >> I think what Rebe was saying is true. I think that's true for any profession until you're in that profession. Until you're you're in that person's shoes, you don't know what it takes. You see a building go up, bricks go off and everything in it and the clinging and the opicity and and it's it's wonderful. It looks like it's happening by itself and people are doing and they're they're coming. They're slapping stuff and and and it's just it's happening and every day there's there's progress and it's great until you're actually in it. You don't really know what it what it takes. It looks easier from the outside. It looks like, but there's a lot happening on its own and it it really is not. >> I always wonder like what percentage of parents think they could run the school better than us. >> Well, is it is it our fault as manal? Are we not do we not share enough with parents so that they think everything is so hunky dory and so easy? Are we not open enough? >> So, I I I I think it's important to understand that there are two very different perspectives. Parents, I I really believe parents know a child better than anybody else. Parents know their child and father being your savior. There's no there's no question. Parents and specifically mothers do understand their children. However, parents don't always understand the school perspective. The school the school administration knows the school. is sometimes just looking at a class child comes home and complaining to his parents that this is happening and that's happening and that and parents based on the child's personality of of the story they form an opinion of what the class probably looks like but it could be very different from what reality is and you can't blame that they're hearing the child's perspective they're hearing the child's story they're not there always sounds worse when you're not there >> when when when you're in it you see it very differently your Russer. >> I think I can't disagree. >> That's a Ray Garfield's job. >> But it would have to touch the whole difference. >> That is so not true. >> Parents have one agenda and they should. The advocating for their children, >> right? >> The manal has many agendas which parents don't really care about some of them. The manal has to worry about the child, the rebi, the institution, the sura, the money, the English teacher, everything. and therefore has to take into account many other areas where the parents don't really care take care of my child. But in order for me to take care of my child, I have to make sure the reby's on board or the English teachers on board the administration has >> Is that explainable? Could you say that to a parent or they or >> I think that's like what for saying that they don't they have no mag what it is to be manal and I just would like to say as a manal when I call my children's schools and again now most of the years they were my school but if they go out I am so careful the way I do it and I it it's a different appreciation I can understand what you're going through. This is my perspective. This is what I see as a parent. I know what the other side is. So I'll leave it in your hands. So there's a there's I I deal with it differently, but that's because like forces you know your job. They don't know what it means to build a building. >> But it also helps when you understand their perspective. So if I understand the parent and I give them that feeling that I understand them. Now I'm I'm working with you as an individual. Now we can also see the flip side. So we had a discussion about this specific child, what he as an individual needs, what's good for him. We have an understanding. You the parents hear from us. They hear they hear the sympathy. They hear we're working with them. Once now we have a much stronger relationship. Now it's easier for parents to see. But there's also another perspective and we have to look at the whole picture. So how can we put this to all together? How can we make this work? >> All right. Genin, do you want to >> Yeah. Yeah, I just want to just the word challenging. I I I agree with what's been saying bit what's been said, but I would just say one of the parts that I I feel I wish parents would understand is the emotional toll that it takes for somebody to be a man over so many kids and you really like every decision you make is like very heavy because you know you're dealing with the nitp of the child and the nama that's with you. It's like very heavy. It's not like anything that we take lightly and I think anytime a call hasn't made like it's we're not coming in a vacuum. It you know it takes a lot out of us to to >> Right. The parents don't know how many times we don't call home. >> Right. >> Right. I have a I had a mother recently that that the kid got in trouble in school and she called me. Why didn't you call? The kid did something wrong in Shiva. And I said Mrs. So and so not every time your son gets in trouble am I going to call you. She was like she was upset at me for not calling her so she could take care of it at home. I said if I were to call you every time you some kind of trouble >> and it was a par goat is when I get cold. So but I like I don't want to do that all the time. I know what it means if I'm calling you that there's a problem. So I had to deal with that and just it's it's 247 really. It's all nicely. >> I had a great opportunity recently. I was invited to a dinner with the mayor, the mayor of Houston. Houston is the fourth largest city. Isn't that a small thing? >> Do you know what a T4 is, Rebe Garfield? >> Yes. >> What's a T4? >> It's like when you brag about something, right? and you brag about something but like you act like you're not >> jealous. >> So the person says I had a meeting with the mayor of Houston, we would categorize that as a T4. Continue. >> Thank you for pointing that out. >> So I said mayor. No. So I was thinking before like if I have an opportunity to ask him a question like what's a question I would want to ask him. So this is the question I I really want to ask this to a a a politician of a high level. When schools make a decision, like a big decision like a a teacher change or midyear or kid leaving or whatever, the big decisions, there's so much spin in the community about why and how, and it's so far from the truth usually, like for them to really understand what went into that. Let's say in the middle of the year, a general studies teacher left and a new one came. They come up with these things, the kids and the parents and everyone knows, but no one knows the truth that the teacher had a personal tragedy or whatever it is. It could be a million reasons and you can't tell. So, I was just thinking, imagine in government, right? Like, what do you think goes on in in the senator's office or in a president's office or mayor's office and like the we're all trying to figure out, we read the news, right? Oh, probably this, probably that. But the layers of complexity to any decision that they make, it's got to be as complex as my school. No. So, I always wonder like, so do politicians like all the journalists are making stuff up. Like, if they're doing that about my school, they don't know what's going on. parents. It's very hard to understand the nuances in these decisions. You know, >> if you asked him, he wouldn't tell you the truth. >> I didn't I didn't have a chance. I didn't have a chance. But there was a reporter there and after he left, I said, "Oh, I wanted to ask this question." The reporter said, "You're absolutely right. Reporters are making up stuff. You think it's true. They're making up stuff, >> right? >> Because it's very hard to know." And I think, you know, parents are very quick to make a story that sort of makes sense to them and then before you know it, they've already executed on the story and it's like, whoa, whoa, let's get the facts, you know, a little right before we get move on. The next question, I think it really depends. I have a tremendous advantage, Bar Hashem, and that is that the size of Marsha is not too small. So each class bar is full, but we're small enough that >> T4. >> Well, I'm not sure. I want to make sure and there's not other >> We should do live more often. >> Yeah, let's go. Let's go. But but we're we're small enough that this this issue is less. It's still a challenge. I think the number one challenge of every yeshiva, every m every manal is yak versus rab. The yak does something and really if it was just him, maybe I wouldn't punish him, but he did it in public and I have to make a you know an example out of him and and I and how do you balance if there was a y you would never throw out of yeshiva. You would never suspend the you would deal with him as a kid. There's Lammanish. Maybe we'll pick who who's the biggest ishave. Who who has the most kids under? We'll start with how do you balance? You have how many kids in the seventh grade in Shagasarag? >> Three times 27. >> So it's 81, right? You have 81 kids. How do you balance a kid who I don't know whatever it is? Pick your example. The y versus again as as said all the parents care about is the yak and you have to care about the raim. That is a balance that is wo. >> So Deutsch tonight by the by the answer this question and for those that stayed around later they mold over this question for about 20 minutes >> who with him >> with about 20 of us. I didn't see that >> they they ripped him apart because that was a question he said you cannot punish ever in the face of if the trial does not deserve it. >> Right? So just to clarify, what was his example? The example was can you over punch? What was his example? >> Imagine a kid being now normally if it was you would do this and that. But now that you are you would like to throw for at least two days. But if it was you would only do it you would just give. So here you are punishing him that everyone else should not learn from him. You cannot do that if he doesn't deserve it on his own. So everyone was standing right >> right I think he said it was only in best right was only in best >> so why is that made he he lowered the level of their >> so he said but he lowered it was without intent and he burst out to the rabbi you cannot punish so by the end after 20 minutes this was the v if it's something that it was with intent he's a wise guy the man will grow that's part of it you are lowering bidavka the level in the class that you can throw him out if whatever you have to do on a bigger level but if it was because he was hurt or but then Ra tonight also quote Rabon le that it's always because he's hurt that there's no such thing asbah that it's always because he's hurt there's no such thing as a wise guy >> great question it he said there's nobah other things >> always a wise guy but that was by the end depends on >> I have I have a messiah from bash my first teaching job was in Shibas valley and baron bash Bash um cartling them ali spring valley and he had and now I'm on the microphone a lot especially in camp um see there you go I said camp Rabbi Bash never said the last name of a child on the microphone in the dining room to get his attention to discipline in other words if you have a kid who's in was making noise in the dining room the kid's name is Jacob Goldstein he would go like this in the microphone yakov turn the microphone off Goldstein so sit down or whatever the idea of publicly humiliating or calling ing out a kid never on a microphone because of that idea. Just because Jakob Goldstein is in public doesn't give me a right to embarrass him in public. So I in camp I try. Believe me that I'll never ever on a microphone say a kid's full name if I want to get his attention for something negative. >> I'm in it with you. Never ever. 21 years. >> Yeah. I don't I don't remember ever doing it. >> Why you have to call him get his attention? Why are you calling his name? >> You're reminding me I was sto in 12th grade. They stole from me. >> Excuse me. >> What happened? I was sitt was stolen from me in 12th grade. I was into learning and that we had kabusa's burakas and I was learning with a very good kabusa and they said it's not working. We have to make a shar. I said what do you mean it's not working? I'm learning well with my kabusa. No the whole class is not learning well with their kuza. We have to make a shir and you have to go sit in the shir. And I've learned so since then. Thank you. And I'm those people. But I remember like as a y I was so angry at them for stealing my so that I have to sit with all these clowns in a shir. >> So what do we do then? So what do we do? >> So Rabbi go thank you just first of all innocent crows in his sacred mustism is only for based >> only. So yeah, it's Gordon Saber. That's first of all. Second of all, there's always a why. And I mean, we have this all the time where you have different families who adhere to certain rules and other ones don't. Like it comes up all the time and you judge every family different. You judge every kid different. There is a call fair is not equal. Not everybody's not equal and every kid needs something different. You've got to find out why the kid did what he did and it's not applicable to everybody else. So if he went ahead and he screened out something he should not have screened out in public, why do you do that? Do you sit him down afterwards? You say, "Why'd you do that?" Sometimes. >> So, he's never punished. >> I say you're never punished. You have to punish according to what he did and it might not apply to the cl other people might do it. It might be something different. But that's every kid's a Every kid's different. So, I had a mother call me a kid used an inappropriate word on the school van again, which is maybe the toughest place in in America in Israel is the van on the bus, right? No one has ever solved this school van. So the mother called me a week later and was upset at me for not dealing with it. And I said, "Mrs." Everyone ghost everyone's ghosting to me. I said, "Mr. Goston, I dealt with it. What do you mean I dealt with it?" I called the boy out. I called his parents. I spoke to him. He made a program. But you didn't in public tell the rest of the van that he got in trouble. So I said to her, I didn't want to embarrass him. But how is my son supposed to know that you take inappropriate language seriously? So I thought it was I'm like excuse me that was my said that my job as anal is to decide whether I didn't want to embarrass this kid in public public and she was very upset at me cuz my son now thinks that inappropriate language is fine. >> Her son thinks inappropriate language is fine. >> Hard to believe >> a boy used bad language. He came home complaining. She said I'm going to call Jeanfeld and nothing happened. Rebecca >> I wanted this the longest he kept quiet. >> There's no real good answer. We heard from the two veteran now. So therefore maybe now with other two if you read the read the question >> read the question like a landed >> how do you balance the needs it doesn't say punishments with the needs of the whole class you're talking about special needs you're talking about breaks everybody's focusing on punishment >> well the question the question was pokes with punishments even though it wasn't read that way >> but now let's go to the other >> half to be heard or any insight >> is this mother right this mother says to me how could you not announce to the class that this kid got his mother call that he called him into his office. They think inappropriate language in the van is fine. >> I really would if it was me do go into class and speak about a problem. Not say that I did say this is not. >> So you're saying I was wrong. >> I I wouldn't say the problem I bought it to me but >> I'm a something there's also four kids on the van. So I said to her I said it's 20 kids in the class. There are four kids on the van. >> So it's different. >> She wanted me to call out the whole van. >> Why come split the difference? Whatever you do with the individual on an individual basis, he gets what he needs for his for his but the fact that there was inappropriate language used on the on the van now then the next day he can get on the van for 10 seconds and was only reminder that when we we're we're on the van even though there's no adult we still have to be careful and we're getting and and our mouths are are >> you have dealt with this before in your school you have it down paths be careful how says yeah >> in other words without pointing out about the boy just a non advis exactly not I'm not saying anything >> with the most well the mother wants to get >> the mother wanted to get >> you know we she really can't always make much happy it's not okay you can't punish make somebody else happy >> all right let's move on the next question there this is related but a little different What do you do when there's a tension between what the school could offer and what a parent expects? So, I have a good standard example is is a second math class, you know, like you have a one math class in eighth grade, either it's algebra or it's not algebra. And that kid needs either algebra or not algebra. And the parent comes and says, you know, what kind of school is this? You're not offering what my child needs. Or let's say in gamarra could be the same thing where the child is either advanced or below and you can't do it. So how have you found the ability to communicate that and make that understood or how do you deal with scenarios like that >> in general you can't always address every single every single need that may be true but there's a certain reputation there's a certain feeling that we give off there's a vibe that we give off if the vibe is as much as we have rules we're okay to break rules when we need to because we look after the individual so then it's Okay, I can't always do that. We have that we have this issue very often. We have parallel classes. >> How many in a class? >> We have up to 25. So some of the grades are roughly about 20ish, some a little less, some more. But there's two classes of every grade all the way through. Now very often a parent would see sees social just as an example would see a social situation whether correct or incorrect, but they perceive it a certain way. I think be be better for my kid to be in the other class or for next year please I want my son to have that rebby that moa and that teacher can't always do that we can't operate a school or a restaurant menu where I'll have one of that twodos it just doesn't doesn't work that way but the individual doesn't always see that but if they hear the feeling that let me understand what what's behind the request let me understand what what's your thinking what what is it that you want for your Let's see if I can make that happen in some way. So now I already I have that feeling I want to work with you. I want to make it happen. I can't always get in the classing the class you want. >> I think it's so MS if the parents feel that the yeshiva is there for them in a general sense they'll be so patient. If you parent calls you my son is needs enrichment and you say Mrs. goal scene. I'm really working on it and I'm going to call him out and ask him to convey Kasha. I'm going to send him extra homework. Little tiny things. If the parent feels that you are a that that you hear them, I it goes the longest way. >> I think that you asked me attention to again listening. I think Shanti was saying to to let them hear them out. I think more than they hear them out sometimes they get caught up. And we just had this promise last week. Narn sent the parents sent a whole email. Yes. Now did nothing for this kid. This kid by the end of the year doesn't know how doesn't know any Korea. And we keep a good record and we sent a list of 20 items. First sent it to the RV which is always a good thing you attention. Sometimes the RV, we heard this tonight from the RV could be that mediator and the middleman and speak to him before and it comes to the to the meetings. And he was blown away of what we did. He says, "I'm going to speak to the parents and say you heard from the school at some Y and Zc and Barashem we got them on board." A lot of times they don't realize that too in their in their moment of upset and want and demanding they forgot that you tried nine different things. But I do think it's listening to them, caring for them, hearing them out and say, "Let's see what I could do." And make sure when you say you'll get back to them, you will get back to them. Unfortunately, people think man, don't get back to them. So I think that's also a key to whatever you say, make sure to do I can't fathom the rest of the here. You have I I'm I'm so my not Makana any of you. I haveund 200 kids in my between boys and girls pre-K through 8. Our preschool has 80 kids in it. Our boys and girls school has 120 kids in it. I feel like I have an ability to talk to parents to deal with kids. We had a school picture a few weeks ago and I looked around at the picture and I'm like two kids are absent. I'm able to do that and you're you have hundreds. How do you deal with within with parents with and this is most of client's roles like you not like me I I think where that's why I want you should come to sh but there's hundreds of kids how is it possible to give that kid what he needs in enrichment to give that kid what he needs in special ed when unless you have an incredible layered staff unless you are organized to the wazoo regen how do you do that >> so um there are a lot of things you can do to make that personal connection and >> with 350 kids. >> Yeah. So I make a point every morning is standing outside when the kids come and I greet them. >> Rabender is you're a Tom Rabender. >> They know I know when kids aren't there. I I know they're not there. I see that they're already if they're not off the bus or group of boys come off the bus. So I can I know the boys are supposed to be on the bus. They're not on the bus. And I know who's comes in the car. By now I know who's in the cars. By mid year you know who's coming in carpulls. You see them and somebody's not there. Where's your brother? What's going on? Make the point of walking through just looking for kids. They're your kids. Like you would know when your kid's not there. It doesn't make them be 700, be 300, maybe 200. They're your kids. The reason you don't know they're not there. It's because they're your kid. So of course you just I not there. Of course. >> Rab Gab, what do you say? Okay. I want to say I would send my kids to to Canada, which >> I mean it's it's it's beyond to have someone that feels like a father the way we just heard from Rabbi Gopz is incred. Okay. I I would say like everybody else that when you work hard and you try to make the feel important and you try to make exceptions for those and you try to continuously do whatever you could for those special cases yes the parents will appreciate it even if you cannot succeed you could do success is not only the full success sometimes you could get 50% there sometimes 30% there parents appreciate it as said you got to get back to them all the time and tell them what you do to try and then they're on board even if you couldn't into what they expected. >> And that's your experience? >> My experience non-stop. >> Really? Wow. >> And if you and if you don't try and you don't get back to them, it's like the worst. >> You're done cuz my son needs special and you haven't done a thing. >> All right. Now, we're going to talk directly to the parents and and ask you to answer the following question. What's a small but impactful thing that parents could do at home that could make their child's school experience better? Are you open? I would say as a parent I have this it's it's an issue I know also but making your kids breakfast >> you know my kids come to come to school what you have this morning I do with my own kid >> what do you make your kids for breakfast >> so my kid play he plays with me he's like I was like what you have for breakfast he's LIKE I LIKE I got to speak to your mother you know what kids make a send them off in in a way that they they're happy to go >> you should know that Geldworth once gave spoke in my Manhattan um professional development or bleep gelworth and he said when a kid comes into the class cranky. The first question he asks is, "Did you have breakfast?" And he has like a little cabinet of food. >> Our first grade Revy has in in the classroom. It's a >> really That's what I'm saying. >> I have snacks and breakfast. >> You find that go you find that parent that it's an issue of kids coming to school without breakfast. >> Well, >> I'm not talking about a broken home where where that's a challenge. >> Breakfast consists of orange juice or hot chocolate or or chopping milk. That's breakfast and they're just running out. But life is harried. It's even in Toronto, Canada. But life is hairy and a lot of kids got to get out in the morning. I understand where it comes from. But kids come, that's also the first question we ask. You know, it's hard to go to sleep last night and did you have breakfast this morning? If not, go get the multi beer cheerio bag from the clock. It doesn't make it that exciting, but at least they should have something in did you eat? I asked them I signed on the note ate breakfast. Did you do and eat? I asked for did you eat breakfast and then I asked did you do but um they need to come you know. >> Wow. >> Well, >> very faster. I agree breakfast is important. I don't think anybody would ever disagree with that. And and we don't we don't even >> Do you eat breakfast? I barely eat breakfast. I have a coffee and there's and that's how I know it's important. I think it's something to make breakfast. I >> They would probably >> Okay. I We don't even serve lunch and I can say kids bring bring home lunch. You can see see what they're eating for lunch. It's it's a disaster. It's really It's really not good. I I I want to suggest a whole different perspective. If parents I I think there's there's a job on us also is there's a partnership that a school and parents have where we have to respect each other and the child will end up flourishing because of that. If the child hears from the school how we're mash the parents, you know, and and I'll tell a child sometimes, you know, I just spoke to your mother that there was some behavior thing, some whatever, whatever the issue was, but before I tell you what we spoke about, do you know, you know, I realized how lucky you are. >> Your boss loves you so much. Awesome. >> She wants to she will do anything to help you. Now, here's what we're going to do. Whatever whatever the discussion was, it it raises a level of respect in in the job. If we as parents do the same thing in reverse, wow, look at this test. You know, you did so well on the test. That's great. I'm so proud of you. All that all that. That's important. Oh, see work hard. M That's great. Ha comes home before pay is unbelievable. made the arts and perhaps projects or what whatever grade it is. This is great. Your rebby, your m it's such a vendor so much work into this. This is beautiful. It doesn't take much. It goes both ways. >> Beautiful. >> You know, >> if I could just add pressure >> to Forsa that you said what small thing just to go off for saying instead of like what how was your day? In other words, well get them trained something good happened. Thanks. So yeah, what happened today yes like asking for something >> sounds like you're fishing for fishing negative and one parent recently told me he says you know what I changed my mahal instead lows and then start positive >> what does she ask tell me something good that happened at school today >> right I knew I need something positive that happened today >> we do in my family we do highs and lows >> you know highs and lows every day Friday night at the suda relax >> there's a different angle I really appreciate what you're saying I learned something here at the at But he's as well not only the parents of of really recognizing as a man we do this to our babes. Someone said this tonight going into a class and saying wow. So the rebi I went into the middle school dun was there this couple days and the rebi says well they they know it already. You don't have to give me excuses. I'm here to make them feel good and you feel good. It's okay that they're doing well. So so I think that's important that this the manal sort of spat the red be in front of the kids and they go bad and they feel good about >> agree. I don't think parents realize how impactful their attitude about school is on the children's experience in school. Like we know which parents don't respect us because we see how the kids are so flippant. You know, they're like was a certain kid in my yeshiva this year that is struggling with his rebi. And then I found out that his mother, not in a nasty way, but has been I don't want to say bad mouthing, but has been cringing right >> and ketching about the Rebi to other people. And it's like no wonder your son doesn't you know doesn't doesn't love his rebie. >> I have a I have a technique that I try to do is double down in positivity on those people on the children. So like I treat them so well. I mean we treat all the children well but it's I know that if it's coming from a family I know I have to work extra hard to to like be there to overcome the negativity that they're getting at home. >> Do you do that with the parents also? >> I try. It's harder. >> Why is it harder? you have less access to them and they're more entrenched in their it's more of like a lifestyle sometimes. >> So you just so you just avoid those. >> Yeah. No, but you try but it's harder. But the kids they're naive they you know they're not as hardened in their dislike and if you're really nice to them they respond to it. I mean everyone responds to kindness. It's not like I'm the >> Yeah. But but you know with the children you could really be genuine and and the kids appreciate it. >> If I could add >> Rabbi Gabby off please. Thomas, how number one I love that that was such a beautiful thing that you mentioned before, sir. >> I'll tell you where it came from. >> Where did it come from? >> It came from says, "I don't remember who I told you that you have an unbelievable baritone like voice that's just like, >> wow, you should start your own. You should have your own pocket." >> And if if people in the People see your beard, they would realize that this is it's not a lifestyle. >> Where did it come from, Rabbi Forester? >> Not the baritone. story of the miser it's when a child when a child misbehaves a child's disrespect for wet child answers back to his mother it's very hard for his mother to say can't talk to me like that to stand up for your own cover is very very difficult but the father can step in >> and he says oh don't talk to can't you can't talk to your mother like that >> and vice versa each one sticks up for the other It it makes a much more wholesome. >> So before they're saying is that his kids struggle with at home. So him and his wife have have they developed this technique after the boys came from >> brother Gabby I thought you wanted to add something else. >> So I wanted to say I'm thinking now that we have six I'm sitting around the table. Yeah. I never thought about speaking to parents about this. Imagine by your next parent meeting you mentioned say we're working on this networking. We we realize how important it is and we're going to put extra effort at every opportunity. We want to tell you that if you did the same, this would be such a shirt to this that your kids will become the next kid. >> But the parents have to believe you that you're actually sticking up for the parents and not saying, "Ah, don't listen to your parents. Listen." >> Well, that's what that's the first part of the drug show. We're going to put in the effort. So, you will listen to, >> right? >> I have an idea. One, we do we do campaigns and programs every time. >> Adopt a parent. Whoa. simple keep program the braas and mitzvah and all kinds of things that's keep push it's so important to to respect the honors >> my beautiful >> call your grandparents and I have a reb every Friday he has a program to call your grandparents a pirate and he has a whole it's beautiful >> really nice said yeah >> I want to add one last thing a parent could do to help I think it was mentioned very quickly >> go away to sleep on time Mhm. >> Nothing better than that. Do whatever it takes. Prizes, take them to 12. Figure it out. Have your kid go to sleep on time. 90% after breakfast would >> I had a parent today tell me that, you know why my son's in bed the last couple of weeks? Cuz he was going to bed on time today. So >> supreme Sunday mornings have dala in yeshiva. >> He go to sleep by 8:30. >> That's great. >> So we do Abdullah and he get an extra prize part of the ref >> if I'm not part of at night. Yes. We make we make Abdullah in Nhiva. >> I need you cuz my daughter I have a first grade daughter Shabas refuses to go to sleep before Abdullah. So I'm making Abdullah during Shabas if during the suda. I'm like I'm have no problem. >> That's a good breakfast right? >> Yeah that sounds a little fishy. The brain man >> I want to end off with with the following question and really this is really a group therapy session for us. So this question so if parents want they can end the podcast now and or they could just listen in. I'll share a a challenge that I have. Maybe my my board members and my parents know what I'm talking about and they should and I shouldn't say this but I'll share it anyways. >> Should I share it anyways? >> Share it anyway. >> Okay. >> We could always edit it out of the podcast if I don't like it. My father's a RV. You should have you should be gaz. My grandfather is but both our brothers are lawyers. So I don't come from a family that had felt I had to be in I chose because I felt that it was a a higher lifestyle a higher calling I I I I don't understand how person I hope no one takes this personally listening could be an accountant a lawyer a hedge fund real estate wears every day I wake up and I feel like my life has meaning and I think I it's it's a very I feel incredible to be a man and yet there are some times where you feel like you're not in clay kesh. There are some times where you're dealing with whether it's a political issue in the town or you're trying to you're meeting the the board and you're trying to figure out finances and you're just like I I should just gone into hedge funds and at least I would have made money. >> Here I am doing the same acquisition, you know, hack. I'm doing the same trying to build merging and trying to build different groups of people and as a rebby you feel it. You feel it you in you're in the classroom every day you're dealing with the and as a manal sometimes you feel it and sometimes you don't. So I'm asking for myself, this is a personal vulnerability. H what gives you in moments or in days or in weeks where you're just like at the end of the day you didn't learn that day, right? And you're busy with with with with with hiring and salaries. This is the time of the year, right? And it's like, oh my gosh, I want to fight with the fourth grade English teacher of what what what her salary like like what? That's not why I'm here. You're all laughing. You're all crying or laughing. and and but and but but I want to be I I wake up in the morning saying I chose this because I am I'm in Kesh help me out help me out Garfeld I'm gonna start with you how's that I >> I think there's no other answer than when you're able to really change the life of a child that that power >> but I'm not changing the life of a child with an English teacher about you know what her severance pays >> so in that moment you're not but when you have opportunities to throughout your day and throughout your you know time in your have where you're really making a difference to people and really building the future of Clay Israel. You got to keep that in mind. And I'm not saying it's easy. It's hard. It's hard. But like for me at least that the the that knowledge and seeing it when you're really able to make a difference or a difference to an adult too, a difference to the staff that we have Mishbaka, there's something unique that a manal could do in in your role that really could could uh help people in such a dramatic way. So for me personally that's what helps me um you know get balances the negativity and the positivity. >> Do you struggle with the negativity? >> Yeah, for me it's a little different. It's not so much the minutia of the non haliga aspects. It's when I feel that the expectation on myself to produce and to make a school great and to and to bring resources and to make it awesome and I can't get there. It's just like beyond me. And that leaves me sometimes feeling like down like I want it to be better. I want to be perfect. I want to have great >> unfair expectations. Yeah, unrealistications of myself. And so it's taken me time to work on that. You know, you always are beating yourself up. You have to be careful, >> you know, not to beat I I find myself it's easy for me to beat myself up. Why isn't it better? Why didn't I Why don't we have the curriculum clear? Why don't we have guidelines better? How did we not know that? And the reality is that, you know, you can only give a you can only give as much as you could give and you're not going to get it all. In fact, about two years into my job, I had an artist make me a piece of art that hangs in front of me because I found myself kept keep saying that to myself in the room like I can't I can't. >> It's all saying it is your name but all quit. >> So that kazal is really what keeps me grounded. But the the the the inspiration for me of being able to really make a difference and it happens here and there you can really connect and help someone is very empowering. >> I have a foster every artist was going to paint. You're going to paint the room or even not even an artwork. You're going to paint the room. There's a certain amount of scraping that you have to do before you can start painting. There has to be a primer. If there's a layer of paint from before, you can't just paint on top of it. You have to scrape it off. And so, there's always going to be this little, you know, those little bumps, those little things that we're were not so pleased about. But now, we would rather not have to do. And sometimes when when you have to quote unquote punish a child, it's not a shimari. It's not right. We have to, you know, avail and the it's it's really not pleasant, but we know that that's that's what we have to do. And sometimes, let's say, you give an example of a political thing. Yeah. It's not really why we went into this business. That's true. And I don't have to deal with the, you know, town stuff and, you know, and visiting the politics and the sh with the the school and what whatever the issues may be. I don't want to have to deal with that. But sometimes that's confident, of course. And I mean, but if we set our goal like in every business, every organization, every business has a mission or they should have a mission and you make sure that you review your mission all the time. You're constantly reviewing your mission and you keep your eye on the prize. This is what I want to get to. So good. I know that throughout the day I'm going to get pulled away that I I have that anchor that keeps pulling me back. I want to make sure I get to that. So, in an example, for me, my goal is whatever the the mission is is obvious, but I make sure I'm in a classroom often enough. I don't care what no matter what's happening. So, some days it don't matter less than others and I'll get pulled away, but I'll make sure I'm in a schedule for her in half a week or whatever it is because that's when I get mash. I got my prize again. I know. going to get it's my opportunity not only to see the nas it's my my opportunity to give I for her class more to give than than than to get again tremendous nas but that that's how I build myas that's my opportunity I'm not there in the morning like a big open is to greet the boys in the morning because I made a decision I did that for a couple of years and it's great don't give it out but I I detract with the older boys I can't do both the tarn just doesn't work so if if you can if you can wing it that that's great the tarn just doesn't work I mean the But the way the schedule is now, it doesn't work. So I can't do both. So for whatever reason, I decided this year actually I'm making a decision and I I created upstairs with the uh with the older boys. I'm not there anymore. So when am I interacting with it? So I make sure that throughout the month I there's a cycle ro so I have I have that matters. Yes, I get pulled away for for other things and it's Nakashma but I have that >> just want to add I think you said to her what keeps me inspired there's two areas one is teaching must every manal must continue to teach something >> like like on organized >> I do it I do it on Fridays teach eighth grade that's so rewarding to me and then as well going into different classes when you do things and you see the you see their smile That is valuable. That's keep me inspired as well as a rebby. Like a rebby came to me. I heard you start a program there. I want to start it here. Wow. How do you know to make me feel good? This was my you know on Friday. So I went in and start a flip program in that class. Those are things that keep me going and keep me inspired. And then you could deal with all those other things. The fourth grade math teacher salary. >> It's the I see we're all saying similar. It's the it's the substantive interactions with kids that really is why we got into this, right? and keeps us, you know, right open. How about you? >> So, I do that in the older boys, but sometimes I have to leave early because I I want to be out there. But there's so many moments during the day in my week that you really can inspiration. I walk by some classes. I'll just listen from outside. I'll just listen to the rabbi go. I'll listen to the kids learning. You can't help walk through a hallway here in learning. He's >> gin is good. Er shave museum an email address appearance to apply to your school to Canada. You already got the last slide over Canada right place the silver right wow >> we do this thing Arab shabasa and I recommend it to everybody it's it's 25 minutes all of sak we sing a couple good it's grade one through four I I can tell you whatever my week has been like it it's it's all gone by that eros you see little kids and they're screaming they're yelling they pushing on the table and now we're seeing like beh and they're really getting into it like there's somebody and then you just go vit you get invited invited to I got invited to a Talmud's the pine verse kid a kid I taught in 14 years like I'm saying the kid makes it all worth it I told the father they said I don't have any kids of my own I'd rather brand kids but this is the clothes I did feel to disable like there's so many moments you just take them in >> beautiful >> so I'm going to take a different a little different twist here I I find that the thing that gives the most Cbook and the most is watching kids change I I have five six seven, eight. So I I'm and very focused on that. There's such a big change. Sometimes you find real real healite in fifth grade. They they turn around in sixth, then they turn around sometimes in seventh. And and I watch and I say that was all worth it. >> Wow. >> And my interaction with them is I'm not I am in the classrooms a lot. Not not as much as I would like, but my interaction all the time is in the hallway. I with kids throughout. They love shoes with me after chocolate and the hallway on the way in for me. says on the way out to Schmoozer and the Handler I I feel like an uncle to them many times but I have to be >> not a Zeta >> one day and one Saturday with I'm like their uncle many many times just that interaction yes I also speak to them after with the with the older boys and I speak to them for a few minutes after after Shak is that's where I give my anything I want to give also it's great but watching kids change and grow is just that's I I feel That's really good. >> Besides, >> let's not forget every once in a while I think about the hab we're going to get. >> I get that. Yes, we could be richer. I think we're all bush be able to run hedge funds maybe. But bigger picture, you got to think about hab say you know what we're doing this for. >> Beautiful. >> But those successes are too. >> That's true. >> That's true. That's true. >> So I'll Garfield, I'll let you close. I just want to end by I hope parents and our avid listeners appreciate or or at least are inspired by the way we are inspired to listen to I don't know my manal hope they're not listening when I was a kid we're not like this and not just theos but the ava around this um table and I hope parents hear what me and you hear and that is the the care the love the mysterious nephesh but more than that it's the embracing and and we don't want to be anywhere else as much as maybe we're talented and we could do head funds and lawyers and accountants we could have been anywhere else you know I think the six of us represent the hundred of us that are at this conference that you know we we make mistakes as we're not perfect but we we are here for the for the children we're here for for Cli and really we we love it. We we we laugh tonight a lot but but I think I'm not M kind of anyone else that does anything else. Not my kind of my wealthy brothers who are lawyers. I love it. But but but and I hope parents appreciate the fact that us man make plenty of mistakes. We give our kishkas to the kids and all we want as as all the man ever said is that our our kid should be mik. >> Beautiful. Beautiful. I I couldn't have said it better. That was beautiful. Exactly very similar to what I was thinking and this idea that when we deal with a kid we always say kids are good and they want to do good and if there's not there's a reason and I think just sitting around here and listening to us we feel the same way about manalum right parents if manalum something's not working it's not because we don't are good >> that's that's exactly what I want to say I see we're good we're trying we have a lot of things going on we're trying we want to do good and if there's a problem let's talk about it let's try to figure it out give us opportunity. I think everyone here just wants the opportunity to try to work it through and be the best we can be and uh you know we have limitations both from us and from the circumstances but it's not because of a lack of desire to be there for your children and for your families. Rabbi say thank you so much. It was wonderful to spend time together and hashem we'll be able to continue to build tora and and kinder for kasra. Well that was wonderful. I'm sure you could all tell how much we enjoyed the time we spent together. I think there was a lot of laughter and a lot of shared experiences. And I know Rabbi Shford and I, we left off the conversation being Mishab these wonderful manal and I still feel that way. I still feel it was such a keshm to see that these are the people running the schools of our children. >> Yeah. And for me, if that's my walk away from this conference, besides hopefully what we gained, you know, pedagogically was that we're in pretty good hands. I know we're giving ourselves a pat on the back here, but professionally the monolim we really, and this is the we, this is the big we, not just not not me necessarily, not not you Garfield care. We're we're not we're not trying to be controlling and of course we're not perfect but the the the desire to be there for kids and to be there for parents. >> Such a sincere group. It's such a like kidish that such a group of people get together to say what could we do more for Claudius essentially. >> We're being really really mushy. I think people are going to I think people shut it off already. You could end it with the podcast. >> All right. So let me just say this before we end. >> Thank you for listening. Please feel free to send any question or comments. We love your comments to the learning curve at mishbah.com and we're looking forward to hearing from you and continuing to talk here together.