LIVE Thursday Night Call-In Show | THU SEP 4

Hey, calling to the call show. All right, hold on. I gotta charge my phone. Just a second. [Music] Show. calling to the call in show. This is if this is your first time at the call-in show, we want to welcome you. Something we do Thursday nights and um basically the premise is it's called the Thursday night call-in show because it takes place on Thursday night and it's a show and people call in and I talk to them. We have a theme song calling to the callin show. Calling to the callin show. All right. I got to actually hook up my phone. I didn't do that yet. Yeah. Um, what's the I'm just putting it on the group chat. Oh, no. Okay. Um, one second. Call into the calling show. Call into the call in show. You got to call into the callin show. Call into the Call in show. >> Please enter the conference number. >> Okay. Am I in? >> Yes, you are. Yes. Yes. Yes. >> Hooray. Okay. Just one second. Okay, now it should be connected to the road cer. If you don't know what a road cer is, it's this thing. Can you see this? This thing with the glowing buttons on it. It's a road cer. It's the basically it's the sound mixer. Okay. So now phone is hooked through roadcaster. Okay, cool. Um, excellent. I made a bra earlier. All right. So, welcome to the Thursday night call-in show. So glad that you're here. So meaningful to me that all of you are here. Um, we're doing a little bit something different. Oh, Tova says, "Rabbi inspired me to try the orange cream coke and I only tasted the vanilla, not the orange." Yeah, I got over that. There was a Yeah, if you can remember maybe about a month ago in our other studio, I was drinking a lot of orange cream coke because frankly it was on sale on Amazon and I got a ton of it. But after I finished it, I didn't reorder it. I didn't think it was that good. Um, yeah. Also, in general, I think I'm going to stop ordering canned soda on Amazon for two reasons. One is I heard that the Amazon delivery people don't like it. I guess because it's heavy. Although they deliver like furniture and stuff, so I'm not sure why this is so much heavier, but you know, if they don't like it, I don't want to do it to them. And the other thing is I've noticed, and this may be related to the first thing, is that it's always dented. Like the cans are dented. So, and that could be related to them not liking having to deliver it. Maybe they spike it a little bit. I don't mean spike a drink like you know like like a bad person spikes someone's drink. I don't mean like that. I mean uh maybe like a touchdown celebration in football when they spike the football in the end zone. Maybe they resent having to deliver the cans of soda and they drop it on on its corner. Um, yeah. So, I don't uh I don't think I'm going to order soda on Amazon anymore. Now, the one soda that I was going to order on Amazon is I wanted to get a pallet. you heard me of Celray, which is the ultimate beverage, Celray soda. And if anyone would like to get a gift for Soulward Studios, please uh can donate some Cal soda. You know what Saloda is? It's from Dr. Brown's. It's good stuff. Oh, I see here a name I recognize. Ashley. Ashley, thank you very much for the support. You uh who were very helpful in our recent campaign. Now, probably there are other people who also were helpful, but I just happen to recognize that name and because I remember seeing that donation. It was very helpful. Okay. Um, so tonight we're we're doing a theme, this was a suggestion that was given to me to uh once a month do a theme episode. And I said, you know what, that's cool. Cuz generally speaking, the Colin show is very like free form. I call it free form. It's kind of like stream of consciousness in the flow. We just go wherever. Like last week was totally crazy. I think last week was bizarre. Like Ellie called in. He was rambling about Besser Vanderulk and doing a whole meta thing triggering people by talking about a story about triggering. It's pretty wild. Um yeah, but generally, you know, we we just kind of go wherever we do whatever. You know, it's kind of like a it's a time for the Soul Works community to sort of like relax a little bit. Although we do speak about serious issues, people do call in with very serious issues. And when they when people call with serious issues, I just want you to know that my um I guess my uh reciprocal emotions kick in. And when somebody's talking about something serious, I do get very serious. My default setting is uh whimsy. But if somebody's talking to me about something serious, I get serious. Just uh sort of like King Solomon said, "As water reflects one face to another, so does the heart of man reflect to another." ish. So when you call in about serious issues, I do get serious and that's no joke. But in between we can have a little bit of fun. So the idea was although the call-in show is sort of loosey goosey, we should uh and that's fine and that means that thematically we can kind of meander around But once a month we should do a theme call, a theme show where all the calls are on one topic. So I chose a topic. The topic is money, finances, jobs, work, career. The reason I chose that is for a uh actually a very reason. You may be familiar with the concept well first of all that this is the month of El the last month the 12th month of the Jewish year. It's the month that heads into Roshashana and it's being the last month of the year. It's a it's called a month of stock taking of inventory trying to look back at everything that happened in the in the outgoing year but also um it's a time of his cabalists say a revelation of the 13 attributes of mercy and the alterb first rabb of kabad famously asks in a discourse in Lutra. If all is a time, the whole month is a time of this profound revelation of lofty spiritual energy, divine energy, then how come the whole month isn't a yamt? How come it's not a holiday? To the contrary, next month is full of holidays. The month of Tish is full of holidays, but l no holidays. is I mean you have shabas because shabas comes whether you like it or not but there's no there's no yamt and you would think if it's a time of a special energy the special in the Jewish calendar times that have special energy are generally yamt yamt means a holiday so the alterba answers and he says yeah but that's precisely the point because el is a time when divine energy is available in our day-to-day lives so if it were to be a yamtu then it would be a departure from our day-to-day lives. The fact that it's a regular mundane workday means that the divinity is entering into our day-to-day lives. And he gives an analogy. He says once there was a king who was heading back to the palace and on the way to the palace he passed through a field and as he passed through the field the people who were working in the field would come over to him and uh he would greet them all with a smiling face. Now later on he went to the palace and it wasn't so easy to gain access anymore. Only the people the VIP people with the plastic uh name tag with the what do you call it the lanyard on their neck. Only those people could get in. But when the king was in the field he was accessible to everyone. And the alterba says that's like el and tish. The month of El is the king is on the way to the palace. He's walking through the field. So go and approach him. Approach him means turn your heart to him. And you can do that while you're in the field, so to speak. Meaning in your everyday life, in your mundane affairs. That's what the field is. You know why the scarecrow won a Nobel Prize? Because he was outstanding in his field. [Music] So that's Lol is the king is in the field and then tish the high holidays. Ah that's the king in the palace. So go greet the king in the field. Don't wait for the palace when it's going to be much harder to gain access. I mean you could still try to gain access during the high holidays but it's much smarter to do it uh beforehand back in l. So at any rate that's why we wanted to do uh workrelated or jobreated financial related questions because it's sort of this concept of Malik Masada the king in the field that we're trying to find our connection to Hashem in our day-to-day lives in our workday in our mundane material affairs. It's a lot of stuff going on in the uh chat. I want to catch up on it. Hold on a second. Um, one second. Unscripted. I want Dennis and Julie to come back. Granted, it's La Havdo compared to this show. This has actual title. Unlike Dennis, sadly, I don't know what that is. Almost did need it either way. Love it. Not really following this. I don't know what that is. Angie gave $10. Thank you so much. Um, why is Angie apologizing? Angie gave $10. She's saying sorry. What are you sorry for? You just gave money. You should be proud of yourself. You shouldn't be apologizing. Okay. So, everyone understands the premise tonight. And if you have a question that you want to discuss with me on this topic, we're going to stay on topic. If you have a question you'd like to discuss with me tonight, how do you call into the call-in show? Well, that's a great question. You don't call directly in. Um, you email. You email. I'm going to write the email in the chat. info soulwords.org. You email [email protected] and you say, "Oh, Loki the cat gave $10." Canadian. CA means Canadian. Right now, I remember when Canadian was worth more than US one time. I remember one time I went to Canada and the Canadian was worth more than the US. But then I think for the past while good while at least 10 years, Canadian has been worth less than the US. So CA $10, I'm guessing that's like 750 American. Let me go look it up. Um $10 CA to U. Yes. 724 US. Okay. All right. Anyho, so if you have a question that you want to talk about that's on our theme for tonight, please send us an email and uh we will send you the calling show. information. Yeah. Okay. Um I think we have our first caller on the line already. And I think yeah, is our first caller ready? >> Welcome. Our first caller, >> Erin. >> Hello. >> Yes, I'm here. >> Hey, how you doing? >> I'm doing great. How are you? >> I thank God I'm doing well. Um, it's good to be here Thursday night for the call-in show and uh it's so nice to have you as our first caller of the week. So, what's up? >> I'm be here. Thank you for having me. >> Yeah. Yeah. My pleasure. Okay. What are we talking about? >> Uh we are going to talk about ethical marketing. Um I'm a I'm a marketing manager uh for a small business for my husband's small business and college for marketing. It's all fun. It's all good. But there is this fine line between um you know there's a formula to marketing and it is neurallinginguistic programming and people do report you know feeling hypnotized into buying things. How do you ethically market to people >> when people are saying you're hypnotizing me? >> Okay. So you actually you said that you went to school for marketing. So you're trained in this field. >> Okay. And you're actually practicing in this field. You said you're doing marketing for your husband's company. >> Do you want to give a shout out to his company? >> Oh, yes. He's an online personal trainer, Mace Momentum Coaching. Shout out. >> Does he have a YouTube channel? >> He does not have a YouTube channel, but you can find us on Instagram. >> What's the Instagram handle? >> I'm going to write it in the chat. What's the Instagram handle? >> It is Mace M- ace_momentum m o m nt m coaching mace momentum coaching. Okay, I just wrote it in the chat >> and uh hopefully that brings you >> Yeah. Well, I mean you got you're you're into marketing. You got to you know you're taking some time off from the marketing to call into the show. So it's the least I could do. Okay. So, you're saying I'm I'm actually not aware of this, but I'm I'm going to take your word for it because you do have uh training in this field. Um, you're saying that a lot of marketing is using neural linguistic programming because I know I know kind of what NLP is. I know enough to sound savvy when I call it NLP. I know about the mirroring and the matching and that kind of stuff. By the way, it's so funny >> exactly >> that you mentioned L N L N N N N N N N N N N N N N N N N N N N N N N N N N N N N N N N N N N N N N N LP because I don't know if you were on the call earlier, but I was mentioning that a lot of times in the call-in show I kind of joke around, but when people call in with serious questions, then I get really serious. And I said that that's a reciprocal energy. And I quoted King Solomon from Proverbs where he said, "So as water reflects a face, so does one man's heart reflect another." Did you hear that part? I did catch that. I thought that was interesting. >> Yeah. So, it's interesting because now I'm thinking about like in NLP there's mirroring and matching, >> right? When you want to build rapport with somebody. >> So, >> you'll uh >> Yeah. No, there's a lot of that a lot of stuff that just could kind of feel a little sleazy. Even when you're selling like a genuine product that is genuinely good for people, the interactions can feel kind of gross with the mirroring and the creating a sense of urgency and directing them to do something. You know what I mean? >> Yeah, I know what you mean. That was um matching. >> Did I do it right? >> But I would Oh, yes. >> You did it pretty good at it. You didn't even know I was doing it, by the way. But I was thinking to myself, >> what I was thinking, what's the difference between what King Solomon says about the heart reflects the heart and mirroring and matching? I I think the difference is King Solomon is talking about something that is automatic. It is hardwired, so to speak, into our nature. It's not a deliberate thing, and it's it's certainly not manipulative because you're not even doing it willfully. It's just when somebody sends out a certain emotional energy to you, it's only natural that you feel that energy back. So that's what he's talking about. >> In the NLP context, it's more deliberate. It's like it this this wouldn't be my natural reaction. And but I'm purposely doing this in order to uh manipulate in order to influence in a in a sort of side door type of way where instead of saying clearly what I'm trying to get the person to do. I'm sort of hacking the system, you know, using >> Exactly. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Little weird. >> Yeah. So, it's so interesting like how do h how how do they actually pull this off in marketing? like what do they do to um you know because I remember like for instance when I was a kid I used to hear a lot about subliminal messages and I don't know what the science is on that whether they because I heard that was debunked that it doesn't really work but I remember as a kid growing up they used to say yeah there was a study that was done where they had a bunch of people they made at a movie theater they put a one you know there's 24 frames a second they put in one frame uh they're saying buy popcorn and and everybody was running in the middle of the the theater buying popcorn in the middle of the movie. So I know about sub subliminal messages. Um but how do they do you know practically speaking how they use this kind of uh marketing this NLP or whatever it is like how is it actually done? >> Yeah. Yeah. And the example you brought up is the most popular example of how marketing has been manipulative. Everyone knows about that one. Sneaking it into the movie theaters and they marketing, you just kind of change the formula over time with culture. So right now in today's culture, the formula instead of subliminal messaging, sneaking it in between movie frames, it's um get a get a hook, get get a trigger, a state of mind. Let me grab your attention to create a sense of urgency >> and show you that a void. So now you feel that you have a void. I'm going to dig a little deeper and show you how this void is creating a problem in your life. And then we're going to twist and show you how I can help fill that void. And then I'm going to tell you to do you're going to do something. You're going to click the link in the bio. You're going to go get this. You're going to a call to action of time. That's the formula. So basically you're saying that that the the the technique would be to trigger somebody's sense of lack or scarcity or anxiety which most people either they potentially feel that way or maybe even they're actively feeling that way right now. And you just sort of trigger that and then you pivot over to your product pretending like your product is the solution to that >> unrest. Exactly. >> Okay. >> Now, the truth is that this is this goes back way before not only before social media and internet and even before film, but this this is bas basic sales. This is what every this is what every uh doortodoor salesman does is >> well not every not every door to sales but it it's it's an ancient technique. doesn't require any technology which is basically you push people's emotional buttons. You get them into an emotional state where the sale is no longer about the utility of the product that you're selling. It's more about you've created a sense of emotional lack in a person and then while they're feeling this sort of uh uneasy feeling, you suggest your product as a as a solution to that. And I guess enough people feel feel yucky feeling yucky that they're like, "Okay, maybe I'll just buy this thing and I'll and and I won't feel yucky anymore." And I guess it works often enough. >> Um >> Yeah. >> Yeah. basically how it is. >> Yeah. H Well, I guess so the your question really is is that okay to do that because you're in marketing. Like are you >> Yeah. How the Lord feel about this? >> Yeah, I like how you're phrasing that. How does the Lord feel about this? Meaning at the end of the day, those of us who believe in absolute morality, uh, believe that things are right and wrong, not because we like them or dislike them, but that there is a divine code and that we need to try as hard as we can to live in alignment with that that uh higher morality, that divine morality. And if and if God doesn't like also we believe I don't know if this is in alignment with your beliefs but um certainly this is something that I've been taught is that ultimately if we're misaligned with what the creator wants for us we can temporarily profit from it but ultimately it's it's not uh it's not the it's not a good direction. We will we will only suffer for it. You can't beat the system. You can't you can't you can't pull a fast one on God. So, you know, even if you would >> what you know, you can't really >> enjoy illgotten gains. And and people often ask about like, but there's so many people who are immoral who prosper and maybe even specifically the immoral people prosper. And you know the answer for me it's that doesn't keep me up at night because I know that first of all I know so many wealthy people who are miserable. Um it's not about how much money you make. It's how much peace you have from the money you have. So if if if you have peace and you have enough resources to buy what you need to live the life that you want to live, then you're fabulously wealthy. And in contrast, even if you make tons of money, but you don't have peace, so you're poor. Um, yeah. So, it's a good question. Such a good question. Are we allowed to use these methods in sales? Are we allowed to do it? And I'm just sort of >> Yeah. Can we manipulate towards good? >> You know, it's it's it's interesting. I'm thinking to myself, forget about sales for a second. Let's talk about something else. Let's talk about um can I use psychological manipulation to get a person to do a good deed like to sell something that's that's that's harder to justify. But let's say I knew that I could get somebody to do a good deed, but I if I would ask them to do it, they wouldn't do it. But if I would sort of go through a side door, I could get them to do it. Am I allowed to do that? That's an interesting question to ponder. >> No, it keeps me up at night because I do want to help people. I I see how >> and in your case your marketing health your your your husband's business which again I want to mention is um uh uh mace_momentum coaching right? Did I say it right? >> Yeah. You're going to make me blow >> okay on Instagram. Um, so you're selling health like ultimately you're not hurting anybody. Like if they >> if they buy what you're selling, it's going to improve their life. >> So are you allowed to Yes. >> Are you allowed to mash the aspirin into the applesauce and tell the kid that it's just applesauce? >> I like that analogy. >> Yeah. Yeah. I'm looking in the uh comments right now. We have such wise commenters here. Um so somebody wrote, "If it's a good cause that you believe in, then the marketing will speak for itself, even nonprofits. And maybe it's not about speaking to a lack, but reaffirming something good in them." Yeah, that's a good point that um it the product should speak for itself. But we know that when you use these subtle tactics, I'll call them subtle, that's a euphemism. Um, that more people will buy than if you take the direct approach. Um, yeah, it's a it's it's a it's a very good question. And I'll tell you something else just to complicate the question. We do it all the time without even knowing that we're doing it >> because a lot of >> communication is is is habitual. Like there are styles of communication >> that we engage in that are not even conscious. >> You learn at a young age what gets reaction and you don't even necessarily know you're doing it. Like if there's a certain posture that I stand in that makes people like me more, is it manipulative if I default to standing in that posture when I'm trying to communicate with people? Like I you could go to that extent and ask ask it even ask that question. Gosh, to go down the rabbit hole as far as we want to, you know, >> so I really I don't know the answer to this. I mean, at this point, I'm just thinking out loud and thinking that perhaps it depends on intent. Perhaps that if it's something beneficial, I don't know. But then on the other hand, on the other hand, that's supposed to mislead people. Very important. It's called genevas das. By the way, in in Jewish law, there's a whole concept called genevas das, which literally means it's such a interesting word, interesting term. It literally means stealing someone's mind. Misleading. >> Yeah. I don't want to steal anyone. >> Yeah. It's called But it's it's stealing their mind because when you give some when you misrepresent something to give somebody a false impression, what are you doing? You're not taking anything tangible from them, but you're taking their understanding of reality. you're you're stealing their their clarity, so to speak. But but that has very clear parameters. For instance, that would be like misrepresenting what it is that you're selling. So if if you >> Yeah. Thank >> like like for instance, I'll give you a classic example in Jewish law. Let's say you're selling, let's say a Jewish person is selling meat and a non-Jew wants to buy that meat and the non-Jew assumes the Jewish person is selling kosher meat because Jews eat kosher meat. You have to tell this if but let's say it's not kosher meat. The Jew who's selling the meat has to tell this non-Jewish person, "By the way, even though you don't need to keep kosher, and there's nothing wrong with you buying non-cooser, I have to tell you this is not kosher." Because if they're under the impression that the product is one thing, but you know that it's not, and you know that they think it's something that it's not, and you make the sale based on your relying on them not having that clarity, that's called genevous. You're not allowed to do that. Just a little tidbit. >> That's >> So I guess if if you try if you try to make somebody think that you that the product is something that it's not, that's that's no good. But >> yeah. Okay. Yeah. never that. >> But if the product is what it is and you're representing it truthfully and you're using your understanding of the human mind to be more compelling in your argument, I think that's got to be okay. I mean, we do, like I said, we do that all the time. Like if I like I'm I I'm a speaker. I I I know I don't sound like one right now, but I go, you know, I often give speeches. I know for a fact, for instance, that if I want to make a point, but the audience is is not in a calm state. They're not open. They're not receptive. Then I can make my point as eloquently as I want to, it's going to fall on deaf ears. But if I'll like let's say crack a joke and establish some rapport and put them at ease, then I can go make the point and they'll receive it. Now, is that manipulative? I mean, if my point was so compelling, I should have just gotten up on stage and started with my point. Just make your point and let people judge it on its own merits. And yet, that's not how people work. you have to sort of prepare them and you have to create a a context. You have to create a a relationship within which they they can they can hear you. And so, you know, you could make an argument that that's manipulative. And yet, I would say that that's the essence of communication. The essence of communication is establishing yourself as as as trustworthy before you make your point. >> I analogy a lot. >> Yeah, I >> I think that's helpful. I really I really like that analogy. That makes sense to me. And by the way, I'm ju I'm just continuing this analogy. There are what I consider to be okay ways of doing that. And then there are sleazy ways of doing that. Sleazy ways of doing that, I think, include fear-mongering, like where you get up there and you scare people about something and then when I mean that's what the news does, right? >> The water you're drinking is poison. Details at 11, >> right? Um, >> so you could do that. Like I could get up there and give a speech and be like, "Here's five reasons why your marriage could fall apart tomorrow and you don't even know it's coming." All right, I've got everyone's attention. I got their attention, right? Because everyone's going to be nervous. But it's it's it's sleazy. It's What makes it sleazy? Because it's fear-based. Maybe. Maybe because it's fear-based. Um, it's such an interesting question. >> I'm not even sure. >> Yeah, it keeps me up in Yeah. >> Yeah. I would like to think as long not trying to scare the general public and I am trying to lead people towards a healthier lifestyle. Uh maybe God would stamp his seal of approval on it. >> Yeah. Listen, I think that if you're sincere in your intention and you're ready to self-correct and if you're ever aware that something you did wasn't with the best of intentions that you would correct it, um then I think there's there's got to be blessing in that. I would also mention that an important part of there being blessing in your business is charity. Uh to take from your hard-earned work or the product, the produce, the the fruits of your hard-earned work and to share it with others. that elevates even the part that you that you keep for your own needs. That's very important. >> Very important. Um >> absolutely. I >> Yeah. And then also, you know, if people know that you're a person of faith, like if that's something that comes out and and usually it does, and especially in a in a service-based industry, because if it's just a product, you might not necessarily know is the guy who made your uh your widget uh a believer or not. Um, but with a service, you kind of get to know the person and you can pick up on it and you know they're a person of faith. And so if you're >> out there as someone who represents God, then you have to be all the more careful in your dealings that uh they are ethical. And that may even mean being a little bit extra cautious as far as you know when when I mean I know this for myself. I don't have a business but of a nonprofit and like if somebody is let's let's say somebody has a complaint about something uh you know we don't argue with them. We don't try to convince them it's not a problem. We either fix it for them or uh you know if if somebody donated towards something it's not what they wanted. We're not going to tell them well the money's already spent. No, I'll take it out of my own funds and I'll I'll replace it because, you know, we represent something. So, that's just the cost of representing what you represent. And you have to believe that there's there's blessing in that. >> Yeah. And that's kind of why I wanted to get this in my heart because I do we, you know, my husband and I, we are faithful. you know, we're not Jewish, we're Christian, but you know, Christians take their advice from, you know, the Jew Jesus. So, I wanted to call in and get your advice because I'm like, I I feel held to a higher standard. I feel, you know, really, my ethics could be under a microscope. Let's get this marketing thing right. I don't want to scare people into running on the treadmill endlessly. That's not what we're trying to do, you know. >> Yeah. Yeah, >> I think I I I think that your intention is admirable and I think if you focus on that about being transparent and about being honest and about having the the benefit of your customers always forefront in your mind, then I think uh that will that will guide you well. And like I said, if anybody ever out something to you that that is questionable, you can just correct it. >> Absolutely. I appreciate you picking this apart with me. It it kind of helps sort it out in my brain a lot. >> Okay, good. I appreciate it. Thanks for the call. It's very interesting. Fascinating topic. >> Well, thank you. >> Okay, >> thank you for letting me call in. >> Absolutely. Thank you so much. Okay. Wow, that was fascinating. >> Have a good one. >> You too. Be well. That was really interesting. That was a fascinating call. Okay. Um, yeah. So, one second. I think we have another caller. You said, "Do we have another caller?" >> They just emailed. We'll respond to them >> and they'll be on soon. >> Okay. Amazing. All right. So, that was an interesting call. I really enjoyed that thinking about that. I wish I had more uh clarity about it. Something interesting I never really thought about before. I mean I guess I have thought about it but not to that extent. Yetsy writes, "I heard a story similar to that how a darian tried to convince people to donate for a floor in the shaw so that when the shaw goes dish with mashia they can go yeah I heard it was the I don't I don't know if that's accurate but that's how I heard it came to a shul and they had a dirt floor and the rabbi said maybe you could help me to Oh no he even even asked him like why do you only have a dirt floor he says because the congregants are not very generous about building or repairing the shul. So, we haven't been able to put in a a wooden floor. So, uh gets up or supposedly that's how I heard the story and he says to the the congregants, you know, the the go says or Msiah comes all the schuls are going to pick up and relocate to shalim and attach themselves to the ves mikdash. means the it's a gimmodilla. It's a Talmud says that in the messianic era all of the synagogues are going to be be attached adjacent to the holy temple in Jerusalem. However that works because we'll see that when it happens because it's rather miraculous sounding. At any rate, so he says um so when the shul picks up and flies to Jerusalem, but it doesn't have a floor. So you guys are all going to be standing here. You're going to be left standing on the dirt floor. Dirt on the ground. You've put in a floor in the shell. When the shaw picks up, you're going to go with it. So that was all you had to say. And then they they found the money. They came up with the money for the for the floor for the Shaw. Yeah, that that's a good example of uh using a little fear-mongering. Can I say it was so wrong? I don't know. May maybe it was justified. Yeah. But we try to avoid using fear as a motivator. Try. Okay. All right. We have two callers who are actually on. All right. So, you said I'll just pick one of them. Could you tell one of them? And then we'll we'll go to the next one. Try to do both. Welcome our next caller. You're on the line. >> Hi. Is it me? >> Yep, it's you. >> Hi. How are you? >> Thank god I'm doing good. So, what do you want to talk about? >> Uh, budgeting. Um, my question is as follows. Um, I have very conflicting feelings about uh budgeting. I'm not sure what the right way to look at it is. Um, from one hand, I feel like it's the responsible thing to do um to like to know what's going on with your financials. And my husband and I do budget every month. But sometimes I feel like maybe the right way is not to budget and um like two things you know there's braho when things are hidden and also when like you know like to leave the like to leave it hidden for hashem to feel the difference like if there is a difference in the negative and like like you see this many times like people have big big families and like they make yumub and and like no it doesn't match on paper like how much money they're making. They don't know exactly, but somehow they it just, you know, comes and Hashem covers it. Yeah. Such a good question. Basically, does trust in Hashem mean that you don't necessarily have a plan that makes sense on paper? That's basically what you're saying. Yeah. that and also the practical aspect of it. Should you budget or should you not like I'm not talking about people who are spending crazy money and I'm talking about taking care of your daily needs, taking care of your family, basic things, not anything insane, not anything, >> right? Nothing extra like literally paying bills. >> Yeah. >> Right. >> Yeah. >> Should you make sure that on paper you have enough to cover the bills? Okay. And if not, >> yeah, >> then and what if not what if you don't have enough to cover the bills? >> So, like plenty of people like they have like large families. They it doesn't make sense on based on their income, how much, you know, it costs to to clothe the whole family, how much it cost to feed the whole family, especially when it comes to >> and somehow they don't know. They're not budgeting. They're not writing it down. They don't know, but somehow it gets covered. >> Yeah. Somehow that's true. way. >> That's true. >> Is And were you saying this is a point of contention between you and your husband or you're on the same page about it? >> No, not at all. We're on the same page. We budget every month, but like I have to like I often wonder like is this the right thing to do? Is this like how we're supposed to do it or are we supposed to just you know >> I love this to to some extent raising a family and being able to pay for it all is a miracle. I shouldn't say to some extent. It is period. It is It is a miracle. It is a miracle. >> Um I if you would have told me when I was 25 when I got married how much money I'm going to have to make in order to get to this point, you know, I'm 51. So if you would have told me how much money I would have to make over those 25 years, I would have fainted. I would have literally fainted. I would have said, "There's no way. What am I going to win the lottery? There's no way I'm going to touch that amount of money in my lifetime, let alone be expected or obligated to have to have that amount of money to to raise a family. And somehow looking back, it worked out. And it's not that there weren't times that were very tight. It's not that there weren't times when we were in debt and I paying off those credit card bills every month and definitely and then every time you make a major purchase for for sure buying a house is a huge leap of faith and you're going to the closing you're not even sure how you're going to make it work and then but even things like buying a new car it's often like where is this even coming from? I'm just thinking in my own personal experience how many times it didn't add up on paper and somehow I mean I'm not in debtor's prison. I don't know if that still exists but you know the putits didn't throw me in the dungeon. I I mean I mean thank God and I'll sh I'll share this publicly. I don't mind. I think it sets a good example. I have an 800 credit score. How's that possible? You know that's pretty wild. That's right. >> That's pretty wild. How How is that even possible? Um, by the way, I don't carry any debt other than a mortgage uh and and car payments. I don't I do not carry credit card debt. I I haven't done that in 15 years. Um, yeah, I'm allergic to it now. >> That's amazing. And if I can't pay it off, if I can't pay it off this month, I don't put it on a credit card. You just don't you doesn't you don't get it. If if if you can't pay it off in 30 days, you don't buy it on a credit card. You treat I treat a credit card like a like a debit card with a 30-day delay. That's how I treat it. Um but I'm not like a Dave Ramsey guy who thinks you shouldn't use credit cards. I think that's foolish. I'm more of a Dansteel guy. Actually, shout out to Dan Elliff, my friend. And I love credit cards because I have millions of points that I've used for travel. And uh yeah, I'm very into the credit cards and the perks and you know, lounge access and all that kind of stuff. I could talk I could give a whole show about that, by the way, about credit card points and miles and credit card perks. But at any rate, um going back to the main point, it is a miracle. The whole thing's a miracle. So, am I advising you to forget about the budget and just let things work out? No. And I'm telling and and I'll tell you why I'm not advising you that. Tell you why. And let's talk through let's talk through this. Okay. One thing that's very important to understand is as you know our livelihood really depends on blessings from on high. We don't generate our livelihood through work. We know that. Um, >> yeah, >> you know, it's it's really just a reflection of our of our talk and of our trust of our confidence in Hashem. But here's the thing, trust in Hashem is a very very relative concept and it's different for everybody. If someone is going to be nervous about something, like I'll give you an example. Somebody just asked me this recently. Um forgetting who who it was, but this like maybe a week ago. Somebody said um you know if I really have been talking in Hashem will I gave me a specific example. It was like a bold move. It wasn't like wasn't like betting their life savings but it was something you know that was is a risky financial move and you know but if I have been talking should I do that and and and I said well I don't know how much are you going to worry about it because here's the thing the opposite of beten which means trust in Hashem is anxiety just like trust in Hashem attracts abundance. Anxiety repels abundance, which is why people with a poverty mentality remain poor. When you're nervous about money, you push away money. And and and and that's why I in this particular instance, I asked this person, "How nervous are you going to be about it?" Because if you're going to be nervous about it, that itself will undermine the possibility for success. And you can't tell me, well, then I'll just choose not to be nervous about it. Either you're at that level or you're not. Either that's your personality or it's not. You can't fake it. Either you're really resonating on that frequency or you're not. So here's the thing. If you want to go and learn shabbat talking a few times and get yourself to a place where you really really really believe in your bones that you don't need such a detailed budget and somehow it'll all work out and you really believe that then I think it'll be fine. But if for whatever reason, maybe because of your background, maybe because just your personality, maybe because of, I don't know, any reason that just seems reckless to you and you can't bring yourself to do it and be relaxed with it, then then don't do it. Because if you're going to worry about it and it's going to make you anxious, then the anxiousness itself will repel the money, god forbid. >> So, you hear what I'm saying? It's like it really depends on you. But I I want to bring up a point just for the flip side of it about the budgeting that it's not also only about trust is that when we started budgeting a couple of years ago, um we realized that we had $4,000 extra a month. >> Oh. >> Until then, like we were just we were just like I don't know, we were just kind of using it. Like we didn't even know that we had that extra money. And then we started putting it away in a couple months. we had like a lot of money saved up. So, there's also that flip side like if you don't know what's going what's happening and things are just going and going and you're kind of just spending it around, right? >> It's right from both ends. >> Yeah. I mean, it's very easy to let $4,000 people think that's so much money, but I'm telling you, in a big family, it's not it's not on the scale of government waste. I won't put it at that level, but $4,000 can easily slip by if you don't know that you have it. >> Very easily it could slip by just uh you know, a few extra pizzas here and there and you know, before you know it, you don't even >> you don't you don't even track that it's gone. Um but when you know it's there and you know that it's extra money, then you can be careful about putting it away. So yeah, that's a very compelling argument that in your case budgeting brought more money. Um, yeah. So I think that goes back to what I was saying before. It's >> not always there's I mean there's been stages. This is years ago, but yeah, like you know, >> but this goes back to what I was saying before. It's like what makes you feel more at peace? Like it's never a positive thing to proceverate on money. Like there there's a there's a there's a verse King Solomon says uh the wise don't have bread and what that means is explains explanation that somebody who is too wise he's a wise guy so to speak it's what's called hisakmos someone who's overthinking his money will not have money won't have bread you means money. Um, so I guess it's like if for you having the budget allows you then to not think so much about money and to focus on what's really important, then that's the right way. >> That's the key. I hear that's I think that is the key. Yeah. >> And you have to know what your personality is. And thank God sounds like you and your husband are on the same page about it. Cuz imagine if one of you could only calm down if you had a written budget. The other one could only calm down if you never count your money. >> Then you'd have a you'd have a little discord over there. >> Thank God. I know like financial is usually like a big stress between couples. So I'm grateful that that's not one of that. >> Yeah. Yeah, thank God. >> Can I ask one more question? >> Sure. Sure. >> Um, it wasn't in my email, but um I was listening to a live that you did um a couple weeks back, I think, and you're talking about acceptance. Um like how you know if like you're accepting or you're so or like you're just not you're maybe distracting. So you were talking about like behaviors like unhealthy behaviors like if you're doing unhealthy behaviors then you haven't reached a place of acceptance but I feel like uh life is busy and that in itself it's not an unhealthy behavior or it's not it's not anything negative but life is busy thank god and like yeah you can't like you're not always like in that like head space of thinking about whatever it is how do you know if you're just getting busy or you've actually come to a place of real acceptance. >> Yeah, it's Yeah, it's a classic question. Am I healing or am I just getting used to the pain? So, yeah, I don't remember >> or then just like numb with just with, you know, life because you're just busy. You're not thinking about it, you're not feeling it. >> Yeah. So, I don't remember the live. Was this on YouTube or on Instagram? >> YouTube. >> It was on YouTube. Oh, so it was one of the Thursday night call-in shows. >> Yeah. >> Uh-huh. Do you remember the context like what the caller's question was? >> I think it was actually in a conversation with um your son. >> Oh. Yeah. >> Yeah. I remember that. It was actually right after Tishabove. I remember that. Yeah. you came on. >> Yes. >> Yes. Okay. So, your question is if acceptance means that you can deal with life without distraction and you think that that's what you're doing, but who knows? Maybe you're just so busy, maybe life itself is making you so busy that that's the distraction and you're not really practicing acceptance. Is that what you're saying? >> Correct. Yeah, exactly. >> That is a wonderful thoughtful question. How would you know? How could you isolate that variable and determine what your true mental and emotional state is >> because that's what I feel like I often struggle with. Like I'll convince myself that I'm okay with something for example, but then and it's really I'm just like I'm not sitting and thinking about it but then like it'll come up or I'll I'll like take the time to sit and reflect and then I'll see that I'm not I haven't accepted it. It was just that I was busy that you know like I wasn't doing anything negative. I was being positive but it was just you know >> very interesting question I suppose that's why we need quiet times for reflection what we call keshman and effish a spiritual inventory and >> we do that usually um well Thursday Tonight actually is a common night for that because it's the last week night week night of the of of the week. Um we're going into Shabas tomorrow night is Shabas. So Thursday night's like the last night of the weekday and uh it's often a time where at the bedtime schma we do a little inventory, a little check-in with ourselves. So I think maybe >> so it's got to be something conscious. >> Look, there are levels. If if you're able to live your life and feel that you're at peace, so that's already an accomplishment. If then you go and you do some introspection, you realize that you're not entirely at peace, then you can you can go even deeper. You can go to another level. Think there are levels. >> It's not like a black and white. And like do I accept this? >> Correct. It's not black and white. There are gradations >> for sure. >> Well, that's right. I guess I have to change my perspective on looking at like have I come to accept this or not or >> or how deeply am I living with my acceptance? How entirely integrated is my acceptance? Right. >> Yeah. Right. >> Okay. Awesome. Thank you so much. I appreciate you taking time to answer the question. >> Of course. Of course. Thank you for calling in. Okay. >> Have a great night. >> Have a great night. We have another caller who's waiting in the wings. So, we're going to bring on our our next caller. S's the next caller there. >> Hi. >> Hi there. Um, I'm really grateful that she spoke up first because I don't want to spend two hours wasting everyone else's time besides yours. Um, okay. My question, actually, I've debated sending in a question this week, but then when when I saw the theme, I thought it was a good question. So, um, and it's a question I had for a long time, but if if we're supposed to live our lives and with an expectation that Mashiach is coming right now, how do we how do we >> I await his coming every day. Not just >> do I have a 401k? >> Not just every day. I I I know that hash that the Mashiach will come someday, but every day I expect today could be the day that Mashiach comes. So, do you have a 401k? Can I admit something to you? >> Sure. >> Not to me to for your listeners. >> Okay. I have had people explain it to me before. I don't really know what a 401k is. And I don't know what and I don't really know what an IRA is. And I don't know what a Roth IRA is. And I don't know if the >> But those are all convolutions. Those are all convolutions by the usurers trying to confuse the people. But in reality, the question is the question is it's very simple. It's Do I lock up money today? >> I can't that I'll be penalized. >> The whole life insurance also. >> No, don't get me started. >> No, I don't have the whole life insurance. I have term and I By the way, my my term life insurance is expiring soon. I got it when I >> That is That is a problem. >> I got it when I was 34. I got was I 34? I think I think I was 34. I got 20-year term when I was 34. I got $2 million of 20 year I got two $1 million policies a 20-year term when I was 34. Now I'm 51. My gosh, I'm so nervous. What am I going to do? Okay. There's the So, so it's funny because in the last caller mentioned that her and her husband kind of are on the same page. >> Yes. and and my wife and I are also on the same page, but the DAPA in the sense that she has everything written down and I just need to reassure her that the money is going to be in the account when it needs to be in the account. >> But but life insurance is important because >> do we lock up money if we know >> correct? So you can invest your money, right? because when you need it, you can take the money out. >> But a 401k, >> you're there's a there's a penalty for taking the money out early. >> Yeah. >> So, you're actually by putting the money in today, you're actually >> saying to God, >> I need someone might not call me. No, forget. I might I don't need it. I already budgeted. But but someone else might not need it. >> What do you mean? You know, like if I someone calls me for Tedducka, I won't be able to have that money for them. >> Oh, >> because of my fear of the future. >> Ahu. Uhhuh. Wow. It's a deep question because I'm worried about what's going to be in what is it 20 years or how long? >> Whatever. When I'm 59 and a half. Yeah. >> Yeah. Therefore, I'm not liquid now. And if there would be a a good cause, I wouldn't be able to get involved in that good cause. Forget about a money-making opportunity. You're talking about something charitable where there's a there's a pressing need and you wouldn't be liquid to be able to help out because you locked your money up for when you're 59 and a half. >> That's and that's for the poor people. But the rich people have even cooler ways of locking up millions of dollars, you know, in trusts and in foundations and and all that stuff for their kids, their grandkids, their great grandkids, and it's much more complicated. So, what do what do you do? >> Yeah. You know, I could be wrong here, but I think it's similar to what I told the previous caller about trust in Hashem being a very relative concept that's different for everybody. And to me, the the common denominator between all healthy approaches to money is the lack of anxiety. So, what am I supposed to tell you? If there's a guy who cannot relax if he doesn't have a 401k and I know such guys by the way I know such people either because that's how they were raised or whatever personality if they don't have a retirement savings they cannot sleep at night. They literally are are feeling like they could be homeless at any second. So what are we supposed to tell a guy like that? But on the other hand >> work on your >> right. Yeah. Right. So, it's easy to tell him that, but if that's not how he feels, what's he supposed to do? Lie to God? So, you know, really everything it it's it's comfort level. If somebody says, "I don't need to have a retirement account and I don't need to even have savings and and they're comfortable with that." What should I do? Tell the person tell them that they're wrong? I wouldn't tell either of these people they're wrong. Everyone's got to do what what you what you feel right with. And that's not just like, you know, moral relativism and saying whatever you feel is right is right. It happens to be that in this particular context, it is very subjective because it's all based on your emotional energy. If you're vibrating a frequency of abundance, that's what's going to come to you. Now, you could get to that through working on your ben and stretching that that trust muscle and maybe something that would feel irresponsible to you today will feel will feel uh normal a year from now. But if it doesn't feel that way, then uh yeah, I wouldn't advise somebody. I wouldn't no I have clarity. I would not tell somebody if you really trust God, don't have a retirement account because the guy who has one is not going to be tr he's not going to trust God more if if he cashes it out. It's going to just distract him. If I tell the guy, if you really trust God, you'll cash out your retirement account right now. And then he goes and he does it. You think it's going to increase his trust in God? It's just going to increase his anxiety and he's going to worry more about money. And God forbid that he'll he'll think less about God, more about money and and then the the the anxiety about the money will cause him to have even less money. So have less spirituality and less materiality. So no, I wouldn't tell anyone to do that. >> That's a good answer. Put it all into your retirement account and then you won't be able to think about it. >> Ah, that's counterintuitive. Put it all into your retirement. Lock it all up. >> Lock it all up. >> And then you'll need bucken for just to put food on the table every day. You'll literally need mana from heaven. I like that approach. >> Well, that's the the joke I tell whenever my friends call me worried about money. I tell them, listen, you just have to stay alive till Msiah comes. It's not so hard, >> right? Not such a marathon. >> Yeah. That's good. And so, so you're saying that that that the the comfort it's because I really push for you should always be a little bit uncomfortable like you know living a living life comfortably and is almost like complacent like there's no growth in your comfort zone. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> But when it comes to you know maybe you shouldn't test should be taken that's a little reckless. Yeah. I don't believe in testing it. I uh I believe that Hashem creates the tests for us and just getting through life. >> Yeah. >> Will will naturally force you to expand your bat at the right pace. Trust Hashem's pace. You don't walk into the gym and tell the trainer, "Hey, I'm benching 400 pounds today." No, no, no. You're gonna bench how much I tell you to. That's it. Don't don't don't tell me how much you're benching today. >> Okay. You want to sing the callin show song with me? >> Absolutely. But first, we have to give a shout out to Mace Coaching. >> Yeah. Mace momentum_coaching on Instagram. He will help you get into shape. Okay. Thank you for that. Okay. You want to help me sing the I I I I need to learn Rambom and I got to go to sleep. I'm going to Philadelphia for Shabas. >> Oh, let's do it. >> Going to Marian station for Shabatone. I think all the >> That's cool. >> Sherman. >> Yeah, exactly. Very good. Excellent. You know your kabad geography. >> That's where Kobe went to That's where Kobe went to high school. Lower Marian. >> Got another reference. Kobe Kobe Bryant. >> Oh, I don't know who that is. He died in a helicopter. >> Oh, come on. >> I don't know. I I stopped I stopped watching basketball after Jordan retired. >> Okay, fine. That's fair. But no, Robert Sherman's a champion and and and his claims of fame is not Kobe. He's actually I've been there multiple times. I even have an autographed hockey hat I locked in his house. But uh >> you stayed in the basement? >> Yeah, >> I stayed I don't know. I probably kicked Mendel out of his room, so whatever. I don't know where I stayed. >> Uhhuh. Upstairs. They have a basement. >> Yeah, in the basement, actually. Yeah, they have a basement. I remember. >> Yeah. >> Wow. >> Okay, so I got to Oh, well, hold on. Let's do all three of us. Okay. Okay. Let's go. Hold on. Hold on. One second. Count. >> Call to the call show. >> Show. >> Oh, you doing a little harmonization there. Call into the show. You got to call into the show. Call to the call show. >> That's beautiful. >> All right. Quarter 11. Good enough. Good job. >> Yeah, good job. >> Thanks for your help. >> My pleasure. Okay. What an amazing show tonight. We had such powerhouse callers. Every one of them should be blessed. That was galdic. All right, guys. I gotta go learn Rambam threeim. Um, say and I don might have early, so I have to say to the >> also. Yeah, >> a special thank you to the sponsor of the call-in show, the call-in system 9 by9 tech. Speaking about business and having this sess this segment be about money, if anyone has a small business that needs uh uh phone needs for their small business, go to 9 by9 tech for all your small business phone service needs >> and ask for who? Follow the website. >> Okay, so it's 9x9 >> 9x9.com. I'm putting it in the chat. Okay. Phone systems. Gavaldic. Thank you, Isro. Okay. You want to sing anything before we sign off? >> No, thank you. >> Okay. [Music] Hey, [Music] I high [Music] [Applause] Hey, [Music] hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey. [Music] Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey. [Music] Good night.