Transforming Lives Through Alternative Education: "Not at Risk" book launch

[Music] so welcome everybody this is amazing padhu lush empty toki Lila has dough and I want to first thank the share potage community the you know hell in the common community and the show's themselves rabbi they're for hosting this event and a special thanks to car publishers of course menorah books which is a subdivision of Turin human and decided the spots of this event we've begged them oh my gosh you're coming out with this book who would loved to promote this in any way we can my wife and I we started Ibanez and our goal is very much the same as not just the garbageman's but also with the crossroads we've been friends with the garden cottage names for a long time many many many years and we want to show our appreciation through the work that the goddesses have done with all the years with melody at school and also a very deep appreciation for what crossroads has done their special work both in prevention in the intervention with teams at risk and both melody and crossroads are an invaluable part of the landscape of usual I'm it's just an invaluable part you know it's our people bunny and we all have our own issues making alia but especially for the angular community and all the different trials and tribulations that we all go through with our own families and trying to make alia in not just a physical way but in a spiritual way and without any further ado I went handed over to you deed to be the moderator for the evening and I was just so grateful for the panelists they're here can we do that now thank you very posterior I'm the marketing manager at menorah Books which is a division of Corrin publishers and I want to thank you all very much for coming out tonight for this important discussion everyone here who is here for this event is aware how difficult adolescence can be all of us have been there in our own ways and it could be confusing it's a time of transition a time of searching mixed in to that issues such as family conflicts abuse learning disabilities cognitive or social issues trauma those years can be fun but they can also be very painful they could be full of resentment despair distress anger so when our teens drop out of school or when they're asked to leave when they prefer to spend their time on the streets or anywhere but school it leads to even more confusion and distress mainly on the part of the educators and the parents this evening we are honored to host dr. Manhattan goddess Minh and Ravi Sassoon both of whom are experts in helping teenagers regain control of their lives and transform them into positive futures dr. Menachem goddess Minh is the founder of Mellott America Namita 30 an alternative religious high school here in Jerusalem he and his wife Leah are co-authors of not at risk which we are honoring tonight we're honored to have layout with us tonight as well who has played a very significant role in the development of melded dr. Gasman created this alternative religious school after his own son was kicked out of school he drew on his own background in clinical work and academia and established a school for teens who for various reasons fell through the cracks of the traditional school system teens that he insists are actually not at risk when they're provided with an environment of unconditional acceptance and confidence in their own abilities to succeed through its unique approach melody has succeeded in transforming the lives of Heights of students and their families for over 20 years in fact a number of millet parents and alumni are here with us tonight Robbie Sassoon is the executive director of crossroads a crisis intervention and outreach organization for english-speaking pre risk and at-risk teenagers it has a drop-in center with open doors and a dedicated welcoming staff of intervention workers social workers therapists tutors and volunteers who offers teens a place to go free counseling advocacy education options and a Job Center as well as proactively being involved in street outreach melon and crossroads have a lot of similarities but there are also some differences they represent different approaches to a common problem and have held hundreds if not thousands of teens he'll transform their lives and flourish into adulthood so thank you both for being here tonight and sharing your insights with us we will hear from our experts and then open the floor to questions from the audience afterwards so the first question I have is for you nom rabbi Stein thoughts in his approbation to your book not at risk wrote that the success of Mellet was quote not the outcome of administrative success but rather a unique combination of understanding and love this is a very impressive statement but it's not what's usually associated with traditional educational settings so manam what inspired you to create melody and its approach of alternative education I think is give a small introduction the last thing I expected to do the last thing I expected to do when getting off the plane when we made aliyah you know his second 1977 would be to become a principal and a founder of the high school impossible but a curse for who I must say and his plans and our plans sometimes things do work out I established the school basically when my youngest son who was serving in the Army at a family dinner has suggested how about why don't you create the school that would be able to deal with the kids that I dropped out and he was a dropout I took his suggestion seriously because basically he's a serious guy I studied the subject and took to the streets to investigate the issues of personally I then started on my own a two-year pilot project from 1995 to 1997 I created my own program without any intervention without misrata I know I did it on my own and this is what I really would consider see out of the Shivaya I had envisaged a program that would attract this population back in order to enable them to return to their previous frameworks my first concept that I started to work with these kids from the street I would try to build them up and return them back to the schools and the institutions was they were learning in order to enable them to return that previous frameworks what was clear it gave me so much impetus to fight the system was a message that I received from these kids that they did want to learn and they did want to be part of some kind of framework or a school thus in 1997 that was I was approached and requested with the assistance of Professor Danny Sperber and non-toxic aha I was like approached by the Minister of Education the lathe of the Samoan hammer who had requested that I take whatever I'm doing in those two years apparently people began to feel and understand that I was in the right direction in 1997 art starting an actual school and facing even though the Minister of Education had accepted the idea that I worked within the system still there was bureaucracy within Misrata you know primarily within the Agathe 30 of the religious sector of the ministry that there was a denial of the problem no way that there were dottie kids floating around in the city of jerusalem but they were totally wrong so thus the school in the sense began my son gave me the idea I took it seriously I did the research I went out to talk to kids and I must add something else not only did I find that the kids do want to learn because learning is synonymous with life that I also had felt that I was able to reach them and speak to them maybe speak to their hearts so those in 1997 yeah school program that was able to offer these students an opportunity to study in a miss Garrett we still would not officially recognize and we still would attach to the Hartman school and we still were attached to the girls program turned out it wasn't only a program for boys and it wasn't it was also a program for girls and then maybe later on it's also religious as well as non-religious students but it all came together in 1997 for three years we worked very hard with these two institutions until misrata you know finally came to me to the decision that yes we are entitled to receive recognition that has a high school a bonafide qualified high school as any other high school in the state of Israel so Mellott was established in 97 which was 21 years ago and crossroads was established in 2001 which was 17 years ago so Israel has changed a lot in these past two decades and as we all know the entire world has changed considerably especially given technology etc so Robbie maybe you could share with us a little bit from your experience how has the profile of at-risk teens changed in this time hi everyone firstly I just want to thank the opportunity thank Corrine for the opportunity to come and speak and to share the honor is to sit next to dr. goddess mint I read the book I was very enriched and to really have a wonderful impact on on my thought process so thank you Crossroads engages with over a thousand teens in distress each year and we have a number of services we have our outreach on the street we have a drop-in center batiti program the vocational programs we have we have a clothes closet we have all sorts of basic services and sometimes we obviously we see hundreds of kids in therapy and some kids they come and we see them in one of our particular services and from time to time we see that there are kids that use all our services you know so going back about eight and a half years when I started like wrestlerettes we usually call that kid at a crossroads kit all right Center kit and crossroads kids and sensory kids who were teens in distress I'm gonna try not to use the term at risk not only in honor of the title of doctor Gaddis mins book but because I think it's very confusing but those kids we would say those are crossroads kids and what would they look like you know they usually have a honey wife and they have piercings you know tattoo is long long hair you know rude clothing and characteristically they would be angry and be often get into a lot of fights and have issues with violence often issues with addiction a lot of good you know anti-social you know behaviors runaway promiscuity and to a certain extent they were easily identified and when we would go out on the street huzzah that's a crossroads kid that teen is in distress that bad that teen needs our help and they have to say that eight years later one of the most fascinating the level of researcher academic or process processes that I've gone through is to see the changes of the kids that we're engaging whether it be on the street in our drop-in center or in therapy they don't look like that anymore they look pretty normative you know fewer and we also get kids who are Runaways and you know coming in with the green hair and you know we still see it but not to the same extent we're seeing kids that look more normative we're not seeing kids who are yelling at you in the face tell you I'm very angry I want you to pay attention to me we're seeing a different type of we're seeing a different type of teen and distress we're seeing teens who are struggling more inward whether it be depression anxiety different forms of self-harm lots of suicidality you know or attempting so it's really a different type of team that we're seeing the first team that I mentioned that you know the teens that I would see when I started we would call those teens who were acting out and today we're seeing teens that something that we're referring to as kids who are acting in obviously there's still teens who are acting you know and there's always there's always a spectrum of teens but we've seen a real real change in our population to a certain extent that's guided us as to you know how we do our work how we do our outreach you know just a very quick story we see Israeli teens high school kids from the ages of 13 to 22 we also see gap year students well the gap one of this XI vote that we see young adults from this navei and the thing traditionally got a lot of these teens who were acting out and someone from Nevada is applying for a particular specific type of job that I haven't had a crossroads and they said to me you know we've had enough they said they we're struggling or they're seeing fewer kids and I said hold on let me guess you're seeing fewer kids who are dropouts with the long hair or you know in everyone's faces and she says have it you know I said because I went through the same process I said and if I have to guess you're seeing kids who are look more normative and they're struggling more internally and they think that that's and she said that I was absolutely correct I think that the important thing to note is that the suffering is still out there it's just expressing itself in in in different different ways you know and and that's something that you know we speak a lot about you know amongst their staff and you know when we talked about you know teens look different even though it's not as much acting how it doesn't mean that suffering is any less actually the suffering could actually be more intensive than it used to be and it's harder to pick up on so connected to to what you're saying Robby about acting in versus acting out or beforehand acting out and now as you say acting in I like to to ask both of you basically both of your organizations both crossroads and melody provide a warm healing environment that have both helped so many students so many teens move forward in their lives and I'm wondering can you elaborate on what each organization does in order to help the teens heal whether and you're describing a lot of inner pain that students that teens are going through depression anxiety how would you describe menachem how would you describe what melody does in terms of the environment that they provide that to them transform their lives and then Robbie if you could elaborate a bit on what crosswords does well I think basically the conceptual framework now that develops around two cardinal principles to create a non pressuring environment number one and to create a program that is student oriented student-centered rather than curriculum of the school center these are the two major principles that I came that I came to understand as I began to work with the students during the the two-year pilot program now to the best of my understanding there was a level of thanks of hurt that our specific population has experienced and what we try to do it Mellon is create a healing environment which and illogically or metaphorically I would try to describe melody as an intensive cardiac care unit all of the students that come to Mellon someplace in their heart something hurts and it is our responsibility to help find help with the student find the place that it hurts the most try to touch it in some way and then create what we call the self healing process once you touch a place that hurts the heart will feel better the blood will begin to pump and it will reach it will reach the mind so the major emphasis although it's a school and there's a curriculum and there's a program and we have prescribed you know boundaries of what we're able to do but within the framework of the hours that our students attend the school our major objective is to help them begin to help themselves to create an environment in which they will feel very comfortable the cardiac care unit is as I see is contains one student enters the school we put the student on a intravenous drip the intravenous drip contains acceptance trust choice and unconditional love and that intravenous that we give the student will remain with the student all the way through from the time he entered to the time he leaves but we're not specialists we came to heart transplants we can do bypasses sometimes we try sometimes we may be successful but we also know how to refer students to other institutions when all that we are able to offer is not very successful so basically the school is a cell self-healing environment it's an environment in which the kids will feel comfortable not pressured and they will feel that they are the center each student in the school is the center and the entire staff surrounds that centers and what each one offers what they are able to offer in order to make the student feel better if you could elaborate on how crossroads helps these teams deal with the inner pain the anxiety the depression that you were talking about acting in right so I'll start off by saying that there's no magic pill there's no magic formula I took my staff yesterday to sit with a another great a leader in the field rabbi dr. Abraham risky and we started asking him about his his theories and to give us skills and he said I really don't do theory and skills well he said the most important thing is that the person that's sitting across from you understands that you care about them he said not only that they understand it but they feel that it was a humbling experience because here we are you know told my staff you know saved me you know psychiatrist you know seek his you know guidance on the latest and their approaches to engaging if you really brought about back to basics and I so appreciated that because that's if there was a magic pill if there was a if there was you know something where it all starts and this is what dr. goddess was referring to the heart in terms of making sure they understood that we carry I'll note that nothing happens quickly especially where the the pain goes deep no and I'll know it's a process it's a process that starts on the street we're right there with them it starts on the crisis qual we're right there with them it could be in the middle of the night it continues in the very informal environment we're playing ping pong and our model we're playing Super Mario Brothers in in our model we were hanging out in the office and it continues into a more formal environment than the therapy in the therapy room and it's a process and it's a process of the t-there young adult who who are working with understanding that we believe in them understanding that we're with them no matter what understanding them with all over their flaws and with all of the flaws they think they have we're gonna sit by them and we're gonna let them make more mistakes when when we ask clients of alumni to talk about you know you know crossroads and Howard its impact on their life they they don't say one word they talk about how the process well I met crossroads I was 15 years old on the street and then I was with them in their hot zone and then I went through a really tough time and I called them in the middle of the night and then I really needed to work on some tough things through therapy it's a process so a number of books have been written over the past decade or so offering advice to families with teens who are quote unquote off the dara so menachem and robbie based on your respective experience to what degree is religion or perhaps more specifically their parents religion a central factor in the distress of the teens that you help or do their travel stem from other causes maybe from social pressure or whatever social environment they're in first of all the name of the school is America's limit of T and we made a decision after we added the cruellest of the program so it's a co-educational program we also made a decision to accept any student from a religious background or non religious background there's no coercion with within the school except that the school is under the supervision of a capital T and most staff are Tati themselves so there's no religious coercion whatsoever but when students feel devalued whether it's from their homes teachers peers when they repeatedly receive negative feedback from the environment how important to them are the practice and rituals tradition winner America had initially came to the school had no concept of where these kids were emotionally while she was concerned is how long are the sleeves of the girls did the boys you know have sit we have said says how many times during the week then they doubt an etc exception clearly they just didn't know how to commune a communicate with kids the muhfucka heart just didn't understand the feelings of where they we where these kids are students have taught me only when kids can believe in themselves can they believe and when we believe in them they can move on in their lives so it's our ability to restore their belief in themselves and once they believe believe in themselves they certainly have an opportunity to believe in others and then he and then also choose as how they wish to practice or what their beliefs may be so basically you could have a religious school that doesn't cool coerce the students but gives them an opportunity to find their own way and our experience has been that a lot of these kids returned closer to their roots closer to their heritage closer to their families closer to their parents but they do it on their own in their own style and we certainly at the school a totally non-judgmental in the school in the school environment or in general like meaning you want to you know create a respect for religion or respect for me me ha ha ha and yet you're giving them you know the freedom and the independence to act however way they want so happy can you walk us through that how does that how does it work in actuality once a student is able to understand what we're offering them and once the educator is able to connect to the student there's a process of a a relationship a bond a synergy between between the student and school once they feel comfortable with the environment in which they're in once they know that we're not pressuring them once they know that we accept them and once they know that we trust them they will automatically understand that they're in a religious framework and they will use us as examples to develop some kind of a spiritual connection between us as rock-solid a check we'll talk about it a little bit students are looking for not teachers they're looking for people they're looking for contact they're looking to feel who we are they want to know who we are they want to feel that we feel that there's this reciprocal relationship that develops between the student and the school than the teacher-student everybody understand they are looking to identify and use us as some reflection of who they are now once they feel comfortable totally comfortable in this environment they are also able to open themselves up to what kinds of doing some kids will decide to go to school and start learning and start doing the Barbara great some kids will decide maybe to go out work a little bit some kids will decide then just the ball is in their Court once a student feels that the ball is in their court the whole world opens up to them they feel empowered and part of that empowerment is also our desire on our part to help them make those decisions that are most meaningful for them and if it has to do with it with the area of religiosity or beliefs or Emunah we are there available to listen to them to try don't understand where they're coming from and where they would like to go and we're there and we gently guide them so there is no steerer there's no contradiction between a totally non coercive environment which enables kids to make their own decisions based on their own needs at a time as Robbie said when they already Sousa percussion those that have decided to go whatever direction the student takes that's the best direction there's no bad directions there is no judgemental factors in deciding well this kid yes this kid know every kid is yes every kid is great three kid fields and we feeling with them so I don't you know we don't make a big deal about you know religion per se as as as a young because these kids have broken away a family tradition religion etc but they didn't pretty they broke away basically on themselves and now when we reunite them it's easy for them to go back to maybe we have they started or maybe some new directions to answer your initial question was does religion play a central role and the decisions that the teens that we were seeing have made yes it plays a major role does the religion of the parents play a major role yes but that's not why they rebelled that's not why they're in distress people love asking us cuz we work with Anglo kids so they said oh yeah the reason is it because of Aliana know ally a snap the reason ally has a trigger right oh yeah comes with challenges religion comes with challenges religion isn't the reason why the teens turned out when off the dara the religion isn't the reason why teens are in distress I don't think the reason has ever changed you know the reason is teens are searching the reason when it comes to the parents it comes off into unhealthy relationships abusive or neglectful relationships or traumatic experiences I think I agree a hundred percent with what doctor gathers has been said in terms of seeing what happens when you give some space to a teen who is it koala off the dareth left you know left left left religion to feel better and there was a beautiful is a beautiful address about both sharavino when he was a shepherd one of the sheep ran away and he ran after it and he saw that the Sheep went to a stream of weather and he began to drink drink and he said to the Sheep this is it now I understood why you ran away from the flock you were thirsty in response God says to him now I see the way that you are the Shepherd of you no sheep you could be the Shepherd of my people quiz Moshe Robina realized that it wasn't there was something hurting there beyond being part of the flock right it goes beyond religion and we see it so often and by the way across roads it's neither religious you know it melet's a potentially religious institution that doesn't force religion what we're not even the religious institution but we see so many religious kids and what happens so often when they work out whatever they need to work out in in their process they they find their place well it may often what their parents did off in something else but they find they find their place the religion isn't the problem and I have a great story about that but I'm gonna I'm gonna hand this over save the story for later usually the concept off the dara means that a kid is going off to dara but it has some kind of religious connotation my our understanding is that the only way we could deal with kids if there is such a concept often Tara just widened in there the road has to be wide enough to each kid to be on some kind of path let's not narrow it maybe religion for some of these kids narrow the path and this is why they find difficulties dealing with the path give them as Robbie said give them enough space and they'll find their way that's really beautiful beautiful I this connects with with a question that I've been asking since the manuscript of the book first came across my desk and that is Manoa why did you title your book not at risk one it's very difficult to meet the label kids at risk okay and two are we not all at risk the whole question of risk is say is is a label and I have most of my life avoiding labeling kids at risk and it's funny even my presentation to the book to the publisher he said menachem please try to describe the kids in your school and I keep on talking talking talking talking and I never gave him an answer so he said also it appears these kids are not at risk you can call them at risk if they're really not at risk so there's a really there's a philosophy behind calling the book not at risk because it's the way we look at the way we perceive these kids it's the kids we're looking at we're not looking at the problem the problem is the problem but the kid is always the kid so it really is it's a good question then there's deep philosophical meaning and why we don't label kids and how we review kids and how how we approach kids if we start from the point of view of the problem will always get caught up in the it's problem but we only focus on the kid we'll get up court was a kid and that's what the kid wants us to get caught up with with him not his problem and as as I always said most most of the time when I interview kids for the first time 90% of the kids we talk about the future we talk about the school we talk about my philosophy etc and most of the kids say wait you're not talking about my background my problems exist I'm not interested in them I'm only interested in the future how I think you will be able to be 10 years from now that sense takes away at least additionally a feeling that we care about them so I'd like to ask one more question to both of you and then I'll invite the audience to ask you their own questions so you've both seen a lot and you've experienced a lot and you've had the trust and confidence of tease their parents their families so for a parent who has a child who is either quote/unquote pre risk at risk not at risk as Binaca prefers to say it's a deeply unnerving and terrifying and confusing experience so what practical advice would you offer parents as they are trying to help their teenagers often reeling themselves from their own difficulties that their children are experiencing what message do you have to offer what advice do you have to offer what I'd like to say is give give if it's a parent give you a child unlimited support and a listening ear the message they all have the capacity to be great let them know that too many of these so-called problems are in the eyes of the beholder it takes creativity and self trust to look at the adolescent with different lenses free yourself from distorted images so what basically I'm trying to say is that we have to begin to look at our kids differently and once we begin to look at them differently they will begin to feel that we support them we're able to listen to them we could go a very long way in helping them reach their goals and their objectives and objectives in life but it basically takes a true change in perception of how we look at our young people and also showing them that we know that they will be sick sale successful in life and great I'm always very cautious before I say anything about parenting maybe because I'm not sure what it says about my parenting or what it says about anyone elses ability to see throw generally I don't teach parenting I'll share two or three ideas based on how we engage at crossroads at crossroads we engage with boundaries and we engage with love that we see so many and then in the combination have a good dose of boundaries and a good dose of love you know we've seen that be a real stabilizing factor real important factor in the development of the teens that we engage with sometimes kids come from homes where there's only boundaries and no love it usually doesn't work out you know relevant to you know dr. goddess means answering sometimes people come from a home of love but no boundaries then often there's many challenges there sometimes there's no love and no load no boundaries that's called neglect and that's pretty bad so we really focus on we have our boundaries we have rules we keep to our rules we have our protocol we keep to our protocol but we do our best to make sure that the love is the love is Felton I'm thinking of a client that told her social worker that she was being abused physically abused at home she was a minor and I told the client that I need to report this information to the river fan and she threatened me never to come back again she went on to call me names that I can't say in this role for a while like you know a good few minutes soliloquy really tearing me apart but our boundaries and our rules that we keep to demanded that me report this information two weeks later the girl comes back to crossroads and why is that the gold Guth comes back to crossroads because she knew that we cared about her you know sometimes boundaries hurt but if it's with love you know I think a combination of boundaries in love are crucial the other thing that I believe in and I've taught how was that teenagers sugar Belle I have this session that and I say why every team needs to repel people come in whether you talk into that so I make a distinction between healthy rebellion and unhealthy rebellion but for teens to be able to explore to be able to try be different they're supposed to be different yeah to figure out who they are and who are they going to and who are they going to contrast themselves from often it's from us their their their parents so that they're supposed to repel obviously there's a line you know once a question of the safety when it's a question of their safety that you know as parents we need to step in so we step in but I think the concept of teens should explore teens should repel I think that that's a crucial you know that's a crucial point the last point that I will add is when parents are talking to me about a conflict that they're having and what to do about it you know I said yeah I usually ask are you talking to your child say we talk every night for an hour I said you're in very good shape you don't have to worry because I think the lines of communication need to stay it's they open and really at all costs you know and the lines of communication are so so crucial when you're dealing with a child who is pushing you know your buttons and who is exploring and who is you know what pushing the boundaries so I think you know constant communication and openness you know it is important what I would like to do is just give a brief synopsis of the number of points dealing with the connection between parents and children I think it's important for parents to accept both child's strengths and his and the present challenges to believe in the child's future to trust in his or her innate integrity allow choices provide unconditional love and at the same times parents should also be searching for the means to unlock barriers the child wants to overcome by focusing first and foremost of what's bothering the child parents committed to a child's genuine search for meaning can greatly benefit from engaged hearts and freed spirits their own thank you thank you both so much so we're now I'm going to take a few minutes and take some questions from audience members yes he's in the high school that the sleepaway high school but he's it's very hard to get him to when he's there to stay overnight and it's very hard to get him to go to school he skips a lot so I was wondering in other words I'm not looking to transfer to your school I'm looking to try to encourage him to go to the school that he's in and then as a back-up plan we'll see you know that's the that's that's the kid sir so to speak and I'd like to know because the channels of communication are open in general but he's just he shuts himself up and and he stays away from school he's a temporary I think first of all it's an issue of the school and your son's feeling about if he's if he's in the right place or not if you see if he's not convinced that he's in the right place he certainly will run away he certainly doesn't want to remain in the place that he doesn't feel comfortable with so I think one it's incumbent upon the school to try to work out and be as flexible as possible they are okay and I think parents have to be was a very supportive of the struggle that he's going through and giving him parents giving him your son a feeling that you support him and you trust them and you accept him accept it a lot of the kids that have come to melon the kids that just aren't able we needed all turn an alternative the system of education if cannot receive what he is within a more standard type school setting and maybe pellet can be an option because we have the flexibility and the ability to deal and cope with such situations in which he then will be able to one accomplish he you know continuing studies but still be in an environment which he feels he has control over himself we said there's no magic formulas the school will get a little more if the parents will be more supportive that's one one approach there's a need for something else I'll talk more in general terms and obviously you know when you answer a question like this easier said than easier said than done but I'll share the thoughts that two thoughts that two thoughts that came to me one is relating to something that dr. God has been said about them feeling in control you know actually one of the similarities between the melanin crossroads is that you don't have to be in either of those institutions if you're coming to Maryland for your educational process and everything else that melet's offers if you coming to crossroads for a social therapeutic experience you're coming because you you you want to and you're in the driver's seat and you've got you were given the message that you're in the driver's seat you're the one who is in control you're the one who is making these decisions so to the extent possible that a kid is having a difficult time at the school or going to school to the extent possible that we allow them to be part of the process if school's not working out having them be part of the process of you know what their alternative is you know and have them feel some of that sense of you know responsibility and that they're we're not doing school isn't something that we're doing to you school is something that we could potentially think about together what would be the ideal place you know for for me to go and have open up that as a conversation and to the extent possible have them be in the driver's seat sometimes it's well the second point that I was just going to quickly make is sometimes it's not an educational issue sometimes it's a therapeutic issue you know again not going into the specific specific case but the wonderful thing about the school like belt is that they have all sorts of services no place like crossroads you know our therapeutic support and a weight of a we have a system where if a kid is homeless on the street we can't do we can't do we can't do therapy with them you know if their home you know if their home we have to find you know a home they have to begin you know there's a there's different levels of processes that that we go through sometimes before a kid is able to jump into their educational process they have to jump into some form of emotional or therapeutic process sometimes sometimes that could happen at the parallel you know in the parallel way in certain schools those are my thoughts just what we'd like to add melodye we've sort of conceptualized that each of the students need at least three different types of frameworks one there's a need for freedom to choose in this case I think learning should be my choice the child should never feel that his under any subject subjected to learning if the child is not really interested in learning now ultimately you could created an environment which he has choice he then will ultimately make the right choices freedom to change the student has to feel that and those that work around him as well as a student have to feel that they're able to change that something will happen that both both the individual and the system will meet at some point and then there's the freedom to believe to believe in themselves so you really in a sense or what Mellon has created is a school setting but it's within a therapeutic environment the cardinal principles are based on something educational the model developed by Summerhill the therapeutic environment is is basically based on the work that Milton Erickson had done in brief therapy and an electric communication there's a whole world of how to communicate with and they are basic cardinal principles when you work with a client understand processes processes of change you also have to understand protecting integrity of the student and also basically accepting the feeling of acceptance and then there's also this spiritual connection student has to feel that he's spiritually connected to so what we have done is created a model that is very appropriate to the students who come come to Mellon but there certainly are certain applications and implications that might be appropriate for for them for the general system also because what's good in Mellon also might be good for parts of it in every school but the point over here is that we have to understand and accept the student as he is and use that as a basis or a framework in order to be able to so so the problem you deal with you basically have to accept your son as he is with the problem and then take it from there and then see where it could go and what is needed in order to to try to resolve you know the basic issue of that he it really doesn't want to possibly be in the school that he is today [Music] I think anything no man the only way that I could talk about most families that come have a certain perception of their students oh they have faced many many challenges they don't know what to do okay and in some cases they may have even given up other kids they hear what I have to say when I do the interview of the family and again my perception when you talking personally is that when I'm able to change the kid since sometimes an hour and a half two hours listening to me talk to him the parents are hearing that too and most parents as most kids leave that first initial intake meeting the slight tinge of change I've observed this and parents implement and students talk about this too something happens at that initial meeting the best remedy to deal with problems of kids between kids and parents is as the process of Achille begins to change the student begins to change in school the parent also begins to change and this I think is it's a critical issue the home cannot change until the kid changes because they have they don't that they've given up hope but once they begin to feel that something is that their kid is coming to school maybe even if it takes a year Melody's the only school in the world that would let a kid take a year off if we will wait and we will be very patient and let me tell you the second year that kids started to come to school and the third year already you study it's a process as long as parents parents need that hope as well as the kid and when you could give parents hope that things will change and they begin to see it they then will change and there will be more of a you know connection and believe me this really happens the kids are the ones that can produce the change in their parents it's not their parents again kids it said it's very again but I think I really believe in it and the kid it gets a great is it really great the crossroads particular approach is to take 18 to take a young adults and let them know that they're our client they're in the center unfortunately not always but unfortunately sometimes the problem is very much the home and that's really impacted them in such negative ways and for them to realize that they're in the center I'm not going to say when but we have a you know 20 year old young woman who wanted to work with us and she reached out to us and then before she even got to us her father's on the phone with me saying okay this is what you need to do for my daughter we found out afterwards that there was a very very unhealthy relationship that had legal implications as well between you know the father the father and the daughter and within weeks of focusing and giving her a space she's never had the space or a whole life but giving her the space and saying you're in the center you're our client we sought such wonderful such wonderful change totally a different person and when the parent calls in that situation where there's really an unhealthy situation going on I basically say I'm happy to tell you about crossroads but you're not the client here now that that's in an unhealthy situation you know when there are healthier when it's a healthier situation in the home and the team you know once the ability to engage with you know their parents they use us often as a vehicle to say hold on I I need to be able to engage say something to my family we do family meetings in general we don't do the Systems Theory and in general we're focused on one the team and and the client you know and we've seen that have have the most impact it doesn't directly answer your question but I share a little bit about what we've done just want to say cite a very small case we had many years ago a hurriediy girl coming to her school and the father refused to come the father refused to come and the mother came and we spoke and the father would really cut ties with with his daughter two weeks later the father shows up I want to meet the person who got my daughter to come every day to school the only way the only way we could reunite if when the student leads the way then parent parents then follow suit and this has been our experience I think continue to see it because kind of the kinds of things that parents write the kinds of things that that students write shows that when things change it affects the whole the whole relationship not only parents but we're talking about peers in society and going on to the army everything changes but to change has to begin with the student and then life could continue once once process begins yo Robbie talks about process and in so many cases and I must cite one more case which I mentioned last week yeah one more what I took a student at Mellon right after Pesa or a right before pass our 12th grade that means yet three more months to finish school and she wasn't in the school at all but she came to melody she wanted to study and she wanted to graduate Erik mess up she was thrown out of her home she was on the street she asked if she could study millet and the maghreb we also tried to help her you know we gave her a place to be in a home until we could find something else but that's not the issue the issue is we took this young lady we said in order to graduate you have to do one course take select any subject you'd like to study and prepare for it do well in the bug route the teachers reported to me that was too difficult so we dropped that second proposal was I will take this young lady personally as a student we will do a project if she's successful in the project she'll be able to graduate no way she wasn't capable of doing that but I let her graduate the day of graduation her mother came to the school this is the first time she saw a mother they both embraced but then hits on each one on the shoulder and they cried and I cried too so [Music] parents [Music] and really excited what I've found that had been the comfort for adolescents and young adults for close to thirty years and I find that without working together with the parents and the family I couldn't make penguin like within the second or third meeting on account of the kids have to bring their parents on board and what I am that always said that actually approached me about this we have before and some other have the drop-in center is if there would be the possibility in addition to working with the kids once a month whether clean better than actually working with kids who know the best what the issues are because the kids are getting better at the center and then they go home and it starts all over again because there's not a change in the household in like menachem said that initial meeting it started burning changing the parents need more than that if there be a possibility that once a month it could be a meeting between the concerts at Crossroads and parents who were interested to really understand having them build that relationship at home how do I support their kids communicate with their kids so that your job would be easier these kids will get better at quicker and the parents will feel like pink pad you know they first of all they love me [Music] the kids okay thank you nice to see I'll respond by saying that I I don't think that I'll tell you what they am thinking about in terms of parents you know we've thought about it in the past and we're still thinking about it in terms of having a space at crossroads where where parents can meet even have a staff member facilitate a meeting for parents where whether it's a support group or an educational group where we offer an insight into what kids are going what kids are going through yeah a challenge of what you're bringing of what you're bringing up it's a little bit of a double-edged sword for us an essential you know challenge for quest roads is so many of the teams that were working with as I said you know the relationship with the parents is often very unhealthy and bringing their parents into crossroads what at the place that they chose as a safe space for them becomes less safe but let's say for them you know we've we've gotten this feedback a lot of the time when we want to engage with with with kids parents like no you can't you can't bring them here this is this is my place and one a case-by-case basis like I said before we're totally open to bringing parents and you know facilitating a conversation offering support to parents with with the kids on board but the end of the dates the kid is the client and we're following we're following their lead you know if they're totally against the conversation if we you know we think of conversation could be helpful so we we we encourage you know that direction but the kid is gonna make the final call what I think crossroads can do and what may be a nice service to the community of adults and parents would be able to create some form of support group for parents to be able to meet not connected to the kids that we're seeing meaning it's not that I'm seeing you know yong-chol and you'll see and then we're meeting with the eyeball Yossi's parents but we're meeting with two kids and you know we're opening it up for any parent that wants to come and they're not necessarily gonna meet with that with their kids therapists you know it's a chance so that's an idea that we have that we've been toying with you knowing that we potentially can move forward with okay to also something additional tracing the present principle of Mellon my initial meeting with him was curiosity about a support group Parent Support Group that he was running and I actually attended one of the sessions because there were rumors the parents would wait a very long time on the Thursday evening till late in the night to talk to him that was very curious and I attended with him the last session we both ran it there was always room for parent support groups and know it in particular or you know I can't talk about other you a institutions think that I would like to say most about how we deal with parents I usually tell tell the teachers that when they have these parent student meetings parent-teacher meetings if possible if there's nothing good to say find something good to say that's the one and and always begin with something positive always speaking about something possible remember my philosophy says I've never seen a bad kid sometimes kids may not do good things but there's never a bad kid thank you both very very much I think we're gonna wrap it up for the night because it's getting sort of late if anyone has further questions I would encourage you to contact either of the speaker as I'm sure they'd be willing to answer questions and I would just like to give a special thanks to Rabbi Ian pair at Sierra - for hosting us here at O on the Hama and a huge huge thank you to Rabbi aaronanddeana Poston from Ibanez who helped coordinate this evening and my colleague oshiro sefa who's the editor in chief of menorah books who worked so hard at editing not at risk and unfortunately couldn't be here with us tonight I really have so much gratitude towards her and thank you to everybody for coming out to this to this wonderful discussion I really encourage you all to support both of these organizations and please buy the book it's on sale tonight for 60 shekels you're not gonna find it for a better price anywhere else in his row and we hope to see you at future events either with Corin menorah or with you thank you [Music]