#109: Behind the Bima - Ambassador David Friedman

behind the Beamer with you for spending some time I'm such a fan I'm so grateful for all that you've done and continue to do and I'm grateful to consider you a friend that we've been privileged to develop this relationship as you like all the other wise people in America are making their way down south to Florida we're so glad and grateful to have you in Florida and grateful that you've agreed to go behind the with us today thank you Rabbi Goldberg you are you are indeed a friend and it's a pleasure to be with you and uh uh I've done this before but let me one more time congratulate you on the extraordinary Community you've built here in the Boca Raton Florida thank you thank you I'm really honored so I want to I want to jump right out of the gate there's so much to talk about and and our audience and the world has so much access to the many interviews you've had in the illustrious position that you served I want to try to talk about some of the the current events as well and and how you see them um but before we do I'm curious what did you always believe about Israel and the Middle East and the U.S Israel relationship from the outside that when you became an Insider with a front row seat you realized how little we know we sit around Shabbos tables and we pontificate and we have all of our positions and approaches and opinions and we think that we're well informed and educated on Israel when you went from an outsider to an Insider was there a lot that you had believed was true that you learned wasn't or did you see it from another perspective that gave you a different paradigm well you know um it wasn't um it wasn't uh dramatically different you know meaning the the assumptions that I've made the things that I that I thought I knew that I thought were correct the general positions that I had in that uh uh and that and that I that drove my uh you know my My Views and my pre-ambassadorial you know work the op-eds I wrote all those things most of that was was was was accurate I mean you know I you know people should feel relatively comfortable that they that they generally speaking I think understand the US Israel relationship here's the difference the difference is that if you are um if you're sitting around you know a kid ishron Shoppers and talking about Israel or if you're uh if you're a pundit or I would say you know even if you're even if you're a Jewish leader uh in the United States uh like you are um there is a margin of error you know you you have the ability to be wrong you can you can express your views and you can uh you can provide advice and guidance and you know you can say this is the way I think things should be um it's a consequence free environment right nobody's really taking any taking any of it was taking any of our uh views uh no one was acting upon our views when you are in a position of leadership uh this is true about my job it's true I think of almost almost any position you take of leadership in any government um you know people's lives are on the line you know you you don't have that margin of error what you do actually matters you can affect uh dramatically uh the quality of people's lives the uh the very existence of people's lives and so um you have to be more careful you have to be more thoughtful you have to be less uh instinctive and more more rational and you have to always consider the fact that there are lots of people that are depending upon you to get it right and so I think that really comes to play most often uh in the context of of National Security uh again true in America true in Israel I'm sure true else who are in the world um that's the one area that really doesn't get fully explicated uh in in the in the news and so uh you know when I when I came into office and I got a high level security clearance I had the highest you know level of security clearance with regards to Israel and the Middle East um yeah I learned a lot I mean like a lot that I didn't know understood a lot of things and you know was in a much better position to analyze risks in a much better position to to be a little bit careful and more careful about what I had to say because you know it could create uh there were consequences that didn't exist in the private sector that I think is the primary difference so do you think that for the the average pro-israel Advocate Jewish or non-jewish who feels confident in their convictions feel very strong and and many of those convictions we should be confident and Unapologetic in what we believe to be true in terms of our rights to the land and so on and so forth but do you think that there's room for more humility in general given that we're not on that side of the desk that has to make the decisions that have those consequences should we assume that a prime minister a president an ambassador sir knows things we don't know so when they act or don't act in a way that disappoints us maybe with a little more humility there's something we don't know I'm a big fan of humility not just for people um who are not involved in government for people who are as well I think there's nowhere near enough humility expressed by any of us myself included I I actually try to work on that um uh even when we think we know everything we still don't know everything and even if we know everything we're not necessarily processing the information correctly and coming out with this with the right decisions you know we could all be looking at the same set of data and still come up with very different you know views as to how to uh how to act upon that data so yeah like we all we all need more humility I think when we look at a prime minister or a a president and um and and we want him to do something and they don't they disappoint us um I think that you know we should um we should give them to some extent the benefit of the doubt if we think if there's a reasonable basis to conclude that there's some you know missing link that we're not aware of uh I would say though you know generally speaking when I've been disappointed in political leaders um it hasn't been because um of that it's more been because of you know the kind of political political wins that blew in a direction that I wasn't you know I wasn't in favor of but sure but there's no question that in a position of leadership especially let's say the prime minister of Israel which is an extraordinarily challenging and difficult job on its best day um we ought to um we ought to give them they certainly are entitled to some benefit of the doubt to a certain extent I guess it really segues to the next question I don't know if you consider the crowning achievement of your tenure the the moving of the embassy Abraham Accords there's so many to choose from that that significantly impact the Jewish Destiny the U.S Israel Destiny forever and again for which we are we are so grateful but part of what brought about that change and you tell the story so compellingly you can put the book down I love Sledgehammer that when you were in the Oval Office and the considerations and some of the lobbying and the Strategic thinking about how you were going to get the president to agree to move the embassy part of it was not given the benefit of the doubt and not not buying into what has been said for so long about what would happen if we moved the embassy in the Middle East it'll erupt and on fire so you know sometimes it's the humility to say maybe there's something we don't know and other times stop telling me the things I don't know do what we do know because uh we believe with conviction that it will have a different result and and Israel and and those who love Israel are so much better off for it because of you and your leadership in that area so I guess it's it's knowing sort of on that when when to push and when not to push because when to believe what experts are telling us all along and and when not to so where did that conviction come from in you how did you know that given the amount of pressure there was that you describe and and that we all know against moving the embassy this Potential Threat or now in retrospect uh sort of uh made up threat that the Middle East would be lit on fire and never could be turned back how did you know it wouldn't and were you afraid that what if that prediction were right well the first thing is I I didn't know uh it wouldn't um no one could no one could prove a negative with uh that level of certainty it's a huge world right I mean uh uh you know we were looking at a world that where there were potential hot spots from the United States to Africa to Asia to Europe I mean all it takes is you know one crazy person with a you know amount of cocktails we don't get into a crowded area and you have a disaster so nobody really you know I didn't know with certainty that there wouldn't be uh greater greater violence I think we were blessed I mean I mean one of my points is you know I I don't I don't think I'm smarter than anybody I think I'm luckier than a lot of people and I think I'm a lot more blessed than I probably deserve to be and I think like that for me like I I and I you know you touched on this earlier I do think moving to the Embassy was the most important thing we did vis-a-vis Israel and I'll and I'll tell you why in a second but but the point of it though was um uh you could never uh not not in 2017 not in 2027 not you could never prove that taking some that taking a controversial action would not result in um in some violence somewhere and and I'll tell you the truth you know it had their God forbidden been real violence especially against Americans um as a result of this my tenure as Ambassador might have been very short you know I owned this you know I pushed this harder than anybody I everybody knows that I was the one really driving this and I could have been wrong you know and I and if I was and you know uh God forbid lives are lost and in God forbid American lives are lost I mean I probably would have been fired I mean maybe justifiably so so um there's a lot of blessings here a lot of blessings here that I that I don't take for granted the the moving in the embassy however um was the right decision I mean I mean sometimes you do the right thing and it just doesn't work out right in a politics you bear the consequences I always knew it was the right decision and we did a lot of work to try to identify threats and we didn't see any threats again necessarily not an insurance policy but moving the embassy I think was was so significant in sending a signal to the world that the United States uh was going to stand uh unapologetically unequivocally with the state of Israel it was going to fulfill the will of the American people that had been you know on the book since 1995 with the Jerusalem Embassy act and it wasn't going to be um be threatened or um you know or are somehow intimidated by Rogue actors and that this was the first act that the president took in in that direction and I think everybody you know stood up and took notice they said you know what the United States is finally standing with Israel in a way that reflects the will of the American people in a way that frankly reflects a commitment that you know had been made by many presidents and not been uh observed so you know the president keeps his promises America is not afraid and America stands with Israel all of those messages I think resonated throughout the world and in areas that have nothing to do with Israel and I think in terms of you know the ultimate uh you know uh kind of punchline of our of our four years in office the Abraham Accords I don't think the Abraham Accords would have happened if we hadn't started off with that Declaration of uh of extraordinary uh unequivocal friendship with Israel because it made Israel a much more attractive partner with respect to the moderate Gulf States are you frustrated by the what seems to be the um the stalling of the Abraham Accords the progress that could have still been made or still can be made um the path or trajectory was on that feels is a little bit stunted maybe legitimately there's a lot of other distractions and things going on the world maybe some of it there's not the same will does that frustrate you watching a little bit I think I think the um I think there is still progress It's in smaller steps less dramatic steps and um um I I think it is marching forward in terms of additional countries um you have to look at the Abraham Accords like this every Abraham Accord agreement is different you have to look at it as a triangle I I've given this example before Israel and a Muslim Nation at the base of the triangle and America at the Apex in America at the Apex is projecting its its strength and its influence and its ability to kind of uh encourage and um and induce um both countries to get together the countries that don't know each other to get closer together uh in order for that to happen America's got to be strong and it's got to be particularly strong you know in the Middle East and projecting its strength especially to the moderate Sunni Nations now uh an American domestic I'm sorry an American foreign policy that that continuously seeks to um uh to cultivate a relationship with Iran is is just the wrong policy to project any kind of trust with the uh moderate Sunni Nations so it's that uh it's it's the weakness generally of America abroad it's you know it's Afghanistan it's Russia it's China it's all the the combination of I think foreign policy blenders that make it much more difficult for America to really stand in a meaningful way with Israel and another um in a gulf Nation but I think it will come I mean I I think we're you know we are on a Glide path to that um to better outcomes I just think we need to fix our foreign policy I just uh read an up I read a review today of um four members of the administrative Administration who wrote books following and uh all of them um none of them had been in politics beforehand in fact it credited yours was the most well written and the most compelling and the best um but that was a common denominator and theme so what do you think in your own background be it in your childhood be it in in a rabbinic home we've spoken a lot about Jewish communal leadership and responsibility and sacrifice for that be it you've always been fighting for Israel in your career in your in your legal career in your business career what do you think are the key components that positioned you for the success you had as an ambassador number one might be that you had never been in politics that's the conclusion one might reach from that review and and in general in analyzing the the administration and its accomplishments the disruptive nature of people who had not been in politics that might be the most important but if there are other factors that you can credit with your success in being able to negotiate and move long things that had been his stalemate bringing about realities that people only dreamed of and said couldn't happen and being such an advocate and spokesperson that made us swell with pride that someone's saying it what prepared you for that were there people or role models with their experiences in your career or your personal life what do you think positioned you for the most success well thank you for that question that was that was that was one of the nicest questions anyone said for uh asked me um first of all let me say you know you know I think I know the article you're talking about in in the you know uh there was an argument that there was a benefit to not being in government and not being you know a diplomat you know I'm never one who thinks that ignorance is an asset you know so I don't think not knowing something is is ever good I try to know everything um but but the difference is that you know when when we came into office I was speaking to myself I don't I don't want to speak for others but um I had a lot of life experience you know I had practice law for over 30 years I had a pretty good ability to negotiate and to read people and to understand what people cared about and where deals could be made where they couldn't be made I also uh I think most importantly like I'm uh as as you mentioned I I am the son of one of them my own personal feeling one of the greatest rabbis I've ever met you know my father was an outstanding you know committed Rabbi he was very talented very good auditor very bright uh and probably could have made you know I'm probably you probably hear this from your kids as well it could have made a lot more money doing something else you know and he chose this because of his uh you know his commitment to the Jewish people and his love for the state of Israel and that was you know that was clearly something that was installed in me instilled in me for many years from the very beginning I think I tell a story that you know when I was nine years old you know I saw my parents crying I thought something was wrong and it turns out they were crying it was the fourth day of the uh Six Day War in Jerusalem was unified Rabbi Goran was blowing the chauffeur and they were just bullying you know and I thought something was wrong but then I came to realize it but that's that's the house I grew up in you know my father uh this is something maybe you'll try one day I don't know it's it's kind of risky on uh on Yom Kippur uh 1973 my father heard as the services came to an end he heard that Israel was at War and that it it was actually not doing very well that day uh there were tanks that were already you know had breached to go on high so we're heading into the canary and uh and and he was and he got a call that uh that they should um um they need to raise money you know there was it was a real shortage of arms and weapons and food and everything else so he locked the shul with 2500 people inside you know 2500 you know very hungry people you know and he said we're not leaving here until we raise a certain amount of money and he raised the money and you know people were saying to him you know can we do this is it illegal you know you're a fire hazard we're hungry get us out of here he didn't care because he stood for something that he cared more about and you know he taught me the importance of uh of having faith of believing in principles and acting on principles and you know to me I took this job with the view that I would come in and I would act on principle and if I could continue to act on principle and do things that I thought were was something my father would be proud of he had passed away before I took the job but my father would be proud of what I was doing I would keep the job and if I was ever asked to do anything that that I thought my father would would uh would be disappointed in me if I did it uh that would be the day that I would either not explain why or if I had no choice that would resign so I never took this job you know just to put an ambassador title in front of me it was I things I wanted to accomplish and I and I was blessed with the uh ability to do that I was given a tremendous amount of Runway by the president and by the and by secretary Pompeo later on by vice president Pence by Jared Kushner I mean they really let me run with the ball and um and I was blessed with the ability to accomplish a lot but if there came a point when uh when I couldn't do that or I'd have to do something that I thought was contrary to my principles and my beliefs I was absolutely committed that I would walk out the door with my head up high rather than you know kind of play along in a in in a political environment that I wasn't comfortable with was that a condition of your accepting the ambassadorship that you wouldn't just be a figurehead photo ops showing up at events but that you'd actually be part of shaping policy and bring you about policy was that was that something that you had thought about at the beginning or after you already accepted and went through the process did you did you realize I'm in a position that I could actually make a difference here so the president said to me very early on because you know he was appointing ambassadors uh in other locations as well that was the first the point that in the first confirmed he said to me look this is not a this is not a party job you know I don't want to hear about you throwing um you know events and and wearing uh wearing uh you know a tuxedo and wearing and you know and uh you know hosting people and hosting celebrities this is a working job if you're prepared to work take the job if not don't take it and I I you know I had spoken to him I haven't had spoken to him many times about Israel and various related issues I was confident that um that there would be an alignment of views and interests both with the president and in in in Jared in those days I would I was interfacing with a lot as well I thought we had an you know an alignment of Interest so I never really thought that that day would come when uh you know when I would have to take a difficult stand but um and it didn't come but I but I you know I so I didn't I didn't raise it with the president but um but I was I always had that in my mind going back to your father um is it only with the with hindsight that you're able to look with retrospect and feel that pride of your father and growing up in that home and realize it's his influence on you or even when you were young the child of a rabbi maybe I'm asking for a friend when you were young the child of a rabbi were you more resentful being in the spotlight how did you feel that day that he locked the doors you must have been among the hungry ones who are like what are you doing we're all hungry and they're going to kill you and you're crazy and they're going to make fun of me tomorrow in school for this did you only appreciate it later in life or even when you were young growing up as the child what would your message be to the children of a rabbi about the role they're in well you know there's you know there were three of us growing up and um I think my sister and brother my older I was the youngest my older sister and brother probably um you know wanted to run away from the spotlight uh rather than embrace it they certainly weren't uh you know um you know didn't enjoy it as much as I did I I loved it I mean I loved um uh seeing my father you know he you know it was a large congregation probably about the same size as yours and you get up uh on Siobhan morning and you know whatever was on his mind you know he got it off his mind you know he got to uh speak to people and uh and and he had great influence and I think as you probably you know know probably better than me great rabbis are not necessarily great speakers you're a great speaker but that's not really what makes a great Rabbi what makes a great Rabbi is are the relationships he forms with each one of his congregants you know especially when they you know when they really need someone to help them through a difficult time and um you know that I saw that in my father more than anything that he was you know deeply committed to people and how much he changed their lives how many people were you know were were you know remember this is this is a generation ago so a lot of these people are uh Holocaust Survivors or or children of Holocaust Survivors a lot of them are broken a lot of them are first generation Americans struggling to find a way they want to be good Americans they want to be good Jews they don't necessarily know how to reconcile those conflicts and um and and the impact he had on people I thought was profound much greater impact than you know than I've had on anybody um and most people have on anybody so I would say for the children of rabbis um if if your father is a rabbi um uh watch him try to understand better what he does I mean give him a break because he's doing God's work literally and figuratively and um and understands just how much people need now more than ever now more than ever people really need faith and they need spirituality and they need purpose and meaning in life at a time when we've become so digitized and uh and impersonal they really need someone to help them kind of uh restore their Humanity sometimes so that's a really important job I don't think there's a more important job in the world uh certainly not in the Jewish world than being a rabbi and um uh your kids whether they appreciate it now I suspect they probably already appreciated now but you know I have no doubt the the when they get older they'll be like me and they'll realize they were that they grew up in the presence of greatness I hope so I hope so I can only I can only pray so you grew up the son of a prominent Rabbi and you know what it was like to be a public person in fact one of my daughters was once a camp um ncsy program in Israel for the summer she was on a panel and they asked her what's the best part and the worst part about being a rabbi's daughter she thought to herself she gave a great answer she said the best part is that I know everyone the worst part is that everyone knows me so when you're a rabbi's child everybody knows you and you experienced that as a rabbi's child when you took the position as Ambassador you'd already been a a public person and you'd already been a leader in the Jewish Community but ambassadorship takes it to a whole new level regularly on the news and in newspapers and the media and so on not all for the good how did that impact your family your children was everyone bought in before you even did it did was it what they expected it to be better or worse were their Privileges and memories that they're so grateful for are the things that that they wish maybe you had considered differently so my kids were were most of them were older you know most of them were settled and established and they were living in Jewish communities and pro-israel communities um and they had kids and you know those are the communities where uh you know there was very little negative uh feedback on what I was doing um you know my I had I think one of my my fourth child was not yet married she is now in our youngest is you know we we took a gap after four kids and so our fifth is a lot younger so she's still in she's still in college now um so maybe she was kind of the the least interested in in in in the public aspect of it but um they were great I couldn't have done it without their support I certainly could have done it without my wife's support you you know her you know how how incredibly supportive she's been of me in our family um so uh it was an absolutely an entirely new level of uh of being in the public eye uh it's mostly good again you know this is this is a very narrow space I mean you're very very public but only within a very narrow part of the world of people that Focus really on the US's real relationship most people that focus on it are in favor of it so um you know uh every now and then um yeah it gets ugly uh I'm not a big fan of of the quality of the media writ large I don't think they do a really good job I'll tell you so one time like the day before the embassy opened the day before literally May 13th of 2018 a bigger article appears that I am personally funding a Jewish terrorist organization and I had no idea what this was about and it turns out that there's some organization that I that I'm associated with that has a name in Israel that sounds like another organization which maybe arguably maybe involved in Jewish violence um never got a call nobody asked me you know before they published the article they were trying to get something in just before the embassy opening to kind of um uh slow slow it down to kind of put a little cast a spell on it um and uh you know I mean those types of things you know you never you never you can never undo that you can never unring that Bell you know and unfortunately that's the power of the media you know they put something in a headline and if they have to retract it they'll retract it at the bottom of page 11 you know and and it's um but it's just it's just part of it's just part of the part of a day's work and uh I did get better over time with uh with the media over you know it got you know you just have to it's an acquired skill you learn it you learn what to be careful about and uh any and you you keep plugging forward did you develop thicker skin and what's it like reading the reviews of your book even now that you're out of office is it the type of thing that you've learned through public life to as long as you can be happy your family's happy with you you feel comfortable that God's happy with you or does it still hurt when you read something that stings yeah I'm human so you know if I read something that's you know deeply uh untrue and uh insulting I I suppose I would I would react to it doesn't happen that often but you hit the nail on the head like my kids have to love me and respect me my wife has to love me and respect me I don't mean that they have to but to me it's important that that that's my that's my litmus test of being successful that my kids love and respect me wife loves and respected my grandchild and God willing will one day numb me well enough to respect me I think they already love me and um and then you know everything else is kind of uh uh you know uh gravy you know you get some more people to like and respect you that's great but uh you know it doesn't matter what you do for a living you know like I mean a bachelor can be a president I could be a king I could be a rabbi the people you have the greatest influence uh on are your children and there's nothing and there's nothing that comes even close you know everybody else will read an article I write I listen to a speech I give they'll like it they won't they'll applaud they'll go home they'll do something else they'll forget about it you know two hours later the influence you have on your children is profound and it stays with them their entire lives and you have the ability to create happy self-confidence successful kids or God forbid to screw them up where they're in therapy for 40 years I mean that's what parents can do and so um at the end of the day that's my that's my priority one of the things watching as you became Ambassador um and and did the incredible work that you did was cheering on not only that you stood for and fought for the things that so many of us feel connected with and believe but that you're one of us you know not only that you're Jewish but you're an orthodox Jew from the fight there's so much relatable so much that we can connect so much that's visible about you um I remember in the first year um the vice president actually had I think it was the first yomato celebration at the White House and I was privileged to be there with several of my colleagues rabbis and the the few times we've been there we linger as long as possible to soak up every moment of being in in such a place as long as we can and you walked by I didn't know you then or we didn't personally I didn't personally have the privilege of knowing you then you walk by you turn to three rabbis who are clearly lingering and you said guys what are you waiting for the Kiddush and I'll never forget that line because it just again showed what what an Insider how Hamish you are so how did that impact you as Ambassador you you were not only many of the U.S ambassadors to Israel are Jewish and they have to navigate a state department and other Arenas that can be hostile to Jews but you were a visibly observant Jew you were a practicing Orthodox Jew did that create friction was there pushback from State Department from others that you were practicing diplomacy with was the fact that you're visibly and everyone knows you to be an observant Jew did that make it even more complicated than just by just being Jewish they made it complicated but you know um my pride in being Jewish is boundless I mean I it's so much a part of me being proud to be a Jew you know we're we're the oldest people on Earth we're the only people you know in the world that can go and pray in the same language the same liturgy at the same place you know that we did 2000 years ago nobody else can do that and we've survived everything and we've overcome everything and we've you know and we've uh you know we were in Exile and prayed for you know countless centuries to return to Jerusalem and we did and we did it in our lifetime and we're the lucky ones who are able to be alive during this time when our great grandparents couldn't have imagined it and some of our grandparents couldn't have imagined it and so uh that that fills me with pride every day and if it comes across to people in the state department you know that's their problem not mine but you know uh you know as I say in my book I mean there were times when I got I get a call from uh relatively senior person in the state department and the message was don't be so Jewish and I said uh what you know they said don't be so Jewish and I I just was stunned and I said you know uh I can't imagine you know there are some you know some Italians working in the European you know desk or some African-Americans working on the African desk you tell them not to be so Italian or not to be so African-American I had this conversation you know where I have a movie coming out with Mike Pompeo sometime in 2023. it's called Uh Route 60 the biblical highway it's all about coffee this this road that's the spine of biblical Israel from Nazareth down to beersheva but I said to them you know Mike you and I are I would say equally pro-israel um you know and I get accused all the time of dual loyalty and you never do and why am I so lucky that you know as a Jew I'm accused of of being too pro-israel but you know you're not a Jew and no one ever gives it a second thought that maybe you have dual loyalty I mean it's it's it's amazing when you think about it I mean the non-jewish pro-israel community um receives almost no criticism for other you know from from that perspective but the Jews do it's very unfair but um as I say you know so what I'm gonna be who I am it's the only person I know how to be and I am as I said boundlessly proud of uh of being a Jew is that the advice you'd give you know we'll get to in a moment the rise of anti-Semitism today so there are for the first time in my lifetime I have friends who are considering whether they should be wearing their yamaka to work whether they should be so visibly Jewish as you said at work I don't know if you saw the clip of the I think Israeli doctor interviewed on French TV where the the uh the French city personality they said why are you wearing the yamaka why do you have to be so religious why do you look so religious so what would your message be to particularly young people just starting their career right now who wear a yamaka or are visibly uh Orthodox or observant um whether they can succeed in the outside world in the workplace should they consider taking the Amico off should they consider hiding their religious practice and belief in order not to elicit the the focus and God forbid anti-Semitism or with strength and with pride in who we are and what we do and the way you said it's the other person's problem what would your message be to that them well we have to be strong and proud of who we are um you know it it depends how bad it is and I mean I'm not gonna I wouldn't tell somebody to put on a keepa if they're walking through a neighborhood where there's a high probability that they're going to get hurt you know I don't want anybody getting hurt and uh and and in those communities um what we have to do is is demand that there be a a real show of force a real show of police force against the anti-semitic world so I've been pushing for for months and nobody's I don't think anybody's taken this up yet but I think for example in places like New York and others where other areas where there is where where there are Jews who look like juice you know visibly Jewish people I think the police force needs to have an undercover unit where people of the police dress as classical dresses um so that um number one they'll do a better job of cashing these vicious criminals and number two the criminals will will think twice because they may not know whether they're attacking a Jew or attacking a cop but you know um so like I I think we have to be um we have to be incredibly strong uh on our right to be Jewish anywhere we want to be and you know the the the the the the irony is is that one of the safest place to be Jewish now is in places like Dubai and Abu Dhabi you know in in Manama you know and even Morocco right I mean I mean it's it's it's really odd I mean it's safer to I definitely feel safer and Abu Dhabi than I do in most parts of Europe uh and probably some parts of America um we have to fight back I don't I I don't think we're fighting back as hard as strong as we can you know I just looked at um I don't know if you noticed you know so there was a there was a group assembled yesterday uh in Washington it was a group to combat anti-semitism and they put out a statement and I just read the statement before you know half an hour before you and I started I saw your Tweet yeah and it's all about anti-Semitism but you know you know you know it's the headline is about anti-Semitism the the tagline is about anti-semitism but in the middle you know they they felt the need to condemn anti-Semitism along with islamophobia and other related forms of bias I think that we deserve our own you know can we get one day you know where it's just about us I mean why I mean I'm not I'm not in favor of islamophobia I think it's terrible I think all forms of racism are terrible but you know what um there are plenty of events that that combat you know racism with regard to other ethnic minorities and Jews don't try to insinuate themselves into those discussions anti-Semitism right now is is an epidemic and it's it's higher than it's been maybe in 50 years and we're entitled to a a a a discussion and in an effort that's uniquely focused on the Jewish people and we don't need to dilute it with other uh with other forms of hatred as bad as they are I I wonder I feel strongly about this I don't have a conclusion but I feel strongly that we should be thinking about that we're reacting to this this wave and hopefully it's only a wave but likely more than that of anti-Semitism by sort of reverting back to our normal reactions and there are Legacy organizations that have been fighting anti-Semitism and they've done wonderful work and they're wonderful I'm not going to say a negative word about them but whatever investment we're making in them is there's a poor return because anti-Semitism is at an enormous high so something about that that way of that methodology and strategic thinking is not working so is there a group internally before we sort of react right away when Kanye react right away when uh other other virulent anti-semites say tweet post do things and we you know we like to speak truth to power we like to shine the spotlight and call them out we let maybe that's not intelligent maybe that's not so right maybe in today's world of media social media of a viral world of trolls of cancel culture maybe there's a different strategy so are we bringing a sense of nuance to this conversation are we thinking strategically that the old ways and Legacy methods they won't work today they're not working today clearly they're not working today so does every person who says or does something anti-semitic are we serving our greater goal by calling it out or maybe our emphasis and focus should be our strength and our pride and our right the the Israeli I know prime minister Netanyahu at APAC many years ago made the point that the response to BDS is to make sure that Israel is turning out technology that nobody would ever boycott the the stronger and the prouder that we are then then it would be against someone's own interests so maybe the focus should be on on the Jewish people and how we live and our pride and and so on and I think that we need to have a major conversation around this instead of just instinctively going back to the old ways that we've done all along well I agree with you and and look you know in in a uh you know in the business world where I live if uh if a uh if the CEO of a company came to me and said um you know I'm losing money um our product isn't selling um I want you to invest in me I I look for a new CEO I certainly look for maybe invest someplace else uh it seems that you know we have all these uh entities that are that are pushing and fundraising because we have high semitism but their job was to keep it from happening in the first place so you know the these are not successful organizations and look I I have a sort of a maybe it's overly simplistic but um there are there are other minorities where any racial insinuation against them is completely um unacceptable properly so all right I mean you know there are words you cannot say um on TV in sports you lose your job your careers are over properly so we don't have that as the Jewish people we have not established red lines for ourselves and say you cannot um you cannot um accuse us of dual loyalty you cannot accuse us of manipulating the banks or the media you cannot say that we you know you cannot pull out the protocols of the Elders of design and there have to be consequences you know real consequences the same as others you know who violate those red lines in the context of other uh minorities we haven't done that um we're not good at it we're very you know we're very tolerant people very accepting you know we we're willing to listen to to jokes and to uh and to joke about ourselves um we we just don't we just have not created the boundaries that I think are necessary that's number one number two um we don't get out and we don't get out onto the street we just don't do it you know there there there's you know um I I think there was the some attempt uh maybe a year and a half ago I think less a year ago this past summer to Something in Washington against anti-Semitism nobody showed up um you know a Jewish lives matter um March would not be well attended unless the only way to get well attended would be if you called all the Yeshiva principles and you sent them on buses then you could get a big crowd but you know we we just sort of don't you know we sort of think if we ignore it it's going to go away and it's not you know we're doing fine and you know we've got got to pay Yeshiva tuition so we gotta you know have our jobs and we don't want to make waves it's it's a mistake I think it's a mistake I mean I think Israel is um is thankfully you know I mean it's a it's a whole different world in Israel I mean I think that this is this is you know a question about the future of the diaspora or maybe is there a future you know for the diaspora there's a future in Israel Israel is not an issue Israel has you know seven million Jews and everybody there identifies as Jewish no matter you know whatever however they might observe they're all consider themselves Jewish it's a Jewish State it's a strong State it's got a great economy it's got a military you know it's the home of it's our Biblical Homeland um they're not at risk it's the diaspora that's at risk I mean the Jewish Community America hasn't grown it's shrunk everywhere else in the world and uh and and do we want to fight for you know our American diaspora I think we have to fight I think if we don't fight we're going to lose it isn't there an enormous complicating Factor here that's different though than the other examples of bias and racism which is that part of the anti-semitic Trope is that we control the media and therefore we can shut down people who say things we don't like so that's part of the Nuance that I'm wondering whether we need to think about when we make those red lines which I agree 100 with you that we should have those red lines and ask others to hold people accountable for it the problem is if people get canceled because they cross the line then does that to a certain extent not just contribute to the the Trope that you see the Jews are very sensitive someone said something they don't like they got me canceled they got my career over they got me uh thrown out thrown off TV or whatever the case may be and isn't that a complicating Factor here it's um it's it's a complicating Factor but it's not one that would cause me to reconsider the approach I mean look we just have to be strong and Unapologetic about who we are and if somebody that works for us if if we happen to you know own a uh you know a media Outlet which we really don't the Jews don't really have that many but if we did and uh and someone working for us said something that we thought was unacceptable I I I wouldn't hesitate to act because of because somebody would call me names I mean I just think we have to kind of move forward with our heads up high and and not be so concerned about what people think I mean again and I I mean I've said this in Israel a lot but I think it's true here people will respect us if we respect ourselves you know if we respect ourselves and say look we are here we're not going anywhere um we don't need to justify our our right to be on this Earth I mean look we could we could point to the fact that we went in disproportion a number of Nobel prizes and we've invented all kinds of cool technology and we write more books per capita than anybody else who cares I mean it's great I mean I'm proud of the Jewish people but that's not what we don't have to write you know a pulse surprise wedding book in order to be entitled to live peacefully within this country you know so um I I just think that you know we try too hard to be accepted and um I think we I think we need to instead of looking at the world around us and make sure they accept us let's make ourselves just better let's become better Jews more informed Jews understand better Jewish history understand the greatness of being of being a Jew what it means the the fact that we're living on a Continuum of 4 000 years an unbroken Continuum of Jewish scholarship and Jewish observance and she was caring for each other I mean that's going to be a worth a whole lot more than what somebody happens with some anti-semite you know thinks about me and as far as anti-semites go look we're not we're not going to change their hearts and mind the whole idea that we're going to somehow cause them to think differently about Jews I think is I mean I I wouldn't tell somebody not to try but you know we're not gonna you know we're not gonna change the hearts and minds of anti-semites they don't even they're not even going to pay attention to anything that we're you know that we're putting out I mean you know we're they're not going to go to the Museum of Tolerance they're not going to go to Hashem I mean you know these are not people who are interested in learning they they're they're people that hate so I just think we have to be tougher and smarter and uh and more internally focused on ourselves make ourselves better make ourselves smarter and make ourselves stronger we maybe also identify the influencers and opinion Shapers in those other communities because you know what scared me is Kanye writes a horrific tweet and whether he's well not well mentally the debate all revolves around him instead of realizing that within 40 minutes of writing that tweet 30 000 people liked it I'm less worried about Kanye I'm more worried about 30 000 people could press like on a sentiment like that and I wonder whether sort of the APAC model about finding the up-and-coming leadership in the general world and exposing them and educating them about Israel maybe we need to find in the pop culture culture music industry celebrity industry athlete industry who are influencers and Shapers of the masses who exposing and incentivizing them to this issue can become Advocates not only for ourselves but maybe then it would it would trickle down it might I mean that you're right I mean that is the danger of of Kanye West that he's an iconic figure with a lot of people that that like his music and they're therefore like him and that's why he's so dangerous that's why I mean he's it's not that he stumbled upon some new form of anti-Semitism that's more virulent it's just that he is very popular and it's a and it's a it's a very big big issue but um um you know again I just don't I I don't think we should I don't think we should panic I think we just we need to fight back and you know on all levels but most importantly and this is I think the most important thing we have to um get put anti-semite violent anti-semites must be in jail for long prison sentences I mean that and and we don't have the the police infrastructure uh in in the places where it's needed the most in New York and Los Angeles and Chicago and Philadelphia you know those are the last those are the best places in the world to be an anti-semite because you know there's no bail in you uh and and you get out quickly so um that's got to change I mean I think that is the single biggest you know um contributor to to the violence on the streets it's not that more people hate Jews is that more people who hate Jews are getting away with it's a great Point there's some lobbying work to be done there so you spent four years in Israel as Ambassador but I know that you had your own timeline for when you wanted to go to Israel for longer periods of time and you were exploring it I don't know if you're comfortable telling the story but uh what was your timeline from trying to begin to move to Israel for longer periods and anyone give you some advice about that area so uh yeah so yeah I know what you're referring to yeah so so about about five years before I uh before I became Ambassador um my wife and I were discussing about you know where we wanna kind of it's what we want to do when we grow up you know and I always felt that you know the only reason not to be in Israel um if you're really a strong Zionist and you really believe in the importance of Israel for the Jewish people um the only reason really was was Financial you know you can't make a living there you know and and I reached a point where that wasn't really a factor and so I started to think about it and you know our kids were younger a lot younger then and you know a lot to think about and I went and met with uh Rabbi who I've since met with many times I'm not sure I'm comfortable giving his name but uh he's a brilliant Rabbi he lives in Jerusalem and I met with him and um most of the meeting we talked about the kids which ended up being much more interesting to me than my own personal issues but at the end I said to Amina Rabbi I really want to talk to you about um about what you saw about moving to Israel he said to me dunko he said the stay in America five more years and I said to him yeah but you know in five more years I'll be uh I'll be 58 you know I'll be getting older you know I want to go and I still have some some real energy turns out I have plenty of energy now but you know but uh I said but you know maybe I should go down that he says no wait five years so what am I going to do in five years he says trust me you will have plenty to do when you get to Israel in five years and I and I and he and you know I forgot all about that um sometime around 2019 two years after I was Ambassador sitting in herzulia and I was talking to some friends and they needed some uh some help with something and I suggested that they speak to this Rabbi and all of a sudden Tammy and I look at each other and we said holy cow we forgot all about it but he was the one who said you know in 2017 I'd have something important to do in Israel so um there are some really gifted um rabbis I I think you should you should you should easily number yourself among them but um there's some really gifted rabbis out there who have great insights into the future it's an amazing story so thank you so much for your time this has been incredible I guess we'll wind down with one last question which is tell us what life's like post ambassadorship you know when you're an ambassador you are in a position of influence and power and access intelligence um policy shaping and and then you know one day that's it you go from ambassador to non-ambassador I've always wondered this I I hope to not know for a very long time what it's like to go from being the rabbi to not the rabbi from giving the speech to listening to the speech but I wonder for presidents that transition from one day having the nuclear codes and getting the intelligence briefings and being the most powerful person on Earth to being retired that next day so what on a different scale but what's that like what's life like for you post ambassadorship what's difficult I mean just to give you a sort of on a on a practical sense you know from one day to the next I am uh I'm going from a uh you know a 12 000 square foot you know Mansion you know with a staff of of a full-time staff of of seven domestic staff and another you know I was the second most heavily guarded person in the country I had a I was always traveling with a security detail of eight people and like in one day I said it's gone yo you're you're on your own go find a place to live and go you know go go try to be careful good luck so it's a um uh that in and of itself is is stunning but um all the things I cared about so much when I was Ambassador I still care about what I have found is that in this in this if you will this space of um being pro-israel uh having good having good uh relations with with with America understanding American understanding Israel understanding the leaders of both countries and having a a very strong view as to you know Israel's rights uh not just to to be there at the flourish but to but to retain all of their biblical homelands into flourish as a Jewish State and to defend itself against all threats I mean what I found is that when I left office I I was still sort of the the main person occupying that space you know I still had a lot to contribute the Israeli government they they all wanted to continue talking with me obviously I wasn't an ambassador anymore and I didn't have any official title but they they wanted some thoughts and some advice and and people leaders in America wanted the same and um so I keep busy with you know this Foundation that I started called the Friedman Center for peace through strength and I wrote a book and I'm making movies and I have a job as well you know um you know I'm also engaged in some business and so yeah I I mean I'm very happy with with you know what I'm doing and I'm keeping busy but my you know obviously is in is with the Jewish people in the state of Israel and it's support and relationship with America so um I find that I'm still able to really make a contribution you know I I really kind of especially when it when it's kind of helping Israelis really understand America better and what can be done and look I think you know there there was there was one thing that we left on the table that I'm sorry about I mean we ran out of time we would have dealt with it in the second Administration but apart from you know adding more countries to the Abraham Accords you know we left open this gig this massive issue uh for Israel you know which I tell the Israelis you know almost every country in the world can answer a very simple question you know what are your borders and you ask the Israeli public what are your borders you'll get different answers some will say it's the Jordan River some will say it's the green line some will say it's the it's the settlement blocks you know without even knowing what the settlement blocks are it's a very complicated issue and and it and it's it's something which I strongly believe you know Israel needs to decide you know For Itself by itself you know if the quartet decides or America decides or the U.N decides or you know it's no one will be happy with the outcome Israel needs to take ownership of this issue and develop a national consensus for how to resolve it I mean this this subject alone you and I could talk another hour about and maybe we will one day but but um um I sort of feel uniquely uh informed and able to help with that issue and I want to help um both America and Israel get to the right place just as a free agent I don't represent anybody but I just want to um I I think I have something to contribute to that discussion no question so will we see Ambassador Freeman back in politics Will Ambassador for women be back in the arena it depends whether you ask Ambassador Friedman or Mrs Friedman it's a it's a you'll get two different answers um it depends it depends um if if I was given this opportunity again and I thought I could continue to you know make the kinds of advances that we had made in in the first Trump Administration I'd have to really seriously consider it amazing Ambassador Freeman thank you so much for joining us this is really an amazing conversation and I'm going to take you up on that opportunity to continue because there is so much that we left on the table but thank you for all that you've done throughout your life and career and leadership in the Jewish community and particularly as Ambassador there's just there's so many things that were remain so grateful for and and sounds like The Best Is Yet To Come the biggest differences can still happen ahead of us so we can't wait to see them thank you thank you Rabbi Goldberg remember Brody what a good Pastor David Friedman I could keep listening first of all everyone wants to know right now who's that Rabbi because everyone wants to go visit him we can't disclose who that Rabbi is but let's just say that that story is not an unusual story for that Rabbi that Rabbi has a lot of stories like it and I don't know exactly what to make of that because our our Rabbi is as brilliant as great as they are are not prophets and they're certainly not Hashem himself but still don't take it too lightly these rabbis are great people have great Insight but it's a great conversation easy flowing he's such a man he's such a mentioned he's so easy to speak to and he's so he's so humble yeah he said not smarter than most luckier than most right and I also think he looks back at his his impact and he attributes so much to hashkacha to Divine Providence to God opening doors enabling things to happen but he he's responsible in his book he tells the stories of going into that Oval Office and convincing the president to make moves like moving the embassy and and others like it um I was I mentioned earlier I was at this AJC event tonight and Uh there's Big talk about adding uh the Saudis to the Abraham Accords it's a game changer the Middle East is changing the conversation is not all about conflict it's not all about security it's about high-tech and technology and trade I think she said uh the person speaking that the UAE since the Abraham Accords has done more than three billion dollars of trade with Israel and in the first half of 2022 did more than a 2021 altogether and so those numbers are only growing and it's it's in everyone's interest it's in everyone's interest to continue to stick together yeah it sounds like Ambassador Friedman is interested if there's an opportunity to get back involved because there's an opportunity it's his wife but it sounds like there could be many opportunities yeah there's a lot more to talk about on that anti-Semitism conversation I think that we need to be thinking about it in different ways and with tremendous gratitude to the organizations who historically have tackled this issue and the Legacy anti-Semitism or stopping anti-Semitism organizations but we need some new eyeballs on it and some new paradigms some new ways of thinking because it's a new world and it's a new set of enemies and they're using new tools and whatever was used in the past is clearly not working objection objectively you measure it it's not working so it's time to shift and try something else did that sound like the message coming from the AJC tonight I think they're they're talking in that way I think that there's you know the people I was sitting with and they said they watched behind the bmos I guess we'll find out if they do if we're in touch after this now but you know they run a significant Foundation they're very involved in philanthropy and they're very eager to see a a a new language a new approach a new strategy to anti-Semitism which also includes I was thinking a little bit of the APAC methodology of trying to identify up-and-coming influencers and winning them over as friends for Israel I think the Jewish people have to try to identify celebrities athletes influencers in other communities not the Jewish Community who who they don't know Jews and and to win their friendship and to turn them into Advocates and to have them stand up and and say you know I know Jewish people and I won't tolerate that kind of speech about them so you know John Mellencamp yes induction the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame you know maybe possibly might be having John Mellencamp on behind the bema but in this induction anyone younger than us that's going to be a live interview in his house and I'm gonna be there [Laughter] can you can you name it John Mellencamp song of course I can't first of all he's drummer Kenny aaronoff I know the whole band I bet you do but anyway he stood up he's getting inducted into a Rock and Roll Hall of Fame getting inducted into the Rock of all Hall of Fame and doesn't talk about his historical career in music he steps up and he says hey we can't tolerate these anti-time semitism and he names this Jew who's his agent and he says this guy changed the industry for all of us took care of all of us he's an amazing guy as our other Jew I've ever known and enough already we're not tolerating it and I think we need to win more friends who are willing to step up and stand out say those kind of things celebrities athletes and others it's different than the old way we dealt with things but what was so powerful about there were two things that were so bad there were three things number one that he made the statement number two that you see his agent his lawyer starts crying and you see how moved he is by the statement but number three you saw the entire Place give him a standing ovation yeah huge Applause so you're like if everyone's giving him a standing ovation and this is Hollywood and this is the you know the pop up world is is you know they're afraid you know they're afraid it's not it's becoming increasingly popular to be able to repeat and tweet anti-semitic tropes and comments and it's unpopular to stand up with a Jew right and uh yeah we're the Jewish celebrities where are high-profile Jewish celebrities I would say high profile Jewish athletes it's a very short list it's a little pamphlet if you know what I'm saying did you say that we are or where are where are where are these are we are high profile Jewish celebrities no no where are where w-h-e-r-e where where are the high-profile Jewish celebrities athletes to to to speak up and where are our friends where are our friends who are who are willing to stand up also in in the different worlds and venues and arenas because it's time to do something and I love the what Ambassador Friedman said and and I think somebody should be coordinating our lobbying effort that um your violence against a Jew in New York anywhere anywhere in the country it's consequences you don't get out of jail the next day with nothing on your record we throw the book at you prosecute to the maximum of the law we make it that we incentivize that you're out of your mind to do that and I loved his idea about undercover policemen dressed up as karate Jews and next you know somebody takes one of them on and the and the policeman reveals he's a policeman anti-summits are not going to start up with a Jew so quickly I don't know one of the people I sat was talking about you know a re-emergence of uh jdl I was about to say one of the people I sat with tonight wonderful people it was so nice to make new friends from this prominent Foundation said hey maybe it's time to bring back the jdl maybe the Jews can't rely only on others what was it every Jew with 22 is that their uh slogan every two at 48 right now because I don't even know what the Yeah but it is scary it's it's a scary world and a scary time that we're living in so there were some important thoughts there and we got to think about it in a new way from a new Direction but it was an honor and a privilege love to continue the conversation about his views about the intractable Palestinian conflict and what can be done what possibilities there are what was left on the table that they didn't get to it alluded to a little bit so there's a lot more to talk about but there's a lot that he I wish that you know imagine you could really go behind a beamer with him yeah you probably have then you probably had some menu you know off the record conversations but this is so much there it's really a warm and a wonderful person really enjoy that that privilege of that of that opportunity and to uh we'll continue we'll continue the conversation with him and with many others in the future but until next time your test Kiss Live I didn't realize it continues in fact I got to go to if I bring in right now this is another fiberian this is like the longest yantef is but party's still going so the light's still shining and the Hanukkah next week any message for Hanukkah before we close our way Brody it's about you know spread that light we don't diminish the light that we give we only increase it for others and for ourselves that's right when you light someone else's candle you light a fire your light doesn't get any smaller could spread it infinitely without getting any smaller I love Hanukkah next week we come to you on Hanukkah until then stay happy stay healthy stay holy