Zevachim 60

Today's is and we are six lines from the top of we're in the middle of aud sanctified the floor of the And the reason he did it says the reason he did it simply was because the which was too small to facilitate the multitude of carbonas that were brought on that day. The Gmorrah says that on that day brought 22,000 bakar 120,000 son 142,000 animals and there simply wasn't enough space on the misbak to bring these carbonas as a result had to make an immediate expansion. This is the first day they're already making an extension and goes and he was at least that's the way understood the Yehuda said and based on that said he said that that of the was something that would remain and it's for that reason for future generations theor as we'll see with regards to certain was treated as the stating argued and said the Pik is not meant to be taken literally and he said I'll prove to It's not meant to be taken literally cuz although 142,000 carbon sounds like a lot and how would they be able to be mocked or all those carbonas on one day you otherwise on the but says when the Mishkan was in brought a thousand in one day and that was the ofenu which was a very very small msbak and he did the back of the envelope arithmetic again he said based on that the msbayak of which was much bigger. In fact, it was 400 times bigger should have been big enough for him to go ahead and build a and bring all these 142 carbonas. What then does the Pik mean when the Pik says that they were mad the floor because the MSB was too? So, it means something else. What it means is that they brought a new misb and they disqualified the other misb. They rendered it unfit but the didn't want to say that they made it unfit. So we use a more fine lion and we say that they made became even utter such words. So we say it was too small but really what it means is it was possible. So it's not that the newb was too small. It's actually referring to the ofenu that was rendered too small. But what does the mean when it says that kesh what exactly was he? That's thear's question that says that was because he needed more space to be able to bring all the carbon. I understand what kdesh means my kesh but according to that says that never brought carbon on the floor. So what was he mad? The gummor says what it means is he was mad not to bring carbonas to give it kadusha that you should be able to build on it theor has to have its own level of kadusha you're right it's not the same level of kadusha as mbah needs kadusha to be able to do to be able to do ritzbah just needs kadusha for it to be to be able to build the on top of it that's all it means says the bishi who says says that which was too small even though it really wasn't small it's just a fine meaning here too forward we weren't going to use anymore rather we were going to use the new I understand what it means when the says was too small was made out of if we have enough time to get to it wasn't made out of it was made out of sob is the one that's too small elder who am what do you mean was too small we're not talking about the we're talking about it's too small there's not enough space to bring all these different 122,000 42,000 carbonas and as a result that is too small so we have to make but it's not the was the say You're right. It really means that was too small. The reason we're referring to even though it wasn't made out of is because it came to replace it was in lie of that was being that it was replacing. That's why he referred to it as in said that how is going to answer understood the literally said was too small to bring 142,000 what do you mean on one square you could was able to bring a th000 so now he couldn't bring 142,000 on 20 by 20 which is 400 square alas it lur you would think just based on the ratio that it would have capacity of 400,000 animals 142,000 shouldn't be such a big deal because said Rabudah holds that the misbeh was really a lot bigger than thought it was meaning if you read the Pik says it was 5 by five but really holds the measurements that the Tyra gives is counting from the m point of the misbeh it's really not 5x5 but rather it's 10 by 10 if it's 10 by 10 it comes out had much more square footage than we thought it did. How much did it have? 6x6 which is 36. It comes out that which is 20 x 20 is only 11 times bigger. 36 * 11 is 396. It's only 11 times bigger. If it's 11 times bigger, it should have only had capacity for 11 times. Yet you see they brought 142 142 times. El that's how but how did know that the way you're supposed to count the is from the midpoint it says 5 by5 so he learned it from it says and it says just like there we count from the midpoint so to this is also meant to be counted from the midpoint and said what does used to do with he doesn't hold he does he uses it to learn of the from the just like the it was two times times the length and width. So, so too the its height had to be two times as well. Meaning and both holder the question is do you learn from or do you learn from the it's that the says need a little background for this. So on the one hand you can argue that it makes more sense to learn to learn the from the albeit one was the other one was the ofas and the other mandama says it's more to learn rather than to learn either They didn't even know that again who was the told us the rest of the story on the first day that the Bd was built but that even though the has a but it's only with regards to but you want to know if you could do a as it relates to that now interesting idea that it has a misbeh But it doesn't have a how do I know the time to said he had this earlier in the well-known says that after all the carbon were brought. So the would take a he would take one cup he would fill it up with blood all the the blood from all the carbonas that were brought and he would go to them as and he would do one. The reason he did it was because in the event that blood spilled somewhere along the way. So there's going to be a little bit of D from this and he's going to go ahead now and do his had a riot to this. He said because they used to plug the the hole the the drain that would lead the blood out of the they would why did they plug it? Probably to save the blood. What did the Raon say? We still got a lot of ra about that. But either way, that's the one that holds that comes out. So what's Yeuda worried about? And maybe after the cabal before this the cayen accidentally reason they're going so fast that by mistake he spilled a little bit of dam. If he spilled the dam where did the dam land on the floor the floors in his bay. So if the anyway's got this must be that it doesn't have a but maybe holds that has to be mean you have to have d to do a if d were just full that's not called a that's what we know in that's not a say how can you tell me I'll prove to you because if not when the dam spills it's always no it has to be It has to be a you need otherwise it's a but the says it's still not because in because if that's the case that really holds that the has even with regards to I still have an idea why did they have to be and go to the and do the why couldn't they just be and do on the floor keep it simple just just pour in its place must be that even who holds but he's but the says you can always ask why not do on the floor the terret is oh the it's that you have no from there was even though the says that even though the one that holds that was And the Pik says clearly the way understands the PK that he gave the so much so that they brought on the floor. It's only the of the carbon but as it relates to over there is going to hold that there is no we spoke at earlier in the when we learn of between and we know that but we passing like that stating that it's only as it relates to the but as it relates to the with regards to that. So for example, if somebody would bring a card and instead of doing this on the he would do it or if somebody would bring an oil and he would do it or someone would take one of the and he would bring it on the so is it's a good it gets it gets re it doesn't have to bring another carbon state some of the fringe benefits that come along with bringing a carbon wouldn't apply. So for example, ordinarily there's a mitzvah but it's not matter. So that's why there's no it's not what would be a carbon. We know that a carbon pes theor of the carbon pes was the boss of the carbon pes wasn't the which is what the of a carbon ordinarily is when it came to a carbon was the says you have to eat of a carbon you have to go through the what would be a carbon being that by the buser is you can't have a carbon pes that has no buser because a carbon that has no bosser You don't have the is the mitzvah and just like the says by a carbon you don't do the whole carbon is disqualified or if a person is a someone that can't eat you can't eat a piece of meat he couldn't bring the carbon because the was so by a carbon if it's going to be a good because being that it doesn't have the ability to be m so so you're going to end up with carbon that doesn't have carbon without is not a is not a carbon and for that reason says that even though there's one exception to the rule carbon by carbon is going to be we spoke out there's another exception to the rule and that is brisk over from the brisk heel also that's why you have the but the point is is that by carpet said it has to be back of the envelope arithmetic that is going to be argued with said I disagree I hold that even by I he's asking very good he's asking that if the is not going to be how could you have a carbon says you have to say that the bos is going to be mut and you're right it's going to come at a tremendous that even though ordinarily is can it can't be mounted but when it comes to a carbon meaning they both agree that you can't have a carbon that doesn't have a that's there's no such thing the question is so what are you then at all that's what took it the opposite extreme he said must be that by even going to have the ability to be I have a I have a rayura and that is coming out. He had to wait 35 block to speak out this kazish because it's really onove this but I have a bur it has to be why because the said that holds that and has a discussion was the only with regards to with regards to as well as it relates to it's not considered I'll prove it I have a what's Because the one that holds that and they used to walk to them as and they would do this over there. Why do they have TO WALK TO THEM? JUST DO THIS ON THE FLOOR. I THOUGHT the has says no cuz it's not it still makes sense to go to because that's I ask you audit. Does it? Of course not. Of course. It would work. What's the kash on the floor? We're talking about a carbon says that even they bring from Yeshua and says over this but he says over and he asks from this but what do you have to say you have to say that held that on that that the would have kadush that the would have kadush in it would be wouldn't have a dinner. It's a new that the has and we look at that as if it happened meaning the was regarding a carbon. Do we say that being that it can't be ma it's not at all or do we say just the opposite that being that you can't have a pes without bas over here is going to be masa but as you find very often in that you start with one but then there's a derivative the derivative over here is going to be whether on the side of the that had kadush would it have a bi or would it have a dinner of So we had a rather challenging this morning where discussed the and that is that if one was to do of a carbon at a time that there was wasn't 100% complete the would be possible. Not just that if you would do and then it was the before the you wouldn't be able to do the that only is if the is but if the is from a it's going to be possible. On that note, the gar brings a related at the time that you can't eat the so like besides for the carbon had a that was the case of the being that it was only that part of the carbon that was only able to eat if the was how do we know that because it says says that Adam should eat the mat of the carbon. Did they really eat it? Meaning they could eat it anywhere in the eaten anywhere in the not only. So what does the mean when it says eat it next to the manu means you can only eat it while the isol but not at that point you wouldn't be able to eat the says that couldn't be what other says that is called so we learn from those two words to that is going to have the same exact that is you can't eat. What about said as well and how do I know that I know it from said over three and he said over the three in the name of zakashi says It was one this is also the one that's relevant to us. I would think that a person can go up today bring his to and eat it. Now we know there were two things you could do with either you could eat it but if you would eat it you'd have to eat it in you have to eat it only in or you could redeem it. You could transfer the kusha from the musheni onto money. If you were going to transfer it, if you were going to be paid, you had to do a tapa outside of. So the question is a person has could he eat it in or can he not eat it in? Now Rashi speaks out very very critically right at the beginning of the that it's clear must be of the opinion means in the times of the lived after we mean today literally so there's no there's no still as a result of because we're not having this conversation then there's So we're presupposing that the question is could I eat the or could I not eat the that's I would have thought yeah I mean to the extent so you can go up there you can eat it as well says the but at the same time you can argue had to be brought up to and eaten also had to be eaten life just like could only be eaten. So too maybe mice is also only now is only soar is really going to discuss it. But at first glance the simple answer is cuz Bakar is a carbon and if there's no mikdash then obviously you can't eat bkar but the point is is the knows can only be eaten in so it reasons then that micer would be the same thing but the says how could you learn from it's true that you can't eat maybe that's simply because in order to eat from aar you'd have to bring a carbon You can't bring a carbon. So if you can't bring a carbon, you can't eat it. But which isn't a carbon. It doesn't require it doesn't require maybe that you could eat I'll prove it to you from also had to be eaten and also you can't eat bis so just like you can't eat so you can't eat but say came to the reason there's no because one of the was he had to take the and place it in front of the so there's no so naturally there's no how do you know that because there's no and there's is that that means there's no man is inherently related to the as is opposed to. So as long as maybe you can take the up and this is a very long says we need that we need that. So it says messer in the it says in the yellow. So we're not learning from Bkar with a mamino because if you're learning it from a mamino you could ask a kasha how can you learn from bkar needs biffay as opposed to micer doesn't necessarily need biffay but learning it from a heish once you're learning it from a heckish a so the bottom line is what does the say the says that you cannot eat so if you have the the laws of apply but you can't eat it as a result you'd have to be there's no other option but you cannot eat it it's not something that you have the option to how do I know that because I know you can't eat and once I know so you can ask me 900 questions from the connection between this once you have a you know that being that you can't eat today So too you can't eat miser today says the gumar why do we have to walk away from the mham why can't we learn it with says you can't just learn from why not because requires and it's for that reason you don't have maybe is going to be different but the garra says you could say doesn't have you're going to tell me it has a mitzvah I'll tell you doesn't have a why do we have to fall off the and jump to a let's stick with the and learn it with meaning they both have to have a need so you should be able to do so you should be able to do has to have a he should be able to in the midst of The bottom line is they both have it. That's why you can't learn it from it. You can't even learn it from what you could learn it from is what is the now you're going to tell me what do you mean? We said right in the beginning of the gum that at the time of the Ra has to hold that because otherwise it'd be no. So there's a very very important rash. This is important as you see there's a pretty long tus. It starts on the top of the base and it goes pretty much to the bottom of it takes up a a hold. So a monster tyus over here with tyus go discusses this rashi but rashi had a different gistar the way rashi was gigar a we know like rash at the beginning of the time of the that's why we're talking about otherwise we're not having this conversation but the is what is thereto today or is there no kushto meaning maybe you can distinguish between as it relates to and and as it relates to bringing carbon and that's what the wants to know does the price hold meaning with regards to then why does say there's no why can't you bring you can bring so why we say there's no shame of because there's noarb is why are you assuming there's no iss I mean the only assumption I guess would be because how you going to bring it but if you just like so then you have the he could bring carbonus even without you don't need physically based on so you could bring then you should be able to bring today as well by the time of the probably holds that even and it's for that reason we assume that there's no man but the says could have discussed a a scenario in where it wouldn't have been so clear what would the scenario have been so again you need ration for this the scenario would have been in a case where you already did the the and the maybe even the you did everything before the bd was then the mikt became now you're sitting with the baser and the question is could you eat the baser or can you not eat the baser it'd be the same shi doesn't eat bt the question is man is if you eat it in is it considered that you ate it in a madesh is it considered that you ate item or is it not considered that you ate it you the same exact when you don't need the anymore but there's still a mitzvah you still have to eat it you still have so you would look at it the same way you look at so why are we only clearing the shilah by micer why we not clearing the shil by and the question is more than that it sounds like by we know for sure even in that case when you don't physically need them as right now because maybe you already brought the carvanas even over there the is going to be that that there's no bakar the question is what about mice Could I learn from the Bakar? Meaning I know I could learn from the Bakar. The question is could I learn from Bakar? Can I not learn from Bakar? So the says really the time of the holds and that's why you can't bring because even though if that's the what are we talking about we're talking about that already had this before and now something and there was still boss And the question is could you eat the baser or not? And the town of the B knew for sure that you can't eat the how did he know it because he was the of the to the just like you can only do if there's a you can only eat the if there's a in other words really is like and that's why the T of the B is assuming that even though there's ofeni But you can't bring because you don't say because stating that he the also held the also held that even if you would have brought the before the and now you'd be left with the baser you wouldn't be able to eat the baser right now. And how did he know that? He knew that because he's mish toer of the bkar to the dham of the and the only time you could eat the bkar is the same time you do this of the once you're misher now I could be maker and say just like is you could only eat so you could only eat it but the asks the obvious question so essentially you're learning from Isn't that says not says that's all good if you hold that as long as the l is that's good. So what's the lid? What's the end user over here? Who's the the last man standing? It's messer. Oh, is so therefore I could learn from akish from a heish because itself messer itself is is the is the original is the second is that's all the says we're using the wordish loosely meaning even though the gumar says that we're learning from we don't really mean heish not really a heishkish usually means means we're being makish a to b. That's not really what's happening over here. What's happening over here is is we're saying that just like you can't do the of when there's no mach we're just broadening that and we're saying not not the all the of the are not applicable at the time that there's no but it's not a heish in the generic sense and as a result you don't fall into the problem of so the truth is this gamarra that we just wasn't an easy gamar I didn't want to say it before the gamar but it's a it's a very very challenging gamar we went we learned the gamar you know really as slowly as we possibly can with the amount of time that we have tyus clearly argues but there's one very very big that we're not going to talk about now but you just have to notice it there's one big that the way Rashi's learning the comes out that you can bifurcate the with regards to and meaning the way Rash is warning the time of the which means clearly but stating that the still has a is that only true with regards to the or is that also true with regards to what do you mean I thought it's one and the same either does have or doesn't have to so you see for me that it's not and the two things are not told is that you could hold that has kadusha with regards to but it's not going to have kadusha with regards to the reason This is important is because the is the antithesis of the way he learned the past. So there's no chumis there's no mistress there's no you don't have any of these incidentally the happens to also be that there was no maybe we'll speak about that in the next few days but that happens to be that happens to be but as it relates to just the opposite there so it's the same it's the same that you between as it relates to the bringing carbon. But according to Rashi the way he learned it was in this with regards to the is what the ra the way he learns and you have to know where the ra gets his from the famous the made up of all the differentis and shas regarding the raid who very often spoke very sharply he says the ra literally made up a But either way, that's Ray that we're going to get to. But for now, what what why are we discussing the it's because had discussed about as relates to that of a carbon pos that impacts the mitzvah of as well. He said it with regards to when was said it's true even for how do I know that I know I know from this what did you see in this cannot be eaten as man and the spoke out very very clearly in the rather complicated that even if you would have done the the and the and everything at the time that there was a B mikdash and then the BA mikt was so what would happen what would happen is it would still be it would you wouldn't be able to eat it is you see you can't eat which is if there's no it's from there took out this that not only if there's no at all but even if the is merely this precedence for the concept of as we've seen so even if it's only It affects all carbon even something like in other words even says so was one of the that famously went to learn spoke at that all the used to go learn init that tells a story with who was at the port of and says what's doing ra lived in b says vista is you know there was a mid people used to go to learn but ra is from the more notable ones right So Robin goes from so usually you have things that Robin brought back from this is just the opposite. So Robin goes from Babel to Israel and he meets Rabieria and he tells Rabier something over from Abaya. So if you know a little bit about used to speak down on the soia you heard what said that held that as it relates to applies even to so he said because they live in a in a dark land how could that doesn't know the following bryson which is at the time that were in the midbar and there was a mishk and the mishk used to travel. So at the time that the Mishka was traveling meaning it wasn't erect it was it was in the state of traveling so is you couldn't eat kachum at that time and rashi says it means even if there was a and you didn't get a r to eat your kch yet once the started traveling you can't eat kachchum anymore the price continues and says that's a very big that the noise of Makn that existed when the were in the midbar those MA is applied even at the time that the Mishka was traveling you would have thought that if there's no there's no MAN is all relevant to the Mishkan no that even if there's no Mishkun still the Makn is applied but what we need is the first part that you were able to eat now what does mean it's very unclear but rammeia said I I'll tell you what means means whether the mishkun was erect or whether the mishka was traveling now if that's the case you have a theor you have a ber that says you couldn't eat kachum at the time that the mishka was traveling and then you have a bryer that says and what did the while it was traveling and while it was erect how do you reconcile the ste my laugh so said the only answer is so Even though it's far from so but said I don't understand how could entertain a possibility wanted to say that impacts even I have a price that says when the is standing and s when it's traveling must be that even though there is a that's not says Maybe both are discussing the price that says you couldn't eat when the mishk was traveling. The says you could eat one's going to it's going to meaning headed knows that you can't eat at the time of he learned it from who said three things in the names of and one of them was meaning it was all top line right that was all but it was all it was a memo only said could acknowledge that there's another Tana in Shast that argues with with Rabbi Schmal in Rabbi Schmal's world this is going to be true but it can't ask me from anybody say alternatively you could say not but rather means something else doesn't mean that there's no but rather means before the erected after they took the Mishk down but what's the punch line the is still standing and it's over that it's okay. Meaning the price of that says and that's talking about because there's a dinner the price of that says that you could eat could be talking even about means there's a there's no but there's a that's the point what's the whole is that could you eat when the iska here you have the the whole is there because they took down the crushim and the or some other part of would have been a that you shouldn't be able to eat the very nicely. Yeah. I would have thought if I would have thought that when the crush taken down that maybe it's considered so maybe there's a kamash that it's not is when you physically remove the outside of the clim but over here you're not physically removing anything outside of the what you did was you took down the that's not called why not maybe it should be the says and we learn even though it's traveling, it's still considered an exhale. So before we go right there if we have some time just one and that is that so we learned on the days onto the but um earlier and this morning we had this idea with the inas there's many many that describe the miktosh now rashi says that those that inescal that describe the basikto says says this was or referring to the sounds like Rashi wasn't sure Rash's a little bit unclear what those of says very very clearly says the first that was built by the over there talks exactly about how that was built and the third even though it's mentioned it's a little bit unclear but says the Rambam what is the referring to it's referring to the those and that is what's mentioned in so the talk about the That's talked to that's in the times of when they built the second base they built it like and it was that I mentioned in interesting. So the first BA miktosh is the basto that's described in the third miktosh the bikto of the that's what's described in what about was a little bit of both it had a little bit of bias and it had a little bit of bay there's a classic introduction that the gives to mid mid deals with the second basis midos are the dimensions of the second bas and the as why was it important for to transcribe exactly what the second B mikdash was like? I mean there's not really that much relevance for because it was a transient B mikdash. It stood for 420 years. But but why did it have to be written? That's what the addresses in histo and he says I'm going to tell you why. Because the second has in it a combination it has certain of and certain of so it's good to know because there are elements of that are going to be relevant to unbelievable. So being that there's elements of that are going to be relative to it's for that reason thus we have because it actually is something it actually is something that's going to it's something that's going to be he says how do I know that he quotes this then he says what's a little bit bias but not completely so he says he says is the bias of and really in order for the to be for we have to be on of being ready for for he says the second could have would have and should have been it could have been in fact the says that that and that would have been the end of the whole story it would have been the would have came but did and because they did a that's why they weren't but the point is is that really the could have been to It was bay was supposed to have been but because the other one it wasn't but being that it was supposed to be it had a little bit of bayish in it but being that at the end of the day it wasn't it couldn't be completely that way and what we ended up with was see right is like a it's a ram says has a little bit of a little bit of as if to say and then you have this like in between this WELL WHAT'S IN BECAUSE THE WHOLE IS THIS MAN OF that's what it is it's that was supposed to be at the end of the day it wasn't and it's for that reason you have this this little bit of this little bit of confusion but the point is that Rashi says that it's either or it's it's the way the Rama it's really both it's what the was for but it a little bit of ofishi and it's for that reason we have is going to be relevant because when we build it's going to be important to be aware of some of these details of something this will help us in the long run in was made out of and that's a because that's in contrast to the mob was made out of ads There were wooden boards around it and it was coated with with copper. The misbeak of Sheiloy was not that way. Even though Sheiloy didn't house the Bikdash, but rather it housed the Mishkon, but the Msbeak that was in Mishkon Shiloy despite the fact it was it was a different it wasn't. In fact, it was made out of stone. How do we know that? It says three times in the that is supposed to be made out of a bottom. But we know the wasn't made out of a bottom. It was made out of with eight referring to three other one is the second one is and the third one is which was also made out of the fire that came down from the describes that after the were brought on the fire comes down from that that fire remained on the until the times of and the dayto on that fire came down again and destroyed and it was at that time that the went away. What's the Isra that was used in was not the fire should have gone away earlier. Meaning the assumption is that why would the fire have been on presumably because you're bringing carbon there. Meaning when the was in Sheilo and in G and in all those places that's what they were doing with it. But if you're going to tell me that the was so the was made out of and we know wasn't made out of was made out of and obviously they didn't use if they didn't use why was the fire still there. You're gonna have to say the raun holds like a different t which he holds like was made out of it was it was it was filled with stone now holds not like but the reason we saying is that he has a talent to support him at the very least that it wasn't so you have already arrived wasn't used in so can go a seems to suggest that was used in again said that even though was made out of the was made out of that would seem to suggest that the was used in it wasn't how can you tell me it wasn't it was we have a price that says that the came down remained until it sounds like that they must have used it throughout the those hundreds of years. That means in Shilo they were using it because otherwise the fire would have gone away. So clearly they used it meaning that Bryer seems to be ra can't go like can't argue with a bryer. Huna has a different bryo that's at odds with that bryo once he has a messia has a right to argue with a what's that another bryer that says that the was used in shilo was not so meaning it's not that not everybody holds that this fire that came down mime remained with the whole throughout the years so it's for that reason so fake rashi you're asking good the obvious question why do we have to to find a to the said that had raised a time of it says him three times. one is that price is my first but either way let's just see one last meaning really it could be that is right that was used in it was not it was the if it was a different why did the fire have to remain on when we say the fire was there it wasn't there with the ganskai it wasn't there 100% % means but at the same time it wasn't there with all its intent what does that mean says that when they used to do the on the of so wind and flames would come from the a that was on the of which was the and it would help the the hakra you're right that's not the mb that was being used the mb that was being use was the new misbeh but at the same time the fire from played a role in that's why he was there said it a little bit differently it was like a guest it used to it used to bounce around a little bit sometimes the fire would be on the and sometimes I guess for the purposes it would actually jump but the point is was around nobody's arguing that was around the question is was Was it used in or was it not used in Was it used in meaning the was used in was also or perhaps no it was the you'll ask me if wasn't used in so what does it mean that what do you need the fire for the ter is either holds like the t of the that holds that it's not true that fire went away before the tons of or the fire just facilitated Hit it.