Rabbi Guy Matalon - The Kuzari - Part 14

so we continue in the kusari it tells us the following so we talked about remember corporeality the king says to the rabbi hey rabbi now i understand why you people always refer to god in physical ways physical descriptions because you experienced him physically and therefore you envision him physically like having a body and even though it contradicts reason i guess you don't really have a choice because that's what you experienced so the rabbi says what are you talking about how could you say this god forbid the torah could never go against reason and he says that since the judaism the torah teaches us to accept the existence of non-corporeal entities like the human soul which we started talking about that last time since we are talking about a non-physical entity called the soul we don't really have a problem of believing that god is not a body that's what he says and then he says that a fortiori that's the type of argument that it's used that we don't describe god in physical ways that is we don't describe our soul in physical ways and the soul is much and god is much greater than our soul so call she can right we are going to describe god in non-physical ways so he says we are not going to ever doubt the experience that we had on our sinai that was real so and we still can't really explain to you how is it that god's voice manifested itself such that it entered our ears like we heard it it wasn't a vision it wasn't we were in some sort of a daze no they heard the voice of god he says i don't know how to explain it but i'm not going to deny it because the torah won't allow me to deny and he says and then we're not going to deny either because since we can't explain how god created everything in the universe out of nothing he says yeah i don't know how to explain how god did it but he did it and i accept it why do i accept it because the torah tells me so and why do i accept the torah anybody because my friends because the jewish people experienced the god who gave them the torah yeah that's how it worked maybe we didn't experience them i didn't experience them okay but you came fake correct there isn't a bro it's not the chain is unbroken right that's the whole point of the cruiser of this the way that he's explaining that when you had this experience if we didn't have this experience you couldn't fake it you can't just make it up and start yeah and why would generation generation hang on like who does that to the kids you know no if they knew it was no no no sorry guys this is wrong christians and muslims are not passing down a lie because they believe it's a lie they're passing down a tradition that which they believe to be true so can we say that about ourselves what what you're that you're passing a tradition that you believe to be true there's a difference between their tradition and our tradition which was explained earlier correct that's the difference but it's not that christians believe that it's a complete lie but they just tell their kids oh santa's gonna come and leave some cookies for him but they do do that that's why i use that example you have to always use the best example so that somebody would go but they do this they don't have co they don't leave cookies for santa the point is i think you made a good point why do they pace down pass down the lie they don't believe they're passing down the line they believe they are passing down the truth so did muhammad believe he was passing down the truth maybe was there actually a person have his birth certificate you have his photo from the driver's license you have his marriage uh you know yeah the whole thing you know he's got his uh aliyah card that he made aliyah what sort of evidence do you want they argue that he does he did i thought the quran said that he only had a dream that he ascended to heaven on a horse so they said he actually did that actually happened but you've read the quran right yeah but that's a separate class and it's not held in this yeshiva is it in the madrasa madarasa is a muslim yeshiva so he says it's not a question that god doesn't have the ability it's just we can't explain how we create things out of nothing we can't explain we can't explain how he created a voice that people heard but it doesn't mean that he can't it tells us that god created the tablets right he created the tablets and wrote them with engravings because the letters were engraved so how did he do that like actually or that's the question how did you do it just happened that's what he says he says in the way that god created the heavens and the stars and everything else through speech so when god ones when he wanted the luchos the tablets to appear to exist then boom it happened and it created exactly the way he wanted it wasn't like you know a quarter of an inch off that it doesn't fit through you know like you you you do your own building project and you're like a quarter of an inch like come on never happened to you one eighth of an inch like oh come on bend okay so and the writings were engraved to have the ten commandments in the same when he says that god split the sea and they were created as what as two walls on each side one to the left and one to the right and then they were paths right there were 12 paths for each tribe they had their own path how do they know what tribe they belonged to back then everybody knew it was kind of like your last name where they were like listen today today everybody knows who's a colleague right if your name is cohen you know you're going or not the people who are going to know that they're gone people are levies no they're ladies so we usually go by default if you don't know if you're a coordinator you're not but back then the time of egypt they all knew they who they belong to it wasn't that far from you know the generations i'm about four generations i mean i know my great-grandfather four generations from the from the actual sons of yankov how could you get that many people in fourth generation did you not read the tarot no well you'll get to shmo just stick around in the yeshiva you'll get to exodus and you'll see it explains that they came to egypt 70 and they left two and a half million they're what rabbits no there was just no cable oh for sure it says they gave birth i think every seven months there's somebody there's some sort of uh uh there's some no maybe that's that's no that's in the yaakov sons they were born every seven months or something like that there's a whole husband but it says rashi says that they gave birth to five kids at a time that was uh you know so he is simply the the rabbi is giving instances of the torah where it sounds like god performed something physically and he says no he didn't whatever although there is a physical manifestation of the act splitting of the sea right there's an act and then you have to see voice all these things it doesn't imply that god has a body god does these things through speech what does that mean through speech does he have a tongue what it just is just this boom it's kind of like the clap on clapper you know like and booming lights on but no clamping i don't know about that analogy but you know have you ever heard that there's a no yeah i get it but without the clapping light boom but there's no understanding basically that turns on the lights no it's pretty disturbing okay now listen to this and the light the once they crossed the sea the floor the seabed was dry and straight it wasn't muddy like they were walking like their shoes you know i lost my sandals you know no everything was they kept walking with no problem and he says that the all the things that we attribute to god such as the splitting of the seed the building and the the preparing that we talk about that god does god does it without any tools without intermediaries he just does it they does it according to his will and in the same way he created the air the the sound waves that we hear god speaking same way that he split the sea or created out of nothing he could create sound waves do we know like because how we understand sound as a person when someone speaks is either masculine or feminine you have the exact words of what god said how did it sound that it was like both masculine and family at the same time or you have what or what his voice sounded like a girl or what the what the vibrations like what like i don't know i am assuming it was big bass low bass you know baritone oh you know i don't think so no but because that's what we're supposed to do hypersonic no hypersonic means you can't hear it no he says the the air came so the sound waves hit the ear in a way that would sound like letters sounds of letters just as the ocean was split there was vibrations in the air no the split no that would mean it just turned it was like here it goes i mean you crazy all over the assemblies yeah it's no problem right thank you you got it aaron you get it i get it as much as i can so says the king he says okay now you explain it to me and then he says he says the rabbi says the following he says what i'm telling you with regard to the creation of sound waves he says i'm not telling you this this is an absolute that it was the only way it happened he says i don't know it might be much deeper than i could imagine of how it actually took place like he's saying i don't really know how and he said in the beginning if you ask me is it possible for god to create sound waves yes if aaron says well could it have happened as some sort of internal whatever it could be he's not saying that was one way that you have to but he says it's not something that god cannot do there's nothing like that really you want to think again try it can he create a stone which he cannot lift fine you don't like that one fine can god learn something new no but come on wait you said god can't there's nothing god can't do you just said you can't but technically there's nothing that's not true excellent i just gave you a question accepted but that's giving god uh weight he then manipulates the stone no that's a viable question correct that's the end he's not invisible what does that have to do with anything so he can't lift he's got even he can lift whatever he wants can he create a round triangle that's something that is nonsense that you don't really answer whether you can or can everything but there are some things that god cannot do because he's perfect he can't learn something new can god forget no does that mean that he's there's a problem with him then no it's because god is perfect he there's certain things and because of his perfection it doesn't to forget he matter i'll be merciless and i'll forget your sins i'll forget you define wrong it doesn't ask you yes doesn't mean you forget it means forgiveness right what we learn from this is that whoever saw this experience with god was that he experienced god without any intermediary he saw god experience god there you see god explain it's not see what's the difference see as you see with your eyes it's not a physical form it says in the torah that they saw the voice the sounds oh yeah that's another thing so how did they see it so you could see that seeing is experiencing that's what they're talking about right when you say you see but you can't give god physical attributes correct so then you didn't see god you saw it you experienced god but that is in the sense of seeing but it's not really correct watching right so he says whoever saw that experience this experience god without any intermediaries and these experiences of the splitting of the sea the creation of the luchot and god on har sinai says the kusari are similar to the creation first creation right creation out of nothing and you should believe that what the torah is telling you well the world was created and was created by god in the same way that he created the luchos and the man and all those things he created the universe and anybody who listens to the philosophers and all these other positions should have his doubts removed so the kuzuri says wait wait wait wait buddy don't get too don't run too far with your descriptions of this experience because we all know that the jewish people in the desert after experiencing god what did they do they built a golden calf you're telling me that you don't have a physical image of god and that you experience god in non-corporeal ways and that god could do this the same way that he created the universe great fun and then you tell me that you see you don't have to listen to the philosophers but then the king says to him but what are you talking about they created an idol and pray to it they created an idol and prayed to it so what do you say what can you repeat what i said can i repeat what i said yes i can but i want to see if others he's asking how could they do that how could they bow down to or make it right if they had an experience of god that is non-corporeal and has this amazing experience and that your religion teaches you that god is not a body and they don't experience them as a body and all these terms of that are really just metaphors then what are you telling me from before why do they do the idol obviously you're wrong that doesn't prove them wrong okay good that's not a good argument it's not a good argument looks like a good argument to me why is it a bad argument because people make mistakes time out time time out time out to the doctor and say hey what part of timeout is you're answering the wrong question if you would have stopped 10 minutes ago you would have seen time out you said that this is a bad argument i asked you how is it a bad argument and you gave me no you gave me the answer to what the king is saying show me how the the argument that the king is using is bad but that that is a problem because he's not he didn't read the torah remember the kuzer he's just saying i know that after this experience they all build an idol and pray to it you want to say well they made it on idol but the idol didn't really represent god i'm sorry did they have a commandment not to build idols yes did they build an idol were they dancing and praying around the idol yeah so what do you want from me what they already had remember moses came and he said i have these 10 commandments and he smashed them 15. that's something else i don't know that it's such a bad argument i don't see where the problem is no it's it's a question we asked too how could they do such a thing right so the question is what's the answer so i don't need an analogy for the answer because we have the kuzuri we can see what he says if you don't like it then we can come up with europe and we can write your book yes um we as human beings need something physical are you trying to give an answer yes why don't you see what his answer is before you give me some uh you know grumpy answer that may work may not work tough love buddy here's what he says he says the sin that they did is in relation to their greatness the greater a person is the greater are his sin so what does he say what's he saying to the king right here the greater their potential to sin or the greater their sin their sin he's saying because they sin they had greater potential no because they were the highest at such a high level they felt they're such a deep they right they were such duiling in their in their spiritual level that whatever they did on that level is a very grave sin the greater you are the greater your yetzerhara is you've heard that no but they actually did it yeah so it's not potential they're sin they sinned so what is he saying to the king essentially he's telling the king you're right you're right they did a grave sin so he says okay is there a greater sin than this that is after this type of sin is there any moral quality that has been preserved ask the king like okay they have a great sin is there anything more grievous than the grievous than this the answer should be no we'll stop here for a minute cliffhanger you