How Does Rav Gav Do It? | Rav Gav | Behind the Bima #196

[music] >> Welcome back to behind the bema. Rabbi Moscow is a little better rested, a little bit more focused than we were in our last introductory, which was on the heels of Pesach. >> Off the cuff and unscripted. Got a lot of feedback on that too, the way we we started last episode. But good to be together again. How are you? >> to be together again. How's your post Pesach treating you? Post Pesach is um there there is no post Pesach. Like you're waiting for that downtime and it's always just to the next busy time. Usually post Pesach, I say this not to make anyone feel bad. I understand where they're coming from, but sometimes it's motzei Pesach while putting the Pesach dishes away, other times it's the next morning. >> Rabbi, I've been meaning to ask you. >> flurry of texts and emails of like, now that Pesach is behind you. It'd be like my Today's the 15th. 10th day. It'd be like my emailing the accountant tonight. Now that all the taxes have been filed, I'd like to meet about my finances and whatever. So anyway, but it's great. It's a blessing. It's a blessing. >> up, right? You had Yom HaShoah last week, Yom HaZikaron, Yom Ha'atzmaut, obviously very meaningful. >> Unbelievable Yom HaShoah program this week. >> a powerful program this week. She's an amazing >> I whispered to you at one point, I said, I think this is one of the most powerful speeches we had heard. I mean, it was unbelievable. >> A woman of tremendous resilience, faith, focus, a mission to us, gratitude. She was incredible. >> And I got goosebumps cuz it was a grandmother of someone in our community and and at the end of her speech when she said basically how I am the victory over the Nazis, she said, you know, I have children and grandchildren and great-grandchildren. And then when she said, in this room, cuz not everyone knew at that point, it was a very goosebumpy moment and it really made you appreciate what Yom HaShoah is, how far we've come as a people, the miracle of the modern state of Israel, all of that. How do you as a rabbi deal with when we have amazing programs? It could be an incredible shiur, it could be a Yom HaShoah speaker, it could be a Carlebach concert. We have incredible programs. I sometimes I I I struggle between feeling bad for or even being angry at the people who aren't in the room. Like, I feel bad for you. You missed You missed an exceptional The The better part of me just feels bad for them. They missed it. The lesser good part of me is angry at them. Like, why aren't you here? Not The room was full. Not because we need you for numbers. The room was full. So, I'm not angry at you because I'm angry because like, don't you care about you? Aren't you invested in you? I'm more invested in you than you are. >> were walking out, I saw someone coming in for a later Maariv. And he said, "How was the program?" And I said, "The truth is, you lost out." I said, "That That was an opportunity you're not going to have many more times. It was You can't get that online. You can get the speech online. You spoke brilliantly on Shabbos about knowledge versus wisdom. You can get the knowledge online, but the wisdom, the feel, the environment, the being in the presence of someone who's who's such a holy person, um I really I I agree with you. I feel bad for people that weren't there. I think they missed out, as you said on Shabbos morning. I can't think of anywhere else you could have been wanted to be on Monday night rather than celebrating these survivors." Yeah, it's it's like a funny behind the beam and behind the scenes kind of thing as a rabbi is that we put on we try to promote and share um great programs, inspiring, again, teaching Torah and all the other programs that surround it and navigating the emotional relationship we have with what we do. That's not to say that everyone in every profession doesn't have it. So, I don't know if you own a shoe store, you want people to come buy shoes. >> We know people who own other stores. And when we don't use them as a vendor, they get They get very personally. And we always say, "You can't take it too personally." But, we take the show personally. Listen, this is not just a job for either one of us. It's a calling. We give our blood, sweat, and tears to it. And so, yeah, we do take it personally. We put on an amazing program. We think it's It's not just for us. It gives benefit to the community. And we want people to take advantage of it. That's the challenge, the tension of navigating between, you know, I feel bad and I I want to do a better job so more people will come, but also not being angry. Like, where were you? Why didn't you show up? Our shul dinner is coming. Aren't you proud? Shul pride. All that we do like, we're so invested emotionally, part of our identity, part of what we care about, and we want others to share it with us. We can't expect everyone to to the same degree, and maybe that's something that we need to navigate ourselves and tone down ourselves. >> Right. Right. I take Now, there was a very sad moment that night. I don't know if you felt that as well. We here at Boca Raton Synagogue every year, part of what we do is we invite up survivors to light candles, then children of survivors and grandchildren, great-grandchildren. It's a very powerful scene because you start with very few, and then by the end you see >> with six big candles, and then >> But the people that coming up, you see just the the the ripple effects of of all the survivors and how many generations have been born. But I when I came here 16 years ago, when we used to call up the survivors, there was there were a bunch of people that came up, and this year I think it was one or two. Yeah. And it's uh it's very sad. >> There were two survivors. They were both child survivors. That's why. And yeah, we we need to we need to download all the wisdom we can and and connect to their hotspot all all we can while we have them. Right. And please God will for a long time. We got a lot of feedback on last week's episode. Yes, we did. Um I got a lot of good feedback, a lot of positive, a lot of people who enjoyed the conversation, thought-provoking, stimulating. I'll remind everybody as we did last week before we put it out that it was recorded in January when Yael was in town, um and we only a lot of uh technical and production and and putting out interviews uh put it out now, but um it was a conversation that happened in January, so it has to be seen in that context. >> ago. When right, a a different time. A lot more going on. But even that said, you know, a lot of people found it the relationship between Israel and the diaspora, people who made aliyah, people who haven't yet, people who aren't thinking about it at all, all through the book of Ezra and Nehemiah. Got a lot of positive and then not-so-positive, too. Not-so-positive. >> you? Um I mostly got positive. Um people definitely enjoyed our conversation beforehand, but also the conversation with Yael definitely stimulated a lot of thinking. And I guess that's the goal, right? The goal is you're always going to Some people are going to agree, some people are going to disagree, but we definitely stimulated a lot of conversation in my house, in our community. We're getting a lot of feedback online. And you know, we've always said it's something we're very proud of. We have I think it's like text me this morning six or seven really prominent members of our community this summer that are making aliyah. And every year we do a big aliyah dessert reception. We celebrate these families. We honor speak about them. We give them the opportunity to speak and we really use them as role models to inspire the rest of the community. And perhaps that got a little bit lost in the conversation is just how much we as a community celebrate, push, encourage don't tell people if but when you're going to be making aliyah and to your credit you give lots of speeches where you come really hard on people and you're like you can't feel stagnant here in America. It has to be a constant conversation, a constant struggle in your family. >> that and I try. I would say that to anyone who listened or watched last week's episode and it's not controversial if you're getting the impression it is, it wasn't. But you you should see it as a as a reflection of a community and community leaders who are struggling with the question. So our conversation about is there room for a diaspora community, is there a role, what Hashem intends, what's the design, does everybody win? All of that is not a way of promoting diaspora. We're not discouraging aliyah or inviting those who live in Israel to move here. As you said, we're constantly promoting, celebrating, pushing, talking about, hosting Nefesh B'Nefesh, hosting Israeli real estate summit, hosting we're we're regularly because we care. It's all a reflection of the tension we feel. We're building and expanding our campus because there are people coming and Florida is that stop on the way to aliyah and we're doing it cuz that's where people are. But even this expansion is done sort of with this bittersweet, with this tension and this angst about are we increasing our footprint here in the diaspora, in America, in Florida when we should in Israel? So if if you if the conversation made you think, great. That was the goal. If if it disturbed you at all, just recognize that it disturbs us. We're in this inner conversation. >> You gave a shear about this on Shavuot on Pesach here on the RS, the eighth day. You gave a shear about whether rabbis should stay or whether rabbis should go. Did you get any feedback about that? It was funny. I I I shared the source sheets online. So, the people who weren't at the shear only got the sources without the Torah Shabal Peh what I what I spoke about in it, the context of it. You know, I got I got I got mostly positive and thought-provoking. Listen, when you're giving a shear about not making Aliyah to people in Boca who aren't making Aliyah, you're not going to get a lot of pushback from me. >> very different in Modi'in, probably. >> It might. It might. Um yeah, I mean, members of my family gave me some feedback. It's not criticism. It's feedback and it's thought. How do you view Aliyah? Is Aliyah about you an individual and what's right for you and your family? If you're a religious Zionist, Aliyah is about actually a movement and it's all about ushering in a new era and it's about a time of redemption and your role and your place and your contribution to it. So, there's multi-layers of of the conversation and there's outside influences to the conversation that people aren't necessarily entirely honest about, too, which is if if most of one's children have moved to Israel, they might move there not only because they're so connected to Israel, that's where their children are. If somebody's in a transition in their job, that mightn't be a great next step for them. Whereas, if they were thriving, they wouldn't have come up for them. I think it's true about Aliyah and it's true about most things, there's nuance and there's subtlety and and people speak in absolutes. And there are those who would never think about Aliyah and and they have no interest in it. And there are people who think everyone needs to make Aliyah right now, no excuses, no other criteria or considerations and they're wrong. And there's nuance and there's, you know, to it. Now, now what I find, again, because as you referenced, we recorded the interview pre-the war. Yeah. And now people are viewing it in the context of the war. I got some feedback from some people that said, I wonder if either you or Yael would change your opinions based on how the war played out. And what they were referencing is they felt that post October 7th American jewelry, we were one with Israel, we were doing missions, we were all in. This person who lives in Israel felt that with the Iran war, there was a massive discrepancy between American jewelry and Israeli jewelry. And And this person referenced particularly they're they're like, "I'm looking at, you know, statuses of Pesach programs and stuff like that while we're sitting in bomb shelters." So, they really felt that the conversation did shift a little bit after the Iran war. I'm wondering if you got any feedback or if you felt that yourself. Um I I definitely feel it. I wrote an article about it before Pesach saying that while our brothers and sisters are running to bomb shelters, stop posting pictures of your having a good time and fun Purim. I wrote it before Purim. And and I felt that. There were a lot of moments over Purim that I wanted to post you know, we had we had um Tzvi Bornstein Tzvi Bornstein here was an incredible Purim in many ways. And they were festive and fun and we had our driveway Purim day carnival fun thing. But but I didn't because I thought that is a sensitivity that we should have. So, um yeah, I think I think some of us have lost that. And I felt that at our Pesach. I was preparing the Seder and the Seder table. And then if you remember, that was when there was a you know, a series of missiles sent to Israel right at the Seder night there in Israel. And I remember texting my friends and saying, "I guess it's not going to be such a nice Seder for you because you're sitting in a bomb shelter." And that's really where I felt it. I was like, "Here we are in America. We just finished beer chametz. We're doing preparing for the Seder. Our tables are beautiful." And in Israel, they're running into shelters. And I just felt this like wide gap between the experience we were having and the experience they were having. I think the best that we can do is continue to remind people about that. And to do our best. I could do better. We could all do better. And it'll never be the same. You can't be Yael said that in the conversation. If you don't have the same experience, you you can't experience it the same by definition. But you can have sympathy and empathy and and feel connected. And we could do better at that. Um I I I my my kids in Israel told me about a head of a certain Yeshiva who instructed his talmidim to come back post Pesach and said, "Whoever used Egypt or Jordan to get out should be prepared to use Egypt or Jordan to get in." "Whatever energy, whatever money, whatever connections you used to get out, you should be prepared to use to get back to where you were and are and are meant to be." >> Yeah, I had a lot of conversations with people over Pesach. Some who are sending their children back, some who are not as excited to send their children back. And it's complicated, you know, families are complicated and mental health is complicated. >> too. It's not simple. The fact that you have family support, what about mental health, what about anxiety? There there and and deserves the nuance that that it has, 100% 100%. It could be that we should focus on ourselves and not focus on other people. Like that seems to be the narrative here, right? In other words, I'm going to take care of myself and I'm not going to judge other people. I'm not in their shoes. I don't know what they're going through. >> That was true 25 years ago, 20 years ago, 15 years ago. In a world in which people understand us on their social media, everyone's posting their experience, they're inviting you to have >> Right, they're inviting you. They're inviting you to have an opinion about it. So, if you're posting about your children or your own experience, where you had to go, what you went through, who got it right, who messed you over, you you're inviting the world to have opinions about everything. Like if you want to do the best you can for yourself, so keep it to yourself right and within your family. >> that's the lesson. And you're launching a technology. Maybe that's part of the technology challenge that you're launching. >> Resetting our relationship with technology. I'm I've seen the flyer, but I don't know what it actually like I'm going to sign up for that. >> my friend and to Guard Your Eyes, who really are the ones who put this together. We're just partnering with them. It's a 30-day technology challenge to reset our relationship with our phones. Uh, ironically run on WhatsApp. Um, but uh, there's a daily challenge for 30 days and the daily challenge are small manageable ones. Can you give me an example? Yeah, one of them is, um, today each time before you grab your phone, spend 5 seconds to ask yourself, do I need to go on my phone right now? Right? And then at the end of each day, at the end of each day it's a poll, did you do it or not do it? And the people who did do it are entered into raffles and there's prizes. >> poll. It's a public poll. And I've seen some of the other rabbis or groups who've done this and you'd be surprised cuz the poll is like did I do it or did I not do it yet or I found it too hard. And there are people who are honest, I found it too hard. You have people who will click that. >> Would you be honest? Um As a rabbi. Yeah, I think I would be. I think I would be. I think it's important to be. You see the power of of vulnerability, of honesty, of struggle. >> you and I both know some of our most powerful drashas are the ones where we were vulnerable to people and shared our own struggles and people related to that and found themselves through that. What's beautiful about this and again it's not mine, I'm I'm just adapting from others is it's not saying turn your smartphone for a dumb phone. It's not telling you like turn back the clock on technology. All it's saying is reboot the relationship with it. Like it's out of control, we're addicted. Let's reboot and re-establish and it takes 30 days to do that and hopefully after 30 days there's just a different relationship, a different consciousness, a different mindfulness through these and and it has an In fact, you remember one LO we ran these campaigns, we had separate WhatsApp groups for separate things, spiritual, physical, health. So I did one it was about a daily plank. >> I remember that. >> And you'd post the timer of your daily plank. >> down, man. Yeah, I think it was up to like 6 minutes. >> Yeah, there were people like twice my age who had planks like 7 minutes [laughter] long. But anyway, but but like being part of that group, knowing that you're accountable, having to post and share whether you did it or not, definitely definitely gets you more involved, raises the bar. Now there you you gave an amazing shot of a good old drasha about technology for those who weren't here in Boca. There was one part of it that shocked me. And once you said it, it kind >> till now? I waited till now. >> Wow. You started off your shear, I may have actually sent you this article, but now I'm seeing a lot of articles about it, which is the prominence of social media use in people 65 years and older. There was an article just baby boomers. In one article I think I think it was New York Times or Wall Street Journal maybe 2 days ago. Basically people look forward to retirement their whole lives >> Yeah. and then they got there and they don't know what to do it and so they end up on social media all day. I found that fascinating. And to us who live in a community where obviously there are a lot of older members and we're constantly looking to program for them and fill it with meaning, it's just like opened up a whole Right, exactly. Like it opened up a whole narrative of of like someone who didn't grow up with social media now has to learn to navigate it but they're 70, 75, 80 years old. I thought that was fascinating. It got a great reaction. I made a joke that basically the baby boomers once their grandchildren tell them how to use their phone now they can't put it down. Now they won't put it down. No, but I was surprised by that. Cuz everyone writes it off as a young person problem. >> Right. It's not a young person problem. It's a It's an every person problem. >> Yeah. It's actually an literally an every person. If you're alive and you have the technology, it's a problem. >> Now when you meet people that have like conquered this and we both know people like this, they're like really not on technology. Do you admire them or do you say that's not something I can do right now? Because obviously so much of our life is on WhatsApp, it's on >> Yeah, I the people doing it in the extreme, I I look at and they're not even Bubba Hershkowitz from like I can't like I can't do that. When we were on our flight we met with somebody who did that. They changed to a dumb phone and they don't look at it between hours but they live that life and that lifestyle. Right. If you and I weren't accessible to answer people's emergencies, halachic questions, issues, there are people in very Yeah. dire circumstances right now. Like we can't Yeah, I understand. But with that said, we could definitely reboot the relation I can reboot my relationship with my phone. I can absolutely reconnect so everyone's invited to join us. It's probably in progress already but join now. If you want rabbieframgoldberg.org/challenge you can join the group and go on your own pace and do it and we'd welcome it. But we've got a great conversation with Rav Gav, the great Rav Gav, Rav Gavriel Friedman, great machanech, teacher, educator. So on personal journey, own experience. Um yeah. He's a source of a lot of inspiration and a lot of humor. And a lot of humor. A lot of joy, a lot of fun and we're glad that he stopped by for this conversation. So without any further ado, the great Rav Gav. Welcome back to Behind the Bima, special privilege this week to talk to our friend Rav Gav, Rav Gav, a beloved rebbe, teacher, primarily at Aish and its many programs that exist there. And also, in how many seminaries in Israel? Uh a bunch. I think seven. Yeah. >> Seven seminaries across Israel? >> I think so. >> Which is amazing. So, you definitely probably have a great perspective on cross-section of girls' options of seminaries and where to go to. But, first of all, thank you for being with us. Thanks for making the time to go behind the bima together. Honor and a privilege. Oh. Honor and a privilege. >> I will tell you this, I have a a grandson named Gavriel. And they call him Gav. And when I say my call him Rav Gav. >> Nice. So, you probably get that a lot, but anyway. >> Rav Gav. I'll take that. I'll call you Rav Gav. Rav Gav Pinchas. Gav Pinchas. Okay, we got a new name. >> Gav Pinny. We got a we got a good name for Rabbi Moscow. It's So, um what a year to be teaching in Yeshiva seminary in last couple of years, wars, and now last month Iran. >> [snorts] >> Um You think that the kids who've been there I mean, you've been doing this now for a while, close to two decades, right? Yeah, 25 years. 25 years. Yeah. Two and a half decades. That's right. >> Oh, wow. That's right. That's a long time. So, you've seen a lot. Um I I happen to have had a daughter in seminary during Corona. I had a daughter in seminary during the Gaza war. I have a daughter in seminary now during the Iran war. And while people have a lot of pity or rachmanus that it's disruptive to their seminary experience, I think it probably enriches it a lot. Yeah. It's creating memories that otherwise maybe you wouldn't have and feeling you're part of the people, you're on the front line of Nissan and Maslow's Hashem connection to the people, the land. So, what what have you seen over these last close of of people there? I've seen a lot of people trying to leave. Yeah. I've seen a lot of people trying to not just trying, a lot of people leaving. And this past week or so, as I get I get a lot of phone calls when something goes wrong simply because they need to entertain this to educate the students. So, so like I was in I can't say I don't want to say this isn't going to be so nice, but a seminary that I don't normally teach in called me up and said, "Can you come teach for us?" And said, "Do you mind me asking cuz you haven't had me teach in 10 years?" So I said and I'm sure I said something last time but and and and and she said to me, "Well, we've had over two dozen girls that have left in the last two days and the morale is very low. You know, it's it's it's very So she just needed like push them a little bit. >> in morale. >> I specialize in upping morale apparently. I found this out last week, yeah. But one of the things I said to the girls, I said to them that Okay, obviously we don't want wars, we don't want fighting, we don't want death, we don't want all this kind of stuff. Nobody wants that stuff. Um and you have to do what you got to do. Everybody has their things. Excessive anxiety and stress and whatever. I'm not getting into your personal psychological whatever it may be. If you have the capacity, there's a lot to gain. You have a lot. This is like when you get to do it for now. You get to put to practice the ideas of learning about emunah emunah emunah emunah. Now you get to go into bitachon. This is it. This is the real deal. And of course be safe and and be actually taught them in the shelter. We were in a shelter the whole time. But obviously we should be safe. Do what you got to do. But I think this is a tremendous opportunity to really connect with Hashem in a deep way. So you got when you says when the rabbonim here were mentioning it is of connecting to Am Yisrael and Eretz Yisrael and all that stuff. I'm I'm a big fan of that but I'm also a huge fan of connecting with Hashem. So so if that's what you meant then forgive me but if it's not what you meant then don't forgive me. And it's what an opportunity to be able to We go through things all the time. Everybody's going through things all the time. Question is what do we do with those things? And this this is big. I was like, "Guys, you heard story I don't know if you I hope maybe you heard stories of the Gulf War. I don't know if you guys heard of stories of the Gulf War." But no, you definitely heard of the Gulf War but I'm saying with these kids are they're young, right? So say they they they're born in 2006, seven. You know, I said they I said, "You heard stories from the Six-Day War, you know?" They're like, "Yeah, yeah." I'm like, "You're living through this. You're living through this right now. This is >> that? So, there's a know, I mean again, 18 is is uh is if you are that, it's very old and mature and very big and tremendous. But, if you're not that, if you're a little older or younger, then it's young, you know? So, like do they appreciate it? The answer is when spoken out, I think they're able to have the concept. Some then take it and say like, "Okay, you know what? I'm going to grow from this." And others try to find a way out, you know? And it's fine. I'm not I'm not judging. I'm just saying if you are there, it's it's tremendous opportunity to take it. Mhm. Carpe diem, right? Grab grab that opportunity. Seize the day. That's what it actually means. Yeah. How would you compare the different seminaries that you teach on you teach on the spectrum of seminaries, let's say? Yeshiva Nam Yeshiva across a section of Yeah. seminaries. So, are there trends that you see in common? Um are there differences you see in between them? I'm not asking you for a review particular seminaries. And you're not the Israel guidance counselor here and No. and definitely don't want to put you on the spot to do that. But, over the 25 years of teaching and teaching in so many places, uh how are students changed? Has teaching changed? Has the attention span changed? Uh technology, all these things. What what are the trends that you see? Well, the the first thing is I think that people are people. And that's whether you're a uh whether the Yeshiva girl or a non-Yeshiva girl, of course there's differences. There's definitely differences. Most of those differences are coming from how they were raised in terms of their immediate home. That's most of the differences. But, uh one of my favorite things one of my favorite games to play and to see if they have me back to speak again is when I get speak at a high school uh usually Yeshiva high school anywhere in the world. And uh and then I then I'll turn to the teachers and I'll say like, "If you don't mind if you could please just leave the room. I want to speak to the kids alone." Now, nobody likes when I do that because like you got to ask permission. Start before whatever. Remember the first time we did this, wow, did this person kill me with their eyes, you know? Looks can kill. And uh and I said, "Guys, now whatever you want to ask, you can whatever you want. Whatever you want. It's up to you." And uh at the end of the day, it's amazing to see. It doesn't matter Bais Yaakov non-Bais Yaakov. Everybody has questions. >> that? Kinds of questions. Um I'm not saying this is coming from Bais Yaakovs. What I'm saying over here, you know, wink wink, but uh um you you the the three top questions are Jewish music, uh Mhm. topics of gender, and uh uh boys, and uh how do we know the Torah is really true? Interesting. And we're talking about across the spectrum. It's amazing that they're equated. How do you know the Torah is true, and why is Jewish music better than music? >> are those Jewish music It's literally They're like same level. Same level questions. >> my my point is just to point out that that kids are kids, you know, people have questions, and and and and it's okay to have questions. You have to be able to My my daughter said to me something amazing. Uh maybe 10 years ago, I'm thinking that they they went to a camp in Eretz Yisrael. Which again, I can't I wish I could I wish I could just speak lashon hara. That would just make things so much easier. But but we went to a I could I actually could, but >> much more popular. Yeah. Yeah. But there's your by the way, there's the clickbait. Like I wish I could speak more lashon [laughter] hara, you know. But anyway, um and Rolex watches, and um the raffles. Okay, but anyway, the uh the point is that uh Where was I? Oh, so my my kids went to a camp, and my my daughter said to me, "Tati, it was so sad." I said, "What happened?" She said, like, "It's all girls, Bais Yaakov, and um Eretz Yisrael. Not not not America. Yeah, Eretz Yisrael. And the chef, the cook, who was a man, came out to bring the food, and a girl asked a question about something uh um you know, question in dam hashkat av question. And And and he started to answer. Then the crowd came around. And he's the chef. He's like, I I'm not like, "What do you want from me?" you know? But, the cool guy, you know? And like, and and he basically started giving like a impromptu informal schmear of session. So, so my daughter said to me, like, so sad they they were asking questions. It was like like, "How do you mean? Tell me how do you know Hashem?" So, with trepidation, I said, "Oh, um did you guys ask this question? Like, did you want to know this Like, this Were you wondering this? You know? Is this" And they're like, "No. Like, no." So, I said, "Now I felt a little Like, why?" And they said, "Because we come to your classes." >> [laughter] >> So, they mean, you know, they go to programs and teaching and whatever. And the older ones, they're going whatever. They've heard it all. So, that's the first thing we say, like, what's the What have I seen over whatever? I've seen that people are people. Like, don't for a second judge and think that because they look not religious that they're not. And if they look religious that they are. That's one of the biggest things that I've learned in Aish. Was uh years ago, there was a guy You stop me whenever you want. I'm just Okay, so there was a there there was this guy who came to Aish. I I was teaching a what's called the Essentials program. It's it's open. Anyone can walk in. Man, woman, child, and now whatever else you want to call it. And uh Jews, non-Jews. You get You get a whole whole groups of different groups of people that are coming in. I just have to make sure I'm in Florida when I said what I said. Okay, fine. Florida this. [laughter] Make sure I'm I'm in attendance. This is Florida. Anyway, good. So, um this guy sitting right in front of me, not literally directly in my line of sight, but a very holy guy. I'm saying he had piercings everywhere. Like, very holy. And um holes all over the place. Anyway, so uh cuz we have lashon hara, piercings, and uh I'm going to wait. Yeah, I don't know if I can I'm not even sure if I can say what I'm about to say. Not so controversial. You're welcome. But anyway, >> [laughter] >> but here's the But here's the thing. So this guy this guy is sitting For those watching it it doesn't mean nothing. Um but this guy sitting right in front of me and I said something and then he says to me he did not look religious. He did not look Jewish. It's external whatever. And at the time I used to judge people openly and I don't judge people like openly. I think things but I don't say it. Um so I'm looking at this guy and and I said something and then he goes, "Well, what about the guy goes He raises his hand again he goes, "What about the Ramban?" So I [snorts] don't know if you've ever had this before in speaking when it just doesn't fit. Like it doesn't fit, right? So so I said to him I was like "What?" He said he goes, "What about the Ramban?" And I'm looking at him my my internal is like on this error error error error. You know, it's right here when we arrived here in Florida my kids are with me like we saw a gas station and my kids are like, "Look, Chevron." >> [laughter] >> Never in a million years I'm like Chevron like what do you what Chevron you don't even see it. It's right in front of your eyes. So when this person goes, "What about the Ramban?" It just didn't make sense nothing you're right in front of me. You said that but you couldn't be you said that. And and then it turns out okay he went through whatever he went through his rough stuff and yeah but he really was genuinely wanted to know the answer to the question. And and I said and that moment really shocked me and I said, "Wow, you look so not what I thought but maybe you're more than I thought." And then I also recently taught a group of religious girls. I told them that story and I said there's some girls that look religious. Anyway, my point is this. Yeah? You you don't know. You have no idea. I live when we first moved to Boca there's a development called Lago. We lived in Lago and we were living near the pool. And back in the time I was learning in the kollel here on Friday afternoons were a time off as opposed to now in the rabbinus. And that was the time I had one daughter at the time and we used to go in the pool. It was empty. We used to go in the pool. There was a neighbor in Lago who lived a couple a couple doors down from us. Um his name was Michael. And there were always peculiar smells that were coming. It was before anything was legalized. And he had very interesting chevre that would make their way into it. He was hosting all kinds of gatherings and parties, a lot of loud noise. And if you had to write him off as being that kind of I don't know. Occasionally, when I didn't find him there would be in the pool with my daughter, he'd also be hanging out at the pool. It was usually just me and him, and there was no interaction. I said low as friendly, but there usually no interaction. One Friday, he's he's just like sitting in the pool chilling. And I'm there with my daughter, and he says, "Uh do you know what time it is?" I said, "Sure." I went I gave him the time, and he goes, >> [laughter] >> Talking about a bagel. You don't say "Shkoyach." Michael was really That's not like "Shabbat shalom." Michael was really Michael. Nice. >> And the camera who were all coming to his house, it was, you know, Bayla and Spritzer and whatever. And we had the pasta and having for Shabbos meals and a relationship. And it was all because, you know, he wanted that "Shkoyach." That "Shkoyach" spoke volumes, volumes, volumes, volumes. >> is like the bagel stories. I I I just probably one of the best stories I've ever heard was you have to Hope I I'm speaking now. I'm not used to what I'm doing. I'm not doing what I normally do because I'm looking at you and you look religious, so I'm I'm speaking to religious I don't know I don't know the I don't know the crowd, but like I usually translate everything cuz I'm used to the nature. I translate everything. But yeah, I've been like very not doing that, but I'm going to keep not doing it. And you look it up. If you want to look it up, you look it up. So, ask Chatty blah blah. You know, whatever. Ask Blair. Um but the I find one of the greatest stories I've ever heard was from of Mayor Goldwick. And uh if Mayor Goldwick if that doesn't sound familiar, Yeshiva of Yeshiva University. He he he I know he still does every Now it's very hard with the flights, but he comes there to sell once a month. Right. He goes to communities. It's Saturday. And he goes and he speaks like 16 times, and then he goes home. And uh I believe this story happened, I think, in Iraq. This story happened. That he was invited there, and he gets there, and the rav of the community crazy story. The rav of the community invite You heard this story? Invited him, you know, took him in his car. He's taking him and saying, "This is where we We the base madras, and this is where we have the Sephardi, and this is with the and this is where we have the the mikvah and whatever. It's getting close to Shabbos. And as they're as they're traveling, suddenly [snorts] they uh hear like a whoop whoop, you know, and they they see that they're getting pulled over. And um they get pulled over and this uh shotelit that's a female police officer for those unfamiliar with that, I'll translate. She gets out of the car, and she is wearing straight-up Saran wrap, you know, like you know, very Anyway, she uh she she comes to uh it was it was it was uh tinted, but anyway, so she she comes to the car and she sees she she she said he opens the window like and she says, he's like, "Okay, for the Rav." You know, honorable rabbi. I I I need to come to the edit. Like, I'm so sorry that I stopped you. I just noticed your car. Everyone knows the Rav here. You say It's just it's getting close to shkiya, and I have uh a ma'ariv, and and I just have a shaila. Can you tell me if this is muttar asser? Wow. And of course the Rav is like me? Can I help you, sir? Like, what is happening over here? What are you talking about? Okay, so so the answer is, just to bring it back, people are people. I don't care if they're they look one way, they look another. Everybody's got their questions, everybody got their stuff they got to work out. That's number one. Number two, so that that's the way we have to look at the the the you know, the kids or or the adults, you know, look at people. I I just have a a a message for the for all the educators out there. The line when people say that you don't have attention spans, you know, no attention spans anymore. How are those kids able to watch 3 hours of a movie? How are those kids able to play a video game for 45 days straight? How are they able to do it? They don't have attention spans. What What kids these days. What kids these days? If you would be interesting, they would watch you, too. If you're not interesting, you're going to lose them. Which Which is not these days. Go back 20 years ago. You have a teacher that's in front of the room, and they go, "Hi." Today, we're going to discuss How many people are like, "I just have such an attention span for you." Has it changed? Probably scientifically all the 6-second thing in the shows and the movies and changing scenes and all that, and I got all that jazz. But ultimately, I I I find it really just depends on who's the educator. And like if if you're passionate about what you're doing, and you enjoy it, and it they find you're going to catch their attention, you'll get them. But if you start to say like, "Oh, kids these days, you know." That's That's not So you've spoken about seminary girls, you've beaten up on machon chaim all There aren't enough of them, and now half of them have just dropped off. Hopefully. Hopefully. [laughter] Hopefully. Crisis. That's what we're here for. What would you want parents to know, right? If you could talk to the parents of these girls and say, "I'm giving you a message about what you could be doing differently, how you could be changing." What would that message be? >> Well, I I I I don't know if this is about girls, about boys, about parents in general. And And this is just uh This is one of my favorite things to think about personally, and therefore I will not only take it myself and project it on everyone else, and then I will remove myself, and it'll just be them. And that's the following. Uh I find that um Th- This line hit me hard when I was talking I got a phone call from a a mother. I don't know the mother. I don't know the kid. Th- They're from another country. That means not America, not Israel, another country. And um Anyway, uh it called me out in the That's when it hit me. There's a long story to it. The The bottom line is I said to this woman, I said, "Isn't it crazy?" >> [snorts] >> The question was about her kid, about a 7-year-old kid. So I said, "Isn't it crazy that here we are parenting when really we're just a bunch of overgrown children with unresolved childhood issues?" Th- This This is like if if there's one thing that I that I could say to uh not one, one and a half and add plus things that I would say a lot of letters in a lot of add to this that I would say to the parents is the following. Number one, if you ask yourself one question when you're dealing with your kids, are you parenting or are you ranting? Are you parenting or are you ranting? What's the difference? >> means is if you have a kid that's behaving in a way that we feel like we have to now educate them, them, teach them, whatever it is. What what what are you doing? Are you really being them or are you troubled by something that's going on that really has nothing to do with them? If you're ranting, then it's about you. If you're parenting, it's about them. And when can you tell the difference? Well, if you feel the need to do it immediately, I have to do this right now, it's usually you're ranting. I would have to get an emergency situation where you're running in the street or whatever it is, God forbid. We're talking about a case like a kid does something they shouldn't have done, whatever it may be. You have to immediately deal with it? Or could it be done like come, relax, take it in a little bit. And then just to go uh that's the first thing I would say. Like just to ask yourself the question. And I try to challenge myself with this and like a kid behaves in a way you're driving, they yell in your ear and you say, you should be careful, you know, ALL THAT YELLING IS DANGEROUS WHEN YOU'RE DRIVING. That that's really the message or they just yelled in your ear and you're like you're all upset about the fact that they yelled in your ear. And then behind it with like, no, parenting, I'm here for my kid, I'm helping them. Are we helping them or we helping ourselves? That's uh what I would say numero uno. Numero segundo is I would say the following. And this is uh so classic, but I'm telling you from my personal life. When people ask me, "How are you so incredibly successful and so amazing?" And I get that question every day. Anyway, but when people go there >> [laughter] >> uh when people ask, well, who's asking like, "What is the secret to your success?" And whatever that means. Obviously, they mean my wealth. I mean, if you look at me, everyone's thinking, "Wow, look at his tie." Cuz it's the only tie I have. And so someone asked so came to me I do a thing called the project that I work with a lot of schools. So, they I "Oh, we wanted to see your tie. We wanted to see the the blue tie. Whatever. But >> [snorts] >> if you ask what's the secret sauce, the answer is I'm not negating my father's existence, but it's definitely my mother. What I mean by that is is my mother gave me unbounds, like not there was no rules. I can't say the same for my siblings. I'm not That's their own issues, but I'm saying with me, uh love love love love love. Not to sound cliche because it is the the word of the day. Um I I do think it has to be tethered. I think it has to be it has to be connected. It has to have a have a year thing. You need year. There's no question you need year and you need boundaries. That's why I got into a big argument with somebody about that, a big machanaqa about that. I don't I'm going to remove those. Uh the big machanaqa about that. I got into a big argument about that. I believe you have to have some sort of base ground, but you got love your kid. And if you're worried about what's going to be, >> [snorts] >> I can't tell you. I can just tell you me is that my mother loved me to life. And because of the fact that she gave me so so much, yeah, even though I had my my my travels, let's call it. I think the good Lord it was never I never went anywhere because I was like, "Okay, that I have nowhere to go." How did that love express itself? Affection, compliments, confidence, support, spelling it out, praise. That was a lot. That was good. I would say if I had to pick one of all of those, I would say support would be the number one I would say. The rest of them are all correct as well, but the the number one is my mother always had my back. Even when I was totally wrong. And it was pasha that I was wrong. You know, it's like you think a kid doesn't know when they do something wrong. It's like you did the wrong thing. You're like, "I didn't Oh, I didn't know I shouldn't light the desk on fire. Like I thought it was like a mitzvah, you know? Cuz we're learning about the kamo, so you have to bring it to life, yeah?" And it says like, "No, no, that's not that's that's more of a maseva." But I said, "It's okay, we're some both." The answer is support. That I never thought about it. This you just asked me this question ever. That was a great question. I enjoy and appreciate >> Yeah, cuz how does love translate? There's love from tough love. There's affectionate love. There's critical love. there's So for me I felt support. I felt absolute support. That's that's the way that I would say it and that you should know >> Parents should listen carefully because I don't think I've ever said that ever, ever. I've never said that. No one's ever asked me that. Only on behind the beamer. Oh my goodness. First year, breakthrough. I think support it's a feeling of it's a feeling of I got you. Like you know, you're good. Is there a danger of too much support because we're living in a generation, you know, we talk about when I was when I was a kid I I I always stayed up late. The only nights I went to sleep early were parent teacher [snorts] conference night. I I was definitely asleep before my parents came home, no matter what. >> Last night I went to sleep. It was like 5:00 p.m. and I was like sorry, I was so tired I had to go to sleep. Right? So it used to be a parent teacher night that the children would sit there and the teacher was on the parent's side they would go and and talk about the kid. And now the teachers are shaking and and the kids are confident. So is there such a thing as too much support where the parent marches into the teacher and it's like I I have to have my son's back so I'm going to Sometimes you can't be right. Parents also Or the kids are wrong. What's that balance of the support? Absolutely yes. Now so that's where I have to where whether I like to or not I have to give father to my credit to my father in this which I only realized when I was like 33 is when I noticed this. So in eight years is when I noticed this is that um my my father was very tough, very very like you know Get a job, do what you got to do, you know, be responsible. Get up for minyan, be involved. My father used to wake me up for minyan and when he would wake me I'd be like because you woke me then I'm not going to minyan. He's like you were sleeping anyway. That would make absolutely no sense, you know. I'm like well I'm going off the derech. He's like go off the derech but come to shacharis, you know. It's like so [snorts] it was very tough and I really didn't notice it until it's like that moment that you just said now. I had this moment when I was teaching a project inspire it's they do this very late night thing you've been you know the rap with the rabbis that like starts at mid starts at midnight and it goes to like sometimes two, three. One night it went till 5:00 in the morning. It just keeps going. Q&A, whatever his days. And on stage, as I was answering the question similar to this, "Well, what do you give your kids?" I said, "If I just had my mother, I would have been a wreck." Just loving me and we know and we know we have to be careful about how far that goes, what that means and the goes into it. But the point is, you know, by itself is a problem. >> Right. You got to make sure you have and you have to long and like have a year. So, I I I do think that maybe it could have been done a little bit differently, but I do think it was important that I had it. That that balance. Without >> [snorts] >> So, I I think it has to be balanced. Otherwise, I think that a mother and a father should both have themselves. I think in my house it was split, which was which was challenging. Very challenging as a as as a child and when I say child, up until 33. Like until that. Uh but uh But yeah, you got to have it and that's why Why am I saying the other one is because I mean to say is you have to give that that that that that net of love because if not, they're going to look somewhere else. That's the bottom line. If kids are looking for they need they want to feel like they like they're connected. Like they they want to connect to something. So, let's say they're not connecting to their learning or they're not connecting to their to their So, it's not a parent and it's not a rabbi and it's not the learning, they're going to find a girl. They're going to find technology. They're going to find something. Yeah, exactly. Some of that's Mike stuff, you know, whatever, you know, Michael, you know, his stuff or whatever. They're going to find something. Everybody searching for something. I said I said we're all looking to feel connected. We want to feel I heard there was a big coming up. Oh, finally. So, let me ask you another question. You you talked about your outstanding success and and you know, every day you can't go without in life in life. Um but but your success is that you're you're you educate, you inspire, and you also entertain. You engage. You keep You talked about keeping someone's attention. You know, when we have guest speakers who come and they say, "How long should I speak for?" I say, "It depends." They say, "On what?" I say, "If you're interesting, you can speak for a very long time. And if you're not, then 1 minute is too much. Then 1 minute is too long." So, you know, I I say the same thing. Um there's an element of being a performer. And I don't say that in a negative sense. You know, as as teachers and educators ourselves, different audience, but also there's there's a performance. And that's what engages in storytelling and and humor and all of that. At what point did did you become a performer? Were you that child always who at the Shabbos table, were you among your friends, were you that person who was always Is this something that you've cultivated and developed within yourself? Did you always have it, but you channeled it into teaching? And did you always know you're going to be a teacher? Right, that just happens. You guys are so good. This is so good. >> It's funny, our our wives wake up every morning and say, "You guys are Yeah, exactly. >> [laughter] >> Not a day goes by people don't stop us and say, "You guys are the best interviewers." Yeah. Best interviewers. Yeah. This is so good. I I'm so enjoying this. I I want to Before I answer that, I want to I'm curious what you think. About that question? >> Yeah, what do you think? Do you think that this is something that I developed? Do you think it's something that I did as a kid? Do you think that it's a If I had to bet, I would say that as a child, if I had your parents here and I said, you know, Gav, Rav Gav, when Gavriel was younger, was he always keeping you in stitches? Was he Was he joking at the Shabbos table? Was he keeping people going? My guess, my bet would be yes. Yeah, and then at some point you just channeled that into constructive ways. Yeah. How do we do? Yeah. Excellent. Yeah. The answer was So, this is where it's a little different than the norm. Although it's true that you have to perform, not you, one, A, me, myself, it helps to be performative. Although that is there's truth in that, uh it's very natural what I do. It's not um studied. I mean, the truth is there's been many many thousands of hours of movies that I've watched that has helped. And I think the most I've been compared to is Robin Williams. >> Diligent preparation. >> Yeah, there was a lot that that that's a reality, you know? So, uh This is momish. I've been giving give give divrei Torah at my Shabbos tables since I'm a little kid. I was always the one who spoke when we had guests. I was always the host. I was always the the the the one that was leading the ceremonies. That's something that was totally natural. So, when I go, it's it's it's hard for people to even believe me. And that's what I'm okay with that. That maybe took me time to have the self-esteem to say like I'm really okay with it. I'm I'm You used to be like, "No, I have to show you." I'm really okay with that. You don't have to believe me. I'm fine with that. I'm okay. But, it's really straight-up It's a natural It's a natural thing. I don't drink coffee. I don't do crack. I I don't I I don't >> have fun. Like you look like you're having fun right now. >> Unless I don't enjoy it, you know? Unless I I'm actually thinking the whole time that my light up my light I don't know like the like I'm just not Yeah, yeah, for sure. Make yourself com- Take your jacket off. Make yourself comfortable. I have two ties. I'm like, "GIVE ME THE BLUE TIE." >> NO, SO HERE'S but here's the reverence of God, right? So, your son is here. He's hanging out till we're done. Hopefully he's still talking to you when we do. So, you're going to get in the car when we're done. It's late at night. We don't I don't think we've ever recorded at this hour before, but but you know, for of God will He starts at midnight. This is the early >> That's true. This is the early. This is the early session. So, when you get in the car to drive wherever you're going after this, will it be like And your son is like just I just I just be quiet. Just leave me alone. Or no, you're still on. You're still Even when the camera's off and the classroom's empty and there's no one there, this is still who you are. You the Because there are certain teachers and educators who are in the front of the room, they own the room, they're moving that. And then and then like it turns off and they're all of a sudden they become this introvert, quiet, they're allergic to people, antisocial. That's not you. So, so so it's interesting. I'm not sure if I'm an introvert or an extrovert. I I would imagine I'm an extrovert. Yeah, I'm I'm an ex- an introvert. I I I don't know exactly. I would say the natural would say like I'm an extrovert, you know? I'm going to say, "Look, I'm out there, people." Yeah, I'm an extrovert. But but it's over time because I've been doing this so long, I don't feel the necessity to be the one I don't I'll give it like a little uh Okay, direct answer to the question is no, I'm not going to be like it's not going to happen. No, I'm going to be I'll be on. This this is >> Come on, you're you're The times when it's hard for me are when I'm traveling hours and hours and hours, and then I have to get up and I'm I'm very exhausted. But once I'm teaching, adrenaline's pumping, then I'm totally fine. And when you when you said that do will I be like what came to my mind is yeah, after not sleeping for like 40 hours, when the class ends, I'm just I'm dead, you know. But if there be another class, I'll be on again. Like it's fine, you know, it's not it's not that's not the issue. If I'm in the zone, I'm in the zone. I I it's reminiscent of of I think it was '97 Bulls-Jazz game. I think it was '97, it could be it wasn't. And it was in Utah. It was there's a whole there's a there's a big >> flu. Was that the flu? >> The flu. Flu. And it's a whole you know there's a whole >> I heard something I might have heard something I think that maybe they messed the Yeah, that might too. What do you think we're the same? Unbelievable. Exactly. No, my wife's wife I Anyways, so um >> [laughter] >> Anyways, so so so Jordan the flu game He he he I think he scored 39 points I think it was in that game, and he had a 105 fever. And there's one famous picture with him and Scottie Pippen when when the whistle blows. He couldn't even walk off the court, and Scottie's holding him. >> collapses on Pippen there. And he's like walking with him. Whistles back in, he's back in. You're like how is this guy playing 105? Like we're at the like death league. Like this is like E.R. Like this is like you don't you don't [snorts] keep playing. But when you're in the zone, you're in the zone. And for me, giving over in teaching, as long as the crowd's good. Do you feel that energy? >> Oh, big time. If the crowd is not is not into it, I just like >> Have you spoken in England? Yeah, yes. I have a great story. I've had to break them down. Careful you take this one, man. The first >> No, no. Last year I went to England I spoke. I had to go. And I I spoke in a bunch of places, but I was speaking in a shul at night, and someone from here, a British person from our shul, texts me right before and said, "Rabbi, I just want to warn you that if you make a joke and you don't they don't laugh, it's not because you're not funny. It just England's just a different culture to them. I apologize to people from England right now, but it was a British person in our shul. So, thank God he warned me. I got up and I'm I'm I'm I'm no Rav Gav, but you know, I try to be funny, and it's like I'm getting nothing. I'm getting nothing. And thank God the person texted me, otherwise I don't know, I would have run out of the room crying. >> The first time I did this was before I started teaching. I was 20 4 something age, she was 21 or 22 years ago, and I went to I taught at somewhere in in England. And no one warned me. I could tell you up there with the top five most uncomfortable experiences of my life was speaking in front of a crowd with no reaction to anything I said. I say a funny joke, this is like the most I got was like I [laughter] I I I mentioned the one thing is I mentioned chocolate cake, and I saw someone smile. It was a very heavy guy in the back of the room. I said chocolate cake and he smiled. Other than that, and I say a sad story, and someone goes like >> [laughter] >> And then, I'll show you how this after, they come after and someone goes like, "You were brilliant." I was like Like you couldn't give me any love during the speech? >> Oh my goodness, it was so uncomfortable. But uh but I because I've been there a few times, I I had a Now you've adjusted. Are you conscious and aware whether it's a classroom, right now on a conversation, on a podcast, do do you feel like I've got to be Rav Gav, I've got to be funny, right? I have a reputation that I'm funny, I'm high energy. What if I'm not funny? What if I don't think of something funny? What if I force it to be funny? You know, comedians joke about that. You know, they go to a shabbos the the now Jewish community, the frum community, I don't know why I did that either. But they sit at a shabbos table, and someone's like, "Oh, you're a comedian." Exactly. Right, but they say, "Oh, you're a comedian." All right. [laughter] Comedians, England. No, but the community at the shabbos table, they're all like, "You're a comedian, say something funny." So, they got have of God? Say something funny. You're of God. Say something funny. So, one of the things that I Dance monkey dance. One of the things that I I so dislike is when I I know probably someone's going to do it on purpose now, but is when they peg me as funny. Don't do that. Yeah. You could say it like he's great, he's entertaining, you'll enjoy it. But if you say I'm funny, then I have to live up to it and I'm like, okay. And I'll start with like I'm not doing it. Someone had me come to like, we need you to come and be funny. I I'm and and I don't prepare jokes. I don't sit down. I don't whatever. For me it's very natural. It is exactly what I am is what I am. I don't I I when I prepare a shear, I prepare a shear. Like and I'll give the same shear in mirror as I'll give the same shear in a seminar which is a very low level seminar. Whatever [snorts] that means. Speecher is our guidance counselor later, but what what I'll give the same shear. It's just, you know, I'll add in different words or whatever to Once though I get going in my it's myself. I feel connected a little bit, not so much. I don't know if you know Andy Kaufman. If you know who that is, but Man in the Moon. If you know Andy Kaufman, whatever. He was a comedian and Taxi. If you know Khash Sham. You You know what I'm talking about. I mentioned [snorts] more pop culture in this thing than I have in many years. But it is they call Taxi. Guy named Andy Kaufman. And um The guy was a The guy was a He's a bit of a whack job and like he's very funny, but a lot of times he would go on set and he would see jokes that were inside jokes with himself. Just to make himself laugh. >> No one else got it and no one else laughed. >> Sometimes he'll give a drasha Yeah, I do that sometimes. >> now. Like no one else understood that maybe I got it, but he did it to make himself feel better. Yes, so that that's like, you know, I'll do those type of stuff. I'm not here to make When I'm coming to a place, I'm here I'm here to Yeah, okay, I know I'm going to entertain. I understand. Edutainment is okay. You know what I'm saying? But but if you're coming to me to tell me, "Be funny." I can't. I'm not doing it. I'm not a comedian. Comedians are very depressed. Uh are very It's very hard to be a comedian. You have to write jokes, you have to be prepared, you have to whatever. It's It's I do not envy them at all. One time in South Africa, I I I Rabbi Shmuel Mofson is someone I admire and he knew a guy who ran a comedy club and I and I said to him, "Can we I didn't end up doing it because it just didn't work out, but I wanted to try it. Open mic night open mic night to the set. Like just do like, you know, my greatest bit that I know, you know, but it never panned out, but I wouldn't not my thing. Not my thing. >> But you also are as obviously a serious Torah personality, right? You give a daily Daf Yomi shiur. I'm not correct. What was the impetus for that? What made you want to give Daf Yomi's rigorous? It's hard. It's not always so easy. We're in the middle of a Nachos right now. Was that something that you always wanted to do? To whom do you give it? What is it geared to? Did you always want to go through Shas and this is kind of just like I'm putting it out there? So this is the this is the the evolution. Evolution started high school. High school is I went to DRS. I was a first year. What grade you was here? So he we were there together. He's a year below me, but we were there together and Rabbi Shmuel Kamenetzky um was a menahel. He's finishing Shas soon. Yeah, I'm sure he's done it more than once. I'm saying, but but Rabbi Kamenetzky, he is uh I'll I'll just say it again. Tremendous shout out to Rabbi Kamenetzky. Huge and He's going to be He's going to be upset at me cuz I've said this in many like many podcasts. I just went to Rabbi Kamenetzky, you shout out. Big fan of Rabbi Kamenetzky. >> impact on my life in a positive way, you know, he I wouldn't call him a macher, you know, I wouldn't call him a macher like personally. But he major impact. They took us to the Siyum Shas when we were ninth grade, tenth grade, whatever it was. Went to the Siyum Shas at the Nassau Coliseum or whatever it was. Remember thinking like, "Wow, this this is energy. Like this is like this is amazing. Maybe I'll do maybe I'll I'll learn Shas." I was 14 15 something like that. >> [snorts] >> Okay, seven and a half years later um I I uh somewhere else. And see my shas. And again, I should really start learning shas. Nothing doing. Fast forward 7 1/2 years later. I was in San Diego. And uh it was August 2nd, uh 2012. And and I said um maybe I should maybe start learning shas. And uh I was at a big Jeff Wolgel into shul in the back. And there was a guy there who's now a rabbi in LA. So, he was there. And uh I think his name was Stewart something. Is that a name? Could be. Anyway, so yeah yeah yeah he's a great guy. Rabbi Stewart. Yeah. He was I don't know what his name I'm I I think that's his name. He was in the back of the room. I said, "Do you want to do brochos with me? Want to learn uh brochos?" He said, "Sure." You know, and we sat down and did brochos. I was like I felt good. Rabbi Avraham Goldhar from Zichru fame, if you know what that is. >> Sure. Started Zichru then. Now, not this past cycle, the previous cycle. >> Right. And I started with him. Mhm. It fizzled out. Not me, the whole program fizzled out. That me, too. But that program fizzled out. It started again now and then it went very big. But I started with that. I got into it, whatever. We went back to the shul and I said, "Oh." Cuz we were just visiting San Diego. Back to the shul and I said, "Oh." And I started. The kids are in the Ooh, I forgot the most important thing to tell you about. When I was uh the second time, high school, 7th grade. I was 14, 21, 22. I was in Montreal, Canada. A guy named David Rothschild. And he lives in D'Vimy. And he started a bunch of Daf Yomis over the last 40 years. He just started them everywhere. He said to me, comes before davening, he said, "Do you want to give the daf shiur today?" I think I was 20 or 21, whatever. I was like, "Absolutely not." Like absolutely not. And he's like, "Okay." And walked away. The whole shachris, I couldn't stop why did I say that? Why did I say yes? Maybe I should do it. Nah. Maybe I shouldn't have said yes cuz I didn't know. Maybe I should. You know, I'm back and forth. I'm not I'm totally not davening. But I you know, classic. But I'm thinking, why did I say no? >> [snorts] >> And at the end of davening I I built up the courage. I'm going to do it. I went over to him and I said, "Rabbi." He said, "Yeah." I said, "I'll do it." He said, "Great. Have a good day." Now, I was waiting for like the fireworks. Then I just over here You just challenged my life. And and and he's like, I think it was Horeos daf hey or something. I was like, "What is a Horeos?" I never even heard the word. And even though I had learned Mishnais. Okay, so you see how much I was paying attention. But point is I I went ahead. I spent 12 hours. Cuz he told me it's 40 minutes, 40 minutes, 40 minutes here. So I I I did it. 2 hours, an hour and a half. I got it down to 40 minutes. I gave it. That was like the book. 7 years later I saw the daf. I did it with a chavrusah. We went through the whole cycle. And uh what I couldn't do with my chavrusah, I I looked online. I found Rabbi Rosner, Rav Sholom Rosner. And and I loved his shiur. Rabbi Sholom Rosner, tremendous shout out. Shkoyach. Thank you so much. I called you and told you this. I don't even remember who I am. But I do want to say I did have tightness because I didn't like the rate. I loved the rate. I never regretted listening to his rate. I just didn't want it. I just wanted like let's go tachlis. Gemara, Rashi, weiter. So at the end of that cycle, I'm like, "Okay, what am I going to do now?" Like I finished I finished the Shas. Say we finished Shas. We did it. Okay, great. So I said to my wife, "Yeah, I don't think I'm going to continue." She said, "You have to continue." I said, "Why?" She said, "This is the first time you ever did anything in your life consistently." I was like, "Oh, thanks, you know." You see, she said I'm so amazing, successful. You know? First I've ever I said, "Okay, I'll continue." I never told her I'm giving the daf. I didn't plan on giving the daf. I just I did Brachas daf bais. And when I did it, I said, "You know what? Maybe I'll record myself. Just for me. I'll record it." I called it review of the daf. It's fast and you see but review of the daf. If you go on TorahAnytime, check out daf bais amud aleph, daf bais, and you'll see it goes Maybe it's I'm just I'm just ripping. I'm ripping just for me. It was you know, at least the Vance gave the 8-minute half. I had the 8-minute half, but it was managed to half, you know, the wrestling started with this thing fight. The point is okay and then I'm like, you know what? I was still starting. Maybe I should start doing it and I started doing it and I never told my wife cuz she's like another thing like where you're not going to be now. Whatever. That's [snorts] how it all started. >> Yeah, so what happens with I started I started I did it and it was amazing. Brochos. I think it was Nuntas. I was in Connecticut. And I got a phone call from someone. I didn't upload it. But you weren't giving you were just uploading it. Yeah, I just do it to myself myself. No sharing or whatever. Give myself whatever I want whatever I want. In the car and the Someone asked me, do you like do you ever you shift are you in different places like when you give the death? I was like very often like I'll do half and I'll pause it and then I'll do it 6 hours later because I he's don't have time. Like you'll hear birds and then you'll hear my car starting. Today you'll hear my wife saying, is that my sitter? >> [laughter] >> I was like, I'm still recording. She's like, I was like, I don't have a sitter. And I kept going. I'm not editing it. But that's where it came from. So this guy Nuntes calls me up. He's like, what's the deal? So so what do you mean? He said, are you are you in or you out? I was like, what do you mean? He said, I'm listening to your death, but you didn't you didn't post. I said, someone's listening to my death? He's like, yeah. I was like, okay, I'm in. And since Brochos Nuntes I think I missed one death. What was it was in what's this fine because of shalom and whatever. But I think you death test is a murder murder murder murder shalom death test. But actually all of it is murder. If you ever learn your shalom it's just Dicklin shalom and death you'd sign finally speaks up and says I never knew shalom. What do you know I don't know where they to it. It's Okay, listen I apologize. You have to know what I'm talking about to know what I'm talking about. But but but I'll just tell you, there's a thick and thin which is I don't call it Rashi, but it's you know, the parish that most people go to. It's like 40 of parish, but that's like the main one. It says where we are now. So anyway, so um he says on daf you Zion or daf Zion at the very end. And if you're wondering why do we start a topic and then mid-sentence drop it, start a whole new topic, and never come back to it? I'm like, yeah, I've been wondering that for for 16 blood, you know, because like he the first time you learn it's like so how are you? Blue. Blue. Blue? What about the how are you? And and I'm waiting for the guy to come back. He never comes back. He says, you want to know because you are showing me the ma'aseh. So anything that's not the ma'aseh, we just drop and we walk away. I was like, wow. So anyway, point is back to the discussion is that that's how it all started, that's how whatever it is. And then once and then once I got started with them, people listening is like, you know, this is great. And and and I if you say last cycle I never was was consistent, it wasn't. I learned it with the There days I missed and I had to catch up. But this cycle, I never missed a daf. I can't cuz there's people listening. I have at least four people I think. My mother is still I think is still listening. She's saying you're the greatest. And my father is like it's Shacharis. And there's some other guy who said I'm a head. That's great. Two people laughed at my daf yesterday. But anyway, whatever it is, what I'm not watching. But uh it's great. But but the ma'aseh is for me a chiyuv. What was it about Rabbi Kamenetsky? It sounds like you've spoken about this before, but you look back at your at your childhood and and parts of your upbringing you've [snorts] kept, parts maybe you've evolved in different ways, maybe hashkafically or what community you identify with. But Rabbi Kamenetsky obviously left a huge impression. Yeah. So what was it about Rabbi Kamenetsky? If you look back at DRS Rabbi Kamenetsky, your youth, what what did you take with you that you hope your children will get to, even if they're being raised I don't want to make any assumptions but it seems maybe >> However they're being raised a little bit differently. No, a different It it sounded silly even so different but but in the core of what it is. But the thing that sticks out for me is I I can't I can't Ev- everyone has different experiences and people say like I hear it and all of a sudden they say different things. So you know, I'm sure that there's a lot of students. I was the first year so there was only 36 students in the first year. Only 14 graduated but only 36. I wasn't one of the 14. But the but the point is that I went early admissions so I was asked to leave whatever difference But Rebbi Kamenetzky for me was straight up Rebbi Dovid Kaminetzky. He worked with me in areas that were challenging for me instead of ranting, he parented. He said, "Okay, let's see where this kid is. Let's guide him in the way what he needs." Uh the most mundane example which he's heard before and all you're again from your listeners possibly is that there was a rule that you [snorts] had to tuck your shirt in. You had to have your shirt tucked in. There were there were that many rules. The school just started. You know, but like yeah, I think that was the only rule. You know, you had to have like your shirt tucked in and whatever. I couldn't do it for life me. Like I couldn't do it. Like I'm not tucking my shirt in. It's not happening. And like that oh suspended. The things we get suspended for. Like like that's what you're suspending me for? You know, but the point is he gave me a pass. I was the only kid in the school that had a pass. I did not have to have my shirt tucked in. Stupid. But for 13-year-old you you're coming towards me. Like you're willing to hear me and you're willing to work with me. Okay, I'm whatever you need. I'm here for you. Mhm. So you felt that even then? Yeah, that was huge. I did it with a lot of Whenever I felt the teacher was trying to control me it didn't go well. Whatever I felt the teacher cared about me I'm I'm I'll do whatever >> theme with your mother and Rebbi Kamenetzky. Meaning somebody has my back, someone supports me, someone sees me, cares about me. >> Yeah. But that's also isn't there a sort of a dangerous slope the other way? Like what if the person says, you know, it's a rule here you can't do drugs. I want to do drugs and I want to be the exception. I want to be the exception to the rule. I I would I would >> We have interviewed my colleague, by the way, who would be okay with that. Yeah, I mean Yeah, I I I yes I I I I think I know you're talking about, but I I I would I would personally say that uh I think that maybe it depends on the kid and maybe it depends on the on whatever. Perhaps both of them were able to see that that's not what I'm going to do. Uh and how that a lot of probably came from my father, by the way. It's cuz uh I don't know again, I don't know if this is okay to say, but you know, this is probably not okay at all. This is probably something I'm not allowed to say anywhere. It's more clicky. >> ever. I'm not sure if I can ever say this to anyone. When I was a kid, my father told my brother and I we were learning my uh your brother's one year 364 days older than me. He calls me a second birthday present he's been trying to return for the last 40 plus years. So, anyway, I love him, too. >> [laughter] >> So, anyway, my father, when we were very young, said to us, very young, it's like, if you ever want to do drugs, if you ever want to drink alcohol, come to me and I'll get it for you. And I was like, you know, with my pacifier, what? You know, I had no idea. I think I remember it like when I was like six, five or six. And he would repeat it. If you want to smoke, if you want to do drugs, you want to drink. I'm like, what's drugs? Like, what does that even [snorts] mean, you know? Uh as I got older and I had friends that were getting involved in extracurricular activities and they were not yet again decriminalized or whatever word they are today. I never did it. Never did it. It wasn't a rebellion. My father said you could do it. Just come to me, I'll get you something clean. Why would you go for something laced, you know? I'm like, how do you know people? Aba. I never asked that question. But, the point is that I guess you put those things together. Is there a danger involved with giving them everything? Of course there's a danger. And it's not that we can always going to everything. Right. It's just like something like okay >> knew you. He knew it mattered to you. You're not taking you shouldn't you still have to come to school. You still have to I didn't really come but you still you still have to you know you can't burn the building down and you can't like beat people up and whatever it is. And you know it's like if you felt like you know you're giving me something I'm yeah I said You mean small talk you mean in my class right? So it was like I think that's where it's I would say it is dangerous. You have to know the kid and you have Is it disruptive when parents come in the middle of the year in Israel kids are like in a groove and parents come? Is it good parents should be there they should they should help they should support they should engage or stay away we're in a groove we've got some momentum. >> [snorts] >> What do you think about that? I I think that there was someone you recently had on perhaps that discussed that but I think that the style of of Yeshiva is a little different than the style that I'm in where I don't I don't see it to be uh personally but >> disruptive where you are. I I'm not as >> It's interesting because the comments on that interview you know some people were like absolutely 100% totally disruptive kids are immersive the whole idea is they have some distance parents should not come Right. And others were And and another person wrote this comment that said um you know yeah rebbeim are trying to rip control from parents trying to keep parents on the outs. This is part of the whole like Yeshiva mentality of like rebbeim know parents don't know stay away parents. So you know there's a little strong reaction in both directions. I love it. I love that that >> Like like most things. I I yeah yeah exactly and I can't get one way or the other. When I teach in in in Aish I'm not teaching mainly in the Yeshiva. And I teach them very little more in like the other programs that are there so I don't see it as much. But the guys that I see there whatever it is I can't I I don't think I'm yeah. With the girls definitely I don't see it as a problem. I'm sure there's one or two that they make them homesick or whatever it is other things. Other topics whether it's the guys or the girls other things that you really want to talk about but you feel you can't that you have deep feelings strong feelings you think they need to hear but for whatever reason yeah you've got to tone it down because your position, because of your parnassa, because of your reputation, because of the school, yeshiva, the seminary. Maybe the kids are too fragile these days. They can't hear other things they're holding back from or no? >> And and that everything is recorded and you never know when something's going to go online and who's going to hear and it takes on a life of its >> I was just actually uh my daughter's birthday and we took her out and she's just home from seminary now and talking about what's her favorite class. And and and it came up some from another yeshiva, a certain rebbe who you know got out a rant or a shmooze he gave that began with no one's recording this, right? You know, and and I know there are yeshivas, certain yeshivas that are famous for you know, certain night of the week that you know can bring a recorder and they're going to go off and you know, it almost feels to me like I don't even know if they feel that strongly about it as they sound. They just know that that's going to get everybody calm and it's going to make them excited and it's going to be the getting them engaged. So, are there things you wish that you could be like no recorders, nobody report that we spoke about this. Here's what I really want to talk about. Or do you feel the freedom or license to talk about anything? Uh probably to a fault I speak out basically everything. The only times I'll say no recorders is if I feel that I need the people in the room. Not not that I not that I have a problem saying it. I'll say it anywhere. I just need you to come over to me and tell me your problem. Cuz if I if I go and I say a hot take on something, if I go and I say something that's a hot take and then somebody you know, takes that and because I said that then they're like, well, this person uh when if they would have just come to me and tell me that so then one of two things will happen. Either you'll show me my mistake and I'll agree to you. One of three things. The second one is I'll I'll argue with you and then go to bat, you know, yell at me. Or you misunderstood me or maybe it wasn't clear or this is what I agree with you in that. So, there are so many things that we're actually agreeing on that it's like But do you know when you're saying something you're like, oh, this is this is going to catch on? >> Oh, for sure. Yes, it's it's you know, it's the The the most controversial discussions that I have when the girls say, we want to learn something controversial. They all love like doing that. They they just want to stoke the coals of controversy. The most controversial thing would be modern orthodoxy, hands down, most controversial topic that I'll give. Even though, and when I have girls, let's say like, "Do you mind if my parents come to class?" I say, "Do I mind? I wish your parents would come to class. I wish all your parents would come to class. That'll be I I'd be thrilled to have conversation with your parents. Come to class and sit there as 45-year-olds, 50-year-olds doing like this. Being upset, disagreeing with everything, but not speaking up cuz these kids want to come after me and then be mad at me. Let's fight about it. Let's talk about it. Let's discuss it. That's what I meant. Let's discuss it. Let's talk it out. Um it's a it's it's I know >> Well, what's controversial? Why is that controversial? I I we we actually have to wind down mostly cuz I want your son to be talking to you, but Oh. Um >> Yeah. First of all, how do you define modern orthodox? Is modern orthodox what we used to call Yeshivish? Exactly. >> orthodox swimming on Shabbos? Is modern orthodox eating out? Is modern orthodox from Shechter? Is modern orthodox How how do we define modern orthodox? >> That's that's a great question. >> modern orthodox relative to other communities in Israel? Like, how do we define it? Great. So, I start my class by asking, "Just define for me what it is." There's always that one girl who's like, "Well, Rabbi Shamshon Raphael Hirsch in the 1845 in Germany came along and said, 'Okay, thank you very much.'" I know that every There's always that one, you know. I call them Rambam. Like, I call them to go Rambam. Like, Rambam, excellent. We're going to come back to you. And then that's an actual shout-out to someone in particular. You know who you are. Um I don't know any of my students' names. I call them all Rifka. And then I have little things that are that remind me of them. Every single one of them. I have hundreds of them. Uh it's also a good deal for me. You're never coming for Shabbos. I'm not having one-on-ones with you. And your name is Rifka. And one girl is very mad at me and So, you're very close with all your students. Very close. Very very close. >> [snorts] >> Now, I happen I happen to still believe I am close with them, but in a classroom setting. Check yourself or you wreck yourself. I'm saying that the world today has gone cray-cray. And when I mashuga shuga loco loco, if you speak Spanish, but it's gone it's gone it's gone really crazy. And it's always been crazy. It's just now been blasted crazy out there. So like, all right, I'm not messing with this stuff. No way. Um when I say Rifka and the girls have your name, I'm like, "It's Zahava." We switch it. >> [laughter] >> I'm like, "There's one girl with Rifka Zahava." I said once in the 10 years ago it's like, "Miriam Zahava." I'm like, "I'm not talking to you." Are any girls insulted? Like, I know we're in the middle of like 17 subjects, but are there girls who are like, "You're supposed to be my teacher and and I'm invisible right now cuz you don't want to know my name, see me, know me. How am I supposed to learn from you?" Shout out to you, Rifka. This one Rifka got so mad at me. So mad at me. And there's a there's a little principal in one of the Jewish day schools like, "How dare you have a teacher who does that? It's disgusting." I was like, "Okay, this teacher never called me. Call me. Speak with me and I'll explain to you what's going on, why I'm doing this." This girl, whatever. This girl was so mad at me. At the end of the year, [clears throat] you know, you have a a girl that takes talks about every teacher. She chose me. Mhm. I was like, "Oh, no." So I went to the banquet, you know, cuz she saw and it it it it turned out very well. With Hashem, it was great. And again, she was very mad. We spoke it out, whatever it is, and we moved forward. I'm not a baby. >> but come back to this cuz it's important. There are there are a lot of young You're young, I'm young. We're still out there young. There are young men and women teaching a lot of seminaries. And there's an environment with like, "He's amazing. He's so cute. I love him. I love him." He was a girl's school and the first time he heard a student say to his wife, "Oh, your husband, I love him." He's like, "I'm out." He's Right. I think the wife said, "You're out." You're out. There's only one person that loves me and it's my wife. we'll talk about this. I I My wife was at a certain seminary, whichever one it was. And this happened. My wife saw this happen with a with a husband and wife and and said like, he goes, "I love your husband." And the woman said, "No. I love my husband." And like, he's out. If you want to be part of the chinuch in the beginning of the seminary year, like, your teachers are your teachers. You can admire, you can learn from them, but let's let's use our words carefully, let's use our emotions carefully, not only for the teachers. You know, teachers they get in trouble. I I think it's an excellent And it could be they do that. I I teach once a week. I'm not a whatever. I'm I'm there. I'm in. I'm out. They know me from my teaching, whatever it is. And and I'll answer questions. I'll answer questions for a long time. I'll stay in the classroom, someone's there, no problem, I'll do it. I'm I'm not making an official meeting. I'm not doing Someone says like, "Rebbi, can I meet with you? I want to talk about my I'm going to start dating. I want your advice." I'm going to and you'll No. I say I say do not meet with girls one-on-one. If you want, you can email me. You should know my wife sees all my emails. She really does. You're welcome to go ahead and you could uh Delete the email we sent to you. >> [laughter] >> Quick. Undo. You know, you got 30 seconds for that, right? But But the the point is that that yeah, for the mechanchim out there who whatever You got to protect them from you. You're making a big mistake. Listen, we have no one because they're big on the fact that every Yid is a neshama. He's very big on that. He He spoke about that. I mean, I overlapped with him for 3 years. And the last year he was sick, so it was really 2 years. And um And I've heard him say it and it's in the halls. You know, you got the The neshama's a neshama's a neshama. Okay, a guy who I'll call him an um an acquaintance of mine who who got involved in kiruv. And he was going out and he was involved with like campus into that kind of stuff. And he said he was saying, "Yeah, I meet with guys, I meet with girls." I was like, "Bro, like how could you meet with girls one-on-one on a college campus?" He says like he was like, "Well, it's not yichud, you know, it's not You might So So I said, "How could Well, go back. I said, "How could you go ahead and meet with" They go, "No, because they're a neshama." I said, "Bro, they're also a guf." >> [laughter] >> What? You have no They're like, "The neshama, you got to save every neshama. It's like Auschwitz and the trains. You got to pull people off the trains." And I get it. I I do get it. I get it. I get it. And maybe this is like I was coming from Torah So much so before I came to I was in Tomo like for 3 years before I came to Aish. Like it's I was coming from a very different whatever. I was like, "Yeah, you're out of your mind." And unfortunately, maiseh maiseh b'chulyo. Thank God I'm not b'chulyo, but I have I have someone else who I know who I spoke with, I said I said what With with you know with all due respect that means with no respect. You know what I'm saying? I said with with no respect. Um this particular fellow is is older than me and and I said How do you do that? Like I I don't meet with girls. How do you do it? He says no, it bounces whatever. And unfortunately things happened and and and it and it was bad and it was very very bad. And in a petropist and you got to check yourself and you be careful and Also shmear shmear shmear shmear and you know you got to back yourself also see but you got to back you got to back you got to Check it. You know what I'm saying? Check it cuz you're going to be in big The seminaries themselves don't it? Say it again. >> The seminaries themselves don't have rules. They don't sit down. >> be they don't have rules. >> There's no staff meeting before the year that says here are our rules, here are our parameters, here are the boundaries, here is the I I could just tell you that that over the last many years I've taught in a bunch of places. I was teaching somewhere and they wanted me to meet with people. I said I don't do it. I don't do it. They're like well are you crazy? What do you mean? Like obviously what I'm talking about this shuir and me like in Out of all the there's windows it's in public it's it's not a lock. You can come in there's cameras whatever you want to say all this stuff. I said no I like I just don't do it. They got so they're upset at me. I said okay so so fire me like I'm I'm Would you meet with two or three girls at a time? If two or three girls say we want to meet with you just the three of us talk about money issues, talk dating issues, talk whatever the three of us. Not a class that's 30 people we can't open up. There's two there's three. Would you do that? >> If the I don't know. I never had such a scenario. It usually when I do like shuir whatever it is if it's like 7 8 9 10 type of thing yeah I would do that cuz I look at it like a class type of thing. What? How do you go on to meet with her? I said I can't. She's like my cousin is here in Yeshiva. Can I bring him with me? And I said yeah you bring your cousin with you I'll sit with you in the lobby with your boy cousin who I know who he is. He knows what I'm whatever okay then we could do such a thing you know. But uh I'm much more I'm speaking loudly people around can hear what's going on and whatever it is and when I and you know that kind of stuff. >> Wait now it's come back to modern orthodoxy cuz So the first question >> Let's end with modern orthodoxy. Enough of that. We're clickbait enough. But the The but the the question that I asked the crowd is exactly that question. I stop asking can somebody just define for me what it is besides a Rambam Rambam besides Rambam Rifka the whole thing we just went on that road. Can you just tell me like what what is modest taxi? Oh I love it. I let them I let them go at each other. Let's go at it. Go at it. I'm just telling you the most common answer that I get from the kids themselves that are coming from I'll do let's say Boca coming from Teaneck coming from Five Towns coming from I see that's just you know I'm in Jersey coming from Atlanta coming from Chicago coming from you know mostly you know the the Jewish people like you know populated places type of things. The number one answer I get is PAC P A C pick and choose. That it means picking and choosing. Of course it's a spectrum. There's of course it's a spectrum. You have somebody you'll have a it's easier to see with women with men it's much easier to see you know what I'm saying cuz you look at a guy and say what puts on kippah like you don't know what's going on. But you'll you'll have a woman who doesn't cover her hair and and wears pants and but will never drive on Shabbos and calls herself modern orthodox. You have someone over here a woman who wears only shaytels only skirts and calls herself modern orthodox. Say like I I maybe I'm missing something this doesn't look the same to what? Like what's the >> But couldn't you argue that you'll have a Haredi Israel and Yeshivish America are very different but you could have a Yeshivish woman in America who is Uber Tzanua and Kalacha and you'll have a Yeshivish woman in America who's Saran Wrap I'm using your words not mine by the way but right who who's dressed like that and she's also Yeshivish. I would say >> She could be flirtatious she could be provocative in her dress and her speech and she's Yeshivish. So the same difference or spectrum that you could have in modern you could have in Yeshivish. So I I don't I I don't >> Or maybe she looks the part but she speaks endless lashon hara she's incredibly materialistic she's but she's Yeshivish. The the this Come to class we'll talk about it. Okay why don't we leave it there? Part two for part two is Rifka. This opens up a whole a whole sach you know but uh >> be in Israel. We should visit her with God. >> But I but I I have to make one thing very clear. I have to make something very clear for uh you know, for those who are not going to listen to part two cuz I know what you hate what I said so far. But I just want to be clear. I'm very big on this. Very very big on this. And I am never ever, God forbid, speaking negatively about any individual person, ever. I'm not speaking to anybody. Am I speaking out strongly about certain ideologies? Absolutely. What are those ideologies? Okay, we have to talk about that another time. Maybe we can get into what they are. Mhm. Wow. That's I don't think we've ever ended an episode like that cuz I have so many follow-up questions. What a cliffhanger. Yeah. Well, listen, I come to Florida all the time, you know. Last time I was here was 4 years ago. So, like There we go. So, then next time Rav Gav, thank you for uh spending your time with us. It was really fantastic. Thank you so much. It was really great. >> while you were speaking Yeah. Lots to think about. Lots to Lots to digest. Lots to process. Lots to unpack. Lots to think about. But thank you. Thank you for going behind the Bema with us. >> Thank you. It's for all that you do. All right. Thank you so much. >> [laughter] >> Thank you for listening [music] to Behind the Bema. If you enjoyed the show, please subscribe, rate, and review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcast. We'll see you next week for another peek behind the Bema.