IFS & Tanya: Dr. Richard Schwartz & Rabbi YY Jacobson

the yeshiva.net [Music] hello rev why why hello good afternoon okay I think we're I think we're all here and I think we're going to be ready to go Dr Schwarz are you there yeah I am now there you go okay hi Dr Schwarz meet rev YY meet TOA good afternoon Dr Schwarz it's an honor to be with you honor to be with all of you honor to be on this thank you program with you okay I'm gonna just begin with a brief introduction and then then we're going to go into it uh we got people signing on still so that's great but we're going to go ahead and start welcome everybody and thank you again for joining us today again my name is yter I'm co-founder in executive director of fresh start and it's an honor and close for us to host this webinar bringing together Jews from all different backgrounds and all over the world into one place especially in times like these when Fresh Start open a few years ago our goal was to provide services and programming to help clausell heal from the past experiences including childhood abuse trauma and neglect but here we are today the traumas in the present and the current events are causing many of us to feel anxiety fear uh both in ourselves and our children so we hope this webinar series will provide all of us with tips and tools hearing from a variety of Experts of how to manage ourselves and our families during these difficult times um to learn more about Fresh Start please visit us at Jewish fr.com I would like to thank our Anonymous sponsor who has graciously sponsored this webinar series Le nishas denil bener Rafal blea Mary yud yosf hen and in honor of Soko Alex two true pillars of the Detroit Community joining us today we have once again this chist he of ay who needs no introduction uh we are also joined by Mrs Tova corn co-founder and program director of fresh start and of course a true honor to welcome Dr Richard Schwarz of ifs fame um you're a hero and you're a folk Heroes many communities including ours Dr Schwarz is The Mastermind behind the development of the is s modality also known as internal family system helping survivors heal from trauma and live their best life he is also the author of no bad parts uh a book on internal family system which was a great read we are looking forward to this discussion um I do want to say if anybody has questions please do post them in the Q&A we'll do our best to get to it and um with that being said as always Rabbi y why perhaps lead off this discussion and we look forward to hearing where this goes thank you very much it's an honor and pleasure to be here with all of you and of course with uh Dr Richard Schwarz from ifs the founder of ifs or the conceiver of ifs I should say and you know I'll get straight to the point obviously ifs struck a very deep chord I think in many people like myself and my community and I'll tell you why when I was reading your book no B parts and some other literature about the ifs and hearing from therapists who are practicing it and so forth it really struck me because so many of the ideas resonated in a powerful way and I'll tell you why I'm part of a tradition of uh the cidic spiritual cabalistic mystical tradition of Judaism which has an enormous amount of literature on psychology probably one of the most seminal works is a book known as Tanya written by the founder of ofab ra of leadi in the 1700s a whole book about the chemistry of the human being and there he has a line and when I read in the introduction to no bad parts Dr Schwarz saying most people and philosophers and psychologist understood that we have what you called a mono brain and you learned through all of your experience that we're not made of one brain were made of many many different parts and then it struck me because there's a chapter in the Tanya from the 1700s by A Great Master the alter re knowing in chapter 28 he says one of the greatest mistakes of people he says is in middle of meditation in middle of spiritual connection to their soul to God they're suddenly experiencing very negative thoughts maybe even promiscuous and horrible and disgusting thoughts and they delegitimize their genuiness and he says it's a mistake because it's based on an erroneous philosophy that we have one Soul we have one engine we have one Consciousness and therefore I must be a fraud and a fake and a phony and a liar and and they just quit and he says you have to understand that you're made up of different parts it's the other way it's the other way around the moment you're touching your innocent Soul the other parts feel this is what he says they have to come and attack because he says in an arm wrestle when the other person feels defeated they muster all their strength what you call Firefighters protectors vages so when I was reading that I was like oh OMG that was that was that was a very very powerful Epiphany to be able to see that that juxtoposition that relationship to understand that dimension of the human being the second thing that struck me in no bad parts and in the philosophy of ifs is the idea that underneath all the protectors and underneath all the managers and firefighters and underneath all of what going on and some of it may be pretty you know nasty garbage there is a soul or a self what you call the self that remains untarnished and and and remains creative and curious and comp passionate and caring and in the Jewish tradition it would be uh a Divine infinite presence that keeps us linked to the source of all life to the source of all all Consciousness in which there's always Clarity in which there's always love and light and empowerment and confidence and no trauma in the world and abuse can tarnish us on that level it just may be and this is a word literally they use in in in hundreds of years in the cabala it just may be an exile that's the word constantly used in fact the concept of Exile and Judaism is collective National and also very very very personal that was a second very powerful point the idea that you know somebody may have been molested and abused and grew up in a dysfunctional environment with with horrific consequences that we need not explain to many people in this audience who went to Fresh Start for that type of healing but nonetheless nothing can ever ever damage damage damage that Soul damage that Soul because nobody can destroy God nobody can destroy the god that's inside of view the third component that I found so powerful was that even the toxic Parts in us are not inherently evil at their core even if the manifestation can be really really ugly but really deep down we're capable of transformation those are three three powerful points the idea that were made up of many parts the idea that throughout everything there is a core that remains absolutely pure sacred holy empowered and and excited and joyful because it's connected to the source of creation it's almost like the the the backend program of the Creator so it has this Clarity and number three that we're capable of transformation here I see very very deep uh um similarities between what is really an ancient literature but but you gave language and techniques for for a contemporary world so I want I want I want to ask I want to ask you I know you say that you came around this not from an epiphany one night where the Prophet Elijah popped into Richard schwarz's head and said I'm going to reveal to you Secrets but it came from experience with over years and years with families and and clients and and failure and things that didn't work but I'm wondering was there a moment of an epiphany where you like you know came across this type of experience and does your Jewish background which I know you have Jewish background did it contribute to it or maybe not I'm just trying to understand you know uh to learn more about your own evolutionary uh process in this entire experience sure so first let me say how um moved I am that that you get ifs at such a deep level Rabbi and um I wasn't aware what was the name of the book Tanya Tanya it's a book that was published in t 1798 in in Lithuania in bellarus there's a famous kadic movement in the Jewish World he's the founder of it 1700s he was a student of the Magid of the b b is known as the founder of theic spiritual movement which basically focused on understanding the spiritual metaphysical Theology of Judaism and making it relevant so this is one of the major Works in that school of of Jewish spiritual thought Dr Schwarz I will I will get a copy of that in English to Amanda oh that would be fantastic for you but when you wrote about that Mona brain you write about that Mona brain in your intro right don't you like the mistake I'm like I read this before where did I see it I'm like Oh chapter 28 of [Laughter] Tanya anyway go ahead sorry yeah you know uh it was never uh consciously from my Jewish lineage but no doubt that was in there somewhere um that it emerged that way and so yeah earlier you said I was the developer I think of ifs but really I feel like I'm the discoverer cuz I there there wasn't one big Epiphany it was more uh wow this is interesting let's let's try this technique with that and see what happens and so it was mainly through trial and error uh with lots of error that a lot of these ideas emerged and um you know I had heard about a couple other psychotherapies that talked a lot about the mind having subpersonalities and uh so I wasn't that wasn't a totally new idea to me but I was amazed as I as I listened to them more carefully to learn some of the things you just said that they aren't what they seem that they're forced into these roles they don't like that they deserve to be listened to and and actually even the ones that have caused all kinds of trouble in your life deserve to be appreciated for at least trying to to help you and to to protect you and and then I learned more about how they're all Frozen in the past in traumas and they carry these extreme beliefs and emotions so it was each of those was an epiphany basically and then the big Epiphany came when in moving getting parts to separate uh I encountered this other person inside of everybody that we now call the self with the capital S and uh you know that was huge because I I'd been trained in something called attachment Theory yeah that said to have any of those qualities Balby Su Johnson John B yeah yeah that to have any of those the those c-word qualities you had to have gotten them from a relationship so if you didn't get good parenting you you were out of luck or if you until you got it from a therapist or you got it from your spouse or someplace it's not in you and I was working with people that had horrible horrible childhoods and yet just by getting some of these parts to open space there it was so that was the I'd say the biggest epiphany and that you know is is still it's still amazing as I continue to do the work just to see that happen over and over wow so that's very powerful what you're saying is that if attachment theory was just taken on its own there should be no explanation to the Inner Light that every person possesses despite being abandoned at such a young age emotionally so it's a testimony I don't know if you know Richard but in Judaism the opening prayer every every day the first thing after we wash our hands in the morning there's a prayer we say in Hebrew means my God the soul that you have imbued Within Me remains pure and filled with infinite life infinite light infinite light and it's the opening of the day it's like you have to start of the day knowing that my core is just not damaged it's not damaged and I now I have a choice to live in that space so that's that's a very powerful Epiphany I think I think it's just important to emphasize just tell me if if you agree that our attachments at the youngest age is are so critically important your point is just that even if I haven't had it it's not hopeless that's exactly right so I love most aspects of attachment Theory and and believe in them and and how you are treated as a as a child has a huge influence on these parts and how they and and the burdens they carry and where they're frozen in time and they you know in absence of good parenting you're going to run your life from these parts there's not you're not going to have much access to what we're calling the self um so all of that as all those aspects of attachment Theory I find to be quite accurate the only difference is you're you're not screwed you know you you got this in you it's just covered over can we can we can we take a quick moment right by why why and doctor and just back up for a minute and maybe doctor you can give us a short for everybody on this call those who are new to IFS just give a quick once over so because revi why why you are like Miles Ahead you're already connecting the dots and we'll get there in a minute but let's just give the foundation of what ifs is sure yeah sorry that I bypassed anybody's Parts I didn't mean to so as Rabbi ww says um the basic assumption is that everybody is a multiple personality not in the sense that we have that disorder but in the sense that we all have these what other systems call subpersonalities that the mind isn't naturally unitary it actually is quite multiple and that that's a good thing that they're they're there to help us in our life that they all have different qualities and resources uh that are are quite valuable to us so that's the way we come into the world but through the kind of bad parenting we've been talking about or traumas that happen especially when we're young uh or just you know the experiences we have in this culture they are forced out of their naturally valuable States and some of them uh because some of them other systems might call these inner children that before they get hurt are full of love and openness and creativity and joy and playfulness but they're also the most sensitive parts of us so they're the ones that get hurt the most so they if we have experiences where we're told that we're not value then they take on the burden of worthlessness or if we're terrified by some event they're the ones that hold the terror or the emotional pain and so on and once they get burdened like that they have the power to make us feel what they carry they they can pull us back into those scenes and they can overwhelm us with all that pain or Terror or worthlessness and so we kind of naturally try to lock them away inside in inner basements or abysses and try to stay away from them and so those then we we call the Exiles which I get is a big word in in the Jewish community and once you have a lot of Exiles you feel a lot more delicate and the world seems a lot more dangerous cuz so many things could trigger all that and could overwhelm you with it and so you you wind up with these other parts who you know before they were they had to become these protectors were just helping you and get through life they they're good at Discerning who's safe and who's not or or helping you choose a a career direction or a partner something like that but after you get a bunch of Exiles they are forced out of their naturally valuable States to become what we call protectors and some of them protect you by managing your life so that no one gets close enough to trigger you and hurt you again or or so that you perform at a very high level so to counter the worthless feelings or so you uh and there's a variety so you look perfect so no one rejects you or so you take care of everybody so they depend on you and like you but they don't let you take care of yourself so there's a a lot of common what we call manager roles otherwise known as the ego and the defenses um and so we've all got parts that are actively trying to get us through life without getting triggered without these Exiles getting activated and keeping the external environment you know controlled and keeping our bodies controlled too keeping us from feeling too much and some of them can be quite numbing in fact and keep us in our head all the time so these we call manager protectors but it doesn't always work and the world has a way of breaking through those defenses and triggering our Exiles at which point it's it's like a big explosion of flames of emotion that threaten to overwhelm you and take you out make it so you can't function so we have another set of Parts who are on guard waiting to deal with that emergency and we'll go into action impulsively often without regard to the consequences or the collateral damage just to get us away from those raw emotions that have exploded out of our Exile place and so we call them firefighters they're fighting these flames of emotion and most all of us have a hierarchy of them some of them are actually help us like I I have one that will get me to immediately go and just think about work and get away and distract me away from the pain or whatever I'm feeling uh so you know in some ways it's been productive but it's very ignoring of my kids who was and and uh my relationship ships so it was it was a dragon that way um but other people have a lot of others you know some people just kind of dissociate and immediately go off somewhere until the the fire calms down other people go to addictions of various kinds or uh and so on and so on we all have them and at the top of that hierarchy for most of us actually is suicide you know if the the fire gets too hot there's this exit strategy it's actually very comforting so so that's the very simple map to this inner territory that I I just stumbled into uh just to review there are and again I want to re reiterate that none of these labels that I'm I'm throwing out capture the essence of the part they're the roles the parts were forced into just like kids in a family are forced to take on roles that aren't natural to them because of the Dynamics of the family it's the same idea once released from those roles in the family or once they leave the family they can find out who they really are and that's a lot of what we're trying to do with these parts is help them out of these roles and so they can transform into who they were born to be so that's parts and then as I was saying I'm a family therapist that's my I have a PhD in that so I was really trying to get once I got hipped to the fact these parts aren't what they seem and they deserve to be listened to I was trying to get my clients to listen to them so maybe I'm having you Rabbi talk to your critic not that you have one but oh I do I do don't worry and I'm trying to get you to listen to it rather than argue with it or fight with it or or you know shut it out and it's going okay you're doing that and then all of a sudden out of the blue you kind of hate the critic and it reminded me of family sessions where I'm trying to have two people talk to each other and it's going okay two polarized people and suddenly a third party jumps in and is doing the talking and is siding with one against the other and we learned as family therapists to get that third member to stepped back in the room out of the line of vision of the one he's siding with and improving that boundary actually creates a better conversation and so I thought maybe as I'm working with you a part who hates the critic has come in and is doing the talking so I might say to you okay Rabbi could you get that one to just give us a little space and ask it to separate in there until we're done and to my amazement people would say okay it did and now how do you feel toward the critic it would be an entirely different answer seconds earlier they hated it wanted to get rid of it now they're just curious about why it calls you're just curious about why it calls you names and you even are calm relative to it and even confident relative to it and even kind of out of the blue have some compassion for it that it's can't be a great thing to have to do inside of it all the day and when I would get you in that state the conversation would go very well even with this nasty critic and it would reveal its secret history of how it got forced into its role how much it doesn't like having to do that to you and would love to do something different if it trusted it was Sav so as I did that process of just getting other parts to open space with other clients it was like the same person popped out in each client with those same c-word qualities and for more so in addition to calm curious confident compassion people would show creativity courage curiosity I said curiosity connectedness and um what's this compassion you got that one too um Clarity Clarity so those are what I call the eight Seas of self leadership cuz when I would ask you what part of you was that that's that's doing so well people would say that's not a part like these others that's me that's myself so I came to call that Theus self with a capital S and as I was saying earlier now 40 years later we we had our 40e celebration of the model last month at our annual conference uh 40 years later thousands of people using this all over the world we can safely say that that self is in everybody can't be damaged just beneath the surface of the parts so that when they open space it pops out and knows how to heal both in the inner world and in the outer world and that's the big deal about ifs and it's it's really gratifying or validating for me to learn that this is ancient wisdom in in the Jewish tradition the calistic tradition what would you say to somebody that has layers of trauma they don't call it that way because they're an act of trauma and they have absolutely no tool of even accessing this not because they don't want to but because they're very eye like Bessel Vander call told us one day one of these conversations he was talking about somebody who was molested by a parent at the youngest of age he said this person doesn't have trauma this person is trauma they're very conception of self is full of trauma how would you begin even with such a person to be able to help them go to that pure confident self so I spent about 20 years working with that population of people have been horribly abused repeatedly over and over and you're right in the beginning they're just what we call blended with these parts that are stuck in those scenes and so they're living the trauma every day and there isn't any of what I'm calling self to be found and so in with those clients I'm I become the self to the system temporarily so I'm talking to this little one who's running their life who is in this chronic state of of Terror and I'm forming relationship with it and helping it um trust me and that takes time but at some point when it does trust me I'm going to ask it to just pull its energy out of my client a little bit not so it goes away or gets exiled but just so my client isn't totally blended with it and if it if it trusts me enough then the part would do that and then I could say to my client okay how do you now where do you sense this part well it's over here it used to be all of me and now it's it's pulled out it's right here here and then I can say to them how do you feel toward it and you know out of the blue again people would say sometimes they say I hate it or I'm afraid of it but if we got all that to step back out of the blue even people with Horrible Histories would say I feel sorry for it I want to help it and then I could begin that process so you're right there are lots of people when they start who don't have any access to any of this but through uh my relationship with them at first and I have to be in that state of self myself and they come to trust that I'm safe and they're in a safe place in my office and then they they I can I'm a I'm a good what I call Hope Merchant I can sell them on the prospect of if you're willing to pull your energy out of the client then then you can get more help and if they really believe me then they tend to do that you explained to us a little better what that means that you are being their self like just like even maybe I would say maybe a role play at some point I I don't know if anybody's going to volunteer for that because that I don't know but when we at Fresh Start try to recommend to some people to go to if ifs sometimes just it doesn't like Mak sense to them in a logical way they're like I don't know what you're talking about all these parts I want to like be able to even some people on this call to crystallize to them what does it mean that you're finding self do you want to role play TOA sure sure yeah okay um yeah so how can I help you so you want me to come up with something yeah and it could be something that's actually uh something you want to work on or it could just be a role play we don't have to no um like some situation that's going on for me I guess I should know how to do this but uh sure okay so I'm just thinking of of a of a part of mine that's gets disassociated I don't know if that's enough or do we need more of a fine so how do you notice it when what's it like when you dissociate a little bit [Music] um I just feel like a little flighty going somewhere else or I'll find myself when I go through things that are tough for me um also disassociating physically like leaving a room or moving away and I don't know if that but just like trying to not be part of what's going on and sometimes it could be a very physical sensation yeah so either you physically get up and move or you some part takes you away gets you a little bit more distant from whatever the situation is yeah does that sound right yeah so um would you like to get to know that part a little bit and see what is afraid would happen if it didn't do that sure yeah all right so just focus on that feeling like your memory of the feeling if it's not right here and see if you find it in your body or around your body right now I could feel it yeah where do you find it um very much in my head my chest and as you notice it there how do you feel toward that part that does that so sad sad and I think that that's where you said that word you is already where you created that differentiation between self and the part right um but I I'll keep go because yeah I I feel sad for it so let it know you have compassion for it and see how it reacts to your compassion so I feel like right here is where I'm finding it a little tricky to be separate from it I feel like I'm it what like but I'm I'm just like in my head going back and forth a couple of times to yeah so the the other part of you that keeps saying you're it you're not it's not something different from you let's just see if it'll relax back a little bit let us give this a try just for a few minutes okay okay all right so again let this associative part know that you have compassion for it and see how it reacts feel like it's nervous it's feeling me okay listening yeah okay maybe ask what it's afraid would happen if it didn't do this inside of you and don't think of the answer just see what comes okay I think like fear that like that things will overflood and things will come up right now and it's easy I think that's really what it's feeling if you if I start giving it attention things will come out in inappropriate times or so it's trying to contain other parts of you that would flood you otherwise with I think so just ask don't think just ask and see what comes back yeah okay and how do you feel toward it now as you learn it's trying to contain all that thankful so can you show it some gratitude can you let it know you appreciate how it's trying to protect you that way and see how it reacts to your appreciation I felt like I could breathe a little like gave me space to yeah it's it's relaxing a bit Yeah and we won't stay much longer but just ask it a couple more questions like if you could prove to it that you wouldn't be overwhelmed by all that if it relaxed more would it have to keep doing this no and if it didn't have to do this job what might it like to do instead inside of you relax and give me permission to be me perfect go ahead I just like I I heard that me come out and like I have things in my head like oh this is what I was doing that's what yeah that's great and ask it how old it thinks you are how old it thinks I am yeah just ask that question wait for the answer pretty end so maybe let it know you're not that well you're still young relative to me but let it know you're not a little kid anymore and see how it reacts oh okay I can move out of the way yeah you me yeah so let it know you're going to keep working with it and we really appreciate how much it shared just now and uh you know eventually it'll trust that there is a grown-up in there it's not trying to doesn't have to protect a little kid anymore the way it did so does that feel complete for now Tova yeah I think it feels seen and I and I was able to see who I am as opposed to the disassociation and like move that a little bit aside and come back yeah fantastic thank you thank you thanks for definitely felt the difference yeah thanks for taking the chance to do that so does that make it clearer in terms of how this can work I think so yeah definitely for me here right now and and um I really also wanted this opportunity to be for like some of our participants who you know been trying to talk about um for me internally it definitely felt the very I feel the parts moving physically yeah yeah they a very sematic aspect to them you can really sense their energy yeah I really feel it yeah I appreciate that again I appreciate you're taking the risk with your front of your audience yeah Dr Schwarz can I ask something yeah TOA you want to ask to ask no no no go ahead I was saying I don't remember y's gonna remember who said thank you for yes we had a we had a we did a sematic experience webinar a few weeks ago and we had a brave soul and the somatic practitioner said afterwards thank you for Lending us your nervous system well you learn us a lot more than just your nervous that thank you right now yeah it just seems to me that this is such a there's such a spiritual component here so I want to know in terms of your own practice and the PHD you received did this evolve your own spiritual understanding of the human being of the universe of Consciousness very much um you know I'm uh my father's side was conservative Jews and he rejected all of that he's he's a scientist and just rejected organized religion in general and I was influenced by him he always said to be proud of our Jewish but uh don't buy into any of the religion so that was my that's a good Jew that's a good Jew real Jew so that was he was very influential in my life in general and so that was my attitude about spirituality coming into this Back 40 years ago and uh it wasn't until I started seeing these kinds of miraculous things happening that I said I can't explain I can't explain what I'm calling self in traditional psychology there's got to be something more to it and uh and then other kinds of sort of quote unquote spiritual experiences my clients would start having and I would get curious about that and and I was getting all and and these were people that also weren't religious but they were getting what were what they would they would find to be called guides coming in and giving them all kinds of comfort and we would ask are you a part and they'd say no where'd you come from and so over time I really shifted to the point where now I consider myself to be extremely spiritual and that what I'm calling self is a you know for me I'm I'm very I love the metaphor from quantum physics that photons are both a particle and a wave so for me there's a wave state of self that might be called God or the nondu or you know where if you access that you just feel connected to everything and then you come back and you partical eyesee you enter this body and you you feel separate and you lose that level of connectedness uh but it's the same self it's it's the drop of that ocean so for me that's one of the big spiritual sides of ifs that you know when we meditate we actually go into that that big nonuel place and sort of blend with God and then we come back and ideally you can hold on to the memory of that's who you really are so anyway that's one element of the the spirituality of this so it's almost like in a metaphor that somebody once told me you have the Atlantic Ocean and then you have a bottle of water inside the ocean that's filled with water and we isolate the bottle of water from the entire ocean and we think all there is is that water in the bottle when really the bottle is just one container of an individualized manifestation of the Infinity of the ocean exactly my position on this yeah yeah so really I would say in in the cabalistic and cidic tradition the point of of Judaism is really to to synthesize the two the same author wrote that the purpose of creation was to be able to manifest the infinite Oneness within the particular form of every life that's uh you know through meditation or now I I'm very interested in psychedelics because it has that effect seems at least from for some people of putting all these protectors to sleep so you do actually join that place for a few minutes anyway and then when you come back uh your protectors are still kind of asleep and so you can you get access to parts to Exiles that ordinarily might take 10 sessions to get to but you also come back with much more of a sense of this is just a a jar of water of of salt water that's just a piece of something much much more and that that's who we really are so I guess uh very often scientists who come across and discover you know unique things there's also a danger of the ego getting involved I don't feel that in you how do you retain that uh humility thank you um that's a big compliment and had you known me 20 years ago you wouldn't say that so there was a point where uh I was fortunate to have people in my community who confronted me about how arrogant I was getting to be and uh so I wound up just doing a lot of work with those parts that that needed that they needed the validation the need for validation and ego validation that I'm not worthless that I actually have achieved something that that people like me a lot all the time you know I just I I got a lot of gifts from my father but I was the oldest of six boys he kept wanting a daughter and didn't work out uh but uh being the oldest there was a lot of pressure on me to be a big scientist like him and I didn't have a head for it and I had kind of add you know undiagnosed and so he was hard on me and uh and so I came from my family with a lot of Exiles that carried a lot of worthlessness and a drive to prove him wrong and to prove that I I do have something to contribute and had had that had I not gotten those burdens from him the model wouldn't exist probably and I would be some kind of physician but uh so yeah on a deeper level the soul inside of him was driving you towards your true vocation I think so there was some guidance in that yeah the whole thing right I guess even in our dysfunction sometimes our soul quietly you know guides us totally totally agree how do you feel like for example in the above book I mentioned the T he distinguishes between two models of of healing and of spiritual growth he calls it a SCF one is subduing and one is transformation which means sometimes let's say I have fear in my system or or dispear or frustration or or Envy whatever it is sometimes he says you have to be able to look at it and say listen you're not going to run my life this is not the true self please come back with another script in other words the ability to put it in its place even if you can't remove it and then he speaks that sometimes we have the ability to actually transform it you know to what you would call unburden it and let it become something else do you find that dual process like I can't always transform it I just sometimes have to say listen like I know with myself and and I find it to be sometimes effective I often have a lot of Inner Fear and sometimes I'm experienc experiencing resentment and frustration and sometimes I'll really look at that and say listen you work for me I don't work for you okay come back with another script I want to live now in a place of love and in a place of light and in a place of confidence this fear is not it's not realistic it's it's an inner it's an inner child emotion there is fear in the world but right now this is not a real it's not authentic and and this resentment I don't I really don't want to be in that place I want to be in a place of gratitude and I actually find that sometimes to be very very it's hard but I find it to be effective um like almost like you work for me I don't work for you and and and don't tell me that I'm a resentful fearful traumatized person I'm I'm not going to buy that um is do you feel that that could be sometimes repressive and and come back with a vengeance or there's a place for that in in ifs almost Authority almost like you know stop barking you're my dog stop barking okay I had to do that with my dog a few minutes ago before we started but um a lot depends on the place from which you're speaking to the part so if your critic is talking to that scared one it's GNA make things worse but if you can be himself so you have compassion for it even while you're saying not now just give me some space I'll talk to you later then the part will respond to that uh and you know there there's four goals in ifs one we've been talking about which is helping these parts transform into who they're designed to be the second goal is to help all the parts trust self as a leader and some of that is what you're talking about that if they really trust that it actually does go better they have a captain there's a captain in the ship captain absolutely a captain a parent a you know whatever kind of leader you if they really trust that they that you're there and that things do go better when when they let you handle them then I do the same thing you know like getting ready for this this talk I said I know you guys are a little nervous about it but just let me handle it I'll talk to you later and then you know all the anxiety starts to separate and I do have to follow up if I say I'm going to talk to them later and check in with them and it's those times when you can do the second um I forget what you call it but the second part of healing which is like okay I don't have time to to help you now but I will and then you follow up and you go to them and and let me know about your anxiety tell me more about what you're afraid would happen if you didn't blend with me and tell me where you're stuck in the past and and there's a whole process for getting these parts out of where they're stuck in the past helping them unload the anxiety and then they they don't have that they're not in that same role they they're actually often um just playful and and then you don't have to do nearly as much like you know years ago I would have had to do a lot more of okay get out of my get out of my hair for a few minutes and I'll talk to you later but now most of my parts really trust that if they let me stay it goes better Dr Schwarz can I just we just got a question that I think is important to discuss and maybe you and Rabbi wway can sort of take it in this Direction with everything going on obviously in then in Israel and the fear and anxiety is building within you know the Jewish Community abroad um specifically when it comes to Children you know you have a version of ifs that we might be able to work with our children when they're anxious when they hear the news when they find out about things that you know are are obviously scary um you know how how how can as a parent what might we be able to do with our children using the ifs yeah so it is a really scary time to be a Jew and uh I think kids sense that both they'll s it's our anxiety about it all and then you know they listen to the news too and and hear all this so it's yeah it's a challenging time and even just the language really helps kids and you know it's interesting because uh child ifs therapists who work with kids say it's second nature to them you know you can ask about one of their parts and they'll tell you about four others because they haven't been socialized away from the phenomena so even just introducing the language and saying you know is there a part of you that's really scared about what's going on now and how do you feel toward that part and you know doing a version of what I helped toova with just now of getting it to separate a little bit so they can be with it and comfort it and I have um after takes like five minutes go ahead to I was going to say I have a son who has a lot of anxiety and I learned I I love the ifs model and it helped me at different times and obviously you could see I could still gain from it tremendously but I have a son who's seven and I was trying to think how could I bring this out and help him with it and he happens to love animals and I said then you know you are the Zookeeper that's right you get to pull out the turtle right now is sh die or the lion wants to be brave when you want to go to school what animal and he loves it sometime he just we talk about it like different animals and himself is the Zookeeper so he gets to make the decisions I could put the turtle away right now and it's been very helpful with him I love that yeah any kind of metaphor kids kids will run with so but yeah just the idea that there is a youu who's the Zookeeper who's the the the captain who's the and and that you can take care of these parts that you don't have to be ashamed of them and lock them away or you don't have to blend with them and have them run your life doctor there's also a beautiful book I'm sure you're familiar with it by Dr Tom Holmes the illustrated book I'll I'll put it in the notes but that's also a very easy way certainly for slightly older children um to learn learn about ifs in the more simple version I think yeah I love that book and uh there are other books written for kids based on ifs that I think are on our website but I'm not sure Dr Schwarz I think a very important question in our community is many of us grow up with an inner and outer critic all the time you're doing this wrong you're doing this wrong you're betraying God you're betraying your community you're betraying your soul this is because there is a very strong spiritual and eth theal tradition in the Jewish Community we call it the Torah and it's translated in many lives as an inner critic that doesn't stop it's an inner bully literally a bully that doesn't stop and and almost people feel that that's our ethical part it's our it's our spiritual part when really it's a disaster it makes us miserable and anxious you mentioned a line earlier that if it's your critic your inner critic speaking to that part and saying Go away for now I'm busy I need to be in a place of love it's going to come back to haunt you can you clarify that why why why will it come back to haunt me why will it not work well why won't that part shut up or or die or be transformed well the question is how how well does that critic work with your kids you know so it's inner kids or outer kids don't like the shaming that comes with that and they might they might obey but they're going to feel more worthless or whatever they felt to begin with or more anxious so you're going to reinforce the protector actually totally yeah you going to add more to their burdens and and make them feel unwelcome and that's the opposite of the message you want to give so when I do it from s because I did that I did that I played college football and I had to in my size which is very short I had to get all my fear lock it away I just had to totally so I could run full speed into somebody almost twice my size um and so I had all these Exiles from those experiences and I would be whenever I would feel because I was you know in the Macho football World you never want to act weak or look weak so I whenever I would feel fear I would be very shaming of it and get out of here and so it all you know after college kind of caught up to me and I would have all kinds of panic and anxiety and and so it works for a while but you're just creating more exiling and and there is a way to do it from those eight seword where you're relating to these parts like a a good parent or like a good Captain like a loving parent a loving parent loving parent that's right who's saying okay you do have to go to bed but I still love you and I know you're not bad and you're not just because you're scared it's okay to be scared yeah so you're saying if it's coming from the critic inside of me and I'm shaming the part essentially it's coming from my own my own protector so it's not going to help it because it's all part of my dysfunction exactly right it's going to reinforce everything rather if it's coming from my pure and sacred and and and beautiful self even if I'm strong and I'm authoritative and I'm like you work for me I don't work for you but ultimately it's going to listen because there's a very there's an internal holess is an internal sense of wholeness exactly right three of those c-words are Clarity confidence and courage and so I can speak to my parts from those three plus compassion so I can be very forceful or firm not only with my parts but anybody who's out of line with me but without the added judgment that that just gives them more worthlessness there's also I think something that scares some people when you speak about no bad parts you know we live in a world where we're very afraid of a world that can't distinguish between good and evil what we're seeing now is a world that can't distinguish between a country that's trying to protect its children from another Holocaust which Hamas would do if they could versus people who are targeting civilians and children gleefully and that blur for Jews is a very dangerous blur so I think can you just Define that distinction because when you speak about no bad parts you're not saying that there is behavior that is not abhorent and and and and and horrific it's just that if we have could you just clarify that yeah no I'm glad you asked that cuz it is important to be very clear about that and you know I uh I wanted as I was developing this work I thought okay so these critics aren't what we thought and some of these addictive Parts aren't what we thought they actually deserve to be appreciated but could it be possible that the parts that made people do horrific things so I I wound up uh Consulting to a treatment center for sex offenders for two years and uh would work with offenders and we would find the part that did the offending that in many cases they hated and they they were terrified of and asked the same kind of questions about where it was stuck in the past and it would show scenes of when they were being abused it wasn't necessarily sex abuse but they all had some kind of abuse history as a child when they were being abused this part looked around the room and said who has power in this room it's this guy doing this to me I'm going to take in his energy to protect my person from him and then that part gets stuck with that burden of the energy of wanting to hurt vulnerability and teams up with the sexual part to take over and do that so virtually every perpetrator had a story like that uh and so that's and I'm not condoning the activity of the part it's horrible I'm just saying that these parts are steeped in trauma and general wow or in extreme beliefs that are they're surrounded by which is true you know in in different cultures so you mean if a kid grows up indoctrinated that Jews are the devil and that's that's what we call a legacy burden it's a a burden that didn't come from their direct experience in life but came down through the generations which maybe related to some trauma of centuries ago and you know have their own legacy burdens from the Holocaust and so on could you expand there's so many questions related to this and people who are also like at Birth adopted and I've had just like when it's really really young from a very very young like you're saying pre-birth or the Legacy just so many questions that come to mind but one of I wanted to just could you expand a little more on the part of suicidality how do people it's it's a very common part there's a big difference between suicidal ideation and actually being suicidal what's happening what's it doing to us how do we sit with it it's a very very common thing that we see with them many people who call first starting all over yeah so having worked with many many suicidal Parts I got to where I would just try to get my client curious about it or I would get curious and ask it again the similar question to what I had you ask your part what are you afraid would happen if you didn't kill her and the answer to that question usually there were there two or three variations but the most common answer was if I don't if I don't kill her she'll keep feeling this stuff and I can't stand it it's just too much and uh I want to take her out of her misery that way so that would be one answer um there are variations on that or there's if I don't kill her she'll keep doing this thing that hurts other people if I don't but there was always an answer answer and so my next um my reply is usually some version of if we could heal what you're trying to keep her away from so you didn't worry about that would you have to kill her almost always say no but I don't think you can do that would you give me a chance to prove that we can or if we could heal the part that might do this thing to other people like a lot of the perpetrators had a huge suicidal part they felt hor about what the their part had led them to do and so what if they're just stuck in their lives like I need to leave a I need to leave a marriage I'm I have abusive parents I'm a teenager and I can't like what do you mean I should give that part permission you know like it's very physical stuff in the way I don't have any big I can't just leave my house when I'm a child or married to someone like what if I'm being abused how do you how do we help that part at that time well you know there's usually that kind of debate there's parts that can't stand being abused and want to run and then there are parts that feel still very attached to the abuser and are still waiting for the approval of that person and or have kids to protect or and so there's this big polarization going on which is paralyzing and so when I'm working with something like that we're going to go to each side like you would in a family that was polarized and he get each side to to say what they need to say and maybe even unburden each one like the one who feels like they have they are desperate for the love of the perpetrator let's see where that came from and we'll find where that one stuck in the past and we'll help it unload that that drive for Redemption from someone like this and have self become the good caretaker of that part and now that part's not so needing of staying with this perpetrator and the other parts can calm down a bit but also help them get out of it so um so you really find people becoming less suicidal after you do an exercise like that oh yeah and the the typical way of working with suicidality which is to um fight with the suicidal part or argue with it or that just makes it worse usually so we're listening to it it actually probably wants you to argue with it yeah because that invites an incessant vicious cycle of of mental chatter I'm guilty I'm not guilty I'm evil I'm not evil I'm almost evil I'm horrible I mean I think right probably would never want to go it's a very scary part right the worst thing for parents to do with children is getting to an endless argument you know no we're bad parents we're great parents we love you we hate you no we love you we almost hate you that's not what children need they want confident parents who really love them and demonstrate it and even the discipline is part of the love I think right I mean totally totally and and you know kids at different ages are going to tell you what an you are and you you know if you if you need their love so much it's going to be a huge uh drama but if if you so I need my parts not to love me but to trust me that's right well you want them to love you too but right it's like your kids you want them to love you and to trust you right they'll sometimes scream but really they'll TR they they know they can trust you somebody asks here how you know when you hit this spot of the self like how do you know ah this that was the self versus this was just another part of me is there like do we know it emotionally viscerally somebody asked yeah when there there are exercises is um designed to help people get a a felt sense of that and so when I'm like I was saying like when I'm preparing to to do a talk like this or to talk with you guys uh I'm noticing is my heart open or not uh do I feel a big agenda here like I got to prove myself so I'm just checking for parts that maybe covering my heart or keeping my in my or I want to perform at a high level and so I'm just I see you guys I get it but just just chill let me handle this and as they separate I'll notice now my heart's quite open like it is right now and I don't have a big agenda I can just be interested you know I want to convey some things but I don't have to prove myself I don't have to do a great performance I can just be with you guys and listen to your questions and and then it becomes enjoyable how do you get to that space yeah my parts trust me now so I'm just noticing them and I'm asking them to open space sort of in the similar way that I did with TOA we asked the part to separate and suddenly she had feelings for it to help it so it's it's really that simple the self is just beneath the surface of these parts so when they open space it comes out spontaneously so I think many of us were trained that we tell our parts with a sense of powerful Authority and it comes back to haunt us because it's coming from our shame it's not coming from our self right exactly right like stop being anxious you idiot you be humble you're egotistical narcissist muga right it's more shame H by why why someone asks here uh what's what two people asked about where the where does the Yahara the evil inclination fall in is that a that's a great question so we have in our tradition something called the Yer to theer the the Divine inclination or the good inclination the loving inclination and the the negative one the evil one the toxic one I think I think this is exactly the point I am not my Yar I am not my evil inclination I have Parts in me that may tell me to punch you in the nose to get divorced to betray my wife to steal to cheat to lie to hurt somebody to m whatever it is and and and that's a part and I think there's two stages in that in that relationship number one is subduing it putting it in its place with compassion putting in his place saying you're not me and you can't write the script come back with another script I I'm not running away from my marriage now I am not going to scream on the top of thy lungs and insult my wife I will not sorry I'm going to go to a place of gratitude and it will listen if it knows it's coming from from an authentic place it's going to listen and then there's a deeper part that the mishna says that you can actually transform it and I think that's where unburdening comes so I think the the idea of the in Judaism means there is a there are sometimes very negative inclinations and that's not your essence and number two don't pathologize yourself have compassion for the fact that this is part of the human condition you don't have to have compassion to the point that you surrender to the negativity absolutely not right I mean does this make sense yes very much and that the negativity itself isn't the part it's the burden the part carries who is self is self the inner child the self who I am who is self I know in my own Journey when I tried to do all this recovery and connect to my inner child I had a very rough time and then one time I had an epiphany and my inner my I I didn't even know to call itself self at that time but it was who I was preconception it was my soul I don't know for different people at different times who is it when we try and help people connect to their inner child and people who are so disconnected from themselves when they were young who who am I really connecting to you know when we had that part of you separate and I said how do you feel toward it that was you that was more of yourself maybe blended with some other parts still but it's it's the you that's there when all your parts open a lot of space that's yourself and it has those qualities and some others that I I didn't include because they don't begin with the letter c but um that's that's what I'm calling the S it's your essence in a way it's your soul in the sense that it's the drop of that ocean that Rabbi was talking about um so there's a lot of different ways to understand it but what I came up with was a way to access it very quickly and that that's the big deal of ifs because most spiritual divisions know about it and have practices designed to to try and get to it but this is a way to get to it really quickly the doctor we have many we have many therapists that uh are participating on this thing I just want to throw out one question that came in here which ties into everything we're saying here how can a therapist be sure that the client is indeed accessing a part and not a fabricated thought how do how do we know the difference between parts and fabrications I guess uh I'm not sure what they mean by a fabricated thought I mean if you're having thoughts it's usually coming from a part so those are what we call Trail heads you know if you're out hiking uh there's a head of a trail and if you go out if you start there and you go on the trail you'll find some nice place thoughts if you just focus on the thought by itself particularly if it's an extreme thought like some of the ones that that uh Rabbi yaaya was talking about why if you if you start there you'll find the part from which that thought is emanating and then you can begin to get to know the part and and then you know you can be a good parent to it and let it know no I'm not going to leave my wife even though you're you're telling me to and I'm going to find out where you're stuck in the past so we can get you out of there so you know every time she and I have a fight you don't tell me to leave which actually I've done so with my wife so uh yeah you mean you have done you unburdened it what do you mean you're yeah yeah yeah yeah my father I keep picking on my father but he would you know he was the one parent that I got a lot I got love from but he also could explode in Anger at me out of the blue at times you know and he had undiagnosed PTSD from World War II and so on so if my wife ever does some version of that this little guy inside would say get the hell out of here you don't want to be with somebody like that and so I had to do a lot of work with that guy cuz it was scaring my wife CU every time I'd say I'm I'm leaving if you keep doing this and uh so now I don't even feel that impulse to to run wow you unburdened it unburdened it got it out um pain of Abandonment which is so common every you know that's how do how does I AFF Fess an abandonment do people will manage to heal from that with ifs yeah well most people who you know so many people who walk in through our doors say I was diagnosed with borderline personality disorder which is abandonment and we like to say to the people you know all we have to do is really or not as a set of traumas I think Dr Schwarz this example that he just gave with his wife I think is a very powerful illustration meaning when when forgive me I may be putting words she'll correct me but if his wife or or anyone's wife or husband starts screaming and the little child in me is feeling oh my God oh my God this is abandonment my wife hates me my husband hates me um I'm not going to be safe I have to leave I have to run and if I could say no this is not my father's PTSD there's a relationship my wife loves me my husband loves me they're going to stay here that child can relax no and not feel abandoned right exactly but it's very hard for it to relax if if he's stuck back in that scene with my father still so I had to get him out of there and help him see no I'm here I can take care of you and you don't even need that father in the same way you did because I can take care of you even if she's acting like him I can still take care of you so that's what we do with abandonment these parts that had been abandoned and are so desperate to be not abandoned by somebody they love trigger all the parts that chase people away and so by going to them and helping them feel my love for them then they don't feel abandoned and they don't have that same reaction so one of the books I wrote Rec a while ago was called You're the one you've been waiting for so we're trying to get people to be primary caretakers of Their Own Parts so they're partners spouses can be the secondary caretaker of those parts and most of us have that reverse we we latched on to our partner because we want them to take care of these little ones inside of us who are so desperate H and they can't they can't and when they do something out of line you know all your protectors go crazy and I think sometimes we often project it on them in other words if one spouse maybe having a difficult day we're experiencing it as abandonment when really they're just having a difficult day right all like that so most all of us come to relationships with these Exiles that have all kinds of of extreme expectations and needs and uh and then the protectors are the ones who do the battle so we have we have a few minutes left uh rabbi doctor I just want to try and go through a few uh a few other questions a person asked here what can we do to make sure our kids don't develop Exiles from the current situation but I guess that applies to any situation I know you talk briefly about it but specifically how do we make sure they don't Exile those parts of themselves yeah you know that's that is a a project I'm I'm trying to bring this to the culture in general and there there's a woman no named Joanna Curry Satori who's bringing it to school systems all over now where if a kid gets bullied or something like that um you you go to the you help the kid go to the part that got hurt by it or scared by it or ashamed by it and you help them bring it back and love it in the moment and not Exile it and then you go to the bully and you help him find the part that did that and and the the same happens in ideally in uh in families with when parents are doing that that they and when I raised my kids um you know I don't know if they totally agree with me but I think I did a pretty good job of when they're in a part to Not freak out like I can't have my kid do this extreme thing but instead just be present and loving and firm and in the way we've been talking rabbi just uh you know not right now but you don't have to lock that part up it's not bad because it's having a tantrum so it's that kind of thing I uh I want to end with one question which I think combines both r y why and and Dr Schwarz I think you'll both have a lot to add here when parts are interfering with our values and we can't access compassion to tend to them how can we lead ourselves effectively and integrate our values uh the last part of that again how how can we effectively manage that part essentially you know and and and I this goes back to a little bit of the evil inclination but here this person broke it down um when our parts are getting in the way of our values and we're doing behaviors that are the antithesis of what we stand for and what we know is right yeah how do how and and therefore you're unable to give them compassion you can't give them compassion yeah it's we've been talking about this throughout but um ideally a lot depends on how you think of what's Happening inside of you so if you feel like if you think of it as an evil inclination you're going to relate to it in one way if you think of it as a young kid inside of you who's uh you know stuck in a bad place maybe and Carries some some uh burdens from that time you're going to relate to it in an entirely different way so you know most all these parts even the ones that we call managers who got you through graduate school and who you know help you seem intellectual and so on they're all pretty young you know that we got really young kids and then we got older like teenage kids in these parentified roles inside and they're they're all doing their best but they're all kind of waiting for the grown-up to show up and say I've got this you guys can all relax and just trust me to handle things and so that's that's what we're bringing we're we're accessing that person inside of everybody and having them start to relate to these parts rather than the critics or the advocating parts or the dissociating parts and uh with when self shows up everybody's relieved wow yeah I would also add if I may I would also add we know we have the expression evil inclination the expression itself I think is is a fine expression but I think it's misconstrued in many of our minds with terrible self-guilt and self shame and and and bullying ourselves and I think we have to really we have to really encounter that we have to really confront that because I don't think it's helpful to anybody the evil inclination is very useful in the sense that our soul knows what is moral what is immoral what is Holy what is Unholy what is constructive what is destructive that's very clear now when these Cravings or emotions show up instead of shaming ourselves which is coming from our own defensive parts that are not wholesome we can empathize with the fact that this is what our brain is producing right now but I really I'm much bigger than this this is not my story this is not my Essence this is not my core yes it's part of Being Human it's part of my story it's part of my experience and I have compassion for the fact that my brain feels it needs to produce this craving or this addiction or this feeling but you know what I am not defined by it I'm not limited by it I am not so narrow and I can choose to be in a completely different space that way you can choose your values you can choose your inner power you can choose your inner love without without having to subject yourself to terrible guilt and shame and and self-loathing and self-hate which literally feeds into theara it literally feeds in to to the burden of these parts what such a bad person I am so it's actually distancing yourself from from from your vals if we can do it from a much more expansive and and beautiful space the same results are achieved but with much more longevity and with much more depth and with much more uh authenticity I totally agree Rabbi and um I would encourage you to try on this idea that the evil uh impulse isn't even defining of the part it's just the burden the part took on right but it's stuck in it's not the core it's not the core I don't know if you know but in this in the Tanya the the the author that the book I spoke earlier he often he substitutes the word evil inclination for an animal Consciousness and that's very interesting animals are not bad yeah they just want survival they want to survive that's what they want my puppy wants to survive my elephant wants to survive and even my lionist the cup wants to survive in survival I may create you know monstrous ideas about how to survive right so my animal Soul can become very dangerous lion or tiger or or German Shepherd but but in essence in essence that cute puppy didn't want to destroy it just became that way so I guess at the core we can we can really find an innocence and a purity and that's what transformation looks like that's what Redemption exactly right Dr Schwarz you speak a lot in your writings about healing the world bringing the world to a state of healing which is of course one of the greatest ideas in Judaism we call it Redemption mess the prophets uh spoke about a world of Peace a world of of Oneness a world of of of of of of real love and we pray for it every day we hope for it every day um how do you feel that this all can contribute first of all to our own healing of course but also to World healing are you still are you hopeful of that I you know I I it's looking Grimmer but I I believe it has that potential um yeah it's it's such a different Paradigm for understanding the mind and how how to relate to to yourself that if everybody adopted it um would make a huge difference now that's a big if and uh I plan to spend the rest of my life seeing how far I can take it but um yeah and you know it also helps like the other we didn't talk about this so much but if you look through the eyes your protector at your enemy all you see are your enemy's protectors if you look from South you see your enemy protectors but you see the Exiles that drive those protectors and you also see that they have a self too and that makes a huge difference and right now with Hamas it's tough to even think about that but um it just makes a difference in how you negotiate with enemies and so on well I I want to be a respectful of your time doctor and and usually um we ask for final thoughts but I'm going to do something a little different because Rabbi y why we were all excited TOA we were all excited about this conversation right we were like looking forward to it we knew it was going to be rich um but instead of having final thoughts I'd rather just uh get a commitment out of you that we can come back revisit this again uh because I think there's so much more on the table I know we have more questions that haven't been answered and I'm just afraid if we say final thoughts will go another hour and a half so um I do want to thank you tremendously Dr Schwarz this has been incredible um there's so much richness here thank you Rabbi YY thank you Tova for Lending us your uh your authentic self thank you everybody who's joined us from all over the world uh this video will be available on uh our channel to us fresh start as well as is the yeshiva.net and Dr Schwarz I didn't get a formal confirmation but was that a yes that we could do this again I loved it yeah I had a great time so I would love to come back I'm happy to report that the book that RAB y why mentioned that Tanya in English has already been ordered fantastic God willing it'll be it'll be by your office in the next week or so yeah and it's it's great to know that that uh I'm right in line with my lineage that way you have no you'll have no problem getting us on your team and I I think that's again I think in the Jewish World ifs has really taken a a meaningful um it's it's really it's really hit struck a chord and I think the reason of course r y why is bringing up I think is part of that so thank you everybody for joining thank you doctor and God willing we do this again thank you thank you thanks for having me thank you care thank you byebye this class is brought to you by the Yeshiva net please help us continue the classes make even a small contribution at ww.the usa.net SL donate