THE MILLION DOLLAR QUESTION - WHAT BERACHA IS PIZZA?

Recording in progress. >> Okay, good morning friends. If you saw in screen, he has a lot of copies of because uh he's trying to get rid of them before the new comes in to to storage. So uh this is is going to print imminently. Uh if anybody wants to be please let us know. I want to revisit pizza because I want to clarify a conclusion regarding pizza that we had yesterday. The says in and we pointed out what the says in the said in Namely which is some kind of dough that's baked with bread. I'm sorry, that's baked with meat or fish or cheese. It's [snorts] Question, why is it Um the says even if you're not it's Very interesting. It's Why is it It's straight up By the way, according to the the may be even more than the The said earlier in and therefore don't eat it unless you first make a on [snorts] The says no, you can make you can make straight up on the This which is at first glance It's past that has a filler in it. It's What is One of the definitions was it's full of fruit and spices. That you don't make So why possible and there it's different. There it's different because is only made to wipe your mouth out and as a dessert. It's normally eaten for hunger and to satisfy. It's like any other It's like a salami sandwich. [snorts] Okay. So yesterday we saw therefore the opinion of that let's get this clear. The is saying that the that dough that has a filling is only if it's ultimately a food that's eaten as a snack or a dessert, but if it's eaten as a filler, as a meal food, it's going to be Therefore says quoted in the that pizza where the filling of cheese is not as a snack, but is as a filler, is as a meal kind of food, it's straight up. Doesn't matter if you eat it as one slice or a half a slice. And yesterday we came out that that's something to seriously consider because this is saying meaning we're learning we want to come out what does the you could make a very strong case is saying that whenever the filler is a meal food and that's what the says, cheese, fish, meat, it's straight up So we said yesterday that there you could make a very strong case, not make a very strong case. The Mishna Brurah would seem to hold pizza is always period. That's what we said yesterday. But I want to qualify that. I actually want to change that. We also brought that Rav Scheinberg holds that pizza is period. However, Rav Elyashiv disagrees. And the reason he disagrees is because he says they missed the point. The Mishna Brurah here is talking about it being because of because of its filling. So cheese therefore which is a meal filling would be That's true, Rav Elyashiv says. I agree to that. The thing is the dough of the pizza is not flour and water, it's apple juice and flour. So it's for a different reason. It's not because of its filling, because of the dough is like a cake. Right? Now I was going to come in this morning and say that I I I would side more with Rav Elyashiv regarding this. Again, I'm not um I'm not right to take a side over here. Just we're learning Mishna Brurah. We want to come out, what does the Mishna Brurah hold? I think Rav Elyashiv's point is is extremely compelling. This Mishna Brurah is only referring to the element of as a filling. It's not talking about uh regarding the dough itself. But as I'm saying it, I don't think it's Why? Because I think Rav Zalman would say back that the of the Mishna Brurah applies to all elements of The critical definition of is is it a meal food or is it a snack? Not what you're eating it for, not what you're eating it for. What is this food item? Is it a meal food or is it a snack? Rav Zalman would say, I know the Mishnah Berurah is referring to its element of being having a filling, but it should equally I don't know. I don't know if all pizza that was made with apple juice is not what I don't know. Where's Yehuda? Did you go to um Did you go to which store? Um Go to Pizza Nash. We could wait. You have It's 9:08. You You could be there [clears throat] in By the end of the By the end of the No, it's okay. I'm joking. >> When you're in at the counter, aren't you responsible to ask, did you put apple juice in there? >> Of course. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah. >> The dough is a treat. The dough is a treat. >> It doesn't matter. It's not Doesn't taste like bread. >> Disagree with that. >> It tastes like bread? >> Bread. Okay, pizza. >> Well, you know, that is going to depend on One second. One second. Yeah, we could discuss that. Hang on to that for one for one one moment. I was going to come into this share saying, look, Rav Elyashiv would concede that the Mishnah Berurah would say that if the pizza was flour and water, it would be just Rav Elyashiv saying it's cake. It's It's Um It's And therefore it's I think Rav Zalman would say back that would this Mishnah Berurah applies to all the different categories of namely, you're right, there are three categories of but they're fundamentally based on the idea that the reason why is because it's not typically eaten as a meal food. Rav Zalman is saying pizza is typically eaten as a meal food and I think that is definitely the case. It doesn't matter if you decided to eat it as a snack. You're eating it for breakfast, you're eating it for lunch, you're eating it for dinner. I think would say It doesn't matter if it's The same way if it's We don't say it's because it's not dessert. So too if it's kneaded with apple juice, we won't say it's a dessert. Now let's But there is one other factor. >> No, I would disagree with that. I would say the definition of bread No. No, we see from this not. We see from not [clears throat] because Also bread is something that doesn't have a filling and if it has a filling it's And yet the says but if the filling is meat or cheese then it's because it's not enough to be called it has to be and pizza is not and I but what do you mean it's with apple juice? I would say he would still say it's not says no, this is only addressing the element of it being What about the fact that it's it's it has the is not talking about that. I don't know. I would I was going to come I came into the share this morning. I've been thinking about this for over an hour. I was going to say I I would say no. I think the I think it's very diff- I don't I don't I don't think you could safely eat one slice of pizza without washing. I don't think so. I don't This seems to be saying that the the fundamental the fundamental definition of despite whatever the three categories are, it has to be and it has to be and pizza is not that way. When wrote the it was different. It was it was a snack. It was like you go into a you go get cotton candy, you get popcorn, you get pizza. No, that's not the reality anymore. >> What do you do with the three with the three definitions of now? >> No. No. When when it's a food is eaten and it meets the criteria of which are the three definitions, then it's So >> four definitions There's four There's four conditions. >> No. No. There's There's one definition and then there's three categories. And by the way, I sort of agree because we did see in the that the three categories don't argue on each other. They're just three different kinds of foods that are not eaten as a meal food. They're eaten as a snack. And that we would agree to that. Whether it's cake, whether it's pie, or whether it's pretzels. Nobody eats pretzels as a meal. Nobody eats cake as a meal. Nobody eats pie as a meal. They're not really fundamentally arguing with each other. But they're all fundamentally based on the on the idea that this is not eaten as a meal food. Here. Look back in Um Pass Yes This That But the did say, do you remember where are? What the fundamental difference is is that it's I don't see it here. By the way, regarding the whether the pizza tastes like apple juice or not. That's also legitimate point. Why? Cuz in the criteria of when they're additives, how much additives does it have to have? The says that you need to be able to taste the You could definitely taste the apple juice in pizza. Definitely. I'm not not 100% sure actually. But then the holds it has to have so many additives that that the additives are the I don't know if you would say that by pizza though. You know, does it have a strong apple juice taste? Maybe the frozen pizza. I don't think anybody any pizza maker wants there to be a strong apple juice taste. In that case, then also doesn't stand. You can't say oh so what if it's It's not So I would say for for it's easier to make the and for It only has to be for it has to be the There's no way the apple juice in pizza is the I think it was also. It's apple juice and concentrate. It's mostly water. They don't drop juice very often. I think I don't think they use like pure apple juice. >> Mhm. >> I don't think mostly water anyway. >> Based on Not sure that I don't think that you could just make half a slice or a slice. I don't think so. You If you want to disagree, the quote straight up that the din of a filling only applies to a sweet fruit, not to a meal food like cheese meat. The bottom line is I You know I don't see any difference between and pizza. >> Anything that no apple juice is just water. >> What? >> There's no apple juice in this. >> In what? >> There's no juice in this pizza. >> I don't see you. >> Yeah. >> What's happening? >> a box of pizza. Like there was some pizza. >> Where are you? Where did you go, Judah? >> Pizza's in eight both ways, with water and with apple juice. >> I don't One second. I don't see you. Where did you go? Oh. Show me again. Where? Now I see you. >> This one. >> Tuscanini thin crust. One second. Okay. So Tuscanini, by the way, thin crust might be easier to make cuz it might be like a cracker. But I would say Rabbi Yashi would say, oh, it's a cracker. The holds it doesn't matter what category of it fundamentally it's a meal filling, a meal food and not and not a snack. It's never Which by the way, that's I would say the fallacy of the cuz it doesn't matter how much apple juice is in there. It's a meal food. >> But today >> people aren't too only on there could be a like everybody's always on their own >> No, that no, that's no. Cuz it's not true they're not It's just they're not stationary in one place, but they're still eating it's still breakfast, lunch, or dinner. You know what they're they're not they're eating sunflower seeds? What are they eating? >> They're eating breakfast on a on a train. >> Yeah, so the I mean uh let's say a guy's eating a sandwich the guy pulls out, right? A salami sandwich. It's 4 ft tall, but he's eating it on the train as he's walking. So I'm not Mm. Uh that's that's what I think the would say. I think if was here and we would ask him what is a slice of pizza? He would say That's I don't I mean I don't think this is a big Again, says well there's apple juice. So if there's not apple juice for sure and I don't think that would matter that there's apple juice. I think the >> What about the Well, there's more room more room to say that people could >> No, I don't um I wouldn't say that. >> If a doesn't have left then does that I mean maybe We send a Right, a chicken and a you got to wash the bench. Chicken and you got to wash the bench. One slice of pizza. Look. Rabbi does say if there's apple juice then you can make on one slice. I do think the would disagree. I think the would disagree. We'll hold it here and then we'll finish Pass the Love Kiss in tomorrow, okay? >> Recording stopped.