Parshas Eikev with Rabbi Dovid Hojda

Hi, good evening. Uh, so my name is David Hoya and um, so before we start, I just uh, again want to let you know that basically uh, it's best if everybody should if possible be looking on with the text. But what we're going to be doing is trying to learn together to to to learn a text. And um I just one of the things just to ask you in terms of the the the ground rules to uh simply in order to understand what we're going to be doing what we're doing is going to is going to be quite complex and in order to stand uh to follow it'll be very helpful if people could just have a continuous train of thought instead of being interrupted by questions and if there are questions and cautions to do that at the end so I would appreciate that. I think it's really best for everybody because this is a uh as I said this is a a pretty sophisticated uh topic but it's extremely it's extremely important but sophisticated and and complex. So um the in in this week's para at the at uh so for instance there's there's a there's a there's a in this week's paras it says in um in other words why is he doing right to it seems to afflict you to test you to know what is within your heart that will you go will you um keep my mitzvos or not so this will be the topics that I'd like to speak about today which is or to learn with you today is to learn the inyan of nision. Now the way we're going to do it is in a in a way that um we'll start off with the approaches that people are familiar with but the focus of this year will be with with an approach that you might not be familiar with. It's the approach of the Rambam in the Marvim which is quite different from the way it's conventionally understood but quite quite quite fascinating and quite important. So the the issue of and so the Rambam right at the beginning of oh and by the way I just tell you what I have here in my stack of sarum here just to explain. So the Martinim god of guide to the perplex god of the perplex was written in Arabic and it's had the there there were translations during the medieval times from Ibon and from Alarisi. The Ramban had the translation of Alarisi not the translation of Ibon. Imit to bone was pretty much the standard translation for whatever six 700 years until RV Kapak came along and uh published this about 50 years ago or so. Uh since then there have been a couple of other translations that have been done. Um most noteworthy is this which uh came out several years ago from Al Mishna which is which is really really wonderful. um has a lot of advantages in terms of simply making things easier to understand because it breaks it up into paragraph. It has easy explanations. It has all kinds of cross references, the type of things that a bentora would be interested in seeing if they're looking at marim. and a new English translation. There was an English translation that also came out about uh 40 40 years ago or so, 50 years ago and it was um two volume translation and uh that translation has uh to to some extent been eclipsed by a new translation which came out about two years ago by Len Goodman. I don't have the cover with me, but it's this. And this is a very very interesting translation because he wrote it in a very fluid English, a very modern fluid English. And it's uh it's it's it's quite interesting. So in any event, everything we're doing is working with a translation. So you have to be aware of that because uh translators both take license especially this translation because he wants it to be fluid and sometimes they perhaps um might not always understand the original and I'll tell you for instance as a footnote to to the extent that that's true the Ramban famously the Ramban has many has has multiple with the Rambam inim and He uses very very harsh language against the Ramba and the Ritva. Excuse me, could you stop talking please? Thank you. Um and the and the Ritzvah wrote a safer called safer as Karon which is a defense of the Rambam against the attacks of the Ramban. And one of the defenses and there one of this is just worthy of knowing. So two of the defenses that the that the Ritfi uses, one of them is is that the Ramban did not study had never studied philosophy and because of that perhaps he might have misunderstood some things in the things he attributes to the might be based on his misunderstanding. So that's one thing the RitA says very interestingly and Ritah says about himself but he said but me personally he he starts off and he says that um you know it sometimes is that a person that someone can be very very very small and almost insignificant and that somebody else who's an absolute giant in comparison to them and that other person completely dwarfs them. So he said that that's the relationship between myself and the Ramban. He says, but he says sometimes that small person, there's one thing that that small person studied and spent time with that the big person never did. So he said that's also me. He said so I studied philosophy. The Ramban never studied philosophy. So I just would point out that there are certain things that I think he perhaps mis that he misunderstood. Another reason why the Ramban might have misunderstood certain things in the mar and aside according to the Ritva, aside from not having studied philosophy is that the Ritvah is that the Ramban was using the Alaharzi translating the Alahharisi translation which is a defective translation. So the Ramban was already depending on a translation which was itself quite problematic. So with that with that small introduction I just I'll we'll read one sentence from the beginning of theim here inalid and then I want to tell you go back and just to to discuss what the raan what the traditional conventional understanding is of nision in order to appreciate where the ramban where the ramban is going to differ. So if you look at the the very first sentence his Rambam says so the matter of is something which is quite difficult and it's among the greatest difficulties that there is in the Torah Torah mentions it in six places as I'll explain to you in this par. So first of all the in the entirety of the is about tackling very very difficult issues and with this one the Rambam tells you this is one of the most difficult things of all. So one of the things I'd like to try to understand is why it's so difficult at least for the Rambam why the Rambam considered it so difficult because most of us don't consider it difficult at all. Before I came here, I was discussing it with one of my grandchildren who learned it in last year in ninth grade and it was posit. What's the question? So, let's first take a look at the uh the approaches that we're most familiar with. So, um the the Ramban speaks about it twice. Once the Ramban speaks about it twice once in um by the Aadisak and and here as well and by the man I'm sorry and also by the man. So let me just first read just quickly just give a quick background. So there's a Gummoros and Dad um that if you see a person where you come upon him, he should search his ways. If he searched and didn't find, he should say it's because of Torah. And if he and if he said okay it's due to Torah but similarly but he couldn't find in himself that he really does have that uh lack of Torah that it shouldn't be a sin with him because he's doing fine. So then it's known that these are these are afflictions of love says causes him to suffer in this world without any sin that precipitated it in order to magnify his reward. in the next world. So he's going to have greater reward in the next world. That's what Rashi says in in Braos, right? So Rash says there such a thing as and the reason why will do this would be in order that a person will have greater reward. That's what Rashi says. Um so there's a famous Ramban here um Ramban says in Berius Abraham. So the Ramban is saying according to me. So it's always interesting when the Ramban starts off and says because then he's saying something which is not necessarily going to be based on but something that he believes from his knowledge of since the um that the deeds of a man a person has absolute free choice. If he wants he'll do it. He has people have freedom to choose and to act as they want to. So it's called from the aspect of the one who is being tested. Uh where is it? I mean I know it by heart where I'm saying where it is. uh um so to take it from the potential to the actual. So the first thing the Ramban says is that the test when it says that the keshbar tests someone as we have in parv and we have in five other places I think in the Torah it's in order not so that the keshbaru would learn something that he didn't know before but rather so that the object of the test it's for the it's for the sake of the one who's being tested. but not for the one who's testing. So in other words, we normally associate a test is we you take a class, the teacher gives a test to the entire class and the reason why the teacher gives the test is they need to know which students have uh mastered the material and which students haven't mastered the material, right? And then once the teacher is able to look at the results of the test, he'll have a better idea who in the class knows what. But the Ramban says, "No, when it comes to the tests of the Torah, that is not the case. It's it's because it's it's the one who's being tested, not so before I continue, does anybody have an idea why the Ramban says this as absolute as absolutely why why that's absolute. It's not possible that it could be, excuse me, >> knows everything." >> Because Hashem knows everything, right? And Hashem knows everything. were to say it a little bit differently that Hashem is perfect and it would diminish from his perfection. Okay, so that that's a little bit of a better way of saying it. And so he says go so from the potential to the actual. Does anybody know what that means? We say it all the time. My my granddaughter knew it also. But what does it mean exactly? >> It's it's what's here in front of you versus what you could be at. >> Good. So I'll give you an example. So let's say I'm the type of person I'm a very righteous person and if I would see if it was a very rainy day and there was an old lady struggling with shopping carts and was trying to get across the street and struggling. I'm the type of person who would help her. That's the type of person I am. I have those midos I'm that type of person. I would help her. So I have a certain scar according to Ramban for being that type of a person, a person with wonderful meidos. But that's not like the scar I would have if I actually saw an old lady and it was a rainy day and I took her across the street. I picked up her bags and took her across the street. So the scar of taking this old lady across the street is more than the scar that I would have from just being the type of person who would do such a thing were he given the opportunity. So so that's what it means I think in the Ramban. So the person is then presented with an opportunity to actively do what their midos internally or the type of person are. >> No, no, not to prove anything. It's to give him more reward. In other words, I get I get a certain amount of reward for being a certain type of people with a person with good thoughts. I have good thoughts. I'm always thinking I'm the type of person who just is would just love to be able to help other people, right? >> But when I actually help somebody, I have even more scar. >> Okay. So, I have a certain amount of scar for having this good character, but I have even more scar for actually taking the old lady across the street. That's the Ramban's perspective. >> Having that character, >> excuse me. >> You get scarred for having that character. Well, it gets scarred not only for having the character but having done this deed, right? In other words, that's elo. That's that's when when when the Ramban I believe that's what the Ramban means when he says from the potential to the actual. So potentially if there were an old lady, I'm the type of person who would cross her. But now I'm presented with an old lady and I actually do cross her and the Kuresh Baraku was uh presented me with that old lady so that I would because he wanted to give me more reward because he loves me. Okay, that's the rampant. Good. So um and then the Ramban continues that from aim that the that the that the Kuresh will test because when he knows that the Sadic will do his own in other words he's only going to do it for he's not going to do this for someone who he doesn't feel is going to actually do it. Okay. And he wants to to whatever give him more uh and he will not do this with the who will not listen. Right? He'll do it for won't do it for the course. The difficulty with the Ramban, I think it seems to me one difficulty with the Ramban would be is that he's only dealing with the two poles. He doesn't tell you about the middle. He tells you he'll he'll do it for the but he won't do it for the what about what about the people in the middle? doesn't doesn't tell you. So then the Ramban says all the of the Torah are for the benefit of the one who is being tested. Okay, great. That's Ramban. So one more thing I'll tell you now in background before we start with theim the previous chapters to this this is chapter 24 324 there are three uh sections of and this we're going to be reading and the uh the the three chapters or so before this the chapter before this discuss actually not whatever but they're discussing this whatever they're Um some of the chapters before discussing Eio um but the chapter before is basically one of the things it's discussing is the idea of how one looks at suffering. What is the what is the approach towards suffering right and it's relevant to so the Ramban says the Rambam says so one of the approaches is of the mktal muktaleim right which was was a group of Islamic philosophers so he said so what they say is that god test god gives people suffering and tests in order to grant them reward. Sounds like the Ramban, right? Sounds like Rashi. Sounds like the Gmorra. But the Rambam attributes it to the Muktaleim. The Rambam then says, but this is not correct. This is not a correct touch of the Rambam says. Okay. So that's the background. So now we're going to look at what the Rambam says here in where he explicitly deals with it because what is it? What is in if the Rambam has already rejected the very idea that the Rambam that the Ramban says, right? The Ramban had wasn't alive yet. But um but the Ramban seems to be saying something very close to what the Rambam rejects as being completely wrong and associates with Muktaleim with these uh Islamic philosophers. Okay. So let's read let's start reading and um and I'll also tell you that the translation English translation that's here I think the the English translation that you have there is um from Freedellander which was done around 1902 or something like that and um yeah Michael Freedellander and he translated it from the uh he translated from the Arabic and um he makes a lot of mistakes But uh it's what you'll find if you go on the internet because it's available for free. So when you look at anything which has a side by side or translation, it's going to be using the freedom translation because it's in the public domain. So um I'll try to do my own translation here. So just don't catch me on anything. I'll do the best I can. Um so he says is very very difficult. It's one of the greatest difficulties in the Torah and the Torah mentions it in six places as I'll explain to you in this chapter before the so he says something which is popular amongst uh amongst the masses of people regarding is that Hashem brings a person affliction without him having sinned beforehand in order to magnify his reward. Sounds very much like Rashi. Sounds very much like Ramban. Sounds like the inos right. So he says, so the Rambam, the Rambam says this, this um rule, this foundation is not mentioned in the Torah. This is never openly mentioned anywhere. In other words, that this is the reason. It never says that. In other words, it does say in several places it discusses, but it never says that this is the reason. So the Rambam first of all right off the bat is rejecting this good and there and there's not you don't find in the Torah things which means the the the um common sense understanding may v or the the plain sense meaning So he says he says he doesn't see such a thing in the words of the Torah. In other words, it requires too much interpolation which is basically what he's saying probably about the Gumar and Brahos that he's saying they're putting things into which is simply which is simply not there. It's there's too much interpretation and the Rambam is insisting that he feels it's uncalled for. It's not in the words. This thing that everybody thinks is simply not in the words. And that's not the only way to read it. and I'm going to uh explain what that means and that's going to be in I think paragraph 8 that you have there. So, so the first thing the Rambam explains is why he thinks that this is impossible. This is phil this is philos this is philosophically impossible for the Rambam that the would bring suffering to somebody without them having sinned because it says he's he's he's a he's a god he's a trustworthy god and he has no crookedness. He has no crookedness. and and it's not all who hold from this popular notion that there's no um death without sin and there is no and there's no suffering without abone zooi hada so he wants to say the rambom wants to say that the gammorrah in chabas This is really the mainstream approach. I think you know without looking at the carefully I would say he would say the word not the word he says. So this is the opinion. So anybody who's religious >> this is this is the >> he says this is the well it's a translation from the Arabic um this is any any religious personality who has some sense of wisdom who knows how to think this is the correct thing for them to believe. Okay. So, he's firing some pretty strong shots here across the bow, right? So, he's saying that this is this is the intelligent way. This he says anyone who's religious and intelligent, this is the only approach that that someone could possibly take. That's what he says. He says that and it won't attribute to Hashem crookedness. God forbid. And we hear whatever something happened to some person and something happened to him and uh and to not think that it's something that happened but then in other words that it was just God was acting in an unrighteous in other words the Rambam considers this acting in an unrighteous way right an exaggerated uh to act in a way that's completely that wasn't precipitated by by sin and it's completely uh out of out of proportion to what the person might have done it >> right. So in other words, the the Rambam is saying is that it's telling you something incorrect about Hashem. To believe what the hamon believes is is causing you to believe something. And and I'll get back, by the way, I'll just reiterate what I said before. The reason why the Rambam says this is because not for the reason that God knows everything. It's for the reason I explained before because God is perfect. And so since he's perfect, this would be an example of lacking perfection. That's for the Rambam. Okay. but rather it's in order to make known to know let's say to known but you'll see it's really going to mean to make known the the mida of the person who's tested of his amuna meaning his shall oto um of that person or the nation right the nation in the case of the man and the person in the case of let's Oh mid or the mida the degree to which he listens the degree to which he listens and this is the greatest difficulty and he says and he says especially when it comes to the akada so now he's going to explain the akada and he's going to give this really really I think a really really interesting. So you should pay attention. It's a really really interesting understanding of the shalom, right? Because if you say and I would translate what came before because we'll see these bands. It's in order to make known the faith of the people who are being tested whether it's a group of people in umah or whether it's an individual. It's to make known. In other words, it's not for the person being tested, but rather you'll see he's going to say it's the sake for publicizing, for teaching, for public teaching. Essentially putting on the stage the one who's being tested and using that as a way of teaching a correct theological lesson to the whole world. So in other words, has nothing to do with the one being tested. You'll see. We'll see in a second. So he says, but in the case of Abraham, but in the case only Hashem knew about it, right? This happened in private, right? The the was in private elim. Now I know. Oh, just a second. You're right. Now I know that you are and that you didn't hold back your only son for me tests you to know if you love Hashem that's in um and in paras also our para uh which is at the end of last week's para right now I'm going to resolve for you all these difficulties he So it's in order that people will know what is correct for them to do. Right? Oh, or what's correct for them to believe. So the Rambam now says very very important things. So now he says what is it all the in the Torah what are they for? One of two reasons. either that a per that the entire that the that some broad number of people whether it's we'll see in a second should know what they're supposed to do or to know what they're supposed to believe. But that's the reason that the intent is not for the thing itself. that people will see it and that they will follow in its ways. In other words, we'll see. So, he's going to say that what is the it's in order for us to learn what you'll see. He's going to explain really a couple of things. He's going to say I'm just telling in advance so so easier to follow. He's going to say several things. He said, first of all, it's to show you what a ma, someone who has bet and who has faith, what he would be willing to do for Hashem to sacrifice his own child. And in Oheave, he's going to make another point. I I I'll just tell you again in advance so you'll see it inside. It'll it'll it's easier if you just know a little bit beforehand. So in other words, the first point is so that we should know what a man of faith does. So it's for us had nothing to do with a it's not to give a morsar. All this is is something that was created by the kuresh in order to publicize something. So we should learn something which is true for our benefit. He also says it also teaches you the truth of prophecy. How does it teach you the truth of prophecy? Because as much of a maamin as Arainu was, if he had any doubt that this was in fact a communication from Hashem and if he had any doubt that he unders that he might have misunderstood the communication, he never would have done it. So the fact that a Ravenu did it proves to you not only that Hashem communicates effectively with human beings in a way that they can understand but also how certain the Nvi is that he is understanding it correctly. So that's a tremendously important principle for the Rambam. The reason why that's a tremendously important principle for the Rambam is because the entire Torah is based on this. The entire Torah is based on a man coming down from a mountain and making a claim that he had a communication with Hashem and this is what Hashem wants. So if you don't So this requires a tremendous leap on our behalf. We have to believe number one that there's such a thing as a god speaking to a human being. We have to believe number two that that god speaks to the human being in a way that the human being can understand. No, I'm talking about Mosherenu. >> Yeah, but we were there. We heard him speak to us, too. >> We only heard we only heard NAS we only heard at best at we only heard it depends according to the Rambam all they heard was a noise they didn't hear any words they didn't the words had to the word the noise they heard had to be interpreted by Moshe but at best even according to the other opinion not like the Rambam we heard the the first two the first two mitzvah >> okay but that's more than >> well that's not the entire Torah what do you mean we have to have the that's that's that's twoim in the Torah there a lot more so so who's so fine so how Why did I have to I'm explaining to you what the Rambam would say. I'm just >> on this thing. The next plus it's further down in the it says himself got a reward. >> We We'll see. He's going to explain it. We'll see. We >> We'll see. So, I'm just explaining what thear is. I'm not saying I'm not I'm not denying it. I'm just explaining what for according to the Rambam what it what he's saying right now in the bookim we're just trying to follow his argument what it is that the the Rambam is saying now I'll tell you another thing we'll see that the Rambam is going to say he doesn't say this explicitly but I'm saying it another point that the Rambam makes is that the oh he says it somewhat explicitly but just to explain it a little bit he says without reinu is a special so anyway so the whole Torah depends on this. I'm just explaining in background. That's why that's why Nva this whole safer practically is about nvoir. This is one of the you know most of is about right. It's a very very important principle and so the person has to has to believe it has to has has to accept it. >> Hence the name. >> Yeahim really means perplexed. >> Okay. So the right but in any event um so the Rambam says another thing he says that after Hashem told Abrau to to She's his only son who he'd been waiting for so long he then gives him three days. >> Why? >> He wants to really think about it. >> Yes. Excellent. Because what he wants is because what should we learn? We shouldn't think that when Arau did this, he did it impulsively. He did it because he was just so excited and he did it impulsively and afterwards that maybe there was some sort of buyer's remorse. What was I thinking? So what he did was it shows you he thought about it for 3 days. So when he actually came and was ready to she his son it was coming purely from Seikko not from emotions >> and his heart was in it too >> his heart was in it but the point is it's because he understood this was Abrau who also had you know came to Hashem through his own philosophizing according to the Rambam right just pondering p you know he hadn't he didn't receive the Torah just by simply pondering the heavens and figuring ing things out. So he was the great philosopher. So the great philosopher Arau the persona of the great philosopher Arainu did this after philosophizing not as a spontaneous emotional impulsive act. Okay. So now we'll look at the words. So that's basically I'm just laying out for you what he's about to say. Okay. Um does anybody have any questions in what they're not not cautious on the Rambam but just in terms of what I've explained so far before we go further. >> Um yeah one thing that was bothering me. >> Yeah. So does the Rambam and the Raman not believe that tikun can happen to a person not because of something they did but very possibly because of the of the aspect of Gilgal of now you need to fix up for something that you did in past life where your nama was over something and now you need you have the ability in a in another life came down and now you're here to fix that. Hashem shows you the same difficulty in a different aspect to see if you can master it and do what's right. >> So, so it's a good question. So, I can answer you. Let's just talk about now. We'll put the Rambon to the side and we'll discuss the Rambam. So, I can tell you that the Rambam would absolutely reject such a notion of Gilgal. He would consider it something which is almost a form of foolishness or maybe idolatry which is what Rabbi Sajigon says in eminote vote. So he's coming from the same Islamic rationalist philosophical school as the Rambam. The Rambam is more leaning towards Aristotle. But in any event, the same rationalist Islamic rationalist school and the Sajolan says explicitly that this is absolute nonsense. And I think he says anybody who believes such a thing is a fool. >> So that means that so according to that notion that means that every time in the hospital a baby is born, it's a new shama. Yes, it would seem that way. According to according to the according to the to the Rambam according to the I'm sorry, >> right? I'm just dealing with the Rambam. >> So, we're just dealing right now with the Rambam. So, you asked. So, they'll just deal with the Rambam. So I'm just telling you that the Rambam I don't remember if the Rambam specifically speaks of Belgull but I I'm sure he would hold like Rajigon and that that it's complete uh stupidity and foolishness and maybe in the realm of idolatry to believe such things >> correct that's correct but that would cut that would the Rambam Yes the Rambam the Rambam would we could do another sure about this some other time but the but the uh but you're correct The Rambam completely negates the entire Makava of the Rambam. All of his works um significantly negate uh the many of the things which uh people would say in the name of Kabala. And that's really one of the uh differences really between the Ramban and the Rambam. That's really probably the most fundamental difference between the Ramban and the Rambam. If you want, I'll tell you quickly. um the most fun >> the Ram says no the Raman says yes >> I I'll I'll I'll tell you a little side so you'll understand it so the the really what it comes down to is it I can I can crystallize it by talking about tameitos so the Rambam has a whole half of this gimmlos And the Rambam wrote a safer mitzvos where he gives Tom a mitzvah also. And please go somewhere else to to learn. So the the Rambam says, so here's the idea here's the idea. The mitzvah that we have, who are they for? Are they or both. So according to the Rambam, all mitzvos are for one purpose and one purpose only. Well, they're for the benefit of mankind in this world. mankind that is living in this world. In other words, it's so that either there should be a better society or that a person would have correct thoughts meaning to know what the things that you he should believe in and also to know the things he should not believe in to not believe in foolish things and to have the right character and that's it. All mitzvot fall into those categories. There's nothing according to the Ramba, there's nothing that we do through our mitzvah or through the Torah or anything that has any effect whatsoever on nature, any effect on the world, any effect on the shamay, and any effect on Hashem. Zero. Everything in the Torah, every mitzvah is only for the sake of the for the essentially for the brain of the person who's doing it, for what it does to their brain, to us to their character, how it helps society, and that's it. Nothing else. And the Rambam would consider that if you were to think that that it has an effect on the outside world somehow or the Shamayam or or Hashem, let alone the spheros, etc., The Rambam would consider that in the realm of idolatry. The Ramban represents the perspective that we're more familiar with in, you know, 21st century Orthodox Judaism, which is that it's both. It's it's for the sake of human beings to imperfect us, but it's also for the sake of Hashem. Hashem has a need for us to do mitzvah according to the Ramban. And we see this in several places. I'll just tell you one example. Um the Ramban famously says that um I'll tell you the one which is less famous. The famous thing is the between the Rambam and the Ramban about Corbanos because it says and so the Ramban attacks the Rambam there. But I'll tell you a place where he doesn't attack the Ramban. >> Tyrus. >> I'm sorry. >> Yeah, I'll tell you where he doesn't attack the Ramban. But it shows you very interestingly the Ramban's uh understanding. So it's a people who learn Ramban know that the that the Ramban has a following the that the mitzvos init are for practice and that the of mitzvos it's the mitzvos is and outside of it's for practice. So >> right. So why does the Ramban say that? Why would he think that by put on in mansium same as putting on your shell? So the Rambon would certainly say that it's the same thing if it's only affect how it affects my brain affects my brain the same way in either place. But the Ramban would say no part of the reason that there's a mitzv is because the effect it has on the and the presence of the is the certain aspects of the are only in Israel. So if you're doing the mitzvah and you're not doing it in the presence of the shina for lack of a better term then you're not doing the mitzvah in the complete way. >> Where did the Raman live where lived in Spain and at the end of his life he went there to Israel. >> So then he when he wore what he think was happening >> that's an interesting question. the children. >> It's an interesting question. But if you look at his if you look at if you look at Ramban's if you look at his drasha the Russash Shana the Ramban after he got to Israel he gave a drussa called the drasha the rashana and you look there and there he says very explicitly that until he got to Israel he he he repeats this idea. So I didn't want to discuss the ramban but I was asked the question I just want to explain to you by way of background to know where the rambom is coming. So, so the Rambam and the Ramban are coming from vastly different places and generally the type of things that we attribute as posit or Judaism in the 21st century in my are things that the Rambam would have great difficulty with. So let's just continue. >> She says that she like saying that she created only the mitzvah and everything to perfect mankind. Why create the world? Just for mankind no other purpose. >> So the Rambam doesn't say he created the world for mankind >> only the Rambam doesn't see mankind as being unique. He created every every living thing was created has equal has equal rights in the world about the notion that Hashem created the world so that we can be which means to recognize who Hashem is by many other different ways but seeing the world and knowing there's only one God. So, so another you know if we want perhaps we can do this another time sure this is you know very very interesting topic in the Rambam and it's very complex but just suffice to say that the that the Rambam would say that it's it's an opportunity for us to reach perfection but it's not that Hashem is lacking anything because again for for the Rambam to say that God is affected which would mean God is going to change which means that he's not perfect and for and for the Rambam God can't have any imperfection So therefore, he can't change and he doesn't need anyone to perfect him. He's already perfect because something that needs to be perfected is not perfect, right? A perfect circle is a perfect circle. If it has the slightest little imperfection, it's not a circle anymore. It's not a perfect circle anymore. So Hashem is like a perfect circle. >> What? >> Okay, fine. We can debate. I'm just I >> Mullik doesn't. >> Okay, fine. Okay. Okay. So we we again we could do we can do another shear another time. We can discuss this, but I'm just explaining to you that it would seem that according to the Ramban, according to the Ramban, that there are certain things that Hashem needs from us to help perfect certain aspects of whatever you want to call it. Okay? All right. All right. So, let's get back to this. So but again but from what I told you now again it's telling you again to to to explain by the way the primacy that the Rambam puts on correct thoughts right that correct having correct thoughts so that's why the nisayon if it's going to teach us correct theological truths that's the most galdic thing that there is um I'm sorry I guess it's getting very late but I I can stop whenever you want >> no one said stop >> okay fine So, >> anyone wants to leave, they can leave. >> Okay, fine. So, which one were we up to? Um, we were up to number four. We read four. Um, >> I think I should have put another model. You're right. >> Okay. So, um, >> so fine. So, look at number five. It's not so Hashem would know, right? He already knows. And again, the idea of Hashem already knowing is not because, you know, God controls the world. God knows everything the way we say today, but rather because he's perfect. He's not lacking anything. I am Hashem to know to make known that I am Hashem who is what it means and the Rambam says that's correct it's an order that theote will know. So now it's in order not just that the Jews will know but that the nations will know >> that the nations will that the nations will know and that's going to be the explanation by the way of why the Torah tells the story of the B is in the wilderness and the man right if it wasn't for them who is it for so it's for the wider world it's so the wider world will know this the wider world will see an example of kal Israel of what a people of faith will do correct right so this is now going to even to it's going now a lesson for the nations for the nations of the world >> so to say that the so it's kind of like created the world so that the other nations not us the other nations by seeing us they'll know >> right because underlying That is another thing I don't want to put in too many uh I don't want to lay too many landmines here or say um have to understand another thing about the Rambam for the Rambam for for any of any any any who's in Makubal anybody who follows Kabala any of these things the difference between a Jew and a non-Jew is is night and day right it's a like even the the the theam sofur even famously said that they can't even trust medical experiments that were done on non-Jews, you don't know that whether that they're going to work on Jews because they're just it's just a different Bria, right? So it it would it's possible that the Rambam holds that there's no essential difference between a Jew and a non-Jew. The only difference between a Jew and a non-Jew would be that a Jew has potential because Hashem gave the Jews the Torah. He a Jew has the potential to become the greatest human being possible, which is what Mosher Rabbena was, the greatest human being possible. Not the greatest Jew possible, the greatest human being possible. So we have an advantage because we have the Torah instead of simply having to figure it out. Aristotle had to figure it out. Right? So Aristotle had a big disadvantage. He didn't have the Torah. He just had to figure it out. But the Rambam tremendously admires Aristotle for this that wow that's pretty amazing how what he was able the truths he was able to figure out without the Torah. What he was able to figure out that's pretty amazing. But in any event, so the advantage of a Jew over a non-Jew is not so much an inherent difference. It's possible according to the Rambam, it's not so much an inherent difference, but rather it's the difference in potential because we have the Torah. >> So that says a lot about Abramov. He came from a house of idols, right? >> And look what he became. >> That's right. >> That's right. That's right. >> How does that feel? Well, the question is whether the nishama again according to the Rambam whether the nishama whatever that means whether it's different because the Rambam it's it's complicated really has to do with the it has to do with the intellect so in terms of the intellect that that it's potentially the same but the question is what do you do with it do you waste your time what what do you spend your time thinking about what do you spend your time doing so develop if you cultivate your intellect you have the opportunity to become really Great and to become and if you don't cultivate your intellect you don't >> there's numerous perspectives throughout speaking about the different things when children talks about is totally separate from them talks about >> right >> and there's a concept of gay and if you don't do the g perfect you're not a Jew even if you do all and you do everything the terror says you're not a Jew >> right >> so >> that's right so that so so it's I'm saying it's a great difficulty and it's something in other words as many of the things the Rambom doesn't spell out, but it seems that there are certain things that he says which would seem to clue into it. I didn't say this was definitively how the Rambom holds, but it's possible that this how the Rambom holds, you know, and your your questions are good questions and you would have to see how the Rambom deals with it. But anyway, what we're doing now is something different. We're we're just um looking here. So again, so um so I don't know if I should. So >> okay, I mean I guess you know we should we really need to stop. >> Okay, fine. So um I I guess I could just I mean I told you outside I'll tell you one more thing outside just my own observation. Okay, I gave you a summary but I want to tell you something that I think is very important which I didn't notice that is nor is commonly pointed out. So I'd like to point it out. Um when the Rambam is speaking about Nisson here when he's speaking about it and you even see where the Ramban speaks about what does the Ramban said he says no Torah all the Torah what's the significance of that the significance is especially according so first of all according to according to Raman these are the only people he would test or this level of sadikim or of sadikim or whatever. Let's just I I I don't want to go into that. I don't want to go into Raman. But according to the Rambam, if you say the entire idea is to teach the broader world lesson. So that only works for things that are going to be recorded in the Torah. Right? In other words, the Rambam is not talking about the type of things that we commonly refer to as the Nissan. Oh, I had a nision. This happened and that happened. The koshu gave me a tremendous nission. The Rambam is not talking about this at all because that doesn't fit in because his whole idea that he's saying what is a right because again because he's saying what is a nission? He's talking about the nision all the in the Torah are in order to publicize certain truths of how to >> other people. about specifically what's in the >> correct and the way it's being publicized is through the Torah, right? It's being publicized through the Torah. That's the only thing the Rambam is talking about. >> He's not saying about the you and me and him. >> He's not discuss I think he's not discussing it. I don't think that the what the Rambam is saying here is necessarily relevant to the type of things that we we throw this word around all the time. This is an issue. You get stronger, right? that gives you he doesn't he says you have a good we have a good morra that says that that that you know that that that the that the person who makes jugs doesn't only bangs on the jug you know to the extent that he thinks that the jug can withstand the blow because he doesn't want to crack it and the same day with the keshbaku that's the way he acts with witham he he doesn't he doesn't give us things you know he doesn't give you a test that we can't overcome like everybody likes to say right so the ram is not discussing ing this here. He's only discussing the nionos in the Torah, the places in the Torah where it says uses those words. And that's why the Rambam is also referring to the of the and he's saying in the of the we don't see this idea of mahaba. And he says don't see such a thing. And he says because it's a violation of justice. And since it's a violation of justice, that would be an imperfection in Hashem. And Hashem is perfect. And part of his perfection is his justice. So I just want to leave with that just for something to think about in terms of the uh limited applicability of what we just learned, although there's fantastic applicability in terms of learning how to understand the Torah. >> Thank you very much. Thank you for bearing with me. I know this was very difficult. Talk about leading everybody on a cliff paper, right? >> How does the Rambam go with the Gumar? >> He doesn't have to because the Rambam could say it's not. It's a ded. >> Yeah, there are lots of gar there are gummoras all over the place that the Rambam ignores and takes positions against and he he would say he'll either say it's he'll say it's a dio. There a lot of things that are in the garra that the Rambam doesn't deal with at all. Why did the why did the why did the the vulner supposedly attack the Rambam? It says the philosophia because the philosophia because of what? Well, because you know the Rambam anywhere in Shas anywhere in Kazal anytime it's mentioned let's say that there that there was a mazik right the Rambam either doesn't bring it at all and if it's a sometimes doesn't bring the at all even if it's a he doesn't bring it at all and if he brings the he'll give a different reason so even though you look in it's full of stories about mazikim and beliefs in evil spirits flying all over the place. The Rambam didn't believe in it. >> Shan didn't believe in any of this. Didn't believe in it. So, so the fact that it says it in the gar, so we'll say it's a what did he say here? We see an example right here. He says right he says here that he doesn't mention the gummoros. He simply says he quotes instead quotes the goran shabas and says that's that's the normative opin that's the it doesn't mention >> the shabas >> the gmoran shabas only talks about the >> so so he only brings that he says so that that that's that's the mainstream opinion so he doesn't explicitly say he doesn't explicitly say what it says in braos is not the mainstream opinion but implicitly he's saying that he quotes he says that anybody who believes otherwise and not only that he says that that's what an intelligent person would think >> okay that much I could tell you you need at least one maybe two more sh the source material that you wrote requires >> yeah requires more time >> well the ram himself says it's one of the most difficult things so thank you for being with me I know it's a a difficult format and it's late and you know I'm doing the talking so it's easier for me to stay awake >> so thank you very much It's good.