Rabbi Binyamin Yuhanan - Planning a Kosher Wedding or Party When Family Disagrees

[Music] okay so the question we have today is how do you plan a wedding or another party in a kosher way if your family disagrees so fortunately the question of kashrut in food is less of an issue nowadays because we have plenty of kosher restaurants and caterers wedding halls and even people that are not observant often do culture food parties because most majority of places are and plus they want to accommodate the guests that are observant so they will have kosher party in terms of food however there are other issues that that can make the party not kosher and the biggest of them is the the non kosher music and non kosher dancing which means non kosher music is any music where the singers are women and non kosher dancing is any dancing where men and women dance together even if they don't dance with each other but they dance without a mic it'sa where the where men can observe women if men can see women dancing then the women are not supposed to dance and men are not supposed to watch them and of course men cannot dance together with women not only they cannot touch each other but certainly all the more so they cannot dance together so what do you do if you are organizing such a party or you're invited to such a party if you invited to such a party it's less of a problem for you you can always either excused yourself from going at all or you can go just to say Mazel Tov or to stay until dancing begins so if it's wedding and you really have to go you can go just for the Hopa if it's a kind of I'll get there so if you can avoid going to such a wedding altogether it's better if it's a distant relative or a friend and you know that it's not separate wedding then it's better not to because by going you're showing support to that idea to what they're doing and even if you're leaving later not everybody will recognize that you left they will think yes we saw religious people at such a wedding must be it's ok and then later they will say we also want to do such a wedding because all the religious people come anyway so even going to a to a Hopa or even a reception if you can avoid you should avoid however if it's a close family friend that's gonna get upset and it will spoil the relationship then you can go for the beginning either the reception or and the Hopa however preferable you shouldn't stay for the meal if you decide to stay for a meal you should only stay until dancing begins and afterwards either leave completely or in the worst case just step out it's better to leave completely because if you just step out and then you come back in people again don't don't realize that you just stepped out they think that you stayed inside the whole time maybe you even danced and even if they see you not dancing but just sitting that becomes the norm and they say fine we're gonna make such a wedding and there are all our religious cousins and friends are gonna come and they're just gonna sit no they're not gonna dance so it becomes permissible to do it and that itself is a problem too to show bad example and number two is as I said in the beginning men are not supposed to watch women dancing and so even if they are not dancing with them that's cause to watch it and not only you're not supposed to participate and give a bad example that yes I am for it and therefore I'm in a room but but more than that you yourself not supposed to be observing it and then that creates an issue for a woman who says yes I'm not gonna dance with another man I'm just gonna dance by myself but that's a problem because she cannot dance in a place where men are observing her so as far as giving a bad example it's a problem both for men and women to just sit there in terms of watching it's only problem for men women are allowed to watch other women or other men dance so if they have to stay and they will be watching for a woman it's less of a problem but for a man he cannot watch so what some men do they sit with their back to to the dancefloor and again that solves the problem that they're not watching women dance but again their presence there gives legitimacy to the whole event and that is a problem so again if you are invited to such such an event you should try to politely get out of it either say that you're not available that day you're busy you have another party to go to your twerk that would be the best if it's a close family then you go preferably just yes you just go for the hope reception and maybe beginning of the the meal when the or in between when there is no dancing and then you either step out or or or you [Music] leave completely that's that's that's the proper thing to do now the the yes we're photographers yes the some people ask what about a male video guy or male photographer who is taking pictures of videos of women so for that we have a special rule that a man who is involved in his job in his business he is allowed to look at women he is allowed to work with women and whether it is a doctor whether it is someone in jewelry who needs to look at women deal with them speak to them that is permitted because we assume that a person who who is busy taking care of his money matters of his customers he will be occupied with that and he's not going to be thinking about improper thoughts of course those that are more careful they get to photographers it's not required but there is such a such a stringency that man takes pictures and videos of the ladies side and a woman of a man takes pictures of the man's side and a woman of the ladies side but it's not required and often only one photographer does both however for somebody who is not working somebody who is not a caterer much gear or waiter and not a photographer for him to watch women dance is not allowed [Music] that's true in such a case it's better to get a non-jewish photographer but again this is not required even the Jewish photographer is allowed is allowed to take pictures of the ladies section now the the the the more complicated question is what if you are organizing a party a wedding and you would like to make it more kosher you would like to make separate dancing and you would like to wear a modest dress and your parents or your grandparents or your siblings your cousins are pushing you not to have a kosher wedding not to have separate dancing and not to wear a immodest dress this is unfortunately a common occurrence the food is culture the the the the groom is religious the bride is religious and she wears not modest wedding gown and the parents beg her just one time do a favor to us we're an open dress just one time after the wedding we don't care but just for us and often they cannot overcome this struggle and they give in and otherwise religious boy and a girl are dancing half-naked with other men and women unfortunately and that is something that shouldn't be done and let's let's speak about what can we do to avoid this problem with ourselves how not to give in to such pressure from your parents or our relatives so the first thing is if you would like to do something on a higher level than your parents it's very important to not be alone to get help to get other and friends on board who can support you for example if you can identify cousins siblings other relatives that are also religious and they would also be happy if there was separate dancing you should speak to them privately and make a plan how they're gonna speak to their parents and you're gonna speak to your parents and they're gonna convince their parents to speak to your parents and they're gonna speak to your parents to create a lot of noise and and talk about this to show your parents that you're not a single voice and other people will either be happy or upset if the wedding is kosher or not kosher and often that that helps and I've witnessed cases where at the beginning the parents wanted to have mixed dancing and from the because of the consistent pressure from the children and cousins they gave in and sometimes what happens is that another less than ideal but still an option is to convince them to have at least the first dance separate and you can again do that by pointing out that if the whole wedding is mixed then your religious cousins and the rabbi's and your friends and your teachers from yeshiva are not going to be able to participate and you really want them to participate and if your parents can at least accommodate them for the for the first 20 minutes there should be a method sir yes of course ideally the whole thing should be separate but if you if you see that you cannot win this battle and it's either going to be their way or no way then you can try the second option of at least the first half so that at least part of your wedding is with kedusha and part of the wedding the rabbi's and again the religious people can participate and at least you'll have something to show your grandchildren you can cut out the non cultural parts and show them the kosher part that's another point you can make to your your parents that I have to throw out the the video and my children not gonna know how our wedding went at least let us have part of it kosher to save for future generations after the wedding the preferably whoever is making the video he should make us either not have the part where women are dancing because again who knows who is going to be watching it in the future and if he does man shouldn't be watching those parts either they should close the eyes step out or skip that part or later you can cut that out if you just wants to create a private video just for the for the parents or he can watch his daughter dance but not anyone else dance again if the if the daughter is dancing only by herself with her mother then her father can watch and her sisters but if it's already friends and extended family then no man can watch pictures are better because it's less attractive so the person who is making the video should also preferably be knowledgeable person that understands the requirements of religious family so that he shouldn't video women dancing or you shouldn't put it into the video or he should make two two videos one for women and one for men they should be married sir if the women are dancing they should be mijita yeah yeah once women are dancing and men can see then they needs to be a myth it'sa not only for those that are dancing but even those that are sinning and then those men that are sitting on the side way they can see women dancing they should move to the men's side right and when you did the design designate seating that's another issue how will they sit it's it's okay illogical II to put clothes family both men women by the same table let's say onsen and and uncles and brothers and sisters and cousins it's okay if they are together but it creates a problem because when the women start dancing and men and women are together then some men will will inevitably end up on the women's side and they will be observing and if they are knowledgeable they will move to the men's side but if not then the women that are dancing are not supposed to be dancing if there are men on their side yes so either you you make a box which is not ideal it's usually small and it's far away and doesn't feel good it's better to either keep the seating separate or keep some tables just meant some tables just women and some tables mix for those that really want to sit in mixed sitting and then you ideally should put those on the man's side so that those men that are and usually those that sit by by tables with mix sitting they usually don't dance anyway which means they're gonna just be sitting and watching and if they are on a woman's side that's a problem both for those that are dancing and for themselves so again they were the easiest is to have separate seating as well if you need to have mixed seating you should designate some tables as mixed for those that specifically want to be in a mixed table and put those tables on a man's side so that they don't watch women dance yeah whether whether it is whether the source is in Torah or in prophets or it's a custom that Jewish people took upon themselves it doesn't really matter the the the modern the modern rule for religious people is that women then separately women don't dance in areas where men can watch them and this is what needs to be done again if family is not observant or they are not fully observant then they do whatever they want but that doesn't make it right the right right right so if you are the only one it's the hardest if you can bring your fiancee on your side and let him support you that's good if you can bring your cousin's on board if you can bring your friends and rabbis to speak to your family and to show them that there are many people who would like to to have separate dancing and singing it's going to be easier for you about that the address that's very important because the everybody is looking at the caller at the wedding by Hopa as she's going to the Hooper by on the dance floor as if everybody is looking at her and most of the pictures are going to be of her and of course she is the most beautiful on that day and all the men are going to be attracted and it's gonna ruin hosta Shalom there there Sheldon by their spiritual health and their children has a shadow are going to be negatively affected by all the improper looks that she's going to receive at the wedding so it's very important to get a beautiful dress but a modest dress that her the parts of her body that are supposed to be covered should be covered and it shouldn't be so attractive to the eye that the man that look will think improper thoughts of her so again the the color should be stronger it's her wedding after all and in some cases those that are strong the parents say we're making the wedding for you so you be quiet you know just listen to us because we're paying for it so if the color or the Hutton are strong they can say really you're not making this wedding this fancy wedding for me you're doing it for your own honor you you're doing it for your friends and your relatives to show that you're not worse than them if if it's up to us we're gonna make a simple wedding just invite our friends and close family make it in a cheap Ashkenazi style and it's yeah and it's gonna be it's gonna be so inexpensive that we're gonna make money on it all right so really the child shouldn't feel lost and without a way out because really if it would be up to them there would be much less headache everything would would happen quicker with more dignity with with more spirituality with more kedusha and instead of being in debt afterwards they would actually after all the gifts they would actually have some money left [Music] yeah this list this whole approach is incorrect because again in olden times when the boy and the girl got married as soon as they became mature twelve thirteen so of course they couldn't make their own wedding so the parents made the wedding for them nowadays when when the boy and the girl are in the late teens or early 20s or late twenties there is no reason for the parents to be making these decisions the the children are mature enough old enough and financially stable to make these decisions so so the wedding date is part of it you have to get married when it's good for you when it's convenient for you when it's both proper for your calendar for your job and for your college and for your friends and for your family you can of course be accommodating to your relatives and your parents but the main person at the wedding is you and and of course you have to treat them with respect but they cannot force you just because they pain again you don't need their money you can make the wedding without their money again it's going to be a better wedding more happy wedding with more holy wedding so you have to understand it first of all this way it's going to be easier for you not to fall prey to their to their demands and you will be able to convince them better if you understand that that you're thankful to them that they raised you you appreciate everything they've done for you you love them and respect them but for certain things that are important and really they are not their decision they're your decision they shouldn't take it away from you my question is to this and just overall it's like you know me religious already in one way and when they have these events if it's just parties or weddings whatever birthday parties and they have dancing and it's already like your different funding come by their house you don't if you come by their house when they get together so it's like I just had an event recently for a family member where my husband it was like dancing husband said I'm not going to said I want to go because I want to maintain family ties they come to our events where we have a kosher style event and I want to maintain family ties and I'm gonna come to show support for them so I ended up calling myself a Bronco was in a blockage I was able to eat but I didn't dance the whole time now it's like you know it's a wedding I don't know it's like well we're you know you want to maintain the family the relationship so it's like if I don't go to your events then it's I don't think they'll say I won't come to your events but you just don't feel the closeness anymore it's like now you're just like further and distant apart oh she's the one that doesn't do this and it's like that's not religion also religious unity so I'm not saying to do the wrong thinking although I guess this is the wrong thing yes yes yes it's it's a it's a difficult situation to be in and it's a situation that is very common and all of us experience it you have to look at it long-term sometimes sometimes you're right short term it's better not to fight it's better to keep close but long-term usually it works better when you have rules and you keep to them and those that have rules stick to them and those that don't have rules they adjust themselves to two to be able to communicate with those that have rules so since they don't have rules they can come to your parties and when they make their parties they have a choice to make it kosher and have you there or not to make it kosher and not have you there so you shouldn't feel that I'm the one that's that I'm separating myself from my relatives it's really their choice if they want to keep the family together they can make it in a glad kosher restaurant and they can make it with caution music and they can make it with either method sir or at least now man dance now women dance separate dancing either with minutes or at different times and the fact that they choose not to shows that the family is not important for them unfortunately they don't think about it like that they think that since I'm doing it everybody has to come and support me but if they know that certain certain people in my family will find it offensive and will will not be able to participate they have to make a choice themselves and they don't think about it like that but you have to point it out that really the choice is by you not by me I have rules you don't have rules so you have this choice I don't have this choice and your choice is do you want to keep family together then make an event that everyone will be able to participate in and by making an event that will exclude the religious people you show that you don't care about the family dancing with someone else's wife or someone else's husband is more important for you than having your cousins or maybe even your daughter at your at your event and they may be shocked by it and and may be upset at you but that's the truth and most of them really don't care about the family they only care about what people are going to say about their own honor and they're the ones that are dividing the family and the and they're blaming you for it well it's a kosher place why do they play music so they need to clean it on something else if this is a kosher facility Glatt Kosher then we should follow alright yeah yes you if you come to right right if you come to a restaurant that serves kosher food but they don't supervise the parties it could be a fault of the hajj gajja but it also could be the fault of the restaurant owner the the rajagaha is limited in its power and somehow jihad specifically only supervises the food and nothing else and somehow the hot try but just like the owner can trick the famous gear and he can sneak in non kosher food the owner can also trick the hajj gajja and have non kosher not food but non kosher parties with the mix dancing and music at times when you're not supposed to have and rajagaha might never know about it and even the much gear might not know about it because because again the heart chakra is not always present there and the mascara is supposed to be there 24/7 whenever the store is open but the machiya sometimes is not so knowledgeable he might know the few challah hot about to check the labels that it should be the kosher lay but not to mix me meat and milk but he might not know the laws of Omer or the three weeks so the much gear just out of ignorance might allow it without informing the the Hajj jihad and sometimes it's the the financial pressure from the customers or the owner that force the much gear and the rajagaha to do things that are not proper so if you explain it to them that either the Hajj Mahoney says the food is kosher nothing else the rest is up to people what they want to do so again coming back to your question what to do if you have to make a choice between your family or or religion so if you look at it long term it's like the case where the father called his son on Friday and he said my son I work on Shabbat you know but the doctor told me that I have a heart condition and that I shouldn't be working so tomorrow is the busiest day I will not be able to go because my doctor said I shouldn't it's dangerous my health so you go and work for me on Shabbat because you have the mitzvah of qiba davia and because it's picanha fish if you don't go to work for me I'm gonna go out to work against my doctor's orders and if I get heart attack or if I die it's gonna be your fault so what is the proper what is the proper this is a real case that was asked should the son go to work on Shabbat to save his father's life or not so so right so of course you shouldn't and even if you know that your father cannot leave his business alone and he will go and you know his condition and you know that it's very likely that he will die you still cannot go why because this you have to look at it long term and if you go once he's gonna say that's it from now on you have to start working every Shabbat because any Shabbat that you don't go I'm gonna go and that Shabbat he's gonna die so so the son has to know that when when when when a person is bringing the death upon himself you don't have to desecration about to save him he has a choice not to go out and work you don't have to go and and work on Shabbat to save somebody who who on purpose wants to wants to desecrate about and he's pushing you on it so here the same thing if you give in and you go and participate in such parties and you sit there and you mingle with them and you you keep your family ties together it's going to become the norm and they're going to say we don't have to do anything for them because they're the kind of religious people that are okay with it and we're gonna make regular parties and they're gonna come anyway and for long term you're choosing that as the as the norm for the rest of your life and your children's future you will have to participate in these parties where as experience shows that if you politely explain to them that you cannot participate in this in these events and you only come for the kosher part of it then then they will try to accommodate if they don't accommodate you and if they'd get angry and if they push you out of their life then it's not your fault it's not your problem you politely we're just following your your rules and it's their inflexibility their stubbornness their lack of care for family that caused it because everybody would understand if you have allergy to peanuts let's say and they say we're gonna make baby shower with a theme of peanuts everybody get dressed as peanuts and everybody bring peanuts and we're gonna throw peanuts at each other and you would say to them I'm sorry I cannot come to that it's against my rules I don't go to parties where where you have peanuts and they say no but it's for your family don't distance yourself come you you you're fanatic you you're separating the family if you don't come we're gonna we're not gonna talk to you everybody understands that they are the ones that have to be either accommodating or forgiving and you don't have to give in to your own detriment so so to over here if you have certain rules and allergies to immodestly dressed people and improper music and a non kosher food they have to accommodate you or be forgiving to your to your behavior and if they insist then they are at fault for being not understanding for being selfish yes that's why it's very important to have transparency and that they should know your religious level if they don't know because when you go you try to blend in and pretend you're one of them they're never gonna know and then you always have this struggle we spoke about it previously for your friends and your co-workers if they think that you're just a regular person like them then they will constantly invite you to their parties to their events to their holidays and you will every year from year to year you a few times a year you will have to break your head to find an excuse not to go if you would only be open with them and explain to them that you are observant Jew and you have these rules then everything will become so much easier they would respect you and you will have such easy such so much easier time excusing yourself so here also if you tell them in advance we only Glatt Kosher so right away they know not to invite you to such parties that are in just cultural restaurants and if you tell them or they will actually make it in Glatt Kosher because of you oh and if you tell them that i don't come to events where there is mixed dancing or women singers performers then they will not invite you at all or if they invite you and you say no they'll understand or they'll make for you kosher more kosher event [Music] like pushing us away so again you you you tell them that we made certain rules for ourselves for our family and to prevent issues to prevent mistakes to prevent that somebody is eating someone else's food by mistake they'll understand that we decided not to go to places where kosher and non kosher food is going to be in close proximity you can you can make such an excuse and as long as you are consistent you can invite them to a kosher place or a kosher event but not to go to their events and again once you are firm about it they'll they'll get it and they're not going to invite you to such event for example one of my distant relatives unfortunately is marrying a non Jew so they didn't send us invitation they sent to everybody except for us why because they know not only we're not going to come they know our opinion about this and they know we're gonna get hurt if they send us invitation they know it's going to be disrespectful to send invitation so they're not sending annotation but if we were wishy-washy about it they would send invitation and they would expect us to come and then it would be our problem our trouble to try to get out of it so by being open you are moving the you're shifting the the the the blame and trouble on them and now they have to explain themselves they know you you don't eat such in such places they know you don't attend such events so why are they inviting and if they do invite you can tell them we've spoken about it before and you know that we don't go to such events if there is a possibility for you to do it differently we'll be happy to come or we can come before the event we can come after the event in a different day and we can make a separate party for you just to congratulate you and dance with you but we cannot come to this event so by being a little bit more for at the beginning of your relationship with them you're making it so much easier for the rest of your life and and also about your children as your children grow and now their cousins are going to be making hair cutting ceremony Bar Mitzvah wedding and all the other events birthday parties you will have constant struggle what do I say do we go do we not go and it's not a good education for your children to be at such events or to be faced with such such decisions so you you can make you can make special playdates you can make special events in your home or in the kosher restaurants and invite them and go to them separately without these issues and and just put in extra effort and they can and at the end of the day if they their cousins choose to remain not religious and non-supportive of you not accepting so that could be the best thing because it's better to be as they say it's better to be right distant but with good relationship with your close ones then to be close and fight and hate each other has a shadow so long-term it's better to be polite but firm and state your rules there are different ways of being close you can just sit at their party while they're dancing and you feel that that makes you close or calling more often visiting them more often one on one develop developing have rooted like partners in Torah or Torah mates and offering them learn with you once a week for 15-20 minutes you can you can be close with them sending them gifts sending them Jewish articles or Jewish books for their birthdays remembering their birthdays calling them whenever they or their children have birthdays encouraging your children to speak to them to call them without attending their their their events and again even if they are upset you have to look at a long term alternative is it better to be to have upset cousins but have a strong relationship with your children and be strong together in your observance and to be close to Hashem or to try to satisfy everybody but at the same time be lost in your relationship with God the Board says that meeting our Bailey says her heck Misha Hendra distance yourself from a bad neighbor so you might say you know what he's my neighbor let me be close to him let me be friends with him maybe I'll influence him so the turkey Awad says no distance yourself from as they say good fences make good neighbors sometimes sometimes having some distance actually makes a good relationship on the other hand if you are too close to people who don't think like you don't behave like you it's not going to be close anyway you're gonna rub them wrong the wrong way they're gonna rub you the wrong way you're gonna have fights why do you do this why don't you do that and it's not good for your children to too play with cousins that are not religious in many ways they will learn bad words from them bad concepts from them bad behavior from them and eventually as they grow they will have less and less in common and they will have less and less to discuss your children will be more mature more thinking more thoughtful and and serious and the other cousins are going to be less mature and and more childish and not thinking at all and they will want to speak about topics that your children either don't want to talk about or not supposed to talk about and then you'll have other issues of how to protect your children this way you don't have to think about because your children are already protected it's it's a dangerous thing to say both for you and for their relationship it's very difficult for the husband to say to his wife such such things that she should be more modest next time and it's not good for you so either you should speak to her and ask her that my children are not used to this they live in a religious neighborhood they go to religious school they only see Jewish women covered and they get shocked and they don't understand why their grandmother or their aunt is dressed like a non Jew and they think that that that you're not Jewish and why don't you dress more in the way they're used to so that they identify you as a Jew because really they think that you're you're not Jewish the real yes yes you're right you're right in the real world they understand that not everybody's Jewish in the real world they understand that people behave in a not good way when we drive and we see a homeless person they know that he's different when they see women on a street dressed not in a proper way they don't know that there is a difference they see that but they don't know that their grandmother right is is is as a woman that behaves improperly and it's very difficult for them and not only that it's not good for you you as a grandmother want to have grandchildren that respect you that look up to you you don't want them to say oh our grandmother is a sinner our grandmother is ignorant our grandmother is rebellious so for your own relationship with your grandchildren dress the way that they would respect you so if you say it in a way that you show your concern for her that it's for her own benefit that the children her nieces or nephews or grandchildren or cousins should should look at her as as a respectable person and not look down on her and you can say that yes I explained to them that they grew up in Soviet Russia and they never went to yeshiva and they just don't know but for your own sake why should they think that you're ignorant at least pretend pretend to to dress modestly pretend to keep meets what pretend to keep Shabbat pretend to say blessings pretend to wash hands before you eat just so that your grandchildren and your nieces and nephews think well of you they're just children I cannot control them they will naturally think that that you're not you you're not doing the right thing otherwise if you cannot tell them to come dressed modestly you should only invite them in the wintertime or make sure that the air condition in your house is very low so so that you avoid this issue yes and one more idea about the wedding if you are in unfortunately in such a situation where your parents win and they have it their way to have mixed dancing so then it's a problem for you to dance so at least what you can do is to between the collar and hat on you can agree to invite a lot of Cotton's friends at least for the first dance and they should form the inner circle and dance with the hat on collar put the Hat ankle on a chair and they should sit and they will dance this way at least the friends and the rabbis and the religious relatives will be able to participate in dancing without seeing everything and then when they dance afterwards they can leave but but and if the relatives will allow they can kidnap the hat on and dance with him separately for the whole wedding yes yes yeah if you're strong yes if you are strong then you will win because they will have no choice they cannot make a wedding without the color so if you're strong enough and you know some some some young young men and women don't know that there is another way to make a wedding and they don't know that they can afford to make a wedding without their parents support if would just be aware of it they would have more strength to stand up to their parents and say this is something I cannot give in I cannot dance without a man if you want to dance with mixed mixed dances fine so make one section just for women all dens they make one section just for man the hot Anna's gonna dance there and whoever doesn't care will dance in the middle