My Take On The “Agunah Crisis” (Ep. 280)

Hi, this is David Olowski and welcome to the Rabbi Olowski show. Whether you're watching with our friends over at Tury Time or wherever you watch or listen to your podcast, as always, it's wonderful to have you along. And do not forget to like, share, subscribe, and comment. And uh we have a sponsor for this episode. And then we're out of sponsors. So, if next week there's no show, you'll understand why. But if you're thinking of sponsoring, this is the time. This one is sponsored by Ti War. Hi, Rabbi. I have listened to most of your shurum and shows over these many years and have gained from them and enjoyed them very much. Thank you. Thank you for listening. I really appreciate it. And uh I've said it before, I'll say it again. uh the fact that so many people are willing to take time out and um and listen to me. I'm not talking about the loyal followers who call themselves a reality crazies and I'm not talking about the crazy crazies. I've met at least six of them in the past month who have committed to memory everything I have ever said. You know, I can't start a sentence without them finishing it. But even just you dilotons who listen every once in a while etc. Thank you so much because uh uh I know people who make podcasts and nobody listens and it's so sad. So thank you everybody. Okay. Um it uh I have mentioned more than once uh that I'm not always sure what to talk about. We're not doing a series. when I'm doing a uh a safer, I sit down each time and I say, "So, what should I talk about?" And uh I ask anybody who happens to be around for ideas and if not, I just wait to see if something hits me. Yeah. So, unbeknownst to me, uh, producer Israel put up on the WhatsApp group, and for those who are not familiar, there is a Revolki WhatsApp group for suggestions, and um, number of people submitted a number of ideas, and there was one of them that I felt like I needed to address sooner rather than later. It reads as follows. When I was in seminary and asked Rabiolski the question of a gnote, he gave an answer that didn't really sit well with me. That was 20 years ago. But the gist was that the men need to be in control in order for the marriage to work and that we couldn't and shouldn't put anything in place that would stop them from being in feeling in control and that we never put loopholes in any other area. Why would we in this area? I would love to know if I remember his answer correctly or if there is a better answer now about the Aunote problems that seem to be so prevalent in the community. Thank you. Um that's not exactly what I [Laughter] said. Um I uh I took four college courses um in an attempt to make my parents happy and then I realized nothing I would do would ever make them happy. So I just stopped. I couldn't see spending four years um and I have tremendous respect for people who do. I wasn't planning on becoming a doctor or a uh an engineer or anything that I really needed professional uh work with that uh that would have necessarily helped me that I needed a college degree for. But my parents being Jewish uh parents felt like everybody needs to go to college. Jackie Mason once said, "Jewish kids were going to colleges before they were colleges. Their parents used to make them stand in a field and say, "Stand here till they build a college." Yeah. And um uh they it's it's taken on anor status. And especially when you see what's going on campuses now, um one really needs to reconsider what a college degree is worth in the in the general world. Um and uh uh so um I went to Queens College, Knight College when I was in Kavatim in Forest Hills and I signed up for introduction to psychology and sociology. Neither of which impressed my parents. Uh but that was the director I would head in. Obviously it would be something in you know uh psychology or something like that. and uh they weren't too impressed. So, I didn't sign up again when I ran away from home, which is how my parents still refer to my moving out to Los Angeles where I was uh teaching and learning out there. And uh they made another push. So, I went to a night college at Valley College, the local community college, and um I decided this time I'll take what I'm interested in and I took uh journalism and uh and broadcasting. This just sounded more interesting to me. I figured if if they're not going to be happy with what I do anyway, I might as well take something that I found interesting. And I have to say of all of the courses I took, journalism was the most interesting. It was being taught by someone who used to be an editor at the LA Times. And um he knew all the dirty side of journalism, which is what I found absolutely fascinating. He taught me a few things, not me, but to the class that I found fascinating. The most effective way to fold a piece of paper to get the most writing on it. He says you hold it and make two folds so you have basically a vertical um and you have six columns and allows you to write the most. He also said always carry a lot of pens. He says because you know if you run out of paper you can always write on your shirt sleeve or you can pull out your shirt tail and write on it but um if you run out of a pen you're really messed up. You don't know what to do. So, uh, another piece of advice, but he gave two other pieces of advice that I found, uh, helpful. And one of them was, um, learn how to read upside down. So that way when you're interviewing somebody and they get a phone call, you can read everything on their desk. That was, and this is the kind of class it was. It was just great, you know. And the other thing he said is like this. If you have a really good question, don't ask it at the press conference because then the TV people will just dub in their own guy asking the question and the guy giving the answer and you'll have used up your great question. So he says, "What you do is you wait till the end of the press conference and you position yourself in the doorway. So when the guy's leaving, he has to pass by you. and let's say he, you know, um, made this press conference to announce his support for the new, you know, um, stadium that was going to be built. So, as he's leaving, you say, "So, just to be clear, you oppose the building of the stadium." Now, he has no choice. He has to say, "No, no, no, no. I'm in favor of the stadium." And then you say, "Oh, is that because your brother-in-law won the contract? So, I thought that was absolutely fascinating. I've incorporated some of these things into life. I I often take more than one pen with me. And um uh so the um but that idea is also that you say, "Okay, so let me get clear. You said the following." No, that's exactly not what I said. Yeah. So there are some elements to what I said uh in that uh response. I will try to clarify it and I will accept all of the responsibility. Clearly I was not that clear. Why do I say that? Because since I was teaching Sharim probably no place did he actually mention in aa the question must have come up ag and so I probably gave my answer in shorthand. So I will assume total responsibility for the fact that uh the lack of clarity but I'm going to try to say it a little clearer if I can. Now the problem of aa is obvious and that is of course that only uh man can give a get to his wife. This gives him a position of power over his wife which is not the intention of the Torah. Obviously, nobody would imagine that a Kuraku said that only a man can give the get to his wife uh in order for him to blackmail her or to you know cause her pain etc. That's uh and some people look at this as a flaw in the system and therefore there are those people who suggest writing a prenup that guarantees that upon divorce they will have to give him a get. There are others who hold that that is makes the whole kaducian puzle if you put in a prenup. I'm not going to get into the hoka ramifications. Suffice it to say, there are some people who are very much in favor of it and some people who are very opposed to it. Um, I think New York State passed the GET law which says that you have to um, uh, if you have to remove any impediment to your wife being able to get remarried in order for you to get a divorce. There are others who hold that that is considered um coercion and in order to be able to give a get you have to give it by ratson. Now having said that it's a very strange thing of the kumar if baston says you have to get a get and you refuse they can beat you until you agree to give the get. That's not called coercion. Why? Because the garra says because really the guy wants to do the right thing and give the get but as yahur is stopping him. So you got to beat the devil out of him. So that when he says yes I want to give the get he's not saying it because of the beating. the beating just um weakened the Yatesahara enough in him that he wants to do the right thing. This seems like a very strange idea, but I've spoken about this in the past where people have asked me what if who I really am is somebody evil like in my essence I'm evil. I said you believe that you're really mammish somebody who's evil Darth Vader. Then I realized that's not a good example because he does Chuva in the at the end of the movie. I can't be I You mean Voldemort who split his soul so many times that there was nothing left. That was spoiler alert. Skip the next part if you're still waiting to read it. Um in book seven when he uh when he dies and he sees this little scaly, you know, creature over there, that's all that's left of Voldemar in the future because he split his soul so many times. because there's nothing left to him to to continue onwards, you know. Um and he says to Dumbledore, "Who is that?" He says, "You can't help him. He's too far gone." So, um you you're you're Voldemort. You split your soul so many times that your mama stick evil. So, I said, "Let me ask you a question. When you die and you get up to Shmayim, are you going to be plotting how to overthrow throw God like Satan in paradise lost?" You know, are you going to be wanting to do a varies? Of course not. It's your gof that makes you want to do it. What the Garas refers to is the Isa the yeast in the dough. That's what makes us want to go out and do uh to do bad things. And so uh uh once you don't have your body, of course, your pure soul is not going to want to do anything evil. So it's only because you're stuck here. I've told this story before, but you know when the G sedic of Vna was being burnt at the stake, the executioner said, "I'm burning you in this world, but I guess you'll burn me in the next world." And he says to him, "You know, I grew up as a nobleman. When you're a nobleman, there aren't too many noble children to play with." So, I played with the peasant children, and one time they broke my toys. And I went to my father and I said, "You're the nobleman. Put them to death." My father looked at me and he says, 'At 21, you'll become a nobleman in your own right. If you want to kill them, then you can. He says, 'When I became 21, do you think I wanted to kill these people because as children, they broke my toys? He says, what are you burning my body? He says, my soul's going to go up to heaven and what do you think? I'm going to be troubled by petty feelings like revenge and hatred, jealousy. I'm going to be way above all those things. I'm not going to want to hurt you. So when we get up to Shmayim, of course we want to do the right thing. So a person who didn't give his wife a get when he gets up to Shmayim, he's going to he's going to have to deal with that terrible thing that he did. His soul never wanted to do that. So that's not called coercion. But if a person wants to, now here in Israel, we're not allowed to give beatings anymore. Yeah. But we can take away your passport. We can um uh freeze your accounts and the basin can put you in prison. And there are stories of people who sat in prison for 25 years and died in prison and never gave their wife again. Wow. That's an auction. That is somebody. I mean, you know, I'm stubborn, but there's a limit, you know. Remember said to me once, "Dove it out the auction. Don't don't be an auction." You know, I said, "Rebby, what do you want from me? I have a heart condition." He goes, "Okay, forget it. Do what you want. I I I get stuck sometimes, you know." And uh reminds me of one of the most clever lines in the Princess Bride where at the end after Nia Manatotoya had killed the six-fingered man who killed his father. That was his goal his whole life. Yeah. So, so uh he says to him, "What are you going to do now?" He goes, "Well, I've spent my whole life trying to get vengeance, and now I have it. doesn't leave me a lot of [Laughter] options. So, you know, an auction, you know, they they cut off your nose to spite your face. You know, it's it's a it's a sad reality. So, but there are people like that. And so, this wife says, "Why did a kuresh set of the Torah this way?" So, there are no good answers. I heard somebody once say, "Listen, um, uh, the fact that there are certain illnesses that we don't have a cure for is not the fault of the rabbis." Yeah. It's nobody's fault. You know, we don't have a cure for it yet. So, you don't say, "Well, it's a doctor's fault. Why don't they have a cure? We haven't found a cure yet." And he says, "You're right. This is a problem, but we don't have a cure for it." I contest the basic assumption that this is a uh um an epidemic. Yeah, there are definitely cases of of aa and I don't think they're as uh prevalent as people think. We hear about the high-profile ones, but very often I find that women say that they're an Auna. Why? Because they refuse to make any concessions to their husbands uh in regard to uh child support or visitation or things like that. And so he says, "Well, I'm not giving you a get until we work these things out." And then she says, "I'm an Auna." You know, I've seen cases like that. So I'm I I I know there are cases where there are rishoim who are mamish withholding a get but I don't believe it's as prevalent as uh as certain online sources would have us believe. I'd like to see somebody put it together exact number because I've seen people who claim to be Aunas and I know for when you look into the case that's not the case. The case is that they're blackmailing their husband into making concessions that they're not entitled to so that they can clear their name from being, you know, you know, a uh a person who's refusing a get. Uh I know situations where the husband wants to give the get and the wife won't accept it, you know. So let's let's keep it in proportion. It's a problem, but I don't believe it's an epidemic. Yeah. So uh so but it's a problem. Why did a coach set it up that only the man can give a get? So for years when I would answer this I could only take it so far. And people say why can only the man give a get and not the wife. So I would answer technically uh well because the man gives the kaducian and since the man gives the kaducian the man creates the marriage only the man can break the marriage by giving the get. Now, that won't last for too long because somebody will say back to me, fine. So, let them both give kaducian and let them both give and then I'm basically stuck with a kosov, you know, that's how set it up and that's why it didn't make any sense. And that was the best answer that I had for years. 35 years ago, there was an article that appeared in a woman's magazine called Marie Claire. I think that's the name. And uh it had the article was called Dial a Mistress. Now, I didn't know about this article. Full disclosure, I don't read Marie Claire. Um, I don't know how many of these Lady magazines are still around. There used to be Red Book. Uh, used to be Lady's Home Journal. You know, when my wife would get a copy of Lady's Home Journal, I would read the column, Can This Marriage Be Saved, you know, where the man gives his version and the wife gives her version and then the counselor gives their version, you know, so I would find that interesting. But, uh, for the most part, I I didn't really peruse women's magazines. Um, so I didn't know about this. How did it come up? I was in a question and answer session and someone said to me, "What about a pilg ish. And I was like, what? No one has ever asked me about the den of a pleesh. And I found out that this came about, this question. And the whole tufa, the whole period of time that people were asking me the pleish question was less than six months until this article died down. And uh so I got a copy of the article and I read through it to uh to get some insight into what was going on. Here's the background. Right? There is something in the Torah called kaducian and nuin marriage. Right? Kaducian is uh often translated as engagement. It's not the better word for it is a betroal. Uh it's a worse word for it because no one knows what a betroal is. I used to be a Treky and I remember where in a muck time Spock was like uh you know suddenly gets this drive that he has to return to Vulcan and get married you know and he says I he used some Vulcan word for his relationship more than a betroal less than a marriage that's kaducian luckily luckily Star Trek was maven to it you know makes sense because you know lemon Leonard Leonard Nemoy the Vulcan salute he got this from the basanim that's where he got that from live long and prosper prosper yeah you know live long and prosper so uh that's where it comes from anyway we have something called kaduc and nuin that's marriage we only have two other arrangements one is called znus which is called immorality yeah that's where a person has a relationship with a member of the opposite gender that is not kaducian and nuin and then there's this den called a pleesh translating to English as concubine wherein apparently a man and woman can live together they're married what we call in American law common law marriage without the benefit of marriage that's living together and that's she is called your pelgish she's not your wife she's a plegish and suddenly I got hit with this question out of left field and I had no idea what to do with it so I spoke to somebody in the field and I said I don't know how to answer I I I've given lots of shirum on marriage how wonderful marriage is and husband and wife and beam and all that kind of stuff. I I I never had a case of Adam and Eve and Sue, you know, who he sees on the weekends. I I I I had no idea how to deal with this question. So he pointed to a rash. He says, "Go to him. He'll give you a dishonest answer." I figured, okay, that's a start. So I go to him and he says, "Please." He says, "Ah, what are you bringing Pelgish for?" The Ram says it only applies only applies to kings. Iram and Jacob, right? It says Ara had a pleish. Yeah. He says, "Yeah, because they had a dinner of Malus." Yeah. I What about the pleisha? That's how you know this guy was a kosh person that he was only for and from for people like that who would have a pilleg okay that sounds great so I go back to the guy and I said why was that a dishonest answer he says to me because the ramban doesn't say that um the uh uh uh in the ra doesn't say that Rabak Mden has a 10page chuva why he feels like we should mleish bisman but uh he says I wouldn't do it unless the other gdole agreed with me and they didn't so he brings down all the macaros I went through the chuva and sure enough there are a lot of sources so the dishonest answer is the Rambam says it's only for kings or the The other dishonest answer is Rashi says a pleesh is an isha just without exuva meaning it's a regular marriage. I just didn't give her exuva. But these other sources would all seem to indicate that a ple is just a guy and a gal decide hey let's live together as if we're married and we're not. And um I was like, gosh, that's that doesn't work in with all of my shior on marriage. Yeah. How am I going to deal with this? And um I don't know that I ever came up with a really good answer as to why the Torah allowed the concept of pilagus. Yakovn was talking about a situation where a man can't divorce his wife, i.e. his wife goes crazy and he can't give her a get. So um uh so let him let him take a plegish you know as and as if wife in order for this to go on. So the reason Marie Claire, this article got written up is because apparently there were some people in Brooklyn who put together what they called the Plegish hotline wherein there would be people who for whatever reason wanted to have an extra marital relationship and these from people in Brooklyn would facilitate it. Apparently, there were older singles who were happy to be able to have some kind of a relationship. All the best guys were taken already, so I'll take one of them and I'm happy to be on the side. And they talk about different stories. So, the Marie Claire got a hold of them. And they tell a story of this one particular from couple where the wife did not really was not interested in marital relations. And so he uh found an older single who was content to be a pleesh and they set up a different part of you know made her her own apartment in the house etc. And and the wife was very happy with it because it took the pressure off of her and she was happy because now she had like somebody who was like a husband to her and I it was a terrible article. I I I I struggled to be able to come up with an approach why a kosh would do this. And during this six months period when people would ask me for plegish, I would do the best that I could. It took me a very long time to be able to come up with an approach. But during this six-month period, somebody asked me the question about Auna. And uh and suddenly I realized why this pillegish question popped up for this very small window of time. So while I was struggling with the whole pilleg issue, so someone asked me about Auna. So I went down my the only road I knew how to travel and I said um the uh um the reason only the man can give the get is because the g man gives the kaducian. So he says well then let them both give the kaducian and let them both give the get. And then the light bulb went off and I said, "Now I understand. You want to be a pilgious." Now I understand where the Torah created it. Because if you have a woman who's terrified that if I get married, maybe the guy will blackmail me and not give me a get. I'll say to the guy, listen, I know you want to get married and have kids, and that's fine, but I don't want to accept kaducian from you cuz you might turn out to be a lunatic and not give me a get. So instead, I'll be your pleesh. We'll live together. No one has to know. We'll call ourselves Mr. and Mrs. whatever you know and if it turns out that this is not working out I'll pick up my stuff and I'll leave so you just want to be polite now I understand that's why the Torah created it for somebody like you who's terrified of marriage and she looks at me horrified and says no I don't want to be a pleish I want to be an isha I said no you don't Torah defines what is the man gives the had and the man gives the get. You want a relationship where they both create it and they both end it. That's a pleish, a concubine. There's no word that makes a woman's skin crawl off of her body as much as concubine. I said, "You want to be a concubine? Concubine. Concubine. Concubine." You know, now she couldn't explain why she didn't want to be pilgious. You don't have to. There's already something. And not only that, it's an amazing thing. I bet dollars to donuts that if a woman said to a guy, "Listen, I'd like to spend my life together with you, but I don't want to be mabo kaducian. I want to live with you as a pilgesh. Why? You have more rights and pelagues than you do in marriage. You don't want a marriage because in a marriage is the possibility that the husband could blackmail you. You want to be a pelagish. And by the way, that'll open up many more options for you. And no woman was able to explain to me why she doesn't want to be led. She goes, "I want to have children." Said, "You can have children. Children born out of wedlock are not mom zim. That's in the secular world. By us, you can have children. You can write up an agreement, a financial agreement. We split everything 50/50. By the way, you'll have more financial rights that way than you do with Git, with Kaducian and Gon." I said, "I want people to know I'm married." I said, "No problem. We'll give you a certificate from the Pilagas Institute." Nobody ever reads the Kuva on the wall. We'll write it in Aramaic. We'll draw doves and flowers on it. You can have it framed, put it up on the wall. No one's going to read it and say, "One second, you're a plegish. No one has to know. It's perfect. And if it turns out that the marriage doesn't work out, pick up your stuff and go." To this day, no woman has ever explained to me why she doesn't want to be a pelagish. If she's worried about becoming an auna. So instead of taking marriage and adding in a prenup, just say to the guy, I want to be a pleish. And I'm sure it'll only increase your dating options. And the woman looks at me shocked because she doesn't know why she wants to be an Issha and not a pile. She wants to take Isshos and turn it into pilgos. She wants to turn the concept of a wife into a concubine where they both make the relationship and they end the relationship. It's great when you're pleish. If it's not working up, just pick up your stuff and leave. I don't need a get. I don't need any formalized thing. Just And if we wrote an agreement beforehand, we'll split everything financially. Works good. And by the way, the children belong to the wife and so we just take the kids and leave too. She doesn't have to give him any any uh any child support. He doesn't have to give any child support. She doesn't have to give any visitation. She could take her kids and leave if she wants to. Al so how come a woman wants to be in is and it's very strange because the average guy would be just as happy with a pelagious relationship I would say more so than marriage. Whereas a woman Davka wants marriage even though she runs the risk of an auna. So don't complain about auna. Tell everybody to become a pilgub. It's better for you. You have more rights. I believe that's why the Torah invented Pilakshas for these women who are so terrified that their husband might suddenly turn out to be a nut and now they'd have to never worry about being in a good. So I have a general principle. Why did Hashem set things up this way? Hashem is all knowing. He's very smart. I maintain that the reason it was set up this way that the man creates the kaducian and the man ends the kaducian is because a kuru understands people very well. He knows men would be very happy with a plegish and a woman would not. Why? Because I've asked this to audiences of all religious persuasions and all ages. Who wants to get married more men or women? And everyone agrees women. One person said it to me great. He said no little boy dressed up as a on purim. He doesn't dream about being a little girls dress up as a kala. That's a dream of them to be able to be a kala at a wedding to be able to be a bride. H there's a magazine called bride. There's no magazine called groom. guys aren't flipping through pictures of, you know, grooms and tuxedos. Oh, look at that cor. What do you think about that? Therefore, men have a mar mitzvah to get married. Women do not. I love that one. When people say to me, "Oh, in the Orthodox community, you know, you want the women to be uh barefoot and pregnant." I say first of all they can wear slippers. That's number one. Number two is they don't have to be pregnant. They don't have to get married. A woman who says I don't want to get married. I don't have children. It's not a problem. She's not over anything. The mitzvah of veria be fruitful and multiply were only given to men. It wasn't given to women. Granted, they have to find a woman who's willing to help them fulfill the mitzvah. But a woman who says, "I don't want to get married." There's no problem. A man who says, "I don't want to get married and have children, he's gonna have some splaining to do, Lucy, you got some splaining to do." You have a mitzvah to get married and have children. Yeah. Whether the marriage itself is a mitzvah or mitzvah, that is I'm not going to get into. Yeah. But but getting married and having children is a mitzvah for the man, not for the woman. Why? Because you don't have to command women to get married. Just like there's no mitzvah, thou shalt breathe. It goes without saying. You're going to breathe. I'm talking about breathing normal. When you go to the doctor, he goes deep breath again until you hyperventilate. You know what I mean? I'm not talking about that. But I don't have mitzvah to breathe. That goes without saying. Yeah, of course you understand that. But um but the man needs a mitzvah to get married because he might decide what do I need this for? As in fact in the secular world many men are doing that. The rate of marriage has plunged along with the birth rate because people say what do I need this for? There was a whole movement, forget about in the in the liberal movement where they feel like what do I need this for? But uh even in the conservative movement, there's there's a movement where they say the laws in America are stacked against men. A woman can file for divorce, doesn't have to give any reason, and take half of everything the man has. So, so why would I ever get married? What do I need this for? and then they could take my children away, you know, make me pay child support and then do all kinds of sticktick and not let me see my kids. I'm not going to get married and have kids. And there were people who have to fight against this. And when people say, "Why should I get married and have kids if you don't believe in God?" I can't think of any reason why. So, we have a men have a mitzvah to get married because they might very likely not um figure it out. Psychologists out there will tell you that very often um when a man wants to end a marriage, he doesn't come out and say, "I want a divorce." Women institute divorce much more than men. Men just become passive aggressive. They close down. They stop coming home. They pull out of the relationship. But they're too much of a wimp to actually say, "Okay, this marriage is not working. Let's either go for therapy or get divorced." Some do. I don't mean to generalize. Some do, but uh but as a rule, it's the woman who says, "Okay, this is not working out for me. You're clearly not committed to this relationship." And then the man says, "Well, if you feel that way, then I guess we should just end this. [Laughter] Therefore, understands that men and women are different. Let's go right out there. I was teaching in discovery once and somebody says to me, "I don't believe there's any differences between men and women." I said, "Look around the room, take a couple of minutes, and tell me if you can spot any differences." And she says, "Okay, physical differences." I say, "Okay, physical differences. You think the fact that one person the left side of their brain is more dominant and the other one the right side of the brain is more dominant doesn't affect their development. You think the fact that one is filled with testosterone and the other one with estrogen doesn't make any difference. You think that one of them can go through menstruation and pregnancy and the other one can't. You don't think that makes any difference in the development of the person's mental approach? Please, for for centuries, people have been writing about the difference between how men and women think. Of course they do. And anyone who has children knows this for a fact. You know, I don't care what they say, nature, nurture, doesn't matter. Girls think one way and guys think another way. That's just a fact. And so um and that's why when I say who wants to get married more women want to get married men don't want to so much. So we give them a mitzvah to get married and we tell them you're going to take responsibility for this marriage. You're going to make it and you're going to break it. No wimping out. You decide it doesn't work. You give the get. not the wife. And a wife who's nervous about that, by all means, become a pilleg. You got plenty of options. Plenty of guys will sign up for that because guys aren't interested in having that commitment over their head anyway. when I used to teach uh the shim so very often I would be invited from the girls side to avort I'm on the men's side and the sitting next to me with these brighteyed bushy tailed young Bali chuva you know with a hat that you know it's bigger than his head you know and he's just sitting there with a big smile and I get to speak and I say you know this is a major big move marriage it's forever I look at him and I go forever and forever and forever and sweat starts dripping down his face. Guys don't really think of that. Girls before they get engaged, they go through a lot of angst. Do I want to marry this person the rest of my life? I'm going to become pregnant. I'll move in with him. I have to go where he goes. Things, you know, I'm going to lose independence. Guys are like, "You cook? Okay, I'll live here." You know, they don't go through a lot of angst before they get married because they didn't think about it too much. Jerry Seinfeld said, "I guess you girls are wondering what we men are really thinking." Nothing. We're just walking down the street. That's how we are, you know. We don't spend a lot of time thinking through when it comes to relationships. And that's why every girl knows when a guy gets married, you have to train them on how to be in a relationship because they don't know. They're not good with commitment. I'll be happy to go into a plaguist. That'll be great. And then anytime, you know, it doesn't work out, I'll just become passive aggressive and she'll leave and I'll be like, "Oh, geez, sorry that didn't work out." So, we say, "You're going to make it and you're going to break." Now, does that create an opportunity for abuse? Of course it does. But anytime you give somebody responsibility, it has the possibility for abuse. And therefore, a guy who's driving the Amtrak train is texting and doesn't pay attention and the train derails. Or the guy driving the Staten Island ferry was high and he crashes into the pier because we gave him responsibility. Or you have a cop who decides to become corrupt or a judge who becomes corrupt. Anytime you give somebody responsibility, they can abuse that responsibility. The only way to avoid that is anarchy. Nobody's put in charge of anything. Everybody's completely on their own. There's no cops. There's no judges. There's no army, there's no politicians, there's no anything because anytime there's a position where someone has responsibility, they can become abusive, dentist is having a bad day or he doesn't like you and he and he and he causes you more pain than is necessary. I stress than is necessary because every dentist causes you pain. It's part of the profession you know right some of them do it more than is necessary you know so therefore what don't have any dentists so yeah now that's why I say I go back to what I said at the beginning I don't I'm not talking about how many aunas there are this is the question how many marriages that begin with kaducian end with auna so the major Majority of marriages do not end in divorce and those that do the majority of those are not an auna. So we're talking about a tiny percentage. So you want to take all of kaducian and turn it into pelagious because of that fraction of a percent. That is what I call throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Kaducian and the Suin have served the Jewish people well for millennia. You don't want to get involved because you're too afraid. Then no problem. Tell the shad I'm I want pelogious. I don't want marriage. Trust me. You know how they always say the boy has a list. You'll have a list. Plenty of boys will be happy to take you on as a pelgish and not have to have the responsibility of marriage. God gives them that responsibility because he knows that men are not good at relationships. So they gave him that responsibility. So you say, "Well, take it away from them because they might abuse it." Good. Never have a bus driver or a pilot because they might abuse their responsibility. Never have a doctor or anybody else in a position of responsibility because they might abuse it. So the Torah says, "I set this condition up right." Okay. What happens if you have a bad guy? So beat him until he says yes. But at the end of the day, is it possible to abuse a system? Of course it is. And we all know stories of educators, you know, who were abusive. We all know stories. They may they make it into the press. And yet I'm going to go out on the line and say most educators have not abused their children that are in their care. Yeah. But some of them did. So let's do away with education. Let's never have any teachers because they might end up abusing their students. So what happened instead? Instead I've spoken to people about education. They're terrified. terrified. So where I would have a rebby who would put his arm around me and say you got out of that today you can't do that because you'll go to jail. When I ran NCSY an adviser would call up a kid and take him out to a ball game. Can't do that today. You'll go to jail. So everybody walks around scared. That's a better system. But where there was a yakas between a rebi and a that's gone. Mosha Shapiro on very rare occasions would give somebody a patch for saying something ridiculous. And it was it was a sign of of success of you could get a patch out of him because most people he would just give him the look. It wasn't worth his time. You had to be close to him to have him give you that little patch. He didn't slap. He didn't beat you. He gave you a patch. Today he'd go to jail. Yeah. So, okay. So, we're so terrified. No problem. I have an easy solution. I just solved the Auna problem. Any woman who's worried that you might be marrying a nut, first of all, I would say I don't know why you're getting married. But assuming you even have a say to the I'd rather be a but the system was set up by because he understands that men and women are different and in order to be able to create the institution called marriage. You're afraid of marriage become a pelgish but don't destroy marriage in your so I say I'll take marriage and most of them both of them make the relationship and both of them break it. We already have an option that's called a pleesh. Don't turn marriage into pilogious because you're worried about that fraction of a percent that become aas. Is it a problem? Yes. Should we bring all pressure to bear? Yes. Financial, communal, whatever we can do to pressure these people. But don't destroy the entire institution of marriage because of a few bad eggs. That's my opinion on the subject and that's how I approach it. And that brings us to the question and answer portion of our program. We do not have a sponsor for the question and answer uh this week. Uh you have that option. People who find the uh the amount of sponsoring a whole uh episode but would like to do something has have that option by anonymous. Every empire falls. How much longer will the USA last? And do you think it will happen in our lifetime? I forgot who said it first. I've heard it quoted many times. When we talk about the fall of all the great empires, so people ask, "What about America?" The answer I heard is when it comes to America, it's like a fellow who fell off the Empire State Building and after 40 floors, he says, "Well, so far so good." Predicting the downfall of America, you have to understand most of these empires lasted a very long time. America is um pushing 300 years. Yeah, they're not there yet. It's more like 250. It's only 250 years. In historical terms, that's not a lot. So, it's very, very young in terms of empire. You know, when you look up the history of France and you're going back to Gaul in the time of the um Roman Empire, you're going about the Holy Roman Empire. You know, you talk about England, there was a whole history there before the Norman invasion in 1066. You're going back almost a thousand years. You know, talk about America, you know, ancient times, uh, the the French and Indian War in the 1700s, you you're dealing with a completely different time frame. But I would like to say uh two other things in this regard. One is there has never been an empire like the United States in the history of the world for a few reasons. One is um even though it's been chipped away particularly in the last administration uh it was built on the concept of freedom. We don't force religion on anybody. We don't stop people from having the opportunity to speak. We give people freedom. That really has never happened before in history. Um you'll hear the expression state-run media. The only state-run media we have is PBS and uh hopefully the Trump administration will get rid of that. But otherwise, everyone can say whatever they want. the Biden administration tried to like establish from 1984 the Ministry of Truth where we decide what the truth is and we silence everybody else and they did all this kind of uhtick to stop free speech but hopefully we're coming back from that. Um and so uh so people should be able to have that opportunity that never existed. The other thing is tremendous amount of um I think it was Lord Asquith. I really should look it up because I've been quoting it for so many years and I don't know why I still think it was Lord as but once said Britain has neither um allies nor enemies. We only have national interest. Whatever serves the national interest is what we do. That's it. So um um America is not that way. America will help people just because it was built on and I heard this bashame one of the of three generations ago. There's never been an empire that existed where they'll just go and help people just because when it has nothing to do with us and we're not involved. Yeah. With no national interest just because we care about people. So that's another important thing. Um, so uh, so it's hard to tell. I heard and I didn't see it inside, but I heard that said that the Gur said when America was founded, this is going to be the last gulus and from America, we'll go into Yumos Mashiach. So that sure sounds to me like the American enterprise is not going to fail like other empires have. There's another amazing thing about uh America that other countries have tried to copy less successfully and that is it has a constitution and they say this is the rules that we do and we make a balance of powers. So the executive has certain powers and the legislation has certain powers and the courts have certain powers and therefore the only thing the Supreme Court can do is interpret the constitution. That's it. But they can't just decide yes or no about some issue based on their own. That's the difference. When um when people in Israel are talking about judicial reform, that's because they passed a law at one point. There were 120 seats in the Knesset the parliament and there were only 40 people there and they passed the Supreme Court law which they added the reasonleness clause which means it doesn't matter if there's a law if the Supreme Court decides nah we don't think it's reasonable they can they can cancel any law the Knesset makes I mean that's a dictatorship that's fascism you know and they say oh he's attacking democracy the most anti-democratic thing in the world is the Israeli Supreme court. It's ridiculous. They could just decide whatever they want just because nah. So if Natano wants to fire one of his ministers, he goes, "No, we don't think that's reasonable. You can't fire him. It's just the craziest thing in the world." And that is just that's just evil. And but the American Supreme Court, the only power they have is to interpret the Constitution. Sometimes they do it better and sometimes they do it worse, but that that's how it was set up. there's never been uh anybody no country even afterwards who tried to set up a government that was made this way with these kind of three divisions of power. So that gives America tremendous uh staying power I think more than other ones. And uh as long as they are the leading voice of support for the Jewish people and no country has ever been historically as good to the Jewish people as America has. I believe that gives them a specialus to be able to do it. And um so uh so yeah, I I definitely don't see America's uh decline as an empire happening anytime in the near future. And that's it for this episode. If you want to find out more about the show, you can go to my website railowski.com. You can sign up for an online sher. You can sponsor an episode, please. We're out of sponsors. You can sponsor a question and answer. You can sponsor a paran five. if you can ask a question. And that's it. Until next time, I am David Olowski and this has been the Rabbi Olowski Show. It's the Rabbi Orlosski Show. Torah and Sima, ready to go. The Rabbi Orlovski Show. Knowledge and wisdom will help you grow. Lots of fun in every episode. And we don't have to rhyme. No, it's the Rabbi Orlovski show on Rabbi Orlavski.com to anytime you and more. It's the Rabbi Orski show. Torah and Sim ready to go. It's the Rabbi Orlowski show. Till next time till we meet again. The Rabbi Orlowski show. It's the Rabbi Orlowski show. It's the Rabbi Orski show.