The Day that the Spirit of the Beis HaMikdash Died

Going back to the beginning of the Sugya, the part of the Sugya that discusses Uva Uva Peritzin that we've talked about many times over the years of the below Mishnah. And that is as follows. The Gemara in Daf 71, this is still 105 says I'm a Molly Had I been a wife in the generation that instituted the Tainus of Tisha B'Av like a Siri I would have not been the fast on the 9th day of Av, but rather I would have been the fast on the 10th day of Av. Because the majority of the was burnt on the 10th day of Av, not on the 9th day of Av. And as a result, that would have been my vote. I wasn't there, they didn't ask me. And of course, the fast goes down in history as being the Tisha B'Av and not a Siri B'Av. But said Rebbe What's the Rabbanan's response to that? At the end of the day, we don't go based away the time that the majority of the was the majority of the was destroyed. We go based on the and being that the happened on Tisha B'Av it's for that reason this fast goes down as being on Tisha B'Av. The Sofer in many places in Tshuvis Orach Chaim Siman 34 and in Tshuvis Yoreh De'ah Siman Resh Lamed Gimmel and in Tshuvis Yoreh De'ah Siman Resh Samech Daled U'va'ois Makomous says a beer flo in this Gemara that the decided to impose the Tainus on the day that the started, not on the day that the of the took place. It's based on the Gemara in Daf Nun Beis Amud Beis where the Gemara says that there's an idea of Peritzin V'Chilulu that when the Peritzin entered the they were the and they turned the into Chulin. Says the Sofer, it's true that the took place when? On Yud B'Av. But when did it start? The of the was on Tes B'Av. >> [laughter] >> The of the Tes B'Av doesn't just mean oh that's when it began. If that's when it began, that's when the Peritzin V'Chilulu took place. And if that's when the Peritzin V'Chilulu took place, that's when it became Chulin. That means the became Chulin. The of the happened on Yud B'Av. But said the that was Avodah Zarah. It was a bias that at that point had already been Chulin. Because the didn't of the that departed as soon as Peritzin was happened already on Tes B'Av. And that's the of the Gemara. That the Rabbanan held because that was the Peritzin. And at that point it was already Chulin. And if at that point it was Chulin so that of course is what it is we're mourning. That's why the Tainus is on Tes B'Av and the Tainus is on the is not on Yud B'Av. But I was thinking this Sofer is so compelling when he is dating that I think we need to now pose the question on Rebbe Nachman. Rebbe Nachman, why did you feel that it was more appropriate to make the Tainus on Yud B'Av, not on Tes B'Av? The of the that's Avodah Zarah. Aren't we concerned about the spiritual the spiritual dimension of the not the physical? And if that went away, if that departed 100% not 100% on Tes B'Av then the Rabbanan are right. Meaning I think this Sofer is such fire that we need to be a little bit of Nachman. So I looked around a little bit and I found a in the floor Amish. And this is in the Torah from my going to Nachman. It's an often Nachman. It's in Tainus in Perek Aleph. But I think in order to appreciate it because the Nachman is written so short we need a little bit of an introduction. And that is we learned the Gemara together, spent a considerable amount of time of Uva Peritzin V'Chilulu. This idea that's thrown around a lot. As shared in the today's Daf or really the end of yesterday's Daf here in Daf Nun Beis Amud Beis. The on this Gemara asks a bomber on the Gemara. So let's just over the Gemara. It began with a question that Rebbe asked Rebbe. that were used in the matter of my was not a of Avodah Zarah. Are you allowed to use those in the and not allowed to use those in the Meaning if you didn't if is not a for sure you'd be allowed to use those in the What's What's the question? The question is did make a not to use them or not? >> [snorts] >> So Rebbe said I have a Raya. First he had forgotten the Raya, but then he was reminded of it. Said I have a Raya. I have a Raya from a Parsha in Nach. Divrei Hayamim Beis Perek Tes Pasuk Yud Tes. The context over there is Achaz who was the father of who was a terrible Rasha. And he had the defiled the by using for Avodah Zarah. After Achaz dies, comes and he wants to clean up the He He takes those and and what does he do with them? He hides them. Said Rebbe, why did he hide those Oh because they were used for Avodah Zarah. No. They don't become that were used for Avodah Zarah, they were Kodesh. So there's no way Achaz has the ability to defile those Kodesh. Why did he hide them? Must be because there's a sensitivity that if it was used for something that is reminiscent of Avodah Zarah, we're not going to use it for Avodah Well, if that's the truth of for those says Rebbe, I think I didn't that should be the case as it relates to the that were used in I feel that Avodah Zarah. Right, that was Rebbe's response. Good. Then the said I think we have a Raya to Rebbe from another episode in Jewish history. And that is the Chanukah story. And we know the came into the and they defiled the And one of the things they did was is they brought abominations. They brought Avodah Zarah on the And when took control again of the he said what are we going to do with the We can't go ahead and bring on it. That's off limits. Maybe we should break it. Can't do that. Maybe we should break it and clean it. We can't do that. Maybe we should use it. We can't do that. So what did they decide? One of the would house it. It was put in the That's what they did with the Says the I understand. What was the problem with using it? Shouldn't have been a problem. In other words, so when the defiled it, they didn't make it Avodah Zarah. So what's the issue? Oh it's a So you see again another to Rebbe. Rebbe brought a Raya from Divrei Hayamim Beis Perek Achaz and Says the I mean to say we could have a Raya from here as well. But the was The said no, that when the went and did their thing to the they actually defiled the And the And the reason they were able to defile the is because the Pasuk says Uva Peritzin V'Chilulu. And being that they defiled it, they made it They made it was If it was they were right. And if they were now they have a right to make it So it's real Avodah Zarah. As a result, this is something that's going to be off limits. It's for that reason there's nothing they could do about it. Let the Let the Gemara address that. But the bottom line is it's for that reason it's going to be off limits. Wait, the the obvious question that really all of us should have asked. And that is I don't understand. To the extent that there's something called Uva V'Chilulu. And that's why there's no Raya to our Sugya from the stones of the that were defiled by the Then how did Rebbe bring a Raya from Achaz and What was his Raya? When Achaz went and he was Avodah Zarah with his whole Really didn't make it Why didn't he make it because it belongs to So why are we hiding it? Oh must be there's a sensitivity. What do you mean? Of course he made it Uva Peritzin V'Chilulu which made it And to the extent that it made it So now it's and that's why you have to hide it. There's no Raya to Rebbe from the But there's a Raya to Rebbe In fact, Rebbe himself is bringing a Raya to his from Achaz and This is the famous So the you have to say that this is this This idea of Uva Peritzin V'Chilulu is an incredibly novel idea. The Peritzin entered the have become What does this even mean? So says the It's possible to me that the reason this works is with the Parsha of So we know there's a Parsha of in the Torah. You're not allowed to benefit from If you do benefit from what happens? The is Chulin. So says the This idea of Uva Peritzin V'Chilulu it works with the laws of Meaning you want to understand a little bit better, learn That's how this works. If that's the case, it's Says the The Mishnah says in There's no There's no by of the Kodesh. In other words, you're not allowed to be after you already in the because by the Kodesh don't make the go to Chulin. The not really our Sugya because there's only by there's no by Kodesh. And the of the are Kodesh and as a result there's no So he says half of a fellow. >> [snorts] >> Achaz and they were handling the killing of the base hamikdash. The killing of the base hamikdash in my life a mile there's no me or above our principle works with the being that there's no me or such a reason you had a business is not going to work over the is Kelly the was and that's why the is over there there was a deal of that's the terror to the says the you can have to say one more cuz it's that only a year could be my one a guy can't be my one this must be if that's the case over the killer law is talking about the that were it's not the I mean says the because it's working with the and only a year is able to be so in his a sham he says the what the is saying mom is has no to me he says why number one you're making this distinction between killer and the killer man are not subject to me or that's why there's no me or over the is not a killer the is not a killer ain't killer the killer in the base was the of course it's a killer and if there's no over the killer because there's no me or by killer then they couldn't be over the killer by the you see in the of course there was over the killer by the that's number one killer number two the says there's no me or on killer the killer is given he said not just that it's clear that over the killer the killer the killer of over the killer is referring to the base what does it mean over where's the the base killer the killer what the base the killer says the is the base base is definitely killer and the killer yet you see there's over the killer if it's working with the so how could it work so says the it's possible that over the killer has nothing to do with me or what is it it's a new killer there's a new killer that's called over the killer that when the killer and says the man after the killer when those killer enter the base killer they have an ability to be I if that's the case then how come by the there was no over the killer so who was office was a year he wasn't there you had and that was being over that has nothing to do with over the killer over the killer when the enemy attacks when they come in over the killer the killer say not I mean over the killer the killer they have the ability of the killer but a year which was the with the killer over there there's no over the killer I'll go upon him there's a lot going on here in this between the and the number one what's the difference between and and between the according to the office of the killer killer killer there's no me or by killer the there's me or by killer according to office of the killer were as opposed to the story of the the were not they were over the killer man another thing that's going on over here is whether the over the killer is by man that's what the says cuz if it works with the me or it has to be over by or over by that's the killer that's what the says but more fundamentally the takeaway is we have over the in the what's possible over the killer according to the man it's working with the me or according to the it's a killer called over the killer law if you miss pointing in this for one second there's an incredible Indian going on here the said that the of over the killer is referring to the base itself the killer referring to the end of the base the killer law and they defiled it they rendered it literally right that's possible what's going on in in this we know that there's a big killer arguably the biggest of all time right in the conversation the killer the killer the killer law this is the the killer different and talk about it in different places the killer law what happened to over the killer the was just that the killer in this in the of over the killer is referring to the killer for sure the killer became well if the killer became this should resolve the question the killer the killer the killer law what are you talking about the killer the killer the killer law over the killer it's game over this should be common Islam it should be finished right but how is it over cuz it's possible over like this the says there's a a himself and this is Marcus you test that addresses this and that is we've spoken over the years so many times about the killer over the past over the killer the killer the killer law but as it relates to Jerusalem and the base killer the killer the killer the killer law meaning according to the and over the killer and over the killer but if you go over the killer killer that should over the killer the killer the killer as it relates to the but as it relates to the base killer the killer the killer law the rabbit is massive over the and the rabbit sheet is just the opposite the rabbit holds the killer the killer the killer law lots of love I over the killer the killer this is already a new is killer the killer the killer law but only as it relates to over the as it relates to the and the base it's like the killer in other words according to the rabbit today is over the killer the killer over the killer over the killer but today according to somebody goes over the right the rabbit famous is not going to be doesn't mean it's over the killer but the bottom line is the rabbit sheet is the exact opposite of the now over the years we've spoken out the over the so many times cuz this is over what's over the there's no over the but there is over the over the cuz over the was over the killer that as soon as the land was taken away from us so we don't have it anymore but over the and the base is and the never departed from the so that so that remain but what's the rabbit the rabbit holds just the opposite it's the rabbit sheet is that over the is over the law over the over the law so the is the rabbit sheet is rooted in the one of those is Marcus you test take a look at the in Marcus you test the himself asks this and the says one line ready it's one line in the the man over the over the killer law over the over the over the killer over the killer law says the you want to know in that sheet of this is the that he may not worry about over the retain its killer where did it go if you hold over the then go anywhere but there's nothing to say that even if it's retained but the base is gone you know why because of this managed because over the killer law then cause that over the should go away this is a managed the is if you take another look at that that we've quoted so many times in your over the right before the over the says his word of test right we may also right before he says this the first line for over the maybe the rabbit's going to argue means that rabbit holds over the yeah but over the no over over the killer the killer the killer over the killer the killer the killer over the the killer the killer the killer the killer I see here in the the edition of the they bring that I'm going to observe over the of Pittsburgh fame the great Sinai said on his on his over the I over the Marcus the killer the killer the killer over the the killer the killer the killer but I'll go upon him it's really an over man so what emerges over here is an unbelievable that and that is that if you hold like the over the in the that over the killer is not me or but there's a special over the that when the over the end of the base it defiles the base and it's true for the killer the base it was true for the killer and over the over the over the true for the base itself cuz that's [laughter] what the says over over the killer the killer says over the are you ready this was all the introduction says over the over the over the I want to say over the over talking says I'm going to tell you over the over because it emerges if you hold over the killer law you have to hold that as it relates to over the it's going to be like the killer that's how the math works out cuz you said what's the over the over the killer the the over the over the killer is how could it be over the killer over the over the says the man we should tossed obviously the Ramban literally tossed my stuff your desk that's beside and that that emerges from the singers that are is kitchen loss of love I not just a mixed up the exact opposite of the sheet of Rambam sheet that we understand what's in this sheet right that mixed up it's still beer about Shana still here but how can it be here the terrorists priests of the law and this is also I eat that I write maybe this is what the rabbis get title Baba priests of the law right it has to be if you hold up the Ramban's priests of the law then what emerges what emerges is there's no kosher with my nose out soaked ready soaked the more says in normal days I'm if somebody today would bring a carbon outside of the doors are you for holding a lot of cookies Rabbi said I have but Schlock he said papa Rabbi said hi cuz we showed kitchen of the kitchen loss of love and what's the criteria to be higher for it has to be something that you could have brought into the mixed up but it says so if you could have brought it into the and you did it and you did it by you're going to be high Rabbi said she does your high but Schlock he says your papa what do you see from there Rabbi said she does your high but not only regarding regarding I mixed up as well because to be high for being my love is my nose out it's not enough that you hold that I chose high for my stress you have to hold my love of bias that is Rabbi said she does exclusion I mixed up as my nose out if this I mixed up as my nose out what does that mean that means that there's no for the law so for my simply have to be my nose out to talk this way Rabbi obviously doesn't hold of priests of the law cuz in the world of the Ramban if you hold of priests of the law there can't be I mixed up as my nose out and if Rabbi holds kitchen loss of love I for the mixed up I'm my love is my nose out high if that means Rabbi said she does that there's no over priests of the law says Rabbi that's where Rabbi said I'm my love is my nose out like a lot of Siri with Rubble by Mr. What did the time know as how to the what's the what's the in the time of the it's because priests of the law this minute they came in they defiled it what did we say is the so what's Rabbi hold Rabbi holds they didn't defile it Rabbi said she does Rabbi he doesn't hold of priests of the law that's Rabbi you want to hear just the shiny as I was shown Rabbi this is the way he says it but that's Rabbi said I buy this by Siri we shouldn't be honest the sort of days of the days I'll clean sure is ball priests of the law the king given she missed her bias lift got to show us I the soul higher in this rough by the show with my mission of the so it comes out what was burning the show mission of the ball priests of the law so what's Rabbi said I love you so I could advise after okay Rabbi meaning the Ramban the matter of this matter is high if this walking in came in this Siri the diet this is all amazing this is what it means portion is what it means he means the Ramban and he means this whole either way this is what we call a classic or a classic or a mixed up or a mixed up