Daf Hashavua - Nazir 15b

This Torah class is brought to [music] you by torahanytime.com. Okay, welcome everyone. We're continuing in masechet Nazir daf amud bet. We're trying to explain the reasoning behind the ruling of Rav. Rav says the 70th day is it comes to Nazirites. If you say I'm going to be a Nazir when my son is born and I'm going to be a Nazir for 100 days, so you start counting the Nazirites. And then Rav is of the opinion the 70th the 70th day could count as two days. The longest we said yesterday actually does not come from Tosafot. It comes from the Rosh. Tosafot doesn't really explain how the mechanism of a one day counting as two days. The way the Rosh explains it is that if the son is born on the 70th day, so the 70th day the first part of the day makes us that counted as the 70th day for you. But then later in the day when the kid is born it's the first day for the son. Once it marks the first day for the son it marks the second day for you. So where did Rava get this from? I'm sorry, where did Rav get this from? So the Gemara wants is attempting to say that he got it from Abba Shaul. We learned in the Mishna if you bury a mess three days before Yom Tov, so that's observance of three days is shiva. If you if you bury the mess eight days before Yom Tov, it's shloshim. And uh you need to shave erev Yom Tov. If you didn't shave erev Yom Tov you can't shave after. Okay, then we have the opinion and this is where we're up to now Abba Shaul says that you have to shave before the holiday. Even if you didn't cut your hair before the Yom Tov, you're allowed to take a haircut after. Why is it that observing three days is shiva? Just like observing three days is shiva, observing shiva is Nazirite shloshim. So too, the mitzvah of shiva is mevatel nazirus of lamed yom. If you observe shiva is mevatel shloshim. Meaning, if you observe the shiva, so then it's mevatel shloshim. Right? The Tanna Kamma holds you need to observe eight days. And Abba Shaul holds, no, that if you observe seven days, it's mevatel shloshim. Now, why in the world would that be? My time with Abba Shaul. L'Abba Shaul me-kasaver shvi'i oilam kano kometz. Mostly because he holds on the seventh day in the morning after a small amount of time, we say miktzas hayom k'kulo. So, you observe the seventh day. And now, the remainder of the day counts toward the observance of the beginning of the shloshim. Now, he holds another thing. He also holds and argues that even if you don't take a haircut before the Yom Tov, you could take a haircut after the Yom Tov. The Tanna Kamma held even if you observe eight days, if you don't take the haircut before the Yom Tov, then that's not called uh being mevatel you you haven't stuck your foot in the door to say, "You know what? I already finished observing the aveilus before Yom Tov." So, really it's a double machlokes between Tanna Kamma and Abba Shaul. Tanna Kamma holds you need to get eight days in. Abba Shaul holds seven days are sufficient because seven day could count as two days. Plus, you don't have to have taken a haircut. To which the Gemara says, "Really? That's where Rav got it from? Rav learned out the dinei nazirus from shiva? Wait a second." Dinei shiva, observing shiva is d'Rabbanan. Now, that's not that pashut. But, dilma adkan lo kamai Abba Shaul ela b'aveilus shiva d'Rabbanan. Maybe Abba Shaul only said it regarding aveilus of seven days, which is mid'Rabbanan. Now, that that's a question. Is aveilus Usually we say aveilus yom rishon d'Oraisa. There is biblical source for 7 days. Shloishim not. Now, but in any event, the Gamorah is saying openly, maybe Abba Shaul only said you could have you count one day as two days regarding of those rabonon. Abba ben Nazir by Nazir not. Now, here's another thing. Really? But we also mentioned last night that part of the chiddush that we of Rav is also the reason why Rav would say you could shave on the 101st day or the reason why he could say uh you could shave a little bit early is because since anyway you could have done it uh what since once you count 100 days mid or I say you've done whatever you needed to do, so so we'll be lenient on the rabonon. So Rav's leniency is also predicated on the rabonon by Nazirites, but at least at least the iker Nazirites is the I say. So in other words, you can't extrapolate from avilos which is rooted in the I say to Nazir. I'm sorry, you can't extrapolate from avilos which is the rabonon to Nazirites which is the I say. Let's see toisus. Abba Shaul feel like super erev hareiga motal the saper hareiga. Abba Shaul holds even if you didn't shave erev Yom Tov, you're allowed to shave after Yom Tov. Poleg at the come here argues on the to sever the regular of the whole onion. Tana kama holds he holds, excuse me, Abba Shaul holds the regulars is bottle no matter what. Upoleg achriti. He argues on another thing. Shame shmitsas gimel vatels derech Zion. He holds just like if you observe three days is mavatel seven. Vatels derech Zion. Upoleg at the come. He also argues on the come the matzoh chos. Love me some the kasav yom zayin not because he holds the seventh day is oiler for the count of seven or mix oiler leminion lamon and part of the seventh day counts toward 30. I will pay sure I made them even though you're in middle of the avails. And the gamora says, well, you can't learn out from rabona to the nose of the avails rabona the men of Torah avails. Midair I see you're not an avails earlier machine. Kiddo save. Ah, twice it says midair I say avails is only the first day like it says the recent key on there. And the end is a bitter day. I will be the zeros day right so but by the zeros day right so the darshina mikra we darshan from the pasik the in the lamid that you need 30 days. The concept that the zeros needs 30 days we learn out from yeah. Why am I not the mix of I'm oiler oiler kind of oiler kind. Maybe regarding the zeros which is sourced biblically we don't say mix of say I'm kind of oiler or we don't say oiler oiler kind of oiler kind. So with then where did Rav get this from? Where did Rav get this then that the day counts oiler kind of oiler kind says Rav Rav the time you're saying oiler say I'm saying oiler kind of oiler kind. A woman who has to guard one day corresponding to the day that she saw to my basically normally if a woman has a flow she's telling me for seven days. She's a nida. Doesn't matter if she bleeds for one day or seven days when seven days are over she goes to the mikvah and she's tahor. I why we we for our women they have to have shiva nakiam it's nothing to do with nida. It's not because they're a A nida doesn't need shiva nakiyim. After the 7 days, she has an 11-day period where she be she could become a zava. If she sees dam during these 11 days, then if she sees once, she becomes tame. All she has to do is have one clean day, and she goes to the mikvah even before she finishes counting that clean day, and that woman, if she saw during that period one time, she's a zava ketana. Two times, zava ketana. She sees three times, either three consecutive days or in a shorter amount of time, she becomes a zava gedola. She's a zava gedola, she now needs shiva nakiyim. Okay? Not such doesn't count 7 days. She needs shiva nakiyim. Our woman at the same might be a zava gedola require shiva nakiyim. So, the whole concept of shiva nakiyim for us is khumra on top of khumra on top of khumra. Okay? So, basically, we consider every nida a zava. One of some place can say that's one of the reasons we don't go to the Har HaBayit cuz we have to consider every baal keri a zav. A man might be a zav. Now, is that really possible today? Some place can say, "Yeah." Now, a zav is not is not in like takana. You could go to a mikvah of mayim khayim. Yeah, you could go to a mikvah of mayim khayim, which is metahar the zoykhlin because she came by Ashberin. Yeah, but So, let's talk about this case. Ela Rav Dama said the tanya of Yosi I'm here, "Shoy meres yam can I get yam?" A woman who's she's guarding one clean day because she saw blood during the 11-day juncture, she shakh to vizarku alaha. Now, this woman, it's erev Pesach. and she's in limbo. Aside from the fact that she's high strung because it's already Arab Pesach and you know she's worried about the chametz. She's also not sure whether she'll be able to eat the carbon Pesach this year. Yesterday she saw blood. Poor lady. >> [snorts] >> This poor lady has her zava um period scheduled for the day before Arab Pesach and now Arab Pesach she's in limbo. I I just have a feeling that this lady is a lady married to the guy who said in 20 days I'm going to be a Nazir. Meanwhile I'm going to be a Nazir for 100 days because you know that just the type of lady that she would get that kind of husband. I'm just I'm feeling it. You know but anyway so this woman she's in limbo. Right now if she's clean today she'll be able to eat the carbon Pesach in the evening. If she's not clean today she will not be able to eat the carbon Pesach in the evening. Anyway we saw take the shakta the whole sheep. They shakted it and they were zark the dam on the mizbeach besheni shala. On her second day meaning on the day that she needs to be clean by acher kakarosa. And it's her mazel obviously an hour before Yom Tov she saw. Okay? She cannot eat the carbon Pesach. No kidding you know. And does she have to do Pesach Sheni? No. Why in the world would she be patur from Pesach Sheni? Inexplicable. Of course she has to do a no. The mission says she doesn't have to Pesach Sheni. Why? We'll see. My time of the Rebbe Yossi. Why does Rebbe Yossi hold this way? Very simple. Lame because it's a Yom Kaku Lai. It's because he holds part of a day is like the whole day. So what does that mean? The first part of the day that she didn't see is a clean day. She went to the mikvah. They shach did the carbon Pesach. [clears throat] The shach carbon Pesach was shach did in good faith for this woman. So, she was mikayem the inyan that a Jew has that a carbon Pesach should be shach did for them. Then, she became tameh. When did she become tameh? On a different day. It's as if she bled on the third day. Because she went to the mikvah, they shach did the carbon Pesach. And it's not she You know who has to get pushed off to a Pesach Sheni? Someone who they couldn't shach for him to begin with. But, they shach did it for the woman in good faith. She didn't see in the morning. She went to the mikvah. She was hoping she would uh remain clean the rest of the day. The rabbi gave her like this vitamin regimen, you know? You ever know You know these rabbis? They know the exact vitamins to take. By the way, there there are. Vitamins to take. It works every time. You take the vitamin, it's She will not see dam. It works. It's um I'll tell you what it is. It's 3,000 mg. Don't tell anybody I said this. 3,000 mg of bioflavonoid. And like cranberry extract. A woman who's staining will not She'll be clean as a whistle. But, it doesn't work for a zava. It only works for a nida, okay? I I can't tell you if it works for a zava, actually. I don't know. But, it works for a staining? Oh, it works very well. Anyway, now the doctor I know the doctors won't acknowledge it, but it works. L'maaseh, it works. Anyway, she took it. It didn't work. It didn't work. Does she get pushed off to Pesach Sheni? No. Why? Cuz at the time they shach did it, uh she was a valid woman. Says the Gemara, mikano laha bo metameh. Now, when she becomes tameh later in the day, does she become tummy retroactively? No, she comes tummy from here and on. So, the lung does here is predicated on the on the idea that in the morning when she was clean that counts as a clean day. Day two is clean and then later on the afternoon when she saw that's ill she saw on day three. That's where Rav got it from that you could count one day as two days. So, what does Tosafot say? Take a look at Tosafot. Tosafot says Wow. I love a villa Estrada bonus. Only by a villa Estrada bonus. The minute Torah Her second day was our Pesach. The rose and then she She can't eat the Pesach at night with fish she need more. Because she's tummy up to her molasses Pesach and she's potter from making the Pesach. The the beshas shrita to her rasa because at the time of shrita she was tahar. Night time the Ravioli see She's only tummy from here and on. Nimza kiba shas shrita was Rica his Atari Goma. Comes out when they shakta did and they splits the blood she was completely tahar. The me Cano la haba hima tama that from here and on she's tummy. The loyal master here. So, she would in the morning she was tahar. That was mix of say I am cook a lie and whatever to me was later is from here and on. When she sees again with Tommy and let me count a lot she becomes Tommy and me Cano la haba. Well, I'm a market she more Gomer la mix us Yuma za. Tomorrow she'll have to wait the complete day for having seen on day two. Part of the day on day two we count as a tahor day. They'll have a shimore She was guarding it for the to be tahor corresponding to yesterday. The shchita of the Pesach, the zrika of the Pesach was done bitahara. Part of it we consider like a day of tumah. They'll have a yom shel machar shimore that the next day you need to be shomer connected. The rabbis argue on this. They are metamei lamafraia. tumah. They count day two as completely tumah kiyam shel esmol like yesterday. For Rav the amor k'Rav Yosi Rav holds like Rav Yosi. Even though there is a svara to consider this second day as if she's completely tumah just like the first day like the Rabbanan. No, Rav Yosi machashvi l'chano l'chan. What's the svara of Rav? Behind the kesvos Rav. This other girsa mishum d'Rav lo garsinan lo nagarsit dilav hachi mai mahani she'eina metamei lamafraia. I don't know what that other girsa is. The dafa shevua booklet forgot to say which part of these Tosafos we need to do. So, we basically have to do every single line of Tosafos. But that I don't know what the other girsa is. I'm not going there right now, okay? The bottom line is the Gemara finds in the opinion of Rebbi Yosi an instance where we say a day is a kind of a kind, namely the second day which is our Pesach, which is supposed to be a clean day. We use the morning that that she's considered clean and therefore the shita and the zika of the korban Pesach is valid and then the later tuma on that day which we say she's tumi mikana lava that is considered a tumi day. But it's all happening in this one day. This is the basis of the shita of Rav. The Gemara is going to ask now, wait a second, even Rebbi Yosi uh himself doesn't hold this. Says the Gemara, "Misa Rebbi Yosi, how can Rebbi Yosi hold this way? But then we learned in a braisa Rebbi Yosi omer zav baal sh'tei re'iyos a zav who saw twice Now what's the difference between a zav that sees once and a zav that sees twice? A zav that sees once is like a regular baal keri and a zav that sees twice becomes an av hatuma. A zav that sees three times not only is an av hatuma but needs to be a bring uh two birds as korbanos. So now let's talk about a zav. Again, a zava that sees once or twice only has to be shomeres yom keneged yom. If she sees three times, she has to count shiva neki'im. Let's talk about a zav. Vatanyu Rebbi Yosi omer zav baal sh'tei re'iyos, a zav who saw twice she shachtu v'zarku al avashvi'i and they shachted for him and they sprinkled the blood on korban Pesach on his seventh day Why does he need seven days? Cuz he saw twice, so he's an Av Hatumah. And uh he needs Shiv'ah Nekiyim. And they shochted it for him, and they sprinkled the blood on the seventh day. V'chein Shomeres Yom K'neged Yom Sheshochtah V'zarkah Lah, or a woman who is Shomeres Yom K'neged Yom That Shochtah On The Seventh Day. V'achar Kach Ro, and then they saw a third time. Af Al Pi Shemitamein Mishkav Umashav L'mafreia, when they see the third time on the seventh day they're Mitamei L'mafreia. They're not Mitamei Only Mikan Ul'aba. They're Mitamei Retroactively. But still Paturin Milases Pesach Sheini. They're still exempt from bringing the Pesach Sheini. So wait a second. The Tumah is L'mafreia? What does it mean? Um They're Mitamei Mishkav Umashav. A Zav Bal Shalosh Re'os Or Stam, any Zav is Mitamei whatever he sits on or lies on, even if there are a million mattresses in between uh him and the bottom mattress, the bottom mattress is Tamei. So here Rebbe Akiva says he's saying the Tumah does go L'mafreia. It doesn't go Mikan Ul'aba. You don't have your cake and eat it. And still he holds that you're Patur from bringing the Pesach Sheini. Says the Gemara, so this is a big problem. Let's see Tosafos. Zav Bal Shte Re'os, the Eev Bal Shlosha If he saw three times, Lo Chazi L'mechal He would not be able to eat the Korban Pesach. You see, the Zav Bal Shte Re'os, it's day seven. So if he goes to the Mikvah when the night is over when the day is over, he can eat the Korban Pesach. But a zav ba'al shnei re'iyot cast away until he brings korbanos the next day. L'achar d'rosh shlishi'us, if he saw a third time ad yom shevi'i o vi'korbanosav o vi'yom shevi'i lo motzi l'mincha And uh it can't be talking about the eighth day, it's going to be already Pesach. metamei And then he saw metamei mishkav u'moshav l'mafreia. He is metamei what he lies on and sits on retrospectively. D'mei'im zayin v'eilach because from the seventh day and on, pasak mistira From the seventh day and on, I don't know what this line of Tosafos is saying. That from the seventh day and on I don't I don't know I don't know what this I don't know what this line of Titus is saying. But the Gamara's question on Rabbi Yosi is that we see that Rabbi Yosi is of the opinion that tuma does go l'mafreia. Now, that's not consistent to what we said earlier cuz we just said earlier that Rabbi Yosi is of the opinion that the one day could go mikan ul'kan. The tahara of the morning could count toward being shomer yom k'neged yom. And that's what's machsher the bringing of the korban. And then later when you see later on, the tuma goes mikan ul'aba. And here we're saying the tuma is l'mafreia. So, the Gamara has the following answer. The Gamara answers, "Mai l'mafreia?" Mid'rabbanan. It goes l'mafreia only mid'rabbanan. But mid'Oraisa, the tuma is only mikan ul'aba. So, really mid'Oraisa, Rabbi Yosi does hold that we say the day is olei l'kan ul'kan. Hakhna'mi mistabra. It's mistaber that the tuma is only going mid'rabbanan. L'mafreia, why? Cuz if it was going l'mafreia d'Oraisa, how in the world could the korban Pesach be good? The The Mishna says the korban Pesach is still good. Why is the korban Pesach good? The The woman never had a sha'as ko'ach. The man never had a sha'as ko'ach. There was never a moment that the person was ro'i to be able to eat the korban later in the night. The fact that the halacha is she doesn't get they don't get pushed off the Pesach sheini means mid'Oraisa they were ro'i to eat the korban. Just d'rabbanan are machmir when it comes to tuma l'mafreia. Disak d'Oraisa mid'Oraisa am I patur milasos Pesach sheini? >> Even if they were to be free. Then. Even if they were told on the seventh day, whatever they lay on after the free love is. Tell me so so many of you know it. It undoes his count. Do I have your receipt? I have your receipt. The the pushes off really I'll tell you. Thomas had to. Had to hide the zebra. One second is this going on the right thing? No, we have to we have to read a few more. What? >> No, it's the last time I was there. >> Okay, we have to do a couple more lines. Says Gamora. One way of understanding the right so is. That says it is only that it's not a. And it's only time to drop on on. Or you could say you could really say. That the time it goes to my prayer. I. If that's the question if that's the case, how in the world could a piece of be a kosher carbon? The answer is to hide the zebra here too. This is a tumor. Of zebra. The tumor of zebra is known as Thomas to hide. What is Thomas to him? Thomas to him is Thomas to him is a tumor whose origin is impossible to dig to the root of. For example, let's say there's tumor that's buried extremely deep down into the ground. So, even though if somebody walks on top of it, they'll become tummy, there are certain coolers that apply to it because it was impossible for anybody to have any awareness of its whereabouts. The same thing with Thomas Ziva. It's something that could just come on at any time. It's There's no way to know when it's going to happen. And therefore, even if it's Thomas Raisa, nevertheless, and the my friend, it's Tommy Raisa. There are certain leniencies, namely one of them would be that if you become Tommy later, even though everything became Tommy retroactively, nevertheless, the carbon Pesach would still be kosher. Says to Isis, I can only miss Tabra. The doctor that I might push this off. Hey Malacca, really I'll tell you Thomas had to him the Ziva hit you through. That the tumor of the to him of Ziva is motor. Meaning, they were mattered. Hey Malacca, my tummy is my tummy is my tummy could be it's my tummy is my tummy is my tummy friend. We'll be touring last us Pesach Shani. And you're exempt from making a Pesach Shani. The Allah machine, I it's all my Allah machine here. The tumor the maze who drew the I say Pesach. Maybe it's Allah machine, I that a Thomas maze is motor for those who make the carbon Pesach. >> This time it holds even Thomas had to hide him of Ziva is motor for those who are involved in carbon Pesach. Now what is the time have to do over here? We're not talking about Thomas of a deep grave. We're talking about a woman or a man becoming a Ziva or a Ziva. So Thomas says perish the Bashas Shrita Yasha at the time of Shita he sat on a stone. Let's say you didn't know at all there was a cover underneath him at Shita. The law is like this. Let's say a guy shocked at carbon Pesach and after shocked at it, he was told 5,000 ft under the ground there's a cover. So now what? He gets pushed off the Pesach Shaini? No. It's called Thomas to him. He does not get pushed off the Pesach Shaini. So too if after the Shita somebody became a Ziva or a Ziva, that's like Thomas coming from this deep down mysterious place and you don't have to go to Pesach Shaini. Okay? So that is the opinion of Rabbi Yossi. Now Um so one shot is that Rabbi Yossi holds Thomas is the my friend I'm a job on them and one is not to my friend I but we're still make over it comes to carbon Pesach. And um One second. I need to pause for one minute. >> Recording stopped. >> Okay, says the Gamara the off Rabbi Yossi the my friend I am a job my job on them. Rabbi Yossi also holds not like the second possibility that the Thomas is the my friend I am a job on them. Thomas is the my friend I am a job on them. The time you learn from Rabbi Yossi I am here. A royal Ziva shall I so special fun. Someone sees Thomas Ziva on the seventh day of the Shivani came. So then it demolishes the the first seven days. I am a liar Rabbi Yossi no lying is there I am here. It only uproots, it only demolishes that one day. What does it mean it only demolishes that one day? So we said that a zav has to uh have shiva nakiyim. So let's say you see on the seventh day, Rebbe Yeshaya says, that's it. >> [laughter] >> You're up the creek without a paddle. You need another seven clean days. Rebbe Akiva says no, it only ruins that day. Says the Gemara, what? If it demolishes, then you have to do seven days. If it doesn't demolish, then why wouldn't that day count? It doesn't even demolish that day. Why not? Maybe because mix says I am kakula. That day in the morning he didn't see, so it's like it's counted. Let's see Tosafos and then we'll see more next time. Um when we finish the perek. You know, it's like a This is like the end of the the end of perek bais of nazirus. It's like the time of the of the the second perek. This is This is uh hardcore taharos here in nazirus. Says Tosafos, the afra d'Rebbe Akiva ashinuya d'lo mafria d'Rabbanan. This is going on the first answer, the retroactive tumah d'Rabbanan is d'Rabbanan. Aval haraya d'zav perush Rashi b'kitzas shailin lo ya dinan aheicha k'Rashi says he doesn't even know what is going on. The aval. What do you mean but? But well, who said anything before that you're saying but? So so shulchan av, sifurim, the days that were counted shasaf that were >> Rabbi Yossi said it should only be so so that day. You should go and count if it uproots You have to count Okay. I'm not doing an alternate guess on this, okay? So the Gamara says We're not even going to demolish that day while if you should count because we already counted part of that day. He already Okay? And we're going to hold it over here. Thank you everyone. Yeah, so the the bottom line is Rav got it from Rabbi Yossi. from the Halacha that if you see on the seventh day the count has to be still valid. that said that the tumor does go to my friend. And ultimately we say even if the tumor goes to my friend, maybe it's only my job and none. But my diary sir the day counts both directions and that's the Makar of Shitas Rav. That the seventh day is the kind of the kind. Okay? Yeah. You've just experienced another Torah [music] class brought to you by torahanytime.com.